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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: how to attack special bildings effectively?
Thread: how to attack special bildings effectively? This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT»
tigris
tigris


Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
posted November 20, 2004 10:35 AM
Edited By: tigris on 20 Nov 2004

how to attack effectively?

Getting money, resources and creatures in the beggining of the game is often the key in winning or losing. So it's critical to know your way around in the first couple of weeks.Attacking special dwellings may provide you with gold(cripts,dwarven tresureries, naga banks), resources(cyclops stockpile), both resources and money(medusa store, imp cache) or creatures(dragon hives, griffin conservatories).Knowing how to hit those dwellingswithout losing much of your army can give you eventually the upper hand against your opponent.
1.Cripts
Usually, you'll be hitting your first cript(s) day 1 with only lvl 1-2 units(maybe several lvl. 3 or few lvl 4 if you have bron).So you'll be expecting some causalities, especially if you run into a full cript(10 vamps).First of all it's verry important to know in what order will your units be possitioned in battle.When entering a cript the order is:top row from left to right the first 2 units of your army, middle row the next 3 units, and the bottom row last two units.
E.G.Your army is main group archers/single pikeman/main pikemen/single imp/single gog/ main imps/main gogs the order will be: top row archers and single pikeman
              middlemain pikeman,single imp,single gog
              bottom main imp and main gog.
In this formation the outcome may be desastrous,the vamps make their move towards the archers, the wights go for the pikmen and that's it.
So the way to do it is to position your main archer group in the middle (2nd spot in the middle row). This way they can't be reached first turn.Mass slow or haste is out of the question day 1, so vamps(speed 6) and wights(speed 5) will have the initiative against your archers.Skels and walking deads are not a threat the first two three rounds. That should be enough to get rid of those pesky vamps and some of the wights also.I think you should enter cript with this formation:
top row:    fodder1/main gogs
middle row: fodder2/main archers/main imps
bottom row: fodder3/main pikemen
So the vamps will attack fodder2,wights attack fodder3, fodder1 takes retal from the vamps, retreat with imps shoot vamps with gogs and kill with pikemen,attack wight with archers(kill about 4-5).remining vamps take the retal from archers, than wights make their move too. This way you can lose max 7 archers  and some fodder if starting with a weak army(this is worse case scenario).In the best case you'll lose only some fodder.
P.S. Promiss i'll come back with more tactics for all others special bulidings, as soon as i'll run some tests.Hope it's not totally useless..
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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted November 20, 2004 10:46 AM

there exist threads about this already

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tigris
tigris


Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
posted November 22, 2004 09:08 AM

i've serarched the library and ToH and haven't found one to deal this particular subject.For change i run some tests on my own.
So, cripts part 2:
i took valeska lvl 1 stats:2/2/1/1 with a typical day 1 army:23 goblins, 34 archers, 30 pikemen.
test 1:
valeska vs 5 wights,20 walking deads and 25 skelletons.I've teted the following formations:
fodder/goblins/fodder/archers/pikemen/fodder/fodder and
fodder/goblins/fodder/archers/fodder/fodder/pikemen.
The results were similar:0 causualities
The tactic was simple:kill wights with archers, 1 stack of skells with pikemen, then run and kill the rest with  archers.This led me to the conclusion that i won't lose any army when fighting a smaller cript without the wights so i didn't test this aswell.
test 2:
valeska vs 5 vampires,10 wights,20walking dead and 20 skelletons. Same formations as above.
Round 1:cast bless on archers, they kill 4 vamps;The remaining vamp kills the fodder from the left, middle row.10 wights kill the fodder in left bottom row.Defend with all units except pikemen.Move them next to the archers.
Round 2:archers kill 7 wights.3 wights kill 1 pikeman and block archers.Retaliation from pikemen kill 2 wights.retreat  and kill remaining wight with goblins.
Round 3:archers kill skelletons, then run, retreat and kill walking dead the next rounds.
Casualities: 2 goblins(fodders)and 1 pikeman.
test 3:
valeska vs 10 vampires, 15 wights,20 walking dead and 20 skelletons.Same formations.
Round 1:cast bless on archers, they kill 4 vamps;The remaining 6 vamps kill the fodder from the left, middle
row.15 wights kill the fodder in left bottom row.The fodder from left top row takes retaliation from vamps.Attack with goblins then advance pikemen.
Round 2:Archers shoot 15 wights killing 7.vampires kill 3 archers, 2 vamps die from retaliation.Remaining wights kill 4 archers.Magic arrow kills vampires.Fodder from top left takes retaliation from wights, attack with pikemen and goblins.
Rounds 3,4:retreat and kill remaining units with archers, pikemen and goblins.
Causualities:7 archers and 4 goblins.

2.Dwarven tresureries
Here you are about to face between 50 and 150 dwarves+batlle dwarves.So as far as i tested it, If entering day 1 the results are (nearly) desastrous.
It's nice to use the tactic of stepping in the building and when the monsters ask you if you want to attack click no,then rightclick on the building to see the guardians.Sometimes it can be very helpfull.
tip of the day
E.G. Attacking a topia late week 2 if you run into a full one you might be forced to retreat, so you'll be curious to know what forces are you going to face.Then it's good to be a detective. There are 5 kinds of topias:1/2/5/6;2/3/7/8;3/4/7/8/;4/5/7/8/and5/6/7/8
So if you see the msg:'Dragon utopia guarded by pack of creatures:few black , few gold, several green and several red drags' it means that it's the smallest because all the rest have lots of guardians(more than 19); if guarded by lots of creatures:few black , few gold, several green and several red drags it's eithera 2/3/7/8/ or a 3/4/7/8 topia.If having few/ several/ several/several it's a 4/5/7/8/ and if several/several/severalseveral are the guards then it's a full tope.
Back to attacking tresureries.I've tested all kind of sizes and the result was the same: It cannot be done with a day one army(the army i've tested the cripts).Even with mass slow it's unlikely you'll get out alive.The way to do it is to wait until you have an angel(day 5) or other lvl 5,6,7 creatures you might have in the fires week to attack the  dwarves.
hope it's not completely useless...

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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted November 22, 2004 11:06 AM

Look for Chubby's posts (that's not his complete name), he posted some guides with screenshots (if you want to take it seriously you should be using screenshots too). I also recall having seen various helping posts in this subject in Frank's thread (toh forum) and in some other topics too. You'll love them - try to find them. Too bad this forum is not organized well at all.

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LordLazy
LordLazy


Promising
Famous Hero
Wood cleaner
posted November 22, 2004 11:26 AM
Edited By: LordLazy on 22 Nov 2004


Chubby's tactic:
Castlecrypt

Frank's tactic:
Rampartcrypt

Chubby's tactic:
Towercrypt



I think they are copyrighted you are not allowed to use'em
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Tagged officially as Noobegian two years ago. This typographic material is strictly copyrighted. All situations containing abuse will be brought to court.

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tigris
tigris


Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
posted November 22, 2004 12:50 PM

thanks, man!I must admit that's professional work right there!Compared to that my posts are garbage.Still i'll  continue with tactics for attacking cripts with other castles(Only 3 castle tactics there) and i'll try to add pics also, although i'm a computer illiterate
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Conan
Conan


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted November 22, 2004 07:42 PM

Quote:
Look for Chubby's posts (that's not his complete name), he posted some guides with screenshots (if you want to take it seriously you should be using screenshots too). I also recall having seen various helping posts in this subject in Frank's thread (toh forum) and in some other topics too. You'll love them - try to find them. Too bad this forum is not organized well at all.


Do you mean this forum as in "the library"? or HC?

If it's the library, you could start a new thread about how to make it better and I'd be happy to try and make it more organized.
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Your life as it has been is over. From this time forward, you will service.... us. - Star Trek TNG

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tigris
tigris


Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
posted November 30, 2004 02:13 PM
Edited By: tigris on 30 Nov 2004

As promissed i submit here tactics for attacking cripts with day 1-3 army.
1.STRONGHOLD
Starting army usual for day 1 enters the cript in this formation:

I have put labels on the fodders to make it easyer to explain.
Round 1:
Wait with rocs and wolf riders, vampires kill fodder1 and wights fodder4.Take retaliation from vampires with fodder2,then attack them with goblins, wolf riders and rocs who kill 8 vampires 7 at least.End round

Round 2:
Rocs kill vampires(if only 2 left;if three then wolf riders will kill the last one) defend riders(if rocs killed vamps already).Fodder 4 takes retaliation from wights,main goblins attack wights and kill 7-9 tops.1-3 wights attack main goblins killing one(if 2 or 3)or none(if only one is left in the stack).

Round 3:
From now on it's easy!Just kill the skelletons and stay out of range of the walking deads this round.

Round 4: wait with all unitsand then attack walking deads with rocs to take the retaliation and avoid loosing units with lower hp, then follow up with riders and goblins.If you don't manage to kill them in one round just continue the next one(you'll still move first cos you waited the previous round).

Causualities: 4 fodders+(1-2goblins)if unlucky
I'll be back with tactics for other castles.
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Lord_Woock
Lord_Woock


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
posted December 01, 2004 06:25 PM

Why all the white space?
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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!

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greek_god_su...
greek_god_superman


Famous Hero
Bringer Of Light
posted December 01, 2004 07:10 PM
Edited By: greek_god_superman on 1 Dec 2004

Quote:
Why all the white space?

Must be snow. Isnīt there winter now in Romania?
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After all, marriage and murder are not too different - one ends your life and the other is a crime

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tigris
tigris


Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
posted December 02, 2004 08:42 AM

yes it is i'm afraid it's not the reason why there are so many blank spaces in between the pics, i promiss I'll "melt the snow" in my next ones.I don't understand wky the link isn't always working though...
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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted December 07, 2004 03:28 PM

Keep the good work going Tigris.
Still some towns missing..
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.

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tigris
tigris


Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
posted December 07, 2004 03:59 PM

i already have fortress and conflux almost ready(still have to make the pics, but i know the basic tactics), i don't think necro is of interess cos people don't use it anyway, still i need some help with inferno as i can't seem to figure out a good tactic for the first week.(even with 2 efreets i seem to lose to much army)
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Nebuka
Nebuka


Promising
Supreme Hero
Save me Jebus!
posted December 07, 2004 04:45 PM
Edited By: Nebuka on 7 Dec 2004

Yes, nice work with Stronghold.

With Gretchin, wolves might not be needed. :=)
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tigris
tigris


Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
posted December 08, 2004 09:42 AM

continue as promissed

conflux
This seemed to me like an easy castle to take a full cript day one, but it gave me a little headache as the first round attacks from vamps and wights seemed to follow no pattern.The first formation i've tested was fodd(1pixie)/main sprites/fodd(1pixie)/fodd(1pixie)/fodd(1pixie)/fodd(1pixie)/several air elementals.I waited with all my units the first round but the vamps&wights couldn't make out their mind and kept attacking different fodders.That's why i've decided to go for this formation:fodd(1pixie)/sprites/ fodd(2pixie) /fodd(1pixie)/fodd(1pixie)/fodd(1pixie)/air elementals.This way the vamps always attack the fodder with 2 pixies(most hp)and the wights go for the only fodder they can reach,so they are reduced to a standard move.
There are two way of doing this:
-the risky way:no spells(requires 80+sprites, but can be done day 1 as soon as you upgrade pixies)The danger about this will be shown later.
the safe wayay 2 only 55+sprites but having bless.If you have sp=3 you only need to cast bless one time in the beggining round 2 and the battle it's won.
I've choose the risky way to illustrate this, but for the other method use the same formation.Don't forget to let some pixies unupgraded so that you can take the retaliation(cos sprites have no enemy retal)
Ok this will be your entering formation:

Round 1:wait with all your units.Vamps kill the 2 pixies, wights go for the fodder in the low left(fodd6){haven't put labels on the fodders cos it's not that important wich one goes where,but to have one in that exact position}.The skelletons and WD make their moves.Move 1 fodder to lure the vamps in the top left corner and with the other head for bottom right(as shown in the next pic).The remaining fodder takes retal from vamps, then follow up with air and sprites.This should kill about 5 vamps(maybe 6).End round.

This is how your troops should be positioned at the begining of round 2.Now run away from vamps with sprites and kill skelletons.Also run with air elementals towards top right.Defend with the fodder in top left corner(in reach for vamps),then move the remaining fodder to the right just out of reach of wights&WD.Vampires attack the fodder in top left corner, wights&WD move towards right/up but can't reach nothing.End round.

Begining round 3:Now comes the risky part.You must attack/kill all the wights with sprites and air elementals in one single attack.If one wight survives she'll kill up to 3 sprites.The vamps can't reach u,so this is your chance.I've moved the remaining fodder towards the vamps(as you'll see in the next pic), but then i've realized it was for nothing, so this fodder can actually survive the battle.End round.

This is beggining round 4.Just attack/kill the remaining 5 vamps.The WD can't reach u.End round.

Now it's easy, just do hit and run's with the WD's for another round(s) and it's all over.
Bellow it's the outcome:

Keep in mind that i've lost one fodder for nothing so only 5 pixises need sacrifice for this.Do not forget: leave a couple of pixies unupgraded before leaving your castle, or take an additional slot for fodder(you'll need a high speed unit to do the job right, but pixies are the most effective).
P.S.I'll post the tactic for fortress tomorrow or later today if i have the time.If someone could help a little with an inferno tactic to take a full crypt in the first days(imho it's impossible to do it day one with this castle), as i seem to loose too much army even with 2 efreet on.I already said i won't do necro tactics about this, the only one left is dungeon and this will come soon.

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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted December 08, 2004 11:16 AM

This conflux strategy is weak. You do not need more than 60 sprites (normal start), no spells at all, not even air elementals (they come in handy if you have 9+ though). None of them is needed. There is no risk at all. You simply do not use your fodders well.

I really wonder if it can be done without losses, but with losses it's simple. Just use 1 fodder/2 rounds to keep vampires in their corner. Period.

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Xarfax111
Xarfax111


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
posted December 08, 2004 11:50 AM
Edited By: Xarfax111 on 8 Dec 2004

Quote:
As promissed i submit here tactics for attacking cripts with day 1-3 army.



Sorry tigris,

but this is definately not a usual "day 1-3 army".
A Barbarian gets 15 to 25 goblins with him, which is 20 in average.

Youve more likely only 2 Barbarians, so u get about 40 goblins in Starting army and 14 in your town, which is 54 in total.

Even if uve an external goblin dwelling (+14) or a third Barbarian (+20, about 10% probility), you are still away from those "everytime-86-goblins-on-day-one".

....besides, that good old Hack flips from man into a women and back (see your pictures).


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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted December 08, 2004 12:52 PM

Tigris, please fix your images and correct the strategies.

As for fortress.

A good try is:

Drakon
....1 pikeman - 13 pikemen
1 gnoll - 55 gnolls - 1 pikeman
....1 serpent fly - 1 pikeman

You are going to lose a serpent fly, a few gnolls and a few pikemen.

1st round: Serpent fly attack vampires. Vampires attack pikeman at slot1. Main stack of gnolls attack vampires (100-150 damage). Single gnoll moves to the corner next to wights. Single pikemen move, main stack of pikemen attacks vampires (10-35 damage).

2nd round: Since your serpent fly is now dead(!), your gnoll gets a strike on the vampires, use it. If very unlucky, two vampires survive, but normally that's not gonna happen. The rest of the fight is easy.

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LordLazy
LordLazy


Promising
Famous Hero
Wood cleaner
posted December 08, 2004 08:02 PM

Tigris: please ignore them foobums calling emselves vets above here, since as you have stated another place, are rude.

You are the first new player in here in a long time actually trying to make an effort. When I first saw your thread here I got surprised, because I had'nt expected you to put down such effort into this. And even though the strategies arent accurate in all ways, I still think this thread is one of the ones raising the quality of this forum.

It looks like you have put alot of effort and time into this one and deserves more than rude people spitting at yhour work. You never posted these tactics to be correct, or the best, only that it were a tactic, and if you see it that way, in those cases, these tactics is quite good tactics, only it could be done with less units.

I will not post any additional tactics just yet, but working on some for later inputs.

I have one last sentence for ya Tigris:
Dont let the fool scare you away, you have posted many quite good posts, and is one of the members improving this forum, instead of just spamming it down

The library have become alive again, after the recent new posters, this have improved my interests for this forum, which imo were really uninteresting and geeky a few months ago.

Keep up the good work

Regards
LordLazy
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Tagged officially as Noobegian two years ago. This typographic material is strictly copyrighted. All situations containing abuse will be brought to court.

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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted December 08, 2004 11:43 PM
Edited By: csarmi on 8 Dec 2004

Quote:
Tigris: please ignore them foobums calling emselves vets above here, since as you have stated another place, are rude.


I do not think Xarfax is being rude here (he is the vet guy ).

Actually no one is being rude here.
Maybe except you boys unable to stand any critic.

Oh, and keep up the good work. Be glad when someone reflects on your strats too - you can make it better.

I really hope you could make a really good thread of this.

I don't have the patience to make screensaves and such, but I can tell if something is bad or unrealistic. That's all I can help.

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