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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: whats so bad about H4
Thread: whats so bad about H4 This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT»
a_rebirthing...
a_rebirthing_flight


Supreme Hero
with rebirthing power
posted June 24, 2005 10:43 AM

whats so bad about H4

ok tell me whats so bad about heroes 4 and i will try to prove u wrong.

keyword in above sentance: try
____________
'Tis better to rely on the the wit of your brain rather than the speed of your hands and mouse -me
Being happy isn't just an emotion, it's a choice!-Leo_Lion
It's Gortex!!!

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guitarguy
guitarguy


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Rockoon.
posted June 24, 2005 10:51 AM

This is not so much a challenge as it is an age-old complaint of mine.

H4 never had a demo version for the public to try (as far as I know). I feel this was a flawed decision on the developer's part. This is not just for H4 but for any game in general; there should be a "test" version to give wary gamers a taste of what to expect. This is particularly the case with those who need to be careful of what they buy because of limited budgets.

I know it's unfair not to give the game a chance just because there wasn't a demo, but that's just the way things played out for me, unfortunately.

-guitarguy
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a_rebirthing...
a_rebirthing_flight


Supreme Hero
with rebirthing power
posted June 24, 2005 11:02 AM

demos are useful but not always needed

i wasnt around when H4 was being made so ill use H5 as my example

with heroes 5 we have many screenshots which shows graphics, there are vidoes which show gameplay and interviews which reveal much.

also many ppl have access to the internet one way or another. they could very easily search for a review to inform them of what others think about the game. they could also search for a heroes forum and read reviews there aswell as joining up and asking if its worth getting.

i myself didnt really care much for demos when H4 was coming out and thus i bought the game with no other information other than it being a heroes game, and the fact that it came with H3 complete helped make my decision

is that good enough?
____________
'Tis better to rely on the the wit of your brain rather than the speed of your hands and mouse -me
Being happy isn't just an emotion, it's a choice!-Leo_Lion
It's Gortex!!!

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guitarguy
guitarguy


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Rockoon.
posted June 24, 2005 01:09 PM

Quote:
is that good enough?

I'll accept this as a reasonable answer from you, but I think my case won't be fully justified unless I personally receive an explanation from the game developer as to why they didn't demo H4. It's long overdue, don't you think?

Hmmm, raising hell is kinda fun.

-guitarguy
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a_rebirthing...
a_rebirthing_flight


Supreme Hero
with rebirthing power
posted June 24, 2005 03:01 PM

maybe they were so focused on making the game they didnt have enough time to make a demo

any more things u think are bad about heroes 4? anyone?
____________
'Tis better to rely on the the wit of your brain rather than the speed of your hands and mouse -me
Being happy isn't just an emotion, it's a choice!-Leo_Lion
It's Gortex!!!

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mr_niceguy
mr_niceguy


Famous Hero
of power
posted June 24, 2005 03:05 PM

not enough time to make a demo?

wouldnt it be easier to make a demo, all you have to do is take some stuff out then release it and write a little advertisement...
____________
a stich in time saves nine... what the hell does that mean?
If u enjoy telling ur friends of how uve never been beaten with ur own legs, u'd rethink making a comment

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a_rebirthing...
a_rebirthing_flight


Supreme Hero
with rebirthing power
posted June 24, 2005 03:12 PM

Quote:
not enough time to make a demo?

wouldnt it be easier to make a demo, all you have to do is take some stuff out then release it and write a little advertisement...


???????????????????

easier to make a demo????

what?

how would that be easier???

if anything it would be harder to make a demo

first u have to get the game file, take out almost everything in the game file as to only let the tester get a taste, then u have to advertise which costs money money and realise it.

now how can that be easier???
____________
'Tis better to rely on the the wit of your brain rather than the speed of your hands and mouse -me
Being happy isn't just an emotion, it's a choice!-Leo_Lion
It's Gortex!!!

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mr_niceguy
mr_niceguy


Famous Hero
of power
posted June 24, 2005 03:19 PM

um wouldnt it be easier to extract the parts you want in the demo rather than taking out everything you dont want in the demo...

and by advertisement i just mean a small note at the end of the demo saying something like
"if youd like to purchase this game call.....etc"

but i dont know i just say things that make sense to me but in reality make no sense whatsoever
____________
a stich in time saves nine... what the hell does that mean?
If u enjoy telling ur friends of how uve never been beaten with ur own legs, u'd rethink making a comment

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a_rebirthing...
a_rebirthing_flight


Supreme Hero
with rebirthing power
posted June 24, 2005 03:24 PM

well u could do that to get the demo but u would need to put time into this "note".

i mean if u got a demo and at the end there is this short note thats says "if u like the game by it on DD/MM/YYYY." even the oldest game demos have detailed add at the end.

ok now any questions about H4 the game? no more demos talk
____________
'Tis better to rely on the the wit of your brain rather than the speed of your hands and mouse -me
Being happy isn't just an emotion, it's a choice!-Leo_Lion
It's Gortex!!!

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a_rebirthing...
a_rebirthing_flight


Supreme Hero
with rebirthing power
posted June 27, 2005 08:42 AM

cmon guys

according to the response H4 is the best game out
____________
'Tis better to rely on the the wit of your brain rather than the speed of your hands and mouse -me
Being happy isn't just an emotion, it's a choice!-Leo_Lion
It's Gortex!!!

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MysticEyes
MysticEyes


Adventuring Hero
Take care: you'll be blind!
posted June 29, 2005 05:39 PM

Quote:
cmon guys

according to the response H4 is the best game out


I disagree.
I think H3 is much enjoyable about longevity.
It's much harder to win its compaigns because heroes cannot combat directly in the battlefields.
In H4 see Hexis's last compaign to understand what I mean! (5 heroes against hundreads of last level troops)

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a_rebirthing...
a_rebirthing_flight


Supreme Hero
with rebirthing power
posted June 29, 2005 11:58 PM

from what i have seen of H4 campaigns they have found ways around that. the hero is usually tucked away in some corner that is hard to get to or is raoming but very strong so it takes time to defeat him
____________
'Tis better to rely on the the wit of your brain rather than the speed of your hands and mouse -me
Being happy isn't just an emotion, it's a choice!-Leo_Lion
It's Gortex!!!

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Khayman
Khayman


Promising
Famous Hero
Underachiever
posted June 30, 2005 04:40 AM
Edited By: Khayman on 29 Jun 2005

Hmm...Where shall we begin?

Let's see...

Heroes 4 advertised a multi-player option, but failed to include this feature in the original release.  Release date purchasers and faithful Heroes fans had to wait for a multi-player patch to be released.  Nothing like waiting an extra few weeks to use an option that you had originally thought you were receiving.  Then...

That first multi-player patch was followed-up with at least two more patches within the first six months of release to correct numerous bugs and flaws within the game itself...

The problem was that 3DO was in such a hurry to get their product on the shelves that they forced the programmers to finish the game without properly playtesting it first.

Also, try to play the campaigns on the highest difficulty setting.  Some scenarios are literally 'Impossible' as a result of nobody playtesting this option.  On that note...

The Artificial Intelligence (AI) is even less rational than the AI in Heroes 3.  I would have rather retained the AI in Heroes 3 instead of changing.  Regardless, the Heroes 4 AI reacts the same (in my experience) on the higher difficulty settings, demonstrating the same lack of aggressiveness and easy predictability which is easily exploited by experienced players.  That is why...

I chose to uninstall Heroes 4 and revert back to Heroes 3.  Once I am through with the Heroes 3 campaigns, it is on to the Wake of Gods campaigns for this Hero, until Heroes 5 is released.

Just to prove that I am not all negative, I will admit that the best things about Heroes 4 are the graphics. Love those pesky little leprechauns with their cute tophats.  "They're always after me Lucky Charms!"  
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"You must gather your party before venturing forth."

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a_rebirthing...
a_rebirthing_flight


Supreme Hero
with rebirthing power
posted June 30, 2005 11:34 AM

ok, so u had to wait a few weeks to get playing but lets be realistic about that. would u start playing on the internet only a few weeks after purchase? i know i wouldnt. i would still be feeling my way around the game and learning about every aspect. i wouldnt feel confident ebough to go and play other ppl

as for the numerous bugs. to be perfectly honest, i found NONE when i played it, NONE. when i read the bugs on maphaven i was suprised that i hadnt noticed any. even then by the time u realize the problem u can just go and get the patch.

that was the best i could do
____________
'Tis better to rely on the the wit of your brain rather than the speed of your hands and mouse -me
Being happy isn't just an emotion, it's a choice!-Leo_Lion
It's Gortex!!!

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Ra2
Ra2


Adventuring Hero
The good doctor
posted July 01, 2005 10:34 AM

ever since the game hit the shelves, people complained a lot about HeroesIV. that's mainly because there were many expectations for what was to come after the Heroes3 masterpiece.
the veterans were first to complain but the tragedy is that soon after, it became trendy to bash Heroes IV for no/little reason. so every newcomer to the Heroes series thinks H4 sucks, at least in Romania.

most of them do not have reasons for this.
some of them do:

-no multiplayer at first release. I have to agree here. this was an outrage.
-no random map. since H3 had a random map generator which was warmly received by the fans, it was odd from 3DO not to think about this for H4.
-no Hero specialties. this was an interesting feature of heroes 3 that was replaced in H4 by classes for heroes. Imo hero classes are very interesting and strategic, but most of the H4 bashers think they suck. truth be told, many class bonuses are kind of stupid, like that vampiric melee attack going to the Dark Priest (magic hero), or the death ward bonus to the Palladin.
-no hex grid/movement shadow. sometimes the terrain/obstacles play tricks on you: troops get stuck / they take other routes you would think they would normally go. ground moving troops like the Dragon Golem or the Champion or the Hidra are sometimes difficult to use properly if you cannot see exactly how the unit moves.
-only 5 types of troops that you can recruit from a castle. moreover, the building choice has become standard and we don't see anymore: nagas(genies are far better). ogres (cyclops are the best thing the barbarian has), minotaurs etc.
-the skill tree / spell system has become truly complicated. beginners are lost in Heroes4, they have to play a lot to get the hang of it ond most of them just quit. heroes 2/3 were easier to play.
-the morale/luck sistem is now horrendously complicated. nobody knows anymore which troop moves first and why. this is annoying especially now when the hero is vulnerable and his presence on the battlefield is crucial.
-the story. people expected to see Gelu and Queen Catherine kicking ass again. Instead, heroes4 brought another set of heroes and lands... so many that the player just doesn't care anymore. As if this wasn't enough, the add-ons for H4 (WW and GS) had completely different storylines and heroes. Mongo and Erutan Revol.. oh please... enough already...

These are just a few usual complaints, the ones I myself found to be justified. I still think despite all the above, H4 is BETTER than H3.
Why? that's a completely different story

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VaRuAs
VaRuAs


Famous Hero
Only The Chosen Will Survive
posted July 01, 2005 10:40 AM

I just hate H4. And yet i have the game with me. I didn't find that cool in this game where i can i find in H3.So i vote for H3.
____________
Quote
Aculias: WHy did Minnie Mouse break up with Mickey?
Because he was F^%$^$g Goofey.
quote

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a_rebirthing...
a_rebirthing_flight


Supreme Hero
with rebirthing power
posted July 01, 2005 11:08 AM

Quote:
no multiplayer at first release


already explained

Quote:
no random map


look at it this way. if there is no map generator then we have to get maps from the fans and not let the computer do it.

Quote:
no Hero specialties. this was an interesting feature of heroes 3 that was replaced in H4 by classes for heroes. Imo hero classes are very interesting and strategic, but most of the H4 bashers think they suck. truth be told, many class bonuses are kind of stupid, like that vampiric melee attack going to the Dark Priest (magic hero), or the death ward bonus to the Palladin.


yes but with hero specialties there was a clear preference with some heroes over others. with no hero classes u get to customize ur hero just how u want them. with specialties u cannot do this. 1/4 of the skills are already picked.

there, for me, was another reason to scrap the specialties from HOMM. in some games in heroes 3 ur hero gets to a certain level then there are no more skills to learn. with no hero specialties he way was opened up to give heroes many more levels tp learn skills. i think it is like 70 something rather than around 25.

and that last bit u said was just opinion

Quote:
no hex grid/movement shadow. sometimes the terrain/obstacles play tricks on you: troops get stuck / they take other routes you would think they would normally go. ground moving troops like the Dragon Golem or the Champion or the Hidra are sometimes difficult to use properly if you cannot see exactly how the unit moves.


umm but i am pretty sure there is a hex grid

Quote:
only 5 types of troops that you can recruit from a castle. moreover, the building choice has become standard and we don't see anymore: nagas(genies are far better). ogres (cyclops are the best thing the barbarian has), minotaurs etc.


this has given HOMM the "choice". this already existed in disciples games and others but this is really giving the gamer more choice. some creatures far outway others at thier lvl but most have thier pros and cons. u said the naga is not seen. well if u have teleport than nagas are great.also ogres are useful if seperated. they are also decent fighters.

about there only being 5 creatures per town this is for 2 purposes. 1 to allow u to bring in other creatures, eg if u catch a town with golems and u built magi already. u can still include them in ur army. also this allows the second hero which is the new big thing in heroes 4

Quote:
the skill tree / spell system has become truly complicated. beginners are lost in Heroes4, they have to play a lot to get the hang of it ond most of them just quit. heroes 2/3 were easier to play.


well this was to give the veterans a more complex game. but still even if u are a beginner and u are new to heroes the system isnt hard to pick up. it is all explained with the right click

Quote:
the morale/luck sistem is now horrendously complicated. nobody knows anymore which troop moves first and why. this is annoying especially now when the hero is vulnerable and his presence on the battlefield is crucial.


well it wasnt hard to learn. it goes like this

morale is from minus 10 to +10. the creatures with high morale go first and thos woth bad morale go last. creatures with bad morale that wait go first and creatures with high morale that wait go last

luck is ranked the same just luck effects how much damage u inflict and recieve

Quote:
the story. people expected to see Gelu and Queen Catherine kicking ass again. Instead, heroes4 brought another set of heroes and lands... so many that the player just doesn't care anymore. As if this wasn't enough, the add-ons for H4 (WW and GS) had completely different storylines and heroes. Mongo and Erutan Revol.


why would anyone expect ppl to come back. H3 is the first time that heroes carry over maps so why would anyone expect them to carryover. there should be different story lines otherwise the game would get crap and nobody would like it. its just like a tv show that has done too many seasons.

hope that answers EVERYTHING, man that was long
____________
'Tis better to rely on the the wit of your brain rather than the speed of your hands and mouse -me
Being happy isn't just an emotion, it's a choice!-Leo_Lion
It's Gortex!!!

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Ra2
Ra2


Adventuring Hero
The good doctor
posted July 01, 2005 12:19 PM

Quote:
hope that answers EVERYTHING, man that was long


??? I didn't expect you to ANSWER EVERYTHING. who ever said you needed to?

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a_rebirthing...
a_rebirthing_flight


Supreme Hero
with rebirthing power
posted July 01, 2005 12:28 PM

man i need to convince ppl that H4 is better than they think. u provided problems and i rubuttled. now if they are brought up again they will be answered
____________
'Tis better to rely on the the wit of your brain rather than the speed of your hands and mouse -me
Being happy isn't just an emotion, it's a choice!-Leo_Lion
It's Gortex!!!

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a_rebirthing...
a_rebirthing_flight


Supreme Hero
with rebirthing power
posted July 03, 2005 03:22 AM

next question
____________
'Tis better to rely on the the wit of your brain rather than the speed of your hands and mouse -me
Being happy isn't just an emotion, it's a choice!-Leo_Lion
It's Gortex!!!

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