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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Hit and run
Thread: Hit and run This thread is 5 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT»
dimis
dimis


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
posted March 28, 2006 01:46 AM

Quote:
Only way to prevent such things (refering to use main hero for hit&run) is, NO flee in human fight.

Ok, one more question, because this rule is as if both main heroes always wear handcuffs. Suppose one player breaks earlier on a map and marches around with his ultra fast ArchAngels just to exploit better the time he has to collect the experience / artifacts (among others gold) and then go over to hack the other player. However, the second player breaks out a bit later and caches the main of the first player (who has cleaned up more than half of the treasure area so far and thus has enough gold in case of emergency). Does this mean that game is over for the first player, assuming that despite the better stats the first player has he is going to lose the fight because he will run out of hitpoints earlier and he can not retreat?
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Nebuka
Nebuka


Promising
Supreme Hero
Save me Jebus!
posted March 28, 2006 02:16 AM

That happened to me once. Or some more times.

Was caught with archies in middle, with rest of the army on scout.

And not only did opponent start saying blah blah, you can't run now, or now, even though I used only expert berserk, and I think he only moved once or twice whole battle thanks to moral, but he was also quite pissed at me using berserk. Poor lad. I recommend banning it, have to keep weak that great fire magic school.

I should very well cast bloody berserk, and even implo and surrender whenever I want, it was not me who attacked anyway. Plus, it was obvious I had no intent of hit and running anyone, had archies just for speed.

Yet, he still attacked me, couldn't wait for us to have both full armies, coz, that's quite honourable, yet being hit and surrendering isn't.
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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted March 28, 2006 02:18 AM

Perhaps i forgot to say....i donīt play with any of these mentioned rules. I play mostly for fun and donīt care for points...if someone thinks he should hit&run me to death and he has fun doing that, fine. I will say "Good game", report my loss, and prolly never play him again. Honorable players know what is ok and what not without making a rule for every little thing.

Just my 2 cents though...
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grendal
grendal


Adventuring Hero
posted March 28, 2006 02:29 AM
Edited by grendal on 27 Mar 2006

The whole idea of the no hit/run rule is to make it fair.  To me this rule only applies in round one.  If the attacker casts a spell, then he is required to stay around until the defender casts a spell.
The defender has the option of casting his spell and retreating right after it. So subsequent rounds are irrelevant. If he chooses to stay another round then the hit/run rule is gone. An attacker having a better spell than the defender is part of the game.

One spell each makes it fair.

sidenote

A defender with the fastest troop can cast a spell and retreat.  He never initiated the battle.
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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted March 28, 2006 04:52 AM

Hit & run is a simple definition.
When you engage battle & the faster hero attacks & runs before the other hero even gets one shot in.
Thats hit & run like when you attack a full army with one AA or AD etc & use a super power magic spell then run, thats cheap & hit & run.

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Zsa
Zsa


Famous Hero
posted March 28, 2006 07:45 AM
Edited by Zsa on 28 Mar 2006

Aculias hit the mark on the spot. That's the rule I always follow when playing the game (although I don't deliberately try to do hit and runs).

Maretti, what you do in the case when an opponent hits you round 1 and 2 with implosion and retreats is... suck it up . What do you do when your opponent attacks you with hack mass haste with rencanters, and large stack of ancient behes? Or just make it crag hack and haste and you got magic mirror in the guild (not talking about templates filled with topes here obviously)

The older accepted definition for the rule of hit and run was you cannot retreat if you cast an offensive spell until the opponent has gotten the chance to move. (what aculias posted) That's from what I remember anyway...

What's this 'you're not allowed to leave for 1 round bs'?

Here's an older thread on the topic if anyone doesn't know, or has the time to read.
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=38&pagenumber=1
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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted March 28, 2006 08:00 AM

To me as long as both heroes gets a chance to make a move in engaged combat then it's fair.
It's cheap when only one player gets a chance to kill creatures & escape before you can even click a button.
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LordLazy
LordLazy


Promising
Famous Hero
Wood cleaner
posted March 28, 2006 08:01 AM

I think it's important to remember that this rule were made mainly cos some people hit and ran, hit and ran, hit and ran, hit and ran and hit and ran Most players now dont know what the rules really were meant for. (I have actually asked myself if these players have brains that works correctly )

A defending part may use all the tricks that dumps into his minds. An attacker however shouldnt be able to attack and then just hit and run back home. It's actually just a matter of common sense.


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rychenroller
rychenroller


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted March 28, 2006 08:15 AM

There is no *one* rule for hit and run....should realize by now. No matter what you do, someone will snow and moan. The only way around it is what Dirk said. No flee in human fight. Its the only way to combat these situations unless of course you do the sensible thing...no rules that are open for different interpretations. No d/d is no d/d, no joiners is no joiners, no grail is no grail. No H/R, well what the hell is that anyway...you will never agree.



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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted March 28, 2006 11:42 AM
Edited by csarmi on 28 Mar 2006

Quote:
Hit & run is a simple definition.
When you engage battle & the faster hero attacks & runs before the other hero even gets one shot in.
Thats hit & run like when you attack a full army with one AA or AD etc & use a super power magic spell then run, thats cheap & hit & run.



Hm, so if I you have only one stack on the field, and I hit and blind you every turn I can then once out of spellpoints I run away, it's hit and run?

What about this one: if you retreat with a hero, you are not allowed to attack the same hero with it for 2 days (this one and the next). And you can hit and run ...
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maretti
maretti


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted March 28, 2006 01:14 PM

I still think there at least should be some code of honor about this isue like there is about town sitting.

Imo its not ok to attack a main hero (or place yourself in a position where he has to attack you) with a scout and take out troops even though you will only "hit" and not "run".

With your main its not ok to go into a battle (or place yourself in a position where he has to attck you) you know you cant win, with the purpose of reducing the opponents army and then run (no matter when you run). If you attack and it turns out you wont win you have to stay the round you use a damage spell. If you are attacked you also have to stay the round you use a damage spell. More could/should be added.

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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck

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dimis
dimis


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
posted March 28, 2006 02:23 PM

LordLazy once again speaks straight into my heart. Yet, I can not see his point of view on the border-lines of judging an act as Hit and Run which is the purpose of this thread.

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Xarfax111
Xarfax111


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
posted March 28, 2006 02:58 PM

Looks like a matter of taste....

...thats why i only play people, which i think have fun playing this game and NOT people, which think "i do everything as long as i win" (<--this is a definiton of a complete idiot, quite common for a high ranked TOH player).

In German league this Hit and Run rule was NEVER a problem. This community is just toooo small, that a player would behave like that. He would do it once and noone would ever play him again (=no wins NOOO high rank hehe). Problem solved.

Still our community made their thought too. Looks like Germans like to obey rules and therefore love to develope them (Germany alone does have 60% of tax law literature world wide).

Amongst the players we came to the following agreement.

"If you want to flee or surrender, just dont cause NOTEABLE DAMAGE before doing so"

...i think thats pretty simple. Still here will be some peeps that bow this rule to their advantage.

What i meant in my first post was, that you KNOW when you are doing a hit and run. Do you really need a definition for this sh*t? Those definitions are only for peeps that wants to break this rule. Like "i didnt hit and run, cause u attacked me"...lol, i thought that kind of idiot statements are dead already, or "i didnt hit and run, cause i did it second round"...lmao, common what a lame excuse here, hes sucked at that game IS going to lose and cant stand it and acts like an aswhole kid.

In my last games thread i asked several players for a game. Unfortunately i was very busy recently, but managed to play Tigris!! Wow ..that was enjoyable, nice and fair and fun. This dude is pretty cool.

If you cant act like an adult, please dont play me, dont waste my time.



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LKru33
LKru33


Promising
Famous Hero
3x NFL Pick'em Champ
posted March 28, 2006 03:29 PM

Quote:
you KNOW when you are doing a hit and run. Do you really need a definition for this sh*t? Those definitions are only for peeps that wants to break this rule. Like

"i didnt hit and run, cause u attacked me"...lol,

i thought that kind of idiot statements are dead already, or

"i didnt hit and run, cause i did it second round"...lmao,

common what a lame excuse here, hes sucked at that game IS going to lose and cant stand it and acts like an aswhole kid.


Wow, am I glad to see there are some people that feel the same way I do.  Was comical when I tried to explain this exact case in the Gamespy lobby and comments were flying back at me....

"But you attacked him"... "It was 3rd round, not first round"...

I was so frustrated that everyone supported this type of play, that I felt like changing my play style and throw all these tactics out the window.  

I agree 100% with Maretti and Xarfax on this issue.  

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dimis
dimis


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
posted March 28, 2006 03:34 PM
Edited by dimis on 28 Mar 2006

Quote:
Imo its not ok to attack a main hero (or place yourself in a position where he has to attack you) with a scout and take out troops even though you will only "hit" and not "run".

Well, I certainly not agree with that since the hero of the defender will be lost after this. Moreover defending troops will be lost. And I think it is quite common to accept one fast scouter as visitor when you enter your opponents area so that the defender knows what are your army's exact numbers. After all you can suicide one scouter for the exact same reason when attacking. But doing so with more than one scouters I agree with you that it is very irritating and I am against.
One more: I also agree that you should not place your hero in a place where the opponent has to attack you.
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maretti
maretti


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted March 28, 2006 03:50 PM

So the following senario is np?:

You play extreme and find 3 lvl 30 magic heroes, one of them has scolar, you also find a box with all fire spells. Then you attack or gets attacked with all 3 heroes all having 7 dragon flies on them, and cast arma with all 3.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck

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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted March 28, 2006 03:51 PM

OK..how about this: (happened just yesterday)

2vs2 fun game. 2 minutes natives. All random.
Guy with Dungeon army meets guy with Castle army offguard (only AAīs and champs). After more than 10 hours of playing, Dungeon guy decides to attack the Castle guy in the hope of an easy win (scout with rest of army was nearby). He casts implo first round and implo second round, both with a damage of 1400. Castle guy has nothing left but 3 AAīs. Castle guy has only level 1 spells. In round 3, he casts magic arrow (with 120 damage) on minotaurs and surrenders. Hit and run?

Castle guys turn. For the matter of fact, the ally (Rampart) won his fight vs other opponent (Castle) in first meeting in desert (also surrendered), Castle guy decides to get the rest of his army and attack the Dungeon guy. First round dungeon guy implodes crusaders, all dead. Second round chainlightning, 85% of the rest also dead. Third round he waits with 2 blacks and about 40 evil eyes left, Castle guy (only some pikes, balista and 1 zealot left) casts magic arrow (120 damage) on evil eyes and surrenders. Hit and run?

Next turn (day 1 week 5), Dungeon guy takes Castle guys main town, buys! 1 Archangel (new week) and some marksmen and attacks Castle guys main hero again (with second dungeon hero who townportaled to new town and took army from main). First round, Castle guy casts icebolt on AAīs (300 damage). Dungeon guy casts lightning on pikes and attacks rest of army. 2nd round, blackies attack pikes, canīt kill all. Castle guys turn (zealot). He casts icebolt on evileyes and surrenders again (Dungeon guy didnīt cast on start of 2nd turn, even though he had the possibility). Hit and run?

Meanwhile the Castle guys ally (Rampart) has attacked Dungeon guys ally (Castle) again and has beaten him and got all his arties and his main town.
Dungeon guy left the game now, coz he was tired of getting hit&run 4 times in a row....

Would be interesting to hear your opinions about that.

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dimis
dimis


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
posted March 28, 2006 04:03 PM

Quote:
So the following senario is np?:

You play extreme and find 3 lvl 30 magic heroes, one of them has scolar, you also find a box with all fire spells. Then you attack or gets attacked with all 3 heroes all having 7 dragon flies on them, and cast arma with all 3.
No, this scenario is indeed problematic and I do not consider it as a visit to "view my army and spellpoints".

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Dark_Y0uth
Dark_Y0uth


Hired Hero
posted March 28, 2006 04:14 PM

I think it is rash dungeon`s attaks. No H&R!

And for that:
"Honorable players know what is ok and what not without making a rule for every little thing."

congrats!

Just sadly, cuz they are too little.
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LKru33
LKru33


Promising
Famous Hero
3x NFL Pick'em Champ
posted March 28, 2006 04:14 PM

Well my view on that scenario is this:

It can be viewed as a hit and run, but most likely would be overlooked or let go since a 120 damage magic arrow will only take out a couple fodder units at best. This will surely not decimate the other players army with 1 spell. Not sure what a person in that situation would get out of casting magic arrow anyways.  

Hopefully common sense would kick in and the understanding of the difference between a 120 dmg magic arrow and a 2000+ dmg implosion would be realized.  When 1 spell takes out 1/4 of your entire army, it is much easier to retreat and repeat with a select group of units until the job is complete.  

Obviously in this case, the persons intention was NOT to go back and recover spell points to return with another magic arrow in hopes of wiping out his entire army eventually.  If we are to get technical, sure, call it a hit and run... but I seriously doubt the person on the other side (even if he considered it a hit and run) would bother wasting the time of a reload over losing a few trogs.  
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