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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: United States President: 2008
Thread: United States President: 2008 [ This thread is 90 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 (63) 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 ]
The_Gootch
The_Gootch


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
posted October 20, 2008 04:24 PM

Amazing, as soon as Omega softens his hard line stance another comes to take up the banner of the far right.

Hey Elodin, when you're done trashing on teenagers, point your drivel in my direction.  I always love mouthpieces for the far right and FOX News to show their ugly faces here.  School will be in session.

What else?

Obama in a landslide.  His lead is so huge the Republicans won't be able to steal this election like they did in 2000 and 2004.  McCain will graciously disappear and Palin (hopefully) will have a Playboy spread by June of '09.

Peace, I'll get a hold of you soon.  Love affair ending?  Dry your eyes baby.  It's out of character.  

Btw kiddies, this is what happens when you become a victim of your own success.  It generates *grimace* expectations in other people, including unreasonable ones such as promptly returning phone calls and stuff.
____________
"The trouble with America is
that when the dollar only earns
6 percent over here, then it
gets restless and goes overseas
to get 100 percent. Then the
flag follows the dollar and the
sold... too long to display...

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OmegaDestroyer
OmegaDestroyer

Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
posted October 20, 2008 04:28 PM
Edited by OmegaDestroyer at 16:38, 20 Oct 2008.

Hard line stance?  On what exactly?  I said long ago Obama would be elected easily.  And before accusing me of being far right, do your homework, Gootch.  I'm pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, and don't believe any creationism or intelligent design should be taught in schools.  I really sound far right don't I?  Too liberal for the Republicans, too conservative for the Democrats...

Are people are still complaining about the elections in 2000 and 2004?  Florida screwed the Democrats over in 2000 by changing their recount procedures which are supposed to be locked in place before an election.  They weren't and that's what caused the problems.  Furthermore, in 2004 the Republicans didn't steal anything.  It was a weak Democratic candidate that cost them the election.  The one-point "I'm not Bush" plan wasn't good enough.

Amazing how this election has turned so many hostile.
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The_Gootch
The_Gootch


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
posted October 20, 2008 04:57 PM

Quote:
Hard line stance?  On what exactly?


Even though you retracted it eventually, you still quoted Phyllis Schlafly.  Also, your views on the prisoners at Guantanamo and the use of torture put you squarely in line with the neo-con buffoons who have done so much damage to our country.

Quote:
 I said long ago Obama would be elected easily.  And before accusing me of being far right, do your homework, Gootch.  I'm pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, and don't believe any creationism or intelligent design should be taught in schools.  I really sound far right don't I?  Too liberal for the Republicans, too conservative for the Democrats...


Too red for the liblabs, too blue for the evangelicals.  Kinda sucks doesn't it?


Quote:
Are people are still complaining about the elections in 2000 and 2004?  Florida screwed the Democrats over in 2000 by changing their recount procedures which are supposed to be locked in place before an election.  They weren't and that's what caused the problems.  Furthermore, in 2004 the Republicans didn't steal anything.  It was a weak Democratic candidate that cost them the election.  The one-point "I'm not Bush" plan wasn't good enough.


Republicans stole Ohio.  Didn't you get the memo?  As for Kerry being a weak candidate, I'd disagree.  He completely screwed up when he got swift boated.  Other than that, he seemed to run a pretty good candidacy.  I think he lost because he offered America nuance when the country still needed the certainty Bush offered.  

Quote:
Amazing how this election has turned so many hostile.


When Obama's elected Nov. 4th, I'm sure I'll be a lot nicer.  It's the way of the world I guess.  People get progressively nastier until their side is elected.  
____________
"The trouble with America is
that when the dollar only earns
6 percent over here, then it
gets restless and goes overseas
to get 100 percent. Then the
flag follows the dollar and the
sold... too long to display...

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 20, 2008 05:37 PM

Quote:
[
I do not know what Prime Minister claim but I know it is not US practice to attack citizens. And you claim you do this in just about every war which is another untrue statement.


I'm sure it started earlier, but a practise it became one fine day in August 1945, I think it was the 8th, and continued through the wars. Remember My Lai, for example?

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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted October 20, 2008 10:07 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
[
I do not know what Prime Minister claim but I know it is not US practice to attack citizens. And you claim you do this in just about every war which is another untrue statement.


I'm sure it started earlier, but a practise it became one fine day in August 1945, I think it was the 8th, and continued through the wars. Remember My Lai, for example?


You calim us practice is to attack civiliians in military confilict since 1945 then. So Prove it. There are many who love to bash US but cannot back it up with fact.

So prove to me that since 1945 US has on regular basis (weekly would be good since you say it is continual thing) deliberately targeted civilians in every military confilct.

And I suppose you refer to US bombing of Japan in 1945. Yes, US drpoed atomic bombs. Japan however was the one who started war. US acted to save US lives and to end war. Bombs saved US lives and ended war. Mission accomplished.



The_Gootch
Quote:
Hey Elodin, when you're done trashing on teenagers, point your drivel in my direction.  I always love mouthpieces for the far right and FOX News to show their ugly faces here.  School will be in session.


You have said nothing to respond to. Present your points and if I disagree I will refute. But if you only are going to insult and argue like child, please don't waste my time.

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TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
posted October 21, 2008 07:40 AM
Edited by TitaniumAlloy at 07:57, 21 Oct 2008.

Quote:
I do not know what Prime Minister claim but I know it is not US practice to attack citizens. And you claim you do this in just about every war which is another untrue statement.


What about the Vietnam War, and My Lai?
World War 2?
Civil War?
Korean War?
Iraq war?
Afghanistan war?

Star wars?



What do you mean it should be weekly lol. Are you saying that if it happened every second week it would be fine


I'm not trying to even make a point about anything here. I'm just saying that you're wrong in your statement.


Quote:

McCain was speaking of guards who tortured him for 5 years, so you take words out of context.

I know, as are you.
The only difference is Obama provides context for his.
McCain didn't offer any kind of apology for using a racial slur.
He might be a war hero and a great American, but is he really up to running the US engine at it's most dire hour?
Especially if, god forbid, he carks it midway into the first term and we have our lady Palin making small-talk with Putin while he flies over Alaska.

Quote:

The US did not start a holy war. That is very much misrepresentation of the war.

If Palin says that the Iraq war is a mission from god, how is that not a holy war? How is that any different to muslim extremists saying that the destruction of the west is a mission from god?

And do you really believe that the religious take of the Democrat party is comparable to the of the Republicans?


You keep repeating yourself. Your past 3 posts in response to me have been almost identical, so forgive me if I don't keep up the arguments.

Quote:

Almost all democrats voted for war. If Obama had been in Senate at the time he would have too.


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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 21, 2008 09:26 AM

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:

I do not know what Prime Minister claim but I know it is not US practice to attack citizens. And you claim you do this in just about every war which is another untrue statement.


I'm sure it started earlier, but a practise it became one fine day in August 1945, I think it was the 8th, and continued through the wars. Remember My Lai, for example?


You calim us practice is to attack civiliians in military confilict since 1945 then. So Prove it. There are many who love to bash US but cannot back it up with fact.

So prove to me that since 1945 US has on regular basis (weekly would be good since you say it is continual thing) deliberately targeted civilians in every military confilct.

And I suppose you refer to US bombing of Japan in 1945. Yes, US drpoed atomic bombs. Japan however was the one who started war. US acted to save US lives and to end war. Bombs saved US lives and ended war. Mission accomplished.

This is off-topic and therefore I'll reply once. If you have an interest in this, make it a new topic.

The US dropped two atomic bombs on towns in Japan. The why is highly debatable. You may research, for example, the effect that the imminent Russian attack on Manchuria (per Yalta agreement) had on the decision of the Truman administration, for example.
But that doesn't even matter. Because you know EXACTLY what the deliberate killing of civilians (and there were over 200.000 civilians killed) in order to press a government into action is defined as: terrorist action. It doesn't matter that Japan started the war - the terrorists claim the same, and from THEIR point of view they always have a point as well.
The only thing you may say in favor of that event is, that knowing humanity sooner or later someone HAD dropped am A-bomb, so the US made sure everyone saw the effect making the Japanese suffer, but MAYBE making it all the harder then to use the stuff in the future.
Still that was a deliberate attack on civilians.

For the rest the prior poster said it all, really.

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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted October 21, 2008 02:09 PM
Edited by Elodin at 14:13, 21 Oct 2008.

Quote:

What do you mean it should be weekly lol. Are you saying that if it happened every second week it would be fine



Of course what I mean is you say you should demonstrate that US deliberately kills civilians quite often since you claim it is US practice. You have not proven this with links. You need proofs, not isolated incidents of rogue soldiers. US does not have policy of killing civilians. Your statement is false.

Soldier responsible for My Lai Massacre was prosecuted for murder. America was outraged by incident, not approving of it. Even in that case soldieers had entered village in fear. They had taken casualties from mine field and thought Viet Cong in village.

You list Hiroshima which Jolly Joker already listed. Japan started war. US bombed Japan to save US lives and end war, which it did. When you bomb whether you use conventional bomb or atomic bomb civilian will die. That is war.

LOL! You list civil war which was US North fighting US South.

LOL! Only thing Clinton had to do with war was draft doging. He was not in position to admit anything.

http://www.rt66.com/~korteng/SmallArms/nogunri.htm
Quote:
In these circumstances, especially given the fact that many of the U.S. soldiers lacked combat-experienced officers and Non-commissioned officers, some soldiers may have fired out of fear in response to a perceived enemy threat without considering the possibility that they may be firing on Korean civilians.

Neither the documentary evidence nor the U.S. veterans' statements reviewed by the Review Team support a hypothesis of deliberate killing of Korean civilians. What befell civilians in the vicinity of No Gun Ri in late July 1950 was a tragic and deeply regrettable accompaniment to a war forced upon unprepared U.S. and ROK forces."


For the Ishaqi incident it is noticable that you use anti-US website rather than more reputable source. Here is CNN story
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/02/iraqi.probes/index.html

Quote:
Army Maj. Gen. William Caldwell said Friday that three civilians were killed along with an insurgent, whom he said was a bomb maker and recruiter. A man suspected of being a Kuwaiti-born al Qaeda cell leader was taken into coalition custody and questioned.

Other U.S. officials said Army soldiers conducting the raid near Balad came under fire and called in an airstrike that destroyed a building and killed the civilians.

Caldwell said investigators reported that up to "nine collateral deaths" may have occurred but that "a precise number could not be determined due to the collapsed walls and heavy debris."

Investigators from the Army Criminal Investigation Command concluded that the troops used appropriate force on a legitimate military target after coming


Again, your link about supposed Afghan massacre is by non-reputable anti-US site. And your anti-US source actually say it is Afghan troops who kill Taliban prisoners.

When you attempt to cite sources, please use reputable sources.

Sorry, you have failed to prove that it is US practice to deliberately kill civilians in conflicts.

Quote:
McCain didn't offer any kind of apology for using a racial slur.


McCain was only refering to the guards who tortured him for 5 years. He was not refering to Vietnamese people as a whole. But contrary to your statemet McCain did apologize for comment. Also, as a senator, he was one of the leaders of the postwar effort to normalize U.S. relations with Vietnam.

http://asianweek.com/2000_02_24/feature_mccainapology.html

Quote:
Less than 24 hours after stories ran about Sen. John McCain’s statement to reporters that he would continue to refer to his Vietnamese wartime captors as “gooks,” his campaign announced Feb. 18 that he would no longer use that term. Three days later McCain issued an official apology.

“I will continue to condemn those who unfairly mistreated us,” McCain said in a statement released Feb. 21. “But out of respect to a great number of people for whom I hold in very high regard, I will no longer use the term that has caused such discomfort… I apologize and renounce all language that is bigoted and offensive, which is contrary to all that I represent and believe.”

ýWe hope that people understand that the senator was referring very specifically to the men who beat and tortured him for five and a half years in a prisoner of war camp,” McCain campaign spokesperson Dan Schnur said on Friday. “His language in no way represents his feelings toward the people in Vietnam or the Vietnamese American community.”


The racist words of Obama and Wright are not at all similar to McCain's anger at his torturers.

Quote:
If Palin says that the Iraq war is a mission from god, how is that not a holy war? How is that any different to muslim extremists saying that the destruction of the west is a mission from god?


Do not dodge my question. You claimed US started holy war. Palin had no part in declaring war. Show where Bush say, "My fellow Americans. We being Christian nation must invade and crush Muslim Iraq in name of Jesus Christ and for his glory." Such thing did not occur. War in Iraq is against terrorist not religion.

To quote what I already said of Palin's comment: "Palin is Christian so no doubt it would be proper for her to say America fighting terrorist is  "mission from God." You maybe are atheist and hostile to religion so her statement offend you. But your view on God is not necessarily correct and you must allow others to have free speech and their opinion on God too." She was not refering to destroying Muslim religion and she did not say war was for a religous reason. To try to say her statement is like Muslim terrorst statement is ludicrous.

And Obama want to be "instrument of God" but you do not object. Very stange.

Quote:
And do you really believe that the religious take of the Democrat party is comparable to the of the Republicans?


Please elaborate what you insinuate as I already asked you to do.

Quote:
Because you know EXACTLY what the deliberate killing of civilians (and there were over 200.000 civilians killed) in order to press a government into action is defined as: terrorist action.


Japan started war. US protected US lives by droping bombs. US was not trying "to press a government into actions" other than surrender. In every war you will try make opponent surrender. US was forced into war by Japan's greedy and unwise attack and US forced Japan to surrender. US government's first obligation is protect US lives.

Either candidate for president would have made same decision to drop atomic bomb to end war with Japan.

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DarkShadow
DarkShadow


Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
posted October 21, 2008 02:33 PM
Edited by Darkshadow at 14:34, 21 Oct 2008.

Quote:
Either candidate for president would have made same decision to drop atomic bomb to end war with Japan.


Maybe, but this isn't 1945 anymore .Imagine what happened if they had used ICBM's in Iraq (for example).
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 21, 2008 02:43 PM

Quote:


Quote:
Because you know EXACTLY what the deliberate killing of civilians (and there were over 200.000 civilians killed) in order to press a government into action is defined as: terrorist action.


Japan started war. US protected US lives by droping bombs. US was not trying "to press a government into actions" other than surrender. In every war you will try make opponent surrender. US was forced into war by Japan's greedy and unwise attack and US forced Japan to surrender. US government's first obligation is protect US lives.

Either candidate for president would have made same decision to drop atomic bomb to end war with Japan.


If I'm not wrong US declared war on Iraq. Which means, that Iraq would be right to kill any amount of US civilians to try and force the US government to pull out. Which is somehow what they are doing.

But that's not the point.
The point is, that dropping the bombs was an act of willing, deliberate and wanton murder of civilians, no matter how you try to twist it to justify it, and they took the whole Japanese population as hostages.

I repeat, this is off-topic. If you have claims or points to make, do it in a separate thread.

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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted October 21, 2008 04:37 PM
Edited by Minion at 16:38, 21 Oct 2008.

Elodin is probably speaking of this quote, which he either deliberately distorts or then has misunderstood it himself... can't know which one.

"I can be an instrument of God the same way all of you are."  -Barack Obama

That is completely different from President Bush and Governor Palin, who employs the holy spirit to justify their policy positions.

"Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending [U.S. soldiers] out on a task that is from God." -Sarah Palin

"God told me to strike at al-Qaida and I struck them, and then He instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East." -George W. Bush

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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted October 21, 2008 06:36 PM

Quote:

If I'm not wrong US declared war on Iraq. Which means, that Iraq would be right to kill any amount of US civilians to try and force the US government to pull out. Which is somehow what they are doing.



US did notthing to provoke war with Japan.

Perhaps you are unaware of previous war with US and Iraq. Saddam surrendered. He refused to live up to terms of surrender. Perhaps you also are unawared of Sadaam sponsoring terrorism. Perhaps you also unaware of Saddam murdering many victims who were burried in mass graves. Saddam also lie and make everyone think he still in possession of WMDs in order to bolster his power in Middle East. He did not allow inspections (as required under terms of surrender) and so US invaded.

So Saddam very much provoked invasion. Who can honestly say world is not better off without Saddam? His own countrymen judged him worthy of death.

It is terrorists who US is fighting, not "Iraq."

Quote:

But that's not the point.
The point is, that dropping the bombs was an act of willing, deliberate and wanton murder of civilians, no matter how you try to twist it to justify it, and they took the whole Japanese population as hostages.

I repeat, this is off-topic. If you have claims or points to make, do it in a separate thread.


Then why you keep posting here? You tell me to make new topic but you keep posting attacks on US. I did not introduce US bashing. I responded to unjustified attacks on US.

You are not correct. Bombs were dropped in war started by Japan. The purpose of bombs was to save US lives by ending war. The bombs accomplished desired goal of ending war. You know little of war if you think no bombs or missiles are used in wars and that civilian casualties will not happen. Only in dreamland will there be no civilian casualties in war.

Do you think if China started war with US that US would win war with conventional weapons against millions and millions of troops? No, US would need to drop atomic bombs/use ICBMs.

Quote:
Elodin is probably speaking of this quote, which he either deliberately distorts or then has misunderstood it himself... can't know which one.



Your allegation is false. Do not insinuate I am being dishonest. If you had read previous posts you would see exact quotes of Obama's I refered to.

Here, I requote it from few pages back:
http://www.christianpost.com/article/20071009/obama-breaks-god-talk-tradition.htm

Obama said “Pray that I can be an instrument of God.” Obama says faith is “what propels me to do what I do and when I am down it’s what lifts me up.” Also said God “is with us and He wants us to do the right thing.” When people work together, there is “nothing that can stop us because that’s God’s intention".

Above Obama say he want to be instrument of God and everything he does is because of his faith.

He have said similar thing on other occasion:
http://www.beliefnet.com/News/Politics/2008/01/Barack-Obama-Praying-To-Be-An-Instrument-Of-Gods-Will.aspx

Quote:
The prayer that I tell myself every night is a fairly simple one: I ask in the name of Jesus Christ that my sins are forgiven, that my family is protected and that I am an instrument of God's will. I'm constantly trying to align myself to what I think he calls on me to do. And sometimes you hear it strongly and sometimes that voice is more muted.


Quote:
I felt God's spirit beckoning me. So ultimately, as I write in [“The Audacity of Hope”], I submitted myself to his will, dedicated myself to discovering his truths.


It is interesting you chose not to link to statement you claim Bush make. When I google statement I only find that Palastinian claime he made statement and Bush said he did not. I do not believe he made statement.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46695
Quote:
The White House flatly denies Palestinian claims trumpeted by a BBC television program that President Bush confided to PA leaders God personally instructed him to invade Afghanistan and Iraq and create a Palestinian state


But we know Obama claim to be led by God and to be instrument of God.

It is interesting that you chose to edit Palin speech to make it look like she mean what she did not.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/02/palins-church-may-have-sh_n_123205.html

Quote:
Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending [U.S. soldiers] out on a task that is from God," she exhorted the congregants. "That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan.


So she said to pray that the leaders sending soldiers to war were right in their decision, far from what you claim. Please do not distort meaning of speakers. Also, references are nice to have when you make claim about what someone say.

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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted October 21, 2008 08:12 PM

Are you honeslty here claiming that Obama is more influenced by his faith in his decision making than Palin? Do you yourself believe that?

A straight answer, please.
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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
HC SUPPORTER
posted October 21, 2008 09:29 PM

Yes, because he's a Muslim extremist who hates America. Didn't you get the memo?
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nocaplato
nocaplato


Adventuring Hero
Lover of Ancient Philosophy
posted October 22, 2008 06:53 AM
Edited by nocaplato at 08:28, 22 Oct 2008.

First, I think the question of whether or not the Iraq conflict has ever been cast as a religious war came up somewhere in the last couple pages.

Let's see what George has to say:

Crusade

(Many of these are youtube postings.  I'm sorry about.  Many of the clips speak for themselves and don't need the stupid editorializing of the posters or the scary imagery they've cut in.  Also, the videos sometimes flow directly on to the next clip in a couple so you may have to stop them before the next clip auto plays.  If you watch these, though, I think you'll see a frightening pattern)

Vis a vis the religious issue... here's a piece of stupidity for some fun consumption:

Conrad

It should speak for itself... and, oh, this doesn't come from some 'liberal msm' biased news organization. It was an invocation at one of McCain's speeches.

How about this group:

Hagee on Fear of Islam and Palestine

Hagee defended by McCain supporter

Hagee defended by Leiberman

Or this one, less famous than the Hagee stuff, but just so you have a chance to see it:

Rod Parsley

Here's one just for fun from Stephen Colbert:

Colbert on Robertson, Falwell, McCain, Wright, Obama/

Here's some in Robertson's own words:

Robertson 1

So... was there a question about who was advocating for a religious or holy war?  Not enough for you?  How about this one?

Jesus has won the Holy War!!

And so, we come full circle.  Was there an element of religious crusade underneath all this Iraq stuff?  Certainly.  Was it part of the mainstream Republican sentiment?  Probably not, but the base and the far right religious movement is certainly complicit.  Was McCain happy to receive these endorsements?  Of course he was!  He needed to solidify his core once he'd won the primary because so much of them distrusted the previous version of McCain as too liberal.  So in the quiet months before the end of the Democratic primary season, McCain courted these guys, drifting further and further to the far right.  

Even so, excitement in the conservative base didn't get really jacked up until Palin was selected.

A little sample of where Sarah worshipped:

Church Lady

Here's the famous laying on of hands, preceeded by Muthee's militant ideas about God.  The interesting thing here is that Sarah was not only in the audience, but came up to have the laying on of hands after he gave his war speech (including anti Buddhist and Islamic comments, in which they are called 'witch-craft')
God of War

Are you buying what she says to Charlie Gibson in this piece after seeing those other two clips?  You decide.
Holy War, or not?


Did she come to regret any of this later on?  Not according to Sarah Palin.
Palin on Muthee

Any wonder why the base is suddenly energized?

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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted October 22, 2008 04:22 PM

Wtf?? Yeah, we don't need campaign finance reform.  

From ABC News:

"The Republican National Committee has spent more than $150,000 to clothe and accessorize vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin and her family since her surprise pick by John McCain in late August," Politico's Jeanne Cummings reports. "According to financial disclosure records, the accessorizing began in early September and included bills from Saks Fifth Avenue in St. Louis and New York for a combined $49,425.74. The records also document a couple of big-time shopping trips to Neiman Marcus in Minneapolis, including one $75,062.63 spree in early September."


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OmegaDestroyer
OmegaDestroyer

Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
posted October 22, 2008 05:09 PM

Not really a surprise seeing as how much money has already been wasted by both candidates.
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I bring forth the raze

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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted October 22, 2008 06:48 PM
Edited by Elodin at 18:51, 22 Oct 2008.

nocaplato
Quote:
So... was there a question about who was advocating for a religious or holy war?  Not enough for you?  How about this one?


You provided no proof of war with Iraq being religious war. Most of links not even related to war at all. Show where Bush said "My fellow Americans, we are Christian nation and must kick Islamic countrie's butts in name of Jesus. We will start with Iraq."

Quote:
Probably not, but the base and the far right religious movement is certainly complicit.


False statement. Show where "religious right" was consulted in going to war. Almost all democrats in Congress voted for war. Are they "religious right?"

About Palin's church:

Your video lie about beliefs. Pentecostals do not desire a war to end the world. Your video also lie about Palins "mission from God" statement as I proved already. There is many other lies that pop up in text boxes. Including insinuations of racism and say she is same as Muslim terrorist. One should not resort to lies to smear someone not agree with and should feel shame to present such video as "proof."

I sam no "Muthee's militant ideas about God." What exactly was militant? He say Christians should not just pray but also vote. Perhaps you are athiest and want Christian hide in closet and have no say in election? That would be very intollerant view that you only think non religous person should have vote. You vote as you like and allow religious person to vote as they like.

Your vidoe's constantly misrepresent what Palin say about "mission from God." Here is what she say as I quoted before. She pray that leaders made correct decision.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/02/palins-church-may-have-sh_n_123205.html

Quote:
Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending [U.S. soldiers] out on a task that is from God," she exhorted the congregants. "That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan.


Quote:
Wtf?? Yeah, we don't need campaign finance reform.


Yes, there is need for reform. Republica say they donate clothes to charity after elsection. Theree has also been many irregualarities in Obama campaign finanse. May peple have donated more than allowed by making many small contributions. Also Muslim terroists have donated to Obama campaign.

http://www.worldthreats.com/?p=178

Quote:
Are you honeslty here claiming that Obama is more influenced by his faith in his decision making than Palin? Do you yourself believe that?

A straight answer, please.


All I know is Obama make statements about being instument of God and being led by God, hearing his voice. Yet you refuse condemn him and condemn Palin.

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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted October 22, 2008 07:44 PM

Quote:
Republica say they donate clothes to charity after elsection.

Yeah, just what the homeless need: clothes and accessories from Saks and Nieman Marcus.
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Elodin
Elodin


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Free Thinker
posted October 22, 2008 09:09 PM
Edited by Elodin at 21:13, 22 Oct 2008.

I agreed that there needs to be reform . But Dems also engaged in excess. Obama had custom made $1500 suit. And what of "Greek Temple" set that Obama had made for Dem nomination? Britney Spears designer made it so I'm sure it was not cheap. There was also number of dresses made for Obama's wife. Obama also pay ACORN 800,000 to "turn out vote" and they make fake registrations.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/mirrorimage/Obama_to_Look_Fly_in_Custom_Made_Suit_Tonight.html

http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/2008/08/28/obamas-greek-temple-built-by-britney-spears-set-designer/

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