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itsjustme
Promising
Known Hero
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posted October 09, 2010 08:08 PM |
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Quote:
They are not shooters.
Agree, because we have 2 shooters in low levels, butQuote:
a) It's a nonsense to H3 to has 2-hex shooter.
you are forgot about Medusas and WoG-Dracolich.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 09, 2010 08:43 PM |
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hellburn
Famous Hero
The efreet
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posted October 09, 2010 10:49 PM |
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...and balista  ?
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blueskirt
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 11, 2010 12:08 AM |
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I remember that the tank was the unit that made me completely disconnect from the original Forge. Not because it was sci-fi-ish, I grew up with Magic The Gathering and other settings where sci-fi and fantasy walks hand in hand, I disconnected because the original tank design was absurd on so many level, if you're gonna make a tank, why give it handguns instead of a cannon or some heavy weaponry, and why put an unprotected torso in the front so it can be easily slain?
If there was one example Forge should have followed IMO it was Magic The Gathering's Phyrexia: an artificial plane full of cyborgs and robots, biological and/or mechanical constructs designed specifically for killing, and what they didn't kill, they tortured, enslaved and surgically transformed into grotesque, half biological, half mechanical creatures to increase their ranks... That's the path I would have chosen if I had to design Forge, a huge factory cranking killing machines and cyborg abominations instead of laser guns and rocket launchers.
Regarding those tank sketches, they are cool, I like the mechanical arms, the interlocking plates and the general steampunk look of the bottom one with its rusted look and multiple exhaust pipes but I also like the body armor of the top one (like I said, if you're gonna build a tank, why leave a big fleshy weak spot in the middle of it) and I especially like her enslaved look.
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Ivan
Known Hero
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posted October 14, 2010 10:41 PM |
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Edited by Ivan at 23:13, 15 Oct 2010.
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What I mind about the first model is that they're not supposed to be one-eyed. The second four-armed model is thus better, but it's tracks still look somewhat antique (like those of WWI tanks). Finally, the engines in the back are way over the top: remember, the Forges branch of Sci-Fi is cyberpunk, not steampunk.
And Don, about them being "just some random gals"... you must be joking!
Just look at the original concept: they have FOUR arms, not two. "Some random gals" would have only two arms. Anyway, could you name a Might & Magic humanoid specie other than Naga that have four arms?
However, I do like the idea of replacing guns with drills, as they were originally planned to be walkers, and having non-shooters armed with guns was simply nonsensical.
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ChaosHydra
Famous Hero
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posted October 15, 2010 01:02 AM |
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Quote:
...Anyway, could you name a Might & Magic humanoid specie other than Naga that have four arms?...
Naga Queen 
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don_komandorr
Known Hero
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posted October 15, 2010 02:26 PM |
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Naga queen has 6 arms
And Original forge is havely based on DIESELpunk. There are engines everywhere on concepts - Tank has one, Stinger has, Cyber dead has...
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Ivan
Known Hero
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posted October 15, 2010 02:48 PM |
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Given the architecture, the units and their equipment and the whole setting, I'd say it's cyberpunk, not dieselpunk. Dieselpunk overally looks like Sci-Fi WWII, whereas the Forge looks like a dark vision of the 22nd century and fits in the stereotypical high tech & low life description. By the way, practically every other unit has cybernetics, the Naga tank included.
So, even with the Naga Queen joke that you two posted, we at least agree on the fact that there are no multi-armed humanoids in the M&M universe other than the Naga and their upgrade. Also, forgive my mistake, the Naga and Naga Queens alike have six arms, but this still leaves them as the only real candidate for the cybernetic multi-armed tank unit.
The original Tank did have a visible engine, but it was smaller and much more compact (pretty much like the one in your first picture, but without the rear exhaust vent). The Naga is better in the second picture, but the engine in it is HUGE and has too many exhaust vents.
As only the non-upgraded version will be bare-chested, I get the feeling that most people won't bother to upgrade them
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 15, 2010 03:05 PM |
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Quote:
So, even with the Naga Queen joke that you two posted, we at least agree on the fact that there are no multi-armed humanoids in the M&M universe other than the Naga and their upgrade.
and rakshasas?
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Ivan
Known Hero
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posted October 15, 2010 11:13 PM |
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The Rakshasa are HoM&M V creatures, and that game is set in a completely different Universe. We were exclusively referring to the Might & Magic Universe in which HoM&M I through IV take place.
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted October 15, 2010 11:43 PM |
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Edited by Cepheus at 23:44, 15 Oct 2010.
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Quote:
We were exclusively referring to the Might & Magic Universe in which HoM&M I through IV take place.
No, there are Rakshasas in that universe as well.
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
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Ivan
Known Hero
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posted October 16, 2010 10:41 AM |
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Okay... to be more specific, I was referring to human-looking humanoids. That game's poster depicts some reptile looking half-human half-eagles. I'm not sure they would make a good Forge Tank unit 
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted October 16, 2010 12:36 PM |
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Rakshasas are in that game. I don't have a picture.
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
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Ivan
Known Hero
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posted October 16, 2010 02:13 PM |
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Yeah, but even if they look exactly like they do in Heroes V, they still wouldn't make a good Tank unit. I simply wanted to convince Don that no M&M creatures other than the Naga could pass as lovely multi-armed females, as a response to his original comment they were just some random gals, and not Naga.
The Tank units are no more random gals than the Grunts/Foot Soldiers are random humans with green warpaint.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 16, 2010 11:45 PM |
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rakshasas look more tank-ish than nagas
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kesnar
Famous Hero
from Kesnaria
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posted October 17, 2010 12:44 PM |
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About the cyberpunk-diselpunk-steampunk theme...
It can't be cyberpunks it doesn't have a cyberworld...
BUT really in the 90s steampunk was trying to establish itself with little success...Not even today is it totally establidhes
And let's not talk about dieselpunk...it's really from the 00s
So IMO Forge closes a little to the shadowrun theme and thus can be said cyberpunk...but really does it matter?!?
Now to the point:
I like better the second one but I agree that the engine on the back is too much...
Oh and about the "why to have it unprotected"...We can say that it has a protective field generator(?)
"The slow blade penetrates the shield"
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Ivan
Known Hero
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posted October 17, 2010 02:53 PM |
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Edited by Ivan at 14:56, 17 Oct 2010.
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Don't forget that Bladerunner also has no cyberspace, and it's still considered to be the greatest film of the genre.
The Forge has a cyberpunk setting because it reflects a vision of a highly advanced, yet highly dystopic future: cutting-edge technology is everywhere, but it can be argued that its influence is almost entirely negative. Kastore's armies, unlike all others, have no tradition, no philosophy, no religion or culture- they are simply legions of devastating cyborgs and semi-machines out to conquer everything.
Their alingment is evil, as they're antagonists, yet I think describing them as neutral would be more realistic: their goal isn't to burn the world, or kill everything on it, but simply to conquer it. There might even be a positive aspect to their conquest: a Forge-controlled world could never be overrun by the Kreegans (or destroyed by Gelu and Kilgore, as they'd be blasted long before they get a chance for a sword duel). Yet even if the Forge was a protagonist faction, those leading it would still be anti-heros.
Although the Forge doesn't have all elements of cyberpunk, it's safe to say it has quite enough to be placed in that genre of Sci-Fi. As for the neutral vs evil alingment story, I wanted to point out that not everything has to be black & white, even with the antagonist faction.
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Moks_Pokemon
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 28, 2010 11:22 AM |
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Well then isn't the Necropolis also a neutral faction? Both factions (forge and nercopolis) are made by necromants!
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Ivan
Known Hero
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posted October 28, 2010 03:12 PM |
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No, the Forge is led by Kastore who is a Sorcerer (although that class doesn't exist in HoM&M III). Before getting the Oscillation Overthruster and reactivating the Forge, Kastore and his allies exiled Archibald Ironfist and his Necromancers from Deyja (they retreated to Clanker's lab). The Heavenly Forge as a faction was technically planned to be evil, but I was just pointing out some potentially positive aspects of its influence (like the ability to crush Kreegan invasions, or to stop the Gelu VS Kilgore duel that destroyed the world of COLONY in which Heroes I through III take place).
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Moks_Pokemon
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 28, 2010 03:48 PM |
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oh, i thought that the necromants seeked this forge, and the other guys seeked to open a portal to the Ancients (or something)
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This thread is pages long: 
