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MadeInChina278
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 12, 2005 09:23 AM |
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The Hamlet
Here's an idea that may make Heroes harder but also more interesting to play:
The Neutral Town (Hamlet)
Concept: In the world of Heroes, there are bound to be towns that are unaffliated with any alliance, faction, religion, etc. These towns are unspecialized towns. This "neutral" does NOT SIMPLY mean neutral as in "nonmagical."
Relevance to the game: During gameplay, any unconquered town unless otherwise specified will be a neutral town (or the "hamlet"). These towns have 10 building possibilities. The first is the thatched hut, which as you may have guessed, produces peasants at a rate of about 25 a week. This building can be built up to 3 times, which increases the peasant yield to about 75 a week. The second building is the shrine. The practicality of the shrine will be explained later. The third is the watchtower. The watchtower is the most primitive version of a castle but it cannot be upgraded to a fort (yet) and it does not increase the yield of peasants. However, it does create a single turret during sieges. The other 7 buildings serve special purposes that will be explained later also. These 7 buildings are:
1) The orchard
2) The guild of lores
3) The sacrificial crypt
4) The excavation site
5) The church
6) The mining cave
7) The blacksmith
Purpose: The hamlet is basically an uncivilized, dormant town with the potential to change into ANY of the 7 specialized towns. I am using the assumption here that Heroes 5 will employ the 6 basic towns: Inferno (demons), Castle/Haven (humans/life), Dungeon/Asylum (underground/chaos), Rampart/Preserve (nature), Necropolis (death), Tower/Academy (magic/order), and Stronghold (might/nonmagic). For simplicity, I will use the Heroes 3 names for all of these towns/factions.
How it is done:
The conversion of the hamlet involves the shrine and the 7 specialized buildings. The inclusion of the shrine in the game creates the addition of one extra resource in the game of Heroes: religion. Each specialized town (or faction) has their own religion and their god(s). Religion is a resource that will be utilized in the game in many ways, but it plays a crucial role in the conversion of the hamlet. It will be measured via piety (or favor) points.
The shrine generates 5 piety points a week. It also includes instructions from the gods in order to convert the hamlet into an inferno, haven, preserve, asylum, academy, or necropolis. In the case of the stronghold, a shrine will not be built, and the town relies on the instructions from the blacksmith, later to become the guild of war.
When a hamlet is captured, building the shrine automatically prevents the construction of the blacksmith. Do not confuse the blacksmith here with the war machine factories, etc. in previous Heroes games. The shrine at this point is a neutral shrine, containing advice from all the gods of all the factions. They all want you to construct one of the 6 specialized buildings (build the blacksmith to start the hamlet on the path to a stronghold). Here are the associations:
1) The orchard - Rampart
2) The guild of lores - Tower
3) The sacrificial crypt - Necropolis
4) The excavation site - Inferno
5) The church - Castle
6) The mining cave - Dungeon
7) The blacksmith – Stronghold
A hamlet can only eventually convert into one specialized town, but in the beginning you can choose to build two of the 7 buildings above. The exception is the blacksmith, which when built does not allow the construction of the shrine and thus prevents the construction of the other 6 buildings (notice that the path to a stronghold is much more direct). Building one of these specialized buildings costs resources but allows you to gain 5 piety points per building (for a max of 10). This generation is not weekly, however. The building of the building(s) allows the gods to give you additional instructions. Following these instructions have diverse effects on both piety and town contentment. Contentment is also a new feature added to a town, and it basically measures the happiness of the town’s people. Usually, piety and contentment are in conflict with each other… there is usually no way to satisfy both the gods and the people. Contentment is measured on a scale of 1-10, 10 being the happiest. Both low piety and low contentment has consequences (explained later) and your job will be to keep both in balance. The most basic of these instructions for each building are given below (with the consequences):
1) The orchard – grow 5 trees (which will be available “to build” but will cost resources)
- increases both the contentment of the hamlet town and generates 5 piety
- decreases contentment of the nearest allied town by 2
2) The guild of lores – recruit professors of magic (this stops the production of a 4th level or higher magical creature dwelling in another town for 2 weeks)
- increases both the contentment of the hamlet town and generates 5 piety points
- decreases the contentment of the town with the disabled dwelling by 3
3) The sacrificial crypt – kill the complete yield of 75 peasants for the next week
- decreases the contentment of the hamlet town by 3
- generates 5 piety points
4) The excavation site – recruit diggers (disable 2 out of the three peasant dwellings)
- decreases contentment of the hamlet town by 3
- generates 5 piety points
5) The church – convert the thatched huts (only one thatched hut may be converted per day)
- decreases the contentment of the hamlet town by 3
- generates 5 piety points
6) The mining cave – sacrifice 5 of all resources excluding ore and piety
- decreases the contentment of the hamlet town by 2
- generates 1 piety point
7) The blacksmith – sacrifice the construction of the shrine
- increases the contentment of the hamlet town by 4
(notice that there are no piety points awarded)
Contentment is usually lost through pleasing the gods, but it can be regained through the following ways:
- garrisoning creatures/heroes: the longer the garrison, the higher the contentment; ungarrisoned towns have neither gains or losses contentment (this is a sacrifice for the heroes’ armies but at the same time provides extra protection for towns)
- visiting heroes: more heroes that visit the town, the higher the contentment; however, each visiting hero takes away 2 piety points (the gods are threatened by the influence of the heroes)
- every extra building generates more contentment; however, this is limited because a town can only support a certain number of buildings; some buildings also require piety points to build
Note: Contentment is different from town to town; piety is universal.
Once the task is completed, the specialized buildings are allowed to undergo an upgrade (for a price of resources) This upgrade is then able to convert one of the thatched huts into a specialized dwelling (converting some of the peasants into special units that are as strong as peasants but have special magical properties). The construction of the blacksmith automatically converts one of the thatched huts into a specialized building producing level 1 units that are much stronger than peasants but have no magical properties. Eventually, once the hamlet fully changes into a specialized town, the specialized building associated with that town turns into the 1st level dwelling of that town while the second specialized building (remember you can build two in the beginning) may disappear or stay depending on if you upgrade it or not. Upgrading the second buildings will allow you to convert another thatched hut (the blacksmith being the exception). Here’s a simplified chart of what happens:
1) The orchard --> Enchanted Forest --> 1st level dwelling
- special unit can cast mass “bless”
2) The guild of lores --> Arcane Lore --> 1st level dwelling
- special unit can cast “lightning” doing 5 damage per unit
3) The sacrificial crypt --> Temple of Death --> 1st level dwelling
- special unit is undead can cast basic “animate dead”
4) The excavation site --> Mark of Baphomet --> 1st level dwelling
- special unit increases hero’s spell power by 2 per stack
5) The church --> Monastery --> 1st level dwelling
- special unit can cast mass “mirth”
6) The mining cave --> Cave of the Ancients --> 1st level dwelling
- special unit increases the hero’s spell points by 25% when present
7) The blacksmith --> 1st level dwelling
- special unit: Axemen
*Don't confuse the Monastery with the dwelling that produces monks. The dwelling that will generate monks may be changed to another name, like "cloister" or something.
Finally, the upgraded specialized buildings give you a choice of conversion (remember, in the beginning you can build two specialized buildings). By converting the hamlet, you choose to worship the god of one upgraded specialized building as a major god and the god of the other upgraded specialized building as a minor god. The major god simply serves to convert the hamlet. A converted hamlet (specialized town) generates 10 piety points per week instead of 5. However, the minor god of the second upgraded specialized building bestows special properties to the converted town (which I haven’t thought about thoroughly yet). Here’s an example:
You have a Monastery and the Cave of the Ancients. You choose to worship Celest, the god of the humans. Therefore, your town is converted into a Castle. However, you also have the Cave of the Ancients, and as a result your Castle town will worship Eptera, the goddess of the earth and the Dungeon, as a minor god and thus will receive some extra benefits that she provides, which in this case is increasing the town’s gold yield by 1000 per day.
If you choose not to build a second specialized building or choose not to upgrade it, the second building will disappear when the hamlet’s converted and you will receive the minor god benefits of your major god. Choosing what benefits to receive adds another layer of strategic thinking to the game.
Now I must explain the alternate uses of contentment and piety points. Like I’ve said above, piety points are used to build some buildings. However, they are also required to recruit the higher level creatures (such as angels) and also the special units of the hamlet. A piety point is a resource, and running low on them reduces the expansionary abilities of your towns.
Contentment is very important for the prosperity of any town and thus affects your prosperity. Discontented towns are likely to lose respect in your abilities and thus may relinquish your flag (yes, they can become “unclaimed” again). However, this will only happen when contentment reaches 0. But even if contentment is not at 0, discontented towns are also likely to defect, and thus if an enemy hero decides to attack that town, the town may simply give in without a fight, giving the enemy your garrisoned army. If a town’s contentment is above 5 before it is conquered by an enemy, the contentment of the town decreases by 2 after it is conquered. However, if the town’s contentment is below 5 before it is conquered, it’s contentment increases by 2 after it is conquered. If the town’s contentment is at 5, the contentment does not change at all after capture. The morale of your garrisoned troops are also affected by contentment, so be careful. If your town’s contentment reaches 10, however, the production of all dwellings increases by 25%. Gold production also increases by 25%.
Alright, that’s my basic idea. It most likely has kinks to work out, but I’d appreciate any feedback or suggestions. I’ll update my idea as necessary with your suggestions also.
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Conformity is only the work of an earlier nonconformist.
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a_rebirthing...
Supreme Hero
with rebirthing power
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posted June 12, 2005 09:43 AM |
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i didnt read it all but from what i read it sounds pretty good but why call it hamlet?
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'Tis better to rely on the the wit of your brain rather than the speed of your hands and mouse -me
Being happy isn't just an emotion, it's a choice!-Leo_Lion
It's Gortex!!!
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MadeInChina278
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 12, 2005 09:50 AM |
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A "hamlet" (not the dude Hamlet in those Shakespeare plays) is a town without any religious affliation (i.e. no church). I just thought it was appropriate.
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Conformity is only the work of an earlier nonconformist.
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted June 12, 2005 11:24 AM |
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Quote:
A "hamlet" (not the dude Hamlet in those Shakespeare plays) is a town without any religious affliation (i.e. no church). I just thought it was appropriate.
No, "hamlet" is a very small village.
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a_rebirthing...
Supreme Hero
with rebirthing power
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posted June 12, 2005 12:07 PM |
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indeed. i would call the place "neutroloplis"
has a nice ring to it dont ya think?
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'Tis better to rely on the the wit of your brain rather than the speed of your hands and mouse -me
Being happy isn't just an emotion, it's a choice!-Leo_Lion
It's Gortex!!!
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted June 12, 2005 12:19 PM |
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Doesn't the Greek 'polis' mean city or something?
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Yolk and God bless.
---
My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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a_rebirthing...
Supreme Hero
with rebirthing power
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posted June 12, 2005 12:28 PM |
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i have no idea. i just thought
neutral(what the whole thing is)-polis(from necropolis, just sounds good)= neutropolis
____________
'Tis better to rely on the the wit of your brain rather than the speed of your hands and mouse -me
Being happy isn't just an emotion, it's a choice!-Leo_Lion
It's Gortex!!!
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mr_niceguy
Famous Hero
of power
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posted June 12, 2005 12:35 PM |
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form the Maquarie Dictionary and thesaurus
Quote:
-polis a word element meaning city
but back on the subject, i think it sounds like a good idea even though i didn't read it all.
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a_rebirthing...
Supreme Hero
with rebirthing power
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posted June 12, 2005 12:40 PM |
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i wouldve posted this idea earlier or later
i very much doubt that ubi would add any totally new ideas at this stage of the game making process
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'Tis better to rely on the the wit of your brain rather than the speed of your hands and mouse -me
Being happy isn't just an emotion, it's a choice!-Leo_Lion
It's Gortex!!!
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MadeInChina278
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 12, 2005 06:47 PM |
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Ya, you're right. Ubisoft wouldn't add any more new ideas. But there always will be an H6. And I'm really going to try to submit this idea for future Heroes series if everything works out.
And yes, hamlet does literally mean a "small village" today, but only because religion is not as powerful today as it was in the Medieval era. In Medieval times, which is the time of Heroes, a hamlet has a negative meaning and people usually call a town a "hamlet" when that town has no church, as if saying that the people in the town are damned or lost without salvation (it's like either you're Christian or your condemned by society).
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Conformity is only the work of an earlier nonconformist.
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted June 13, 2005 09:52 AM |
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This is an interesting idea. Altough its a rather significant change u want to introduce there. Heroes hasnt dealt with things such as religion and population happiness before, but other games have and it functions there. I dont think this idea is about the Hamlet, as much as it is about these two new variables. I'm not too optimistic about the contentment however, because it involves town defection, garrisoning troops, +25% bonus for creature growth and gold production, and fundamentally alter the way the game is played.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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MadeInChina278
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 15, 2005 01:20 AM |
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Town happiness/Religion in Heroes
Ideas to regulate contentment is probably one of the toughest things for me to figure out. Garrisoning troops is only one idea that I have that MAY be used to regulate contentment, but not necessarily. And I can see how garrisoning troops may create a potential problem for contentment regulation also. Because towns cannot be specific to what creatures you garrison, players can generally garrison say, one hafling, and still experience a rise in town contentment despite the fact that the town is not well-guarded at all. So ya, the garrisoning idea is very flawed, but I think that some flawed plans put down is better than no plan at all. Can you think of any other way to regulate town happiness?
Ya, I also considered how much the game of Heroes would be changed with this hamlet/contentment/religion addition, but I think that the changes I've suggested are equivalent to the changes to the Heroes series when H4 came out. But ya, I know my ideas aren't perfect and thanks for pointing out some kinks Svarog. But the real question is would YOU play a game with these changes?
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Conformity is only the work of an earlier nonconformist.
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MadeInChina278
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 15, 2005 01:30 AM |
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And actually, although the major changes to the game are the contentment/religion factors, I was really just using them to make the Hamlet idea seem more interesting than it would be without contentment/religion. Basically, I thought of the hamlet because I think it would be nice to see how a pre-town can develop into a town even before that town develops into a uber-town.
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Conformity is only the work of an earlier nonconformist.
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted June 17, 2005 01:43 PM |
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Quote:
But the real question is would YOU play a game with these changes?
Yeah, pretty much, as long as its implemented in a fancy way. For example, i enjoy civilization III very much.
As for the pre-town concept it can be implemented under the current system as well. Imagine a common building (like the upgrade fort, eg.) where u choose which town u wish to upgrade (spawn), for the right sum of money, of course.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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MadeInChina278
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 18, 2005 06:28 AM |
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Ya, I think that might work also... I mean I'd still play the game no matter but I enjoy a little complicated gameplay.
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Conformity is only the work of an earlier nonconformist.
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MadeInChina278
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 18, 2005 06:30 AM |
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Quote:
Yeah, pretty much, as long as its implemented in a fancy way.
What fancy way do you suggest?
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Conformity is only the work of an earlier nonconformist.
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gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted June 22, 2005 01:53 PM |
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a thought about recruitable units:
wouldn't they be the nobles, vassals, citizens, etc, i.e. people with liability to serve in army when their lord calls them?
when you conquer a town, you either leave the local nobles to rule over the peasants or bring your own.
when demon town conquers a human town the demons might demand tax or replace some local nobles with demonic ones. they would just build a devil dwelling which would replace the angel dwelling.
maybe you would have to start rebuilding from the highest level dwelling if it exists or else build your own alignment dwelling on the free spot if the town is not fully built. i.e. maybe it would be better if the alignments wouldn't mix in a too chaotic way but there would be a split: local alignment troops cannot be higher than your own alignment troops.
somewhat like a creature choice between your own alignment and the local alignment.
if your alignment and local alignment are opposite alignments, the recruitment price of local alignment creatures would be higher the same way the tavern worked in homm4.
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btw there has been an idea of hamlets before, as far as i remember it was more like spots that could be upgraded to any castle type by building the fort. i.e. no creature production before building the fort.
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Axel
Hired Hero
Centaur Master
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posted August 31, 2005 09:54 PM |
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You ideea with this neutral town is pretty god but this would mean that the guys from ubi would have to make a town who isn't playabale so i don't think they will work so much to make a town who you can't play with. What's the deal with the ,,piety" ? Is it a new resource or what?
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted September 02, 2005 03:56 AM |
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Quote:
But there always will be an H6.
not if the world exploes! 
but seriously, this is a good town idea. i like the "neutropolis" name. if this does not get implemented, perhaps the makers of the H5 equivilant of Wog can make little builings like this!
Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to Library Of Enlightenment, to discuss Heroes 4, please go to War Room Of Axeoth, to discuss Heroes 5, go to Temple Of Ashan.
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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