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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Hit and run
Thread: Hit and run This thread is 5 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT»
Xarfax111
Xarfax111


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
posted March 28, 2006 05:38 PM

@angelito = "NOTEABLE DAMAGE"

120 magic arrow is not really noteable.

In the old days peeps bowed the hit and run rule also the other way around: Simply entering opponents area unprepared, cause when they got attacked they could give lame rule excuses. Pah.

Same did people do with day1 rush rule...lol

Or castle sit rule...lol

If you s*ck you can bow every rule to your favour, still you do know what you do.
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Russ
Russ


Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
posted March 28, 2006 06:01 PM
Edited by Russ on 28 Mar 2006

Quote:
Perhaps i forgot to say....i donīt play with any of these mentioned rules. I play mostly for fun and donīt care for points...if someone thinks he should hit&run me to death and he has fun doing that, fine. I will say "Good game", report my loss, and prolly never play him again. Honorable players know what is ok and what not without making a rule for every little thing.

Just my 2 cents though...
Yet another proof that Xarfax's h&r rule is the best

Angelito - Regarding your game - that dungeon guy just used an excuse to avoid losing. Some people do that. That's all there is to it. I wouldn't recommend playing him again. In my last game the map had 2 levels (this happens sometimes even when you choose no under option). He said "2 levels. res." and left the game. I found it very strange because just about everyone else I've played has stayed or at least discussed it before restarting. Well, I've looked at his side and I saw that on day 2 he had rampart with 5 wood, no wood mine in sight and Ivor was set to attack a horde of critters that would most likely kill him. I guess the Theives guild didn't look good either (Alamar was holding my main's army at the time). He desperately looked for an excuse to avoid losing and he found one. Good for him. Now he won't have to report a loss.
Quote:
"Honorable players know what is ok and what not without making a rule for every little thing."
Nice one - this is what I use in all of my games. I follow FMG rule religiously even if noone mentions it and if there is something that I think may be considered lame or dishonorable, I ask first and if I am told that I can't do it, I won't.

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maretti
maretti


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted March 28, 2006 06:10 PM

I think that Xarfaxs rule about "NOTEABLE DAMAGE" for main heroes is very usefull and could be used in most cases. Ofcourse there will allways be a gray area where its hard to determine whether we are talking noteable damage or not.

I wouldnt call the magic arrow senario a hit and run. The proportions just dont match.
____________
Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck

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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted March 28, 2006 06:41 PM

Btw...i was the Castle guy...and the Dungeon guy was a (former) TOH emperor..

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supersonic
supersonic


Famous Hero
being digested. E=mc^2, s=vt
posted March 28, 2006 07:05 PM
Edited by supersonic on 28 Mar 2006

Hit And Run (or H&R)

Although there are many variants of the hit and run tactic, the main dedfinition is simple: hit and run (smart). It doesn't matter, whether you are hitting with stack of powerful creatures, or with a powerful spell. The idea is to hit and get get hit back, so that you batter the opponents hero and not get really hurt.

Variant 1: Hit him with an implo, dude!
One of the most common variants. A good magic scout with a fast unit and a spell that deals much damage, attacks a hero. A spell is cast, so that the opponent is badly hit, while you click on the magic button "retreat" or "flee", and you respawn in the castle. Efficient, if you have much money and spellpoints.

Variant 2: Archangels hit hard and fast, master.
Also a common one. When you have a powerful and a quick unit (like an archangel), you divide that stack on 2, so that one stack is x - 1, while the second is 1. You attack and hit him with the powerful stack, dealing damage and only taking retaliation. Then it's the second creature's turn. Time for "retreat" or "flee"

Variant 3: From the castle walls!
Not a common one, doesn't work with the latest patch, I think. It is basically variant 1, but you respawn in a castle close to your opponent, hit him, respawn, hit him and so forth.

Variant 4: Black Dragons are good on everything
Also not very common. Used by dungeon players, who have lots of Spell Power and Black dragons with immunity. It is a variation of variant 1. You attack, BDs go first and you cast a mighty armaggedon. Everything is hit really badly (sometimes you wipe out half of his army), while aren't badly hit, just respawn in the town and wait for him to attack it. You're gonna cast it again... >

Variant 5: Why an Archangel?
Quite a common one. A variation on variant 2. Instead of splitting archangels' stack, you take another fast creature (dragon fly, griffin), so that you gain more firepower.

Variant 6: Kreegans hit badly
Uncommon one, since not many play inferno. It is a variation on variant 2. Instead of Archangel, or other bad hitter, you take the Archdevil. With his no retaliation ability, clicking on retreat button will leave you with no casualities.

Variant 7: Bye, bye!
Encountered really rare. A variation on variant 4.  You hit his army with armageddon or chain lightning so hard, that you wipe out his whole army. New players often lose that way.

I encountered all of these, during multiplayer games.

Although efficient, Hit and Run tactics is seen by many as dishonourable. By taking the advantage of fast creatures, you wipe out his army (sometimes all of it).
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Big, fat, naughty. Potential girlfriend - pm me.

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Russ
Russ


Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
posted March 28, 2006 07:48 PM

Quote:
Btw...i was the Castle guy...and the Dungeon guy was a (former) TOH emperor..
Well, duh! How do you think he got his emperor title?

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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted March 29, 2006 06:12 AM

WHy do you even have to ask Maretti, you should know if a move is vheap or not.
Flies with Armeggeddon is just a wuss way to play, just like the wrait bomb & catapult killing while sitting in a castle etc.
Exactly what we are talking about with players who will bend the rules just enough to get away with a win & they will do whatever it takes.
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Dreaming of a Better World

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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted March 29, 2006 07:45 AM

Of course they do. The aim of the game is victory, that's why you have to fix the rules correctly.

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Zsa
Zsa


Famous Hero
posted March 29, 2006 08:52 AM

Quote:
WHy do you even have to ask Maretti, you should know if a move is vheap or not.
Flies with Armeggeddon is just a wuss way to play, just like the wrait bomb & catapult killing while sitting in a castle etc.
Exactly what we are talking about with players who will bend the rules just enough to get away with a win & they will do whatever it takes.


How is wraith bomb a wuss way to play. I thought it was a brilliant idea for the person who first did it
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"You sound like zsa who only plays the game on forums" - Russ

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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted March 29, 2006 10:46 AM

Of course but not for Pandy
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Dreaming of a Better World

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matkov
matkov


Hired Hero
posted March 29, 2006 10:50 AM
Edited by matkov on 29 Mar 2006

At first take my reply with reserve because I do not have experience about online gaming. I watch this discussion with great interest because I want to play online in short time.

I see many people whininng here that AI is too stupid but on the other side I see forbidding almost every strategy that diferences computer opponent from human. No wonder that might heroes are much stronger to magic ones when you forbid hit and run. If it would be OK than magic ones will be much worth.

I'm honorable player and I never use any cheats or something like that. I understand need of no necro/conflux. Also red rush. Also forbiding DD and fly because of great impact of pure luck. And also diplomacy.

Please explain me this a bit, because now I have feeling that all online gaming is just about playing against map with just one final combat with human instead of computer.

To the dungeon vs. Castle I think that everything was ok.

I'm sorry if this is off topic.

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lkru33
lkru33


Promising
Famous Hero
3x NFL Pick'em Champ
posted March 29, 2006 02:52 PM

Quote:
WHy do you even have to ask Maretti, you should know if a move is vheap or not.
Flies with Armeggeddon is just a wuss way to play, just like the wrait bomb & catapult killing while sitting in a castle etc.
Exactly what we are talking about with players who will bend the rules just enough to get away with a win & they will do whatever it takes.


I believe when playing against players such as yourself Manuel, people won't have to ask or clarify anything... but when playing against unknowns, it is nice to have a clear cut definition of a rule if that rule is agreeded upon in the game.  Simply saying "just don't play that person anymore" is not a good solution. 6-8 hours for some people isn't just a short amount of time that can be wasted for nothing. When I look up a player on toh, I take a look at what maps a person plays, etc... but most importantly WHO this person plays against.  If I see that a person has played against several players that are honorable in my eyes, I will proceed with the game.  

Ex. No Fly means no fly... but you can bet some would use the ol' "I thought you meant no CASTING the spell fly, I don't see what is wrong using angel wings" bs.  
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Russ
Russ


Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
posted March 29, 2006 05:40 PM
Edited by Russ on 29 Mar 2006

Btw, about this whole "don't retreat after causing NOTEABLE DAMAGE" thing...
Suppose you unload your army on a scout for speed in a relatively safe area. Your opponent does his homework well, carefully studying your position on each turn on his 2-nd computer and times it so that he catches you without your full army. He then kills 1/2 of your scout's army with his main (due to scout's low stats), but when you try to fight back with whatever you have left or cast a spell, he tells you that now you cannot retreat since "you did damage". Then he attacks your main, gangs up on your most powerful stack, implos it, then when it is your turn, he lets you know that you can't cast implo, chain, or even fight back and then retreat.
According to the most h&r definitions you would be doing h&r in this case. So, would it be fair for your opponent to destroy most of your army without a single casualty, or should you get a chance to defend yourself in the only way possible?

Edit: removed TOH emperor references

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supersonic
supersonic


Famous Hero
being digested. E=mc^2, s=vt
posted March 29, 2006 06:19 PM

Defend yourself. Hit and run is acceptable. Everytime, everywhere.

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Xarfax111
Xarfax111


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
posted March 29, 2006 09:56 PM

Quote:
Defend yourself. Hit and run is acceptable. Everytime, everywhere.


Lol...this is the lamest attempt to put oil into fire...lmao
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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted March 30, 2006 04:35 AM

Hehe I meant Why does he have to ask a definition on Hit & run Lee .
Every player knows when a move is cheap or not & every player knows the rules, it depends how a player wants to bend it just a little or play without the cutthroat
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Dreaming of a Better World

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dimis
dimis


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
posted March 30, 2006 09:05 PM

"Quoting myself"

Quote:
Quote:
So the following senario is np?:

You play extreme and find 3 lvl 30 magic heroes, one of them has scolar, you also find a box with all fire spells. Then you attack or gets attacked with all 3 heroes all having 7 dragon flies on them, and cast arma with all 3.
No, this scenario is indeed problematic and I do not consider it as a visit to "view my army and spellpoints".

I also think however that whichever generator allows these kinds of scenarios is problematic as well. Perhaps I am just alone around here, but I must admit that I've not seen a good generator for a random 2vs2 game (I 've not tested Angelito's Fiesta yet, so this one is excluded at the moment + it is not final). And just a thought for you who play those generators: Perhaps, new threads should be made so that specific rules can be discussed for each one of these generators. I think a discussion for the manipulation of the above scenario and similar scenarios would benefit alot the whole online-gaming-community, plus scenarios can be realistic for each one of the generators based on veterans' experience. After all, although online gaming is not so hot as it used to be, yet, new members still join the club daily. I mean, perhaps specializing on each particular case (generator), rules and examples can be refined. And for that direction, Angelito's help I think is priceless; since with his experience these threads can stay clean from spamming + I think this is a job he will enjoy.
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The empty set

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Zsa
Zsa


Famous Hero
posted March 31, 2006 07:00 AM

There's already random map template reviews thread. People can contribute there, as it is a pretty useful idea imo as to the style of the template and the suggested rules for each template.


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"You sound like zsa who only plays the game on forums" - Russ

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dimis
dimis


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
posted March 31, 2006 03:17 PM

Stay here then

Quote:
There's already random map template reviews thread. People can contribute there, as it is a pretty useful idea imo as to the style of the template and the suggested rules for each template.



I don't support this idea, because the 2 threads that do exist for template reviews, are just for that: reviews. However, this is something different, so if they fall all in the same thread, perhaps the best place for them to be is here. I am afraid that if these 2 topics mix, then we 'll end up with a thread that might be difficult for someone to find out what he really wants. I mean, in such a scenario these 2 threads would be spammed with respect to their title (exactly what I do right now on this thread - sorry Maretti).

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maretti
maretti


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted February 05, 2007 06:05 PM

I would like some comments on this suggestion to the hit and run rule I came up with:

"Fleeing or surendering from combat is not allowed for the first x rounds if you have done more damage to your opponent than he has done to you. Futhermore you are not allowed to sacrifice any hero with the purpose of reducing the opponents army."

Please give exampels of situations where this rule wont be good nomatter how many rounds x is.
____________
Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck

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