|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
posted October 24, 2008 01:56 PM |
|
|
The Straight Talk Express is coming into town! Choo-choo! 
IIRC, Palin's e-mail wasn't hacked. The hacker just answered her security question, and logged in.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
|
|
posted October 24, 2008 02:06 PM |
|
|
I heard some betting agencies are already paying out on Obama's win
edit:
Turns out it's not a joke
true story
____________
John says to live above hell.
|
|
Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
|
|
posted October 24, 2008 04:31 PM |
|
Edited by Elodin at 16:32, 24 Oct 2008.
|
Quote:
Now, in general, it's always the same interesting phenomenon to see that as soon as you try to let the extreme religious right look into a mirror they cry "Hate! Bash! Foul!"
More hate speech I see.
Quote:
The constitution grants everyone the right to follow their own religion if it's in keeping with the law which makes it abundantly clear that religion is something PRIVATE! You can pray to your dead grand-grand-grand-ma, if you keep it private - and if you don't start a campaign claiming that your dead grand-grand-grand-ma wants you to go and kill all people who pray to their dead grand-grand-grand-pa.
Pray to dead grand-grand-pa if you wish.
And you incorrect. Person do not have to hide in closet to practice religion in US. Maybe in country you from religious person have to hide to practice religion. Such is case in communist nation. But US constitution have promise of freedom of religion. Religious person in US can practice religion in public.
Quote:
Quite frankly, I deeply distrust politicians who have god on their lips
Quote:
Quite frankly, I deeply distrust politicians who have god on their lips - the best you can say about them is, that they are in the wrong job and should have become preacher. A lot more likely is, though, that they are just trying to fool someone:
So you say Obama should be preacher like his pastor Rev Wright. Obama prays to be instrument of God, says hear voice of God, and to be led by God.
Yes, elitist liberals condemning others for their religion. Perhaps it is you fooling yourself that your view of God is correct one. You condemning sincere religious person as hypocrit trying to fool others. How elitist. Leftists are very intollerant people.
Quote:
You've heard of rhetorical questions I assume?
You presume to read my thoughts. Read context of sentence instead.
Quote:
Really? not a war against Islam?
Yes, really. US troop fight side by side with Muslims against terrorists. Your claim of US start holy war against Islam just didn't hold up to evidence.
Quote:
My bad.
Yes, you should stop misrepresentations.
Quote:
Don't really want to or need to. The Crusade idea isn't an appeal to all of the US at all, it's code for the Religious Right. Read the end of my last post. What scares me is the hate and fear being preached
You preach hate against "religious right" is all hate I hear being preached. Yes, you claimed US launched holy war against Islam so you do need prove it. But is impossible to pove your cliam becuse US fights side by side with Muslims and have Muslim nations as ally.
Quote:
What's your point? Do you have some refutation of my analysis? Bloodbath isn't a scary word to you? You're saying Hagee didn't claim it was the fault of US policies he didn't like? He's not saying do it this way or terrorists will get you? Why? Because it talks about splitting Israel in the Bible that makes it not hate speech? Are you telling me the word terrorist is in that same chapter and verse (or anywhere in the good book, for that matter?)
Ha, I already responded to your misrepresentations before. What you say previously was "The first is that they display a pattern of aggression and fear mongering. For example, Hagee says God will unleash terrorists against us '...and this nation is going to go through a bloodbath' (my emphasis). The second is, that there is, as a matter of fact, a very strong urge toward war among the Christian Right."
This was a "proof" from you of pastors calling for war in Iraq. I corrected misrepresentation you made by saying pastor actually said US should not force Israel to give land to make Palistinian state. Preacher said God have given Israel land and God would use terrorist to judge US if US force Israel give land up. That had nothing at all to do with war in Iraq despite your misrepresentation. There was no call for war in Iraq or against Islam, no not at all.
Quote:
Holy crap, you didn't actually just say that did you? Do you need a transcript? Sheesh, you even lumped Parsely in there, someone you were just selling up the river a page ago as not speaking on behalf of the Christian faith. I'm sorry, but you're being ridiculous.
No, I heard not any hate speech except whay I read in your tirades.
Quote:
Perhaps you noticed the concept of Islam as an Anti-Christ Religion. Perhaps you noticed the combination of Buddhist in the same sentence as witchcraft.
Perhaps I noticed previous cliam of yours that Muthee said all nonbelievers use witchcraft and cast spells and use black magic. What he actually say was if Christians active then there will be no Buddist, Muslim, witchcraft or sorcery taught in school and ten commandments would still be taught in school. Now you tone down claim a little and just say he Buddhist in same sentence. Yes, he did but he did not call Buddhist witch.
Quote:
Perhaps you noticed the suggestion that not following Hagee's advice on Israel would be a bloodbath.
Perhaps I notice that you took Haggees statement out of his context. He was not making call for war on Iraq or war against Islam as I explained several time already.
Quote:
Oh, the irony! I'm guilty of hate speech because these guys are intolerant?
No, perhaps you accusing others of hate speech when you are guilty party and intollerant of others who not have your beliefs.
Quote:
Problem with all those speeches and fiery rhetoric is that they do give a good G@D D@mn. Too many of those 'gentlemen scholars' think you can't be Buddhist, you can't be Hindu, don't even mention atheists, you might be able to make it if you're Jewish, (if you take Jesus as yor personal savior) and don't get me started on the terrori... er... Muslims. Oh, and as for my own Catholic beliefs, why don't you take a look at Hagee there. I always enjoyed having it called the great snow, especially because the Virgin Mary is so important to us.
So you are intollerant of belief that Jesus is only way to heaven.
And Hagee is falsely misrepresented. He did not call Catholic church "great snow." He say people of all denomination will make up "great whole" spoken of in Revelation. That is another "misrepresentation" of liberas. They wanted deflect attention from Obama's racist pastor so they make lies.
http://www.cufi.org/site/PageServer?pagename=learn_teachings
Quote:
Paint it up any color you want, accuse me of whatever you'd like. The videos, their words, speak for themselves.
Yes, there is lies in the pop up and cliping of sentence to give sentence different meaning than when spoken.
Quote:
What's more unnerving to me is that he implies our school systems are teaching Buddhism, Islam, Witch-craft and Sorcery.
In some school that is case.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=17206
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=65659
http://catholicknight.blogspot.com/2007/08/public-schools-now-promote-witchcraft.html
http://www.j21c.org/report5.htm
Quote:
naming those religions in the same sentence as witch-craft and sorcery is to equate them.
False statement. He never equated Buddhist or Muslim to witchcraft.
Quote:
Not just that there are competing beliefs, his speech implies that Christianity has been excluded in favor of these other pagan or heathen belief systems.
He say Christians should not just pray but also be active in education, government, and politics. Teachers in school do promote their belief, religious, political and otherwise either explicit teaching or teaching implicitly.
Quote:
So, you're saying that witchcraft and sorcery are being taught in school? By the way, you strike me as a Christian. You're telling me that magic and witch-craft aren't black magic? And yet by your own quote you claim it's being taught in school?
In some schools certain elements of those have entered, yes. Witches make distinction between "black magic" and "white magic." Some say they practice only "white magic" to try help people and that "black magic" harm others.
Quote:
Um... wrong as usual King Friday. He says "Buddhism and Muslim" in the same sentence as "Sorcery and Withcraft". Maybe you don't think of them Buddhism as non-Christian, but most do, and equating the with black magic (i.e. witch-craft and sorcery) is tantamount to calling them the enemy.
No, you misrepresent again. He never say Buddhist and Muslim are enemies of Christians. And of course all relgion that is not Christian is non-Christian but that not make them enemies. And he never equate Buddhist with black magic and never even say black magic at all. To Christian enemy is devil not people.
Quote:
Oh, poor Christians, never get to have any say in society
That is strange response to me saying "Yes, that it what he say. "War" of beliefs. Christians have right to have say in society too."
Yes, Christian should have say in society too. Christian should be active in politics, governament, and education like all other people can be.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted October 24, 2008 05:12 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
Now, in general, it's always the same interesting phenomenon to see that as soon as you try to let the extreme religious right look into a mirror they cry "Hate! Bash! Foul!"
More hate speech I see.
You "see"? I don't think so.
Quote:
Quote:
The constitution grants everyone the right to follow their own religion if it's in keeping with the law which makes it abundantly clear that religion is something PRIVATE! You can pray to your dead grand-grand-grand-ma, if you keep it private - and if you don't start a campaign claiming that your dead grand-grand-grand-ma wants you to go and kill all people who pray to their dead grand-grand-grand-pa.
Pray to dead grand-grand-pa if you wish.
And you incorrect. Person do not have to hide in closet to practice religion in US. Maybe in country you from religious person have to hide to practice religion. Such is case in communist nation. But US constitution have promise of freedom of religion. Religious person in US can practice religion in public.
Exactly. EVERYONE can. From EVERY religion. And no religion has ANY advantage in ANYthing. So as soon as one ORGANIZED religion starts to take action to try and undermine that right for other religions or try and "fight" others or try to become the dominant religion, for example in schools, they oppress the rights of the other religions - and the natural course of action would be to ban any such official organisation of that religion.
Quote:
Quote:
Quite frankly, I deeply distrust politicians who have god on their lips - the best you can say about them is, that they are in the wrong job and should have become preacher. A lot more likely is, though, that they are just trying to fool someone:
So you say Obama should be preacher like his pastor Rev Wright. Obama prays to be instrument of God, says hear voice of God, and to be led by God.
Yes, elitist liberals condemning others for their religion. Perhaps it is you fooling yourself that your view of God is correct one. You condemning sincere religious person as hypocrit trying to fool others. How elitist. Leftists are very intollerant people.
Nah, you are misquoting and just fooling around for the sake of saying something meaningful, when all you have is attacks and twisting the truth. Obama said:
Quote:
"I can be an instrument of God they same way all of you are."
That's one HELL of a lot of difference. Moreover, and interestingly enough Obama just states that he is of Christian belief. Not more. He's not demanding anything from it, nor does he declare holy wars or try to tell anyone that his work is god's work and the usual kind of bull you hear day in day out from the same load of hypocrites who are just using the name of god for their own ends.
|
|
Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
|
|
posted October 24, 2008 07:53 PM |
|
Edited by Elodin at 20:02, 24 Oct 2008.
|
Quote:
Exactly. EVERYONE can. From EVERY religion. And no religion has ANY advantage in ANYthing. So as soon as one ORGANIZED religion starts to take action to try and undermine that right for other religions or try and "fight" others or try to become the dominant religion, for example in schools, they oppress the rights of the other religions - and the natural course of action would be to ban any such official organisation of that religion.
But why you object to Christian being active in education and why you not object to Muslim, Budhist and Wican pushing their beliefs into education?
Quote:
Nah, you are misquoting and just fooling around for the sake of saying something meaningful, when all you have is attacks and twisting the truth. Obama said
:
Nah, it is you who only have attacks and twisting of truth. I already quoted other Obama sayings.
http://www.christianpost.com/article/20071009/obama-breaks-god-talk-tradition.htm
Quote:
Obama said “Pray that I can be an instrument of God.” Obama says faith is “what propels me to do what I do and when I am down it’s what lifts me up.” Also said God “is with us and He wants us to do the right thing.” When people work together, there is “nothing that can stop us because that’s God’s intention".
Above Obama say he want to be instrument of God and everything he does is because of his faith.
He have said similar thing on other occasion:
http://www.beliefnet.com/News/Politics/2008/01/Barack-Obama-Praying-To-Be-An-Instrument-Of-Gods-Will.aspx
Quote:
The prayer that I tell myself every night is a fairly simple one: I ask in the name of Jesus Christ that my sins are forgiven, that my family is protected and that I am an instrument of God's will. I'm constantly trying to align myself to what I think he calls on me to do. And sometimes you hear it strongly and sometimes that voice is more muted.
Quote:
I felt God's spirit beckoning me. So ultimately, as I write in [“The Audacity of Hope”], I submitted myself to his will, dedicated myself to discovering his truths
It is interesting you do not condemn Obama for saying he hear voice of God and led by God and is instrument of God. But you condemn Palin for saying she pray leaders made decision that was will of God. Hypocritical.
Quote:
nor does he declare holy wars
No Christian declared "holy war." There is not even concept in Christian belief of "holy war." Jesus say his kingdom is not of this world.
Quote:
or try to tell anyone that his work is god's work
Oh but he did. Please see quotes above.
Quote:
and the usual kind of bull you hear day in day out from the same load of hypocrites who are just using the name of god for their own ends.
Ah, the anti-Christian hate speech of the liberal elitest, the least tolerant of all peoples.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted October 24, 2008 09:20 PM |
|
|
Quote:
But why you object to Christian being active in education and why you not object to Muslim, Budhist and Wican pushing their beliefs into education?
As far as I know it's the other way round. Christian beliefs have dominated society and education since who knows when, and now other religious groupings demand the same right.
Quote:
Nah, it is you who only have attacks and twisting of truth. I already quoted other Obama sayings.
The trouble is that you QUOTE Obama, but you don't seem to acually read, not to mention understand what he's saying. Maybe you should actually read the quotes you are giving before you start comparing them with the quotes of others.
Quote:
Quote:
and the usual kind of bull you hear day in day out from the same load of hypocrites who are just using the name of god for their own ends.
Ah, the anti-Christian hate speech of the liberal elitest, the least tolerant of all peoples.
I have to thank you for making it so clear that Christians for you are a load of hypocrites who are just using the name of god for their own ends. It seems that you are mistaking something here.
|
|
nocaplato
Adventuring Hero
Lover of Ancient Philosophy
|
|
posted October 25, 2008 02:06 AM |
|
|
It's all pretty much a wash. Not realizing the word 'infiltrate' was in the speech, and highlighted by the pop-ups, I'm pretty much done debating with you about anything.
Constantly claiming the speeches are misrepresented, while not even addressing the clear facts just destroys your credibility. You had your shot at winning the debate, but as far as I'm concerned any chance claim you make is based on shakey foundations. I'm done.
I was going to respond to your one of your comments, but I think the point would be moot. For those interested, here's the ironic claim:
Quote:
So you are intollerant of belief that Jesus is only way to heaven
(emphasis is mine).
Irony... you see? only way which means that other... oh well, if you can't see it, it's not worth discussing.
|
|
OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
|
|
posted October 25, 2008 02:35 AM |
|
|
Gotta love it.
____________
The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
|
|
TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
|
|
posted October 25, 2008 02:44 AM |
|
|
lol that is a classic story
____________
John says to live above hell.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted October 25, 2008 08:39 AM |
|
|
The newest issue of one of Germany's biggest magazines "Stern" (Star)
titles:
http://www.stern.de/magazin/heft/:Magazin-Der-Ruinator/643005.html
"Ruinator: In only 8 years George W. Bush has run the most powerful country in the world kaput."
|
|
TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
|
|
posted October 25, 2008 08:59 AM |
|
|
that's kinda old news, the question now is... can it be fixed?
____________
John says to live above hell.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted October 25, 2008 09:58 AM |
|
|
Right, but for this topic it illustrates what will happen (or rather has happened): McCain is something of a tragic figure here; in 2000 he would have been elected except Bush got the nomination. In hindsight there can be no doubt that McCain would have been the better man - Bush is very clearly one of the most unfit people who ever had the honour to be elected president; he's a disgrace as president of the most powerful nation in the world - at least that's what a lot of people are thinking.
Obviously all those who were undecided especially in 2004 and then DID vote for Bush won't be all too pleased with their decision, even if it was only for the fact that if Kerry had been elected in 2004, now HE would have to take the blame for everything that went wrong in the last 4 years.
Which means that Bush was in McCain's way in 2000, and that he's even more in McCain's way in 2008, since McCain now will have to suffer for all mistakes Bush and his administration have made.
You might say, in 2000 it was the Republican Party's fault while in 2004 it was the voters's fault (no matter whether something was not right with a couple of votes - it shouldn't have even been close).
McCain will now be the scapegoat and remembered as the man who lost clearly to a black Democrat candidate - when it's in fact Bush who will lose against Obama.
|
|
OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
|
|
posted October 25, 2008 10:30 AM |
|
|
Quote:
The newest issue of one of Germany's biggest magazines "Stern" (Star)
titles:
http://www.stern.de/magazin/heft/:Magazin-Der-Ruinator/643005.html
"Ruinator: In only 8 years George W. Bush has run the most powerful country in the world kaput."
Is a German magazine in any position to comment on how much damage another country's leader has caused?
I love how easy it is to blame one person for the problem. What about Congress? The legislature is supposed to check the executive and failed miserably because it was too afraid of public opinion (lot of good that did). How about the Judiciary? How about the fleeing industries? Unions? It's way too convenient and pathetic to blame one person for a nation's problems.
____________
The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
|
|
TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
|
|
posted October 25, 2008 11:07 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Is a German magazine in any position to comment on how much damage another country's leader has caused?
...yes.
You can't deny that dubya has done a monumental job of screwing things up, regardless of what others have done.
____________
John says to live above hell.
|
|
OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
|
|
posted October 25, 2008 05:25 PM |
|
|
Yeah, that comment about the magazine was a bit unnecessary. I just get sick of other country's constantly complaining about our politics. They don't like how the US does things, bring it up with the UN. It won't get anybody anywhere but the US might get a stinging letter out of it.
I do not deny President Bush has made some poor decisions but he isn't the only guilty party. Like I said, what about Congress? While the president's term is done, congressional leaders can still be re-elected and continue to make terrible decisions. Sadly, the majority of Americans don't realize that (even though Congress has a lower approval rating than President Bush).
____________
The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted October 25, 2008 07:26 PM |
|
|
Omega is right. Though Bush deserves most of the blame because he's the leader of the Republican Party, there's plenty of blame to go around. I'd also blame the mainstream Republicans (that is, not people like Ron Paul or Lincoln Chafee) for following Bush off a cliff. In particular, I'd blame Tom DeLay and Dennis Hastert, as well as the Senatorial Axis of Evil: Trent Lott, Rick Santorum, and Tom Coburn. I'd also blame the military-industrial complex and Dick Cheney. And I blame everybody in Congress who didn't stand up to them.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
|
|
posted October 25, 2008 08:53 PM |
|
|
Don't forget the impotent Pelosi and Reid, as well as the Democrats for caring more about getting re-elected (like everybody in politics) than fixing problems.
____________
The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted October 25, 2008 10:16 PM |
|
|
Yeah, them too. At least they had the power to stop anything from happening in the last 2 years. But, after trying to use it a little, they capitulated. Pathetic.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
|
|
posted October 26, 2008 02:09 AM |
|
|
The only thing this Congress will be remembered for is greatly expanding the authority of the executive.
____________
The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
|
|
TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
|
|
posted October 26, 2008 02:52 AM |
|
|
Sure others are to blame.
The article was specifically about Bush, though.
Does it really need a disclaimer at the bottom saying
PS. Other people to blame are;
-Congress
-Senate
-Pelosi
-Reid
-Democrats
-Osama
-Clinton
-Michael Jackson
-Steve Jobs
-Bam Margera
-The Hamburgular
____________
John says to live above hell.
|
| |
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
