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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: United States President: 2008
Thread: United States President: 2008 This thread is 90 pages long: 1 10 20 30 40 50 ... 59 60 61 62 63 ... 70 80 90 · «PREV / NEXT»
mvassilev
mvassilev


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Undefeatable Hero
posted October 09, 2008 02:29 PM

Moonlith:
I agree. I'm just telling you why he got filtered out. I'm not saying that he should've gotten filtered out. But Paul's supporters were often louder than he was - so, in a lot of people's minds, Ron Paul became synonymous with "9/11 truther", or something in a similar vein.
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Moonlith
Moonlith


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Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
posted October 10, 2008 12:07 PM

I would say that is clear proof the system is entirely snowed up and you need to DO something about it. This only leads to further corruption where your next puppet is chosen for you. I don't call this democracy.
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mvassilev
mvassilev


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posted October 10, 2008 11:04 PM

The system is quite capable of filtering out crazies as well - just look at Tom Tancredo. If you want a higher chance of Paul winning, you'd also have to accept a higher chance of Tancredo winning. Though sometimes excellent candidates are filtered out, crazies like Kucininch, Tancredo, and Hunter are filtered out as well. You have to take the good with the bad. Is this the best possible system? No. But it could be worse.
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Moonlith
Moonlith


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If all else fails, use Fiyah!
posted October 11, 2008 12:39 AM

I am tempted to say I have faith in a population not to elect a grade-A retard for president.

But since we are talking about America, I may need to readjust my expectations. You're right, your current system may be better.
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Elodin
Elodin


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posted October 11, 2008 04:10 AM

Moonlith:

Perhaps instead of insulting American people you could stick to presentation of argument why certain candidate is better choice for president and focus on issues concerning you?

You perhaps are also not aware of all issues Amerian public has to consider and so you might not be as fully qualified to define the "proper" choice as you think. And recall that different cultures think different things to be more or lesser in importance so your ideas of the best candidate may not fit the best for Americans.

Whatever choice America makes for president will be no disaster I think so no need to be upset whoever wins.

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friendofgunnar
friendofgunnar


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able to speed up time
posted October 11, 2008 04:14 AM

I hate to just pop by and drop a linkie, but this was too funny.

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Moonlith
Moonlith


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If all else fails, use Fiyah!
posted October 11, 2008 06:18 PM
Edited by Moonlith at 18:20, 11 Oct 2008.

First of all let me appologize for the crude and harsh tone I have been using the past week. I blame it partially on my character and partially on frustration that is the direct result of viewing this pathetic theatre that is called "presidential debates" and seeing everyone treating it as if it is okay.

What I just can't grasp is that no one has yet risen up firmly and said "Stop. Enough is enough. This is an insult to our intelligence".

I may not know what the average American is concerned with, but I do know from a philosophical point of view what everyone on this world, at this point in history SHOULD be concerned with. And I also know for certain that this supposed "War on Mythorrism" is not one of them. And it pains me to see everyone thinks it IS.


Moreover, what I specificly liked about Zeitgeist: Addendum (which continues on a far higher philosophical level which I recommend everyone to watch), is that it correctly points out politics do NOT solve ANY problems WHATSOEVER. At the most, they bypass problems by making laws. It is in fact technology that has always and will always solve any and all problems. It is primairily for this reason that it is irrelevant to begin with which puppet you choose.


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mvassilev
mvassilev


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posted October 12, 2008 05:19 AM

Things just keep getting worse and worse:
Obama the Arab?
A terrorist?
A mission from God?
Pathetic. Simply pathetic. And to think that this is an actually serious campaign! And yet they rile up such hatred.

And some guy had a stuffed monkey with an Obama pin on it. Racism at its finest.
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OmegaDestroyer
OmegaDestroyer

Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
posted October 12, 2008 06:05 AM
Edited by OmegaDestroyer at 06:22, 12 Oct 2008.

Let me be the first to welcome you to politics, Mvass.
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Elodin
Elodin


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posted October 12, 2008 07:07 AM

According to your link McCain did not rile up anybody to call Obama Arab and he defended Obama when supporter made unproven statement. McCain also did not call Obama terrorist. He say Obama associated with domestic terrorist, which is fact (William Ayers.)

Palin is Christian so no doubt it would be proper for her to say America fighting terrorist is  "mission from God." You maybe are atheist and hostile to religion so her statement offend you. But your view on God is not necessarily correct and you must allow others to have free speech and their opinion on God too.

Now, one could find many thing Obama and his pastor/other associates say that would offend many.

Why Obama say "White folks greed runs a world in need" in his memoirs? Is not that offensive racist statement?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdLX3aRNaNk

Why he use phrase "typical white person?" Is not that racist? If McCain used phrase "typical black person" would that be racist?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxmEz8H33ZI

Why he stay in church for 20 year when his pastor preach hatred of white people, Jews, and his own country? If he disagreed with these postitions he would surely have left and attended another church.

It appear Obama have some controversial viewpoints that could be examined.


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OmegaDestroyer
OmegaDestroyer

Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
posted October 12, 2008 08:26 AM
Edited by OmegaDestroyer at 08:28, 12 Oct 2008.

Doesn't matter.  This election is long over.  Unpopular republican president + poor economy = win for the democrats.
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TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


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posted October 12, 2008 09:58 AM
Edited by TitaniumAlloy at 09:59, 12 Oct 2008.

@Elodin
Quote:
According to your link McCain did not rile up anybody to call Obama Arab and he defended Obama when supporter made unproven statement. McCain also did not call Obama terrorist. He say Obama associated with domestic terrorist, which is fact (William Ayers.)

His association with Ayers isn't even worth mentioning. They weren't friends, hardly even acquaintances.
Certainly not an associate, and he has never suggested any support for or agreement with Ayers' acts of terror.


Quote:

Palin is Christian so no doubt it would be proper for her to say America fighting terrorist is  "mission from God." You maybe are atheist and hostile to religion so her statement offend you. But your view on God is not necessarily correct and you must allow others to have free speech and their opinion on God too.

However there is supposed to be a separation of Church and state also.
Suicide bombers believe killing innocents is a mission from God. If governments took to heart such 'missions' the world would be even more screwed up than it already is.


Quote:

Why Obama say "White folks greed runs a world in need" in his memoirs? Is not that offensive racist statement?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdLX3aRNaNk

lol well they kinda do... just look at the credit crunch
that is a bit weird though


Quote:
Why he use phrase "typical white person?" Is not that racist? If McCain used phrase "typical black person" would that be racist?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxmEz8H33ZI

Not really.
My grandmother is a typical white person too.
My grandmother likes lawn bowls.
Doesn't mean that I'm saying that all white people like white people.



Quote:
Why he stay in church for 20 year when his pastor preach hatred of white people, Jews, and his own country? If he disagreed with these postitions he would surely have left and attended another church.

It appear Obama have some controversial viewpoints that could be examined.

Source?
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Mytical
Mytical


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Chaos seeking Harmony
posted October 12, 2008 10:20 AM

Personally I think everybody should do a write in vote for Arnold 'the terminator' (don't expect me to spell his last name).  So what if he was was born somewhere besides America?  However, to address several things brought up through an American perspective (note : it may not be the RIGHT perspective).

Why doesn't Americans rise up you ask?  Well 30-40 years ago..maybe.  If we did, and the government decided to just say heck with it and fight back?  Would be the shortest 'uprising' ever.  Shotguns don't do much against tanks and bombers.  Remember America has one heck of a military, should they decide to use it.

There is the herd mentality.  America had it good for a REALLY long time, they got complacent.  The media and the government pretty much started to pull the wool over everybody's eyes.  They believed what they were told, because everything was good.  Recently they may have recieved a wake up call, but chances are they are so comfy they might not answer it.

If we did, then what?  Think the new government would be better?  For awhile..maybe.  Then greed and corruption would again rear it's ugly head.  Not to mention would open America up for invasion while we were fighting each other.

Apathy.  Way too many people have become apathetic, and that means even though they realize there is a problem they just don't care enough to do anything about it.

Anyhow..this thread is about the president and who should be next in line right?   Frankly neither is too appealing.  I am starting to shift slightly to McCain, but I am loathe to have a 'Bush take 3'.  Honestly I wish Obama would have chosen a much better running mate.  Even Hillary.  At least then I would have a bit of faith that somebody knew what they were doing.  Not so sure about his current running mate.
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Elodin
Elodin


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posted October 12, 2008 11:26 AM

@TitaniumAlloy

Quote:
His association with Ayers isn't even worth mentioning. They weren't friends, hardly even acquaintances.
Certainly not an associate, and he has never suggested any support for or agreement with Ayers' acts of terror.


Unfortunate that Obama actually have long term and deep relationship with Ayers. He worked closely on 2 boards with Ayers. Ayers also hold fund raiser in his living room that kick off Obama's political carreer.

Never at any time until recently when his relationship became known did Obama ever condemn Ayer's actions and even then he did not immediately condemn actions of Ayers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBjJjFoufo4

Quote:
However there is supposed to be a separation of Church and state also.
Suicide bombers believe killing innocents is a mission from God. If governments took to heart such 'missions' the world would be even more screwed up than it already is.


Palin is not associated with terrorist, Obama is. Separation of church and state does not mean candidate cannot believe in God.

Furthur, if you condemn Palin for statement, you must also condemn Obama. He have made many statement about God in his speeches.

http://www.christianpost.com/article/20071009/obama-breaks-god-talk-tradition.htm

Obama said “Pray that I can be an instrument of God.” Obama says faith is “what propels me to do what I do and when I am down it’s what lifts me up.” Also said God “is with us and He wants us to do the right thing.” When people work together, there is “nothing that can stop us because that’s God’s intention".


Quote:
Not really.


So you really would not think it racist if John McCain said "Typical black person?" It he say such a thing everyone would be calling him racist for certain.

Quote:
Source?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwQWuQVE6sw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Prhnc2fxAzg&feature=related





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TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


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Professional
posted October 12, 2008 12:44 PM

Quote:
Unfortunate that Obama actually have long term and deep relationship with Ayers. He worked closely on 2 boards with Ayers. Ayers also hold fund raiser in his living room that kick off Obama's political carreer.

Never at any time until recently when his relationship became known did Obama ever condemn Ayer's actions and even then he did not immediately condemn actions of Ayers.


Why would he randomly condemn his actions?
Does he need to rattle off every terrorist attack in history and condemn them individually in order to be cleared?



Quote:
Palin is not associated with terrorist, Obama is. Separation of church and state does not mean candidate cannot believe in God.

Furthur, if you condemn Palin for statement, you must also condemn Obama. He have made many statement about God in his speeches.

Obama said “Pray that I can be an instrument of God.” Obama says faith is “what propels me to do what I do and when I am down it’s what lifts me up.” Also said God “is with us and He wants us to do the right thing.” When people work together, there is “nothing that can stop us because that’s God’s intention".


No this is nothing to do with personal belief.
But when candidates use religion as a cause for war, "god's mission", then it is starting a holy war, justifying military action against another nation.
Killing iraqis isn't really comparable to saying that we should "do the right thing" and "work together".




Quote:
So you really would not think it racist if John McCain said "Typical black person?" It he say such a thing everyone would be calling him racist for certain.

Depends on the context.
The word typical can be used to stereotype or it can be used just to mean "your average black/white person" which is not at all racist.
I have no problem with someone referring to their grandparent as "a typical black/white/asian/french/yiddish/martian person" or whatever.




Those videos, apart from being reminiscent of evangelical nonsense, aren't really proof of anything you just said.
In the first video he is shown saying that America has mistreated blacks (hardly an outlandish statement) and states that the magnitude of 911 as small in comparison to the atom bombings etc, which even Mytical can be quoted as saying in the 911 thread, hardly racist or anything.
The second video isn't even about his pastor and is just a bunch of quotes and pictures of flames lol
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mvassilev
mvassilev


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posted October 12, 2008 03:33 PM

McCain had a fundraiser in Gordon Liddy's house. And McCain said that he is proud of him. Does that mean that McCain is a Watergate "plumber"?
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Elodin
Elodin


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posted October 12, 2008 07:50 PM

Quote:
Why would he randomly condemn his actions?
Does he need to rattle off every terrorist attack in history and condemn them individually in order to be cleared?


He did not randomly condemn Ayers. Only after "heat" was on him did he condemn Ayers actions...after close association with him for many years.

This is same with his pastor Wright. Only after "heat" was on him did he condemn him after sitting in his church 20 years.

Quote:
No this is nothing to do with personal belief.
But when candidates use religion as a cause for war, "god's mission", then it is starting a holy war, justifying military action against another nation.
Killing iraqis isn't really comparable to saying that we should "do the right thing" and "work together".


You are misrepresenting what Palin said. She did not say America went to war for religious reason. No, not at all did she say religon was reason for war. What she seem to mean is war on terrorr is a "right" thing. Christian teach to defend others against evil action so in that since she mean the war on terror is "mission from God."

And please do not imply US is killing random Iraqi. US is fighting terrorist, not at all same as "killing Iraqis." In fact, recall that many Iraquis are "killing Iraquis" in fighting the terrorists so can have a more peaceful country not dominated by terrorists.

Obama prayed to be "instrument of God."

Please, if you condemn Palin for "mission from God" you must condemn Obamaa for "instrument of God" if you wish consistancy in your statemlents. It is quite easy to condemn someone who you have political disagreement with and yet favorite candidate do same thing without condemnation is it not?

Quote:
Depends on the context.


You can not at all with sincerety say that media would not call McCain racist if he say "typical black person." Saying "typical white person" should have evoked same response from media.

Quote:
Those videos, apart from being reminiscent of evangelical nonsense, aren't really proof of anything you just said


Saying "white America US of KKK A" is racist. Wright also accuse US government of manking AIDS to kill blacks.

What about saying "The Italians for the most part looked down their garlic noses at the Galileans," was that racist? How about “white supremacy is clearly in charge in America.”
http://mrssatan.blogspot.com/2008/03/rev-jeremiah-wright-calls-italians.html

Wright have made many racist statements. Obama sat in his church 20 years. Why stay if he didn't agree? Why have his children sit in such environment?

Also, link showed Louis Farrakhan, who is well known as racist against whites and Jews getting award from Obama's church. Why they give him award if they don't agree with his views?

@mvassilev

Liddy did Watergate break in, not terrorist bombings (some people also died in Ayers bombings.) Liddy also appologized for actions many years ago.

http://www.city-journal.org/2008/eon0430jm.html
Quote:
But listen to Ayers interviewed in the New York Times on September 11, 2001, of all days: “I don’t regret setting bombs. I feel we didn’t do enough.” Translation: “We meant to kill that judge and his family, not just damage the porch.” When asked by the Times if he would do it all again, Ayers responded: “I don’t want to discount the possibility.”

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mvassilev
mvassilev


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posted October 12, 2008 08:03 PM

Quote:
And please do not imply US is killing random Iraqi.
Haditha massacre?

Quote:
Liddy did Watergate break in, not terrorist bombings
Liddy harmed America more than Ayers ever did.
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Elodin
Elodin


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posted October 13, 2008 02:25 AM

Quote:
Quote:
And please do not imply US is killing random Iraqi.
Haditha massacre?



Firstly, that is only one incident in many years. US certainly is not just going around killing innocent Iraqis on purpose. If civilian casualty occur it is unfortunate but such happens in war.

Secondly it appear you are unfamiliar with incident. No random killing was happening. Marines ran over roadside bomb and one dies and others injured. They also come under fire and try determine to best of ability where fire come from and gain control of location and fight back. Perhaps you should review 60 minitues interview. Combat is quite chaotic situation especially when who enemy is is not readily obvious.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/03/15/60minutes/main2574973_page6.shtml#ccmm

Quote:
Liddy harmed America more than Ayers ever did.


I am sorry but I cannot equate Watergate breakin to steal political party plans with killing innocent people with bombs because Ayers opposed Vietnam war. Why kill innocent people because you oppose a war? Such human being is dispicable. Ayers would have been in prison if government had not done illegal wire tap. He brag about “Guilty as hell, free as a bird."

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mvassilev
mvassilev


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posted October 13, 2008 02:48 AM
Edited by mvassilev at 04:35, 16 Oct 2008.

Quote:
I am sorry but I cannot equate Watergate breakin to steal political party plans with killing innocent people with bombs because Ayers opposed Vietnam war. Why kill innocent people because you oppose a war? Such human being is dispicable. Ayers would have been in prison if government had not done illegal wire tap. He brag about “Guilty as hell, free as a bird."
Ayers is indeed despicable, but Liddy is even more despicable because of the consequences his actions had on American politics.

Edit: Joe the Plumber wins the last debate.
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