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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: United States President: 2008
Thread: United States President: 2008 This thread is 90 pages long: 1 10 20 30 40 50 60 ... 67 68 69 70 71 ... 80 90 · «PREV / NEXT»
JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted November 02, 2008 10:47 AM

Quote:
Pretty much what I said, only you said it better (as usual) JJ.

We were posting at the same time. For the rest, nah. You know that I like your style.

And for the rest: most of them don't CURE. They TREAT. For sicknesses, the best they can do is helping and supporting the natural system of the body to overcome it. Except what I would call accident surgery, and that's called REPAIR (and here's where western medicine really has its finest hour).
The only ones that try to CURE are psychotherapists and those who explicitely try a different mix of non-evasive therapies, acknowledging that the best thing you can do is helping body and mind to help themselves.

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Azagal
Azagal


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Smooth Snake
posted November 02, 2008 10:47 AM
Edited by Azagal at 10:49, 02 Nov 2008.

Quote:
There are exceptions to every rule.

Yes of course. But what seem to missunderstood is that I'm not argueing that that isn't so but that you are wrong concerning this statement:
Quote:
Just as I am sure there are doctors who actually try to cure people and not just treat the symptoms.  However, they are too few, too underfunded, and too 'stretched thin'.

They are not a minority. The doctors you talk about are the minority. Do you even know what the Hippocritic Oath is? Do you have any idea how serious an Doctor takes his job? You obviously don't since you are accussing everybody that doesn't belong to your "few" of not doing their job as a doctor. Which is being horribly unfair apart from being dead wrong.

Quote:
You believe what you wish

Don't worry I do, unenlighted as I am.
____________
"The superior man is modest in
his speech but exceeds in his
actions." Confucius

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Mytical
Mytical


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Chaos seeking Harmony
posted November 02, 2008 10:51 AM

No you misunderstand me.  I am not saying they are not doing their jobs, or even to the best of their ability.  What I am saying is what JJ said right above.  They treat, because that is what they have.  They do not CURE, and not by any fault of their own.  Companies don't pay billions to research for CURES, but they will pay billions for something that TREATS the symptoms.  Go figure.
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Azagal
Azagal


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posted November 02, 2008 11:03 AM

Quote:
I am not saying they are not doing their jobs, or even to the best of their ability.

If that is so then everything is ok it's just that your original sentence had another ring to it.
Quote:
Just as I am sure there are doctors who actually try to cure people and not just treat the symptoms.

"and not just treat the symptoms"....If a doctor can't cure you because the medicine to "cure" you doesn't exist it's not his fault. I simply don't like how you are saying that the majority of doctors do not honestly try to help you as much as they can (as you did in that sentence). Your last statement is fine it's just the part that I keep quoting that is wrong.

____________
"The superior man is modest in
his speech but exceeds in his
actions." Confucius

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TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


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posted November 02, 2008 12:07 PM

offtopic

Sure they treat some things when a doctor does not have a cure or when treatment is enough for the immune system to fix (like the flu), other times there is a cure, or other times a vaccine is used which does cure that disease forever.

Just because there is no cure for cancer doesn't mean that doctors don't want cures. Many diseases have been cured.
Believe me they couldn't care less, there will always be work for a doctor.
I don't think a shortage of medical need is ever going to be an issue.

So to say that doctors don't want cures because they want to earn more money this is simply obscene.


Quote:
Companies don't pay billions to research for CURES, but they will pay billions for something that TREATS the symptoms.  Go figure.

No, the search for a cure for cancer is one of the world's biggest causes for donation.


Doctors treat when it is necessary. There is nothing evil or greedy about treating disease.
I do not see how you can honestly argue that they choose to treat rather than cure to make more money.

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to sound rude, but I just find your 'greedy doctor' conspiracy outrageous.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted November 02, 2008 02:34 PM

Umm, all that stuff pharmaceutical companies develop... someone has to prescribe it, right? Otherwise the pharma corps won't sell it, except aspirin and so on...

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TheDeath
TheDeath


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with serious business
posted November 02, 2008 02:39 PM

Quote:
No, the search for a cure for cancer is one of the world's biggest causes for donation.
You sure those end up where they are supposed to?
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The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.

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TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


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posted November 03, 2008 02:07 AM
Edited by TitaniumAlloy at 02:11, 03 Nov 2008.

I'm sorry anyone who tries to tell me that doctor's don't want a cure for cancer because they want to make more money is really not worth arguing with.

I find this a disgusting claim, it really takes the 'this world is twisted and people suck' conspiracy way too far.


Ugh I've gotta get off HC.
This whole "yeah you can think that but you're being naive" thing is making me so mad.

You're just wrong.
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John says to live above hell.

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JapanGamer
JapanGamer


Known Hero
posted November 03, 2008 02:59 AM
Edited by JapanGamer at 03:00, 03 Nov 2008.

I remember people saying about others beliefs on something "you can think that sure, that's your prerogative" and I snapped lol.
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OmegaDestroyer
OmegaDestroyer

Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
posted November 03, 2008 04:03 AM
Edited by OmegaDestroyer at 04:06, 03 Nov 2008.

Edit:  Eh, what's the point?
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The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
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mvassilev
mvassilev


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posted November 03, 2008 05:46 AM

We are two days away from making an important choice, a choice that will determine who our next President will be. We should make it carefully, taking in all the available information, and not vote simply on personality. We have a choice between two ideologies, one that says that we must bankrupt our children while bathing the world in blood, and one that says that we must bankrupt them while giving ample flesh to the leeches.

I'll try my luck with the leeches.

If John McCain wins, it would be a mistake to say that he will continue all of Bush's policies. He has shown considerable independence from his party in the past, and, despite constant cries of "McSame!", he still continues to reject party orthodoxy on questions such as global warming and detainee treatment. And John McCain has served this country honorably, giving five and a half years of his life in a Vietnamese POW camp because of his sense of patriotic duty.

But it takes more than that to make a President.

Barack Obama has his share of problems. It is true that we need to raise some taxes (but we should lower others), but he does so overzealously, and uses very questionable rhetoric. Am I selfish for wanting to keep what I earn? Nevertheless, with Barack Obama we will at least not stretch our military past its breaking point, and we'll improve our image in the world by not resorting to our fists at every disagreement.

Barack Obama isn't some fire-breathing populist. The smear artists seek to paint him as a radical, but I doubt his actual polices will be very left-wing. He doesn't want to raise walls around the United States and cut off trade completely, though he does make mistakes on trade policy. He understands that we need to improve our education system, and not through vouchers, but a longer school year isn't the right way.

The fundamentals of our economy are strong. American higher education still commands respect worldwide, and the college graduates from our top universities are the best in the world. What we need to do is to bring the rest up accordingly. We can't have brilliant MIT graduates without good public schools. And merit pay for teachers, which Obama supports, is a path to that end.

But, though it pains me to have to say it, look at these people's histories. Obama chastised his half-brother for wanting to get our of Kenya. McCain sold his soul for the nomination. Obama sat in the racist pews of a hate-mongering pastor for 20 years. McCain hugged George Bush.

Obama wants to spread the wealth around. McCain wants to bomb, bomb, bomb Iran.

But we should also look at these people's judgments. McCain said the Iraq war would be easy. Obama spoke out against it early. McCain supports the Bush tax cuts. Obama opposes extending them.

It is a sad fact that due to various circumstances, the VP picks are more important than ever. Obama picked a decent fellow with good experience. McCain picked an idiot from Seward's Folly. What does that say about their judgment?

But I don't like Barack Obama. He is a questionable character, and he shares several flaws with his opponent, such as his Afghanistan and immigration policies. Nevertheless, we need to balance the Supreme Court, improve education, and not drown in blood.

So Obama '08 and Republicans '10!
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Azagal
Azagal


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posted November 03, 2008 07:44 AM

Quote:
I'm sorry anyone who tries to tell me that doctor's don't want a cure for cancer because they want to make more money is really not worth arguing with.

I find this a disgusting claim, it really takes the 'this world is twisted and people suck' conspiracy way too far.


Ugh I've gotta get off HC.
This whole "yeah you can think that but you're being naive" thing is making me so mad.

You're just wrong.

No TA we're just naive. We just don't know it yet.

But I couldn't agree more with what you said.
____________
"The superior man is modest in
his speech but exceeds in his
actions." Confucius

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Mytical
Mytical


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Chaos seeking Harmony
posted November 03, 2008 07:51 AM

I really was just going to let this lay.  However, here is a question I want you to ask yourselves.  When you go into a doctor with say a cough.  What happens?  They may look in your ear, look down your throat..and give you something for a cough. 99.99999% of the time, this is the right thing to do.  A cough is usually just a cough.

However, that is treating a symptom.  What about the times it is not 'just a cough'?  This is what I mean.  They treat the symptom, because 99.99999999% of the time it is 'just a cough'.  I could tell you some horror stories about doctors that I've witnessed myself, but meh.  Why bother.  I am just a evil, insane, person who thinks the worst of 'humanity'.
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OmegaDestroyer
OmegaDestroyer

Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
posted November 03, 2008 07:53 AM

Good to see I'm not the only lawyer around.
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The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down

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Azagal
Azagal


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posted November 03, 2008 07:54 AM
Edited by Azagal at 08:01, 03 Nov 2008.

Haaha

EDIT: And Mytical I quoted TA because I honestly felt exactly the same, not because I wanted to reawake any discussion. I understand quite clearly what you are trying to say no need for another example.
Just like you said
Quote:
You believe what you wish

And I'll stick to my naivity.
____________
"The superior man is modest in
his speech but exceeds in his
actions." Confucius

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Mytical
Mytical


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Chaos seeking Harmony
posted November 03, 2008 08:04 AM

As for voting.  I am voting Obama. Both have serious issues, I just agree with more of Obama's 'issues' then with McCain's 'issues'.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted November 03, 2008 09:48 AM

About the cure of cancer you are both wrong.
Of course they want a cure of cancer - we see it already in action in one specific case (Mytical will know about): vaccinate people for every single cancer type they don't want to get (which spells: all).
Now, if it would work - great. But it would be expensive. And it had the advantage that EVERYONE would pay for multiple vaccinations - and not only those who'd actually get it.

So let's simply agree on that all docs are wishing dearly for a cure for every possible ailment - but, if possible, lord, a cure that will fill their pockets.

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TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


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posted November 03, 2008 10:54 AM

Quote:
I am just a evil, insane, person who thinks the worst of 'humanity'.

I say this in all honesty, there is a limit.
There's only so far you can push it.
I hope you can find this line, or that at the very least this is just your online persona arguing this.





@MVASS:
Mvass, to be honest I really don't think we know what kind of a president McCain will be.
Before the republican primaries he made some solid foundations, but it must be said how much he has agreed with Bush over his political career.
However, the fact remains that he has back flipped on so many things. I hate to say it but I think he has changed his whole outlook just to combat Obama. For instance the whole 'socialism' thing: he won't touch it now (ignoring the ironic bailout which he supports), yet in his earlier campaigns his position was not dissimilar to Obamas. Other examples are Roe v Wade and the Bush Tax cuts.
He has changed so much. He's abandoned everything he's always stood for.


Now do we know how Obama will be as president?
Maybe not. Maybe it's not wise to base votes on a good campaign, but compared to McCain's shocking campaign and overall aura of inadaquacy.

However I agree with Obama's policies and senate record. He strikes me as intelligent, reasoning and is not warmongering, and seems to be a candidate that America needs to restore it to it's former glory.
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Mytical
Mytical


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Chaos seeking Harmony
posted November 03, 2008 11:14 AM

((Hmm got to learn that sarcasm doesn't carry well over the internet.  Since I am a person who always tries to see the best in people.  *shrug*))

Funny thing is, when it first started out Obama vs McCain, McCain was actually closer to getting my vote.  I'd say I was 51% for Obama, and 49% for McCain.  As horrible as it sounds, it is Palin that buried any chance McCain had to sway me.  More to the point, how the campain has been running with her.  First, they are coming accross as if the only reason Palin was chose was because she was female.  Second, that she is just 'eye candy', and lastly like she is some china doll that will break if confronted with the least little problem.

I would absolutely LOVE for a female to be Vice President or President of the United States.  Would be a dream come true, but they royally missed the boat on this one.  Somebody please inform them that this is the year 2008, and that women are not just 'eye candy' any more.  Please?
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TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


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posted November 03, 2008 11:22 AM

Quote:
Since I am a person who always tries to see the best in people.

Except doctors, they are all members of the church of $$$$$$ cash dollaz $$$$$$

lol I don't think a ridiculous argument has ever angered me so much as this
this one takes nonsense to new levels



/offtopack

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