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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Heroes 5 Strategy: Playing Inferno Faction
Thread: Heroes 5 Strategy: Playing Inferno Faction This thread is 30 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 10 20 ... 26 27 28 29 30 · «PREV / NEXT»
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Tastes like chicken
posted July 25, 2016 11:22 AM

Friendly or not, heroic neutral sizes are overkill though. Delaying a mercury/sulfur or gold mine by a week or more due to nasty neutrals hurts a lot. Certainly difficulty only magnifies an existing problem but the difference will more likely mean not flag something important ratherthan just have more losses than expected.

Good analysis at any rate. A pity destructive is bad for inferno, it would have been a fun creeping alternative had it been viable.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 25, 2016 11:37 AM

Thanks. When I was still playing H5 I played the random/heroic combo often in SP (losing against the AI a decent percentage of my games), and in that constellation a lot depends on getting a playable hero. You can obviously do that in SP, it's kind of a handicap, but in a (friendly) MP I would suggest to pick BOTH town and starting hero, when playing Heroic OR not playing heroic.

If you insist on both, at least allow both players a mulligan (which is problematic, though, because a mulligan for one means one for both).

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zaio-baio
zaio-baio


Promising
Famous Hero
posted July 25, 2016 01:37 PM

So, padawan frostish, your friend starts with Sylvan + Ossir and you go Inferno + random hero like a pro Its good to point out that sylvan will have trouble developing on heroic diff with any other hero but Ossir. Also what map are u playing ? Is it rmg or is it Ubi map ? That picture u posted with a shipyard guarded by lots of high druids reminds me of the map "Double confrontation". Is that the map ?

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 25, 2016 01:57 PM

Why does he start with Ossir? They both play random.

I mean, it's worth to point out that if you play random heroes on heroic the game changes a lot, because you simply have to work with what you find - which means, both sides will not be able to produce the best development/builds possible.

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frostysh
frostysh


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
posted July 25, 2016 08:00 PM
Edited by frostysh at 22:59, 25 Jul 2016.

JollyJoker - Thanx, I will copy-past your The Heroes of Inferno explanation for myself.

I am usually trying to avoid a 'crazy attacks' by myself, but sometimes I just cannot, i.e. ~(50-100) Master Gremlin protecting the Ore Mine.


I do not like how it is looks like, but anyway. . .
The Grawl ransoming for me a few times, when we played against AI. This is superior hero!
I have used the "hit-and-run + War Banner" tactics against (25-30)x4_stack of upgraded Zombies!
And I used the next tactics against (25-25)x3_stack Crossbowmans

I have found their location by my support hero (there was Daleb, I just do not that she is so powerful and transported her ballista to Grawl ).
Then I left 10 Dogs in the town, and in the army was only 3 Dogs, Horned Demons, and Upgraded Imps.

I have splited the 3x Dogs into 3 stacks x 1 Dog . Also I have a few stacks of (2-3)xVermin, the main army of Vermins I left out of battle, because starting the battle against shooters with you Vermins usually = say goodby to a 1-few week-summons of them.
My main attacking power was "Magic Arrow" and Horned Demons.
But sometime I forgot about archers movement range, and then my Horned Demons has been attacked in the close range (they alway attacks the main stacks, not the gate summoned ones).
The main point is: You must block the enemy archers minimum byt two blockers, because if only one blocker will be that is usually means the blocker will be killed by neighborhood archer in close range combat, and on the next move unlocked archer will make a shoot. . .  

Hell Gate of spitted stacks + + + Fast offense of spitted stacks + + + main stack + + + VS

About the RANDOM: I am always picking the random Hero, and random bonus, ma' friend tried to pick it sometime, but when he have obtained non-Ossir hero by Sylvan, after his first fight we must to made a restart of the game .  
Actually I do not want to play against him, but he saw how I am weak with Inferno compared to his overpowered Ossir-Sylvan (and that because he think that he will easily have a victory against me ), when we played against 2xAI allies on Heroic, and the usually the AL comes and kicked myself army, but not my friend's army , so usually he just fighting against monsters, then AI comes for my assists, then he wait untill AI defeat me in a long battle..., and then Game Over, and restart . So perhaps he is too bothered for it ... .
So I think he will pick Ossir, he will not play RANDOM-hero ...  

mulligan - What is that means? O.o

Elvin - I know that "Heroic" is a main problem of my games, but I cannot change the difficulty.
I have the experiance with Destructive Magic in my games for Inferno - this is obviously most of the better magic that I saw.

= = = > 10x OR 3x defeated per move of Hero!

This is means a lot in the battles!

zaio-baio - Oh the Greatest of the greats , or whatever..

The map looks like a 4x Islands, on the North-East is a Winter Island, on the South-West is a grass-like Island. I have no idea how the map is actually name, because I have a Rossian language version of "Heroes 5" with a crazy translation names there
I am playing on "Heroic/Random" not because I want to feel like "pro", I am actually do not playing in Multiplayer usually (because of my poor internet connection and just because I prefer the Machine AI opponents ), I have finish the many game on the maximum difficulty setting - this is some-kind of ma' way in the PC-Game Virtual World.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
posted July 26, 2016 10:47 AM

Excellent posts @Zaio and JJ, I recommend shinies for both.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Tastes like chicken
posted July 26, 2016 11:06 AM

frostysh said:
zaio-baio - Oh the Greatest of the greats , or whatever..

Also a penalty here for indirect provocation.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 26, 2016 12:12 PM

I'd like to add something to Grawl, since the guy seems to need further clarification.

If you just look at him and his army, at any time he's a good buy - except in week 1 -, and I've spent quite some time with him, trying to work out why he doesn't work out as a starting hero.

1) His special has no immediate consequence. 5% more damage for hell hounds and 2.5% less damage against them is inconsequential, as is +10/5. Of course, once he's level 20 Cerberi will be quite formidable, but the problem is getting there.

2) You cannot do anything fast to make his troops better; neither can you build Kennels immediately in order to increase the number of Hell Hounds and thereby the potential first-strike damage output, nor can you upgrade them once you have built them without serious Wood pickings plus a Sulfur find and safe supply (however, should you be able to, finding Grawl in the Tavern at the beginning of week 2 is a lot better, because THEN he'll give you a lot of options).
Instead, what you don't get are 20 or so Imps - which you CAN immediately make better and support and which have, once (cheaply and fast) upgraded a mich higher damage output than the Hell Hounds (you should have around 60 of them with an average 150 damage output versus a good dozen with about 60 or so damage output)

3) He starts with Adv. Destructive. So you need spells, right? Stone Spikes will be a disappoinment, though. Even if he gets a 2nd point of Power fast, Stone Spikes won't do more than 56 points of damage to a unit - true, once in a while you can hit two stacks, but it's highly situational. With Eldritch Arrow it's 80 points which is good - but it's still only 16 more damage than an UNSKILLED hero (that is, a different Inferno hero), and no matter the Power gain, the additional damage will always be only 16 more (or 24 should Grawl pick Exp. Destr.). See that? You didn't need to waste two upgrade points to cast a destructive spell with good effect.
There is a very real temptation, then, to go for Level 2 MG, again, HOPING for Ice Bolt, but of course with the chance to get Lightning, which would be a serious problem, since you won't do much damage with that one: Adv. Dest. + Power 2 = 51 damage. Ice Bolt would do 108 damage, although for 6 spell points instead of 4 ... so the only incentive will be picking Master of Ice.

Do you see the problem here? Grawl is tempting you to invest into things that are DOUBTFUL to gain, and once started, may more or less force you to follow a losing road. If you build MG 1 with one of the good heroes, you simply pick up the Destructive spell. If it's Arrow, fine, immediatel 56 damage for 4 points (and 64, when you get a second one). Without doing more than build the MG. If it's Spikes, no problem either; only 32(40) damage, but, again, you didn't invest anything in terms of hero levels.

4) You cannot gate Hell Hounds without picking Adv. Gating. Now take a look at the Gating abilities.
a) Mark of the Damned; once done, this triggers a hero attack on an attacking casting or retaliating enemy unit. Since this wastes a hero action (that Grawl should use to cast a spell with Adv. Destructive) it makes sense only to cast on units that will OFTEN (at least twice) retaliate, attack or cast - which is obviously something you don't want, (except in rare cases when there is a row of gated units that are attacked each turn or something like that). So with Grawl you don't want that (in the beginning when you are fragile, at least).
b) Hellfire. That is depleting your mana - which is good, when you don't have spells you can use, but bad, when you have Adv. Destructive and actually want to cast spells and not lose Mana because Hellfire triggers when a lone gated Demon hits something. So with Grawl you don't want that either!
c) Consume Corpse. Now, that one is fine, especially for Grawl, and especially when he gets spells (obviously).

So do you see the problem here? You start with Adv. Destructive crying for a Destructive spell and the Consume Corpse ability (because that's good synergy for 1 build and 1 upgrade point spent) - but you also have to spend a point for Adv. Gating, because otherwise you cannot gate Dogs, but you have the problem that this will clutter your ability choices with unwanted Gating abilities instead of useful stuff.
With any other hero I CAN gate my main troops immediately, can simply pick Consume Corpse - and exclude the Gating abilities from cluttering my picking options. Leading to:

5) Your upgrade picks are likely to be awkward, because once you pick Adv. Gating, abilitiy picks will be full of unwanted stuff like Master of Lightning and Hellfire; in skills you may have to pick between Exp. Destructive and, say, Luck, and so on.

Bottom line is, Grawl is a fraud.
It took me a long and painful time to realize that more often than not you'll find yourself in a dead end, should you rely on him as your main weapon.

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frostysh
frostysh


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
posted July 26, 2016 08:00 PM
Edited by frostysh at 20:03, 26 Jul 2016.

Elvin -
zaio-baio said:
Young padawan frostysh, pick Deleb! . . .

zaio-baio said:
So, padawan frostish . . .

If there padawan exist, perhpas must be his/her master too!
The "The Greatest of the greats" - is just a way to give a honor from padawan to his/her master .
I think that your mr/mrs Elvin, just drink too much of coffee. I am joking, there was no provocation .

JollyJoker -

I do not known, perhaps I am too noobish, but anyway I have with Grawl a much more easier game that with Marbas i.e.

1st day - Building Hero Hiring Place. there hiring Daleb i.e., then transporting the Ballista from Daleb, and her soldiers to Grawl's army.

Then Daleb is exploring the Map. If you can find a Zombies! (the all upgrades included), or the any other low range/initiative close combat soldiers, you must left the Ballista in the Daleb army and attack the Zombies! with Grawl's army!

the "Hit-and-run"  = = = >  your victory without loses. 1-2 level ups, I usually pick Attack/Defense.

2nd day - building the Imp's Barracks, and with little bit more numbers of Imps in the Grawl army, and with Ballista there we trying to defeat the Mine Guardians. There will be a hardcore battles, you must predict you moves on the few times in future... Or you will lose your army.
If the thing going well you will get some level up, I am usually picking Logistic there, The Logistic is useful in the lot of water surface maps, on in the terrain like a Snow which is a very hardcore for Inferno factions..

3rd day you have Ore and Wooden Mine, and the time to build the Magic Guild level 1! And now you can defeat the monsters like a Croossbowman! (20-50) of Crossbowman can be defeated with Destructive and 3 suicidal Dogs + suicidal Imps + main army of Horned Demons.. Imps is a bad idea for this battle, I prefer to not use the main army of Imps vs Ranger attacks.

But I have hell no idea how to deal with Guardians of a Gold Mine, i.e. they usually is a too tough .

In the end my Grawls general was :
Hell Gate Reinforcements, Destructive Magic, Attack, Defense, Logistic, Light Magic - not so bad .

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frostysh
frostysh


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
posted July 28, 2016 10:52 PM
Edited by frostysh at 23:01, 28 Jul 2016.

Is there any good strategy in the game for Nebiros



Against Dougal



??
Nebiros has a next skills.

, ,

The map is small, for two players only, the difficulty is "Heroic".
I think Defense  = = = > Evasion will be good? And perhaps the fast Hounds into village to conquer a heavy guardians like Zombies!?
But what about the Magic? I think the Light Magic will be great.

Day 1: Magic Guild building, and recruit the Grok for a map management, Nebiros' Army have a two victories -

48x and 54x

With ~6 Imp, and ~8 Horned Demons loses.

Day 2: The Blacksmith has been build.

Is there any good strategy ?

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Tastes like chicken
posted July 28, 2016 11:08 PM

Yes, L2P
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Being human is a roller coaster ride of emotions during rainstorms and sunshine, sprinkled with moments when you can almost reach the stars.

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frostysh
frostysh


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
posted July 30, 2016 12:20 AM
Edited by frostysh at 00:28, 30 Jul 2016.

I have a next advises to the Inferno faction players at the "Heroic" difficulty.

1) Usually you must pick an experience from the chests, because the main damage on early game will be from a Hero's abilities. The more tough your Hero on the early game, the less your army will suffer.

2) Sometimes is a better to use Imps as a blockers in the split stacks, because of their high initiative you can easily block the ways and cover the holes in your defense before your main stack will suffer because of it.

3) The monsters like Archlich are pretty tough, if you have no good tactics against them, it is better to avoid, or they will eat your army with "Plagues" like a snacks...
The monsters like a Poltergeist, Blood Maidens is a much more easiest to defeat, it is  better to focus on them in the early game.
The monsters with a low speed, can be defeated with "hit-and-run" tactics with Hell Hounds soldiers in army.

4) The Magic Guild is a very important building for this faction, without the Magic, your army will suffer hard..

5) The Leadership is a very good idea for a Horned Demons and especially if you have a building for Horned Grunt, they a very useful against long range attack monsters if combined with "Tactics (Attack)" skill.

6) The many things depends on the map-random, if you are on the tiny Island and your Docks has been protected by a tough guys, you are in a bad trouble with Inferno on the early game...

Anyway, I think I will lose the game, against my friend - Nebiros' Army decided to attack the Archiliches, and that was a very bad idea....
19x Archiliches can produce an insane damage with their "Plagues" even if they blocked to shoot... The battle was a brave and very good, but against such mighty enemy Nebiros and it's Army have a low chances.
My friend gave me some cash to recruit my main hero again, before the next-week happens, I have returned this cash to him back, but anyway darn Liches killed ~2 week summons of Horned Grunts, and 2 week summons of a Hell Hounds , and the worst that to move further I must defeat:

and/or

This is obviously will be hardcore.. So I think the game is lost for me ;/.

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The_Polyglot
The_Polyglot


Promising
Supreme Hero
zombie
posted July 30, 2016 01:43 AM

frostysh said:
I have a next advises to the Inferno faction players at the "Heroic" difficulty.

1) Usually you must pick an experience from the chests, because the main damage on early game will be from a Hero's abilities. The more tough your Hero on the early game, the less your army will suffer.
...



____________
You're someone else's problem
Now I only want you gone...
-Glados

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frostysh
frostysh


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
posted July 30, 2016 03:30 AM
Edited by frostysh at 03:32, 30 Jul 2016.

The_Polyglot -
Huh, hmm, I think that was a bad idea to pick up the Troll image for my in-forum avatar... The very truth that the peoples believing in what they saw and hear. ;/

Anyway, about the "Heroic" and Treasure Chests - you see, I think if the map contain no 'Free Gold' near your starting village, perhaps you must pick up some gold from a Treasure  Chests. Without the additional gold (and without the gold production buildings), usually you will have ~ 13,500 cash in the end of the week 1, of course this a much lower than with Chests. But if playing for Nebiros



It is a VERY different if you have a Mark of Damned, or you have not. You must have a lot of skills on the Week 2, if you want to survive, because Inferno have no shooters before Succubi, you main damage will be from a hero abilities, if you want to left your army alive for the Week 2...
In this case you will need a LOT of skills, i.e. you obviously will need the Advanced Gatling on the Week 2...
So the important to survive on Week 1-2 skills. IMHO .

 - Advanced Gating, - 1 level.

If you will chose the "War Machines path", you will obviously need a 2 level in this skill, second one for "Ballista"

together with - The Consuming Corpse better to obtain if you want to use the Hellfire, because if you have no "Mana" (~5mp/Hellfire strike) this skill will be useless... 2 levels.

, , , Obviously you will need some Magic for a Inferno, because without it your army will suffer hard... 1 level.  

So approximately we have 6 levels, of course appearing of skills is a random, you perhaps you must an additional levels to obtain some necessary abilities. On "Heroic" for each victory Nebiros will obtain 500-1,000 EXP, perhaps you can defeat something near ~3 monsters without serious loses - Ore Mine, Wooden Mine, and the some additional monster. If you were lucky and there was no hard monster you will have a 3 levels of your hero..
But then will be a hard monsters, a tough monsters without picking the EXP from Treasure Chests you will suffer a hard loses against such monsters.

I.e. A bucket of an upgraded Bear Riders protecting the way to the Gold Mine, the an Upgraded Maidens protecting the way to the +1,000 cash per week building etc...

That is because I think Inferno Nebiros is need to almost always picking up the EXP from a Treasure Chests. I picked the cash, and I have lose the game because of it .

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The_Polyglot
The_Polyglot


Promising
Supreme Hero
zombie
posted July 30, 2016 04:44 AM

Gold is always a better investment, ESPECIALLY on higher difficulty levels. Better players than me have already explained how to go about creeping with Inferno, If your strategy depends on things that will make the earliest game harder - you are basically saying you can't creep efficiently at all until you hit MotD - you need to revise and improve it.

PS; You behave like a troll in every thread you replied in, regardless of your avatar.
____________
You're someone else's problem
Now I only want you gone...
-Glados

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frostysh
frostysh


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
posted July 30, 2016 08:59 AM

The_Polyglot
The_Polyglot said:
Gold is always a better investment, ESPECIALLY on higher difficulty levels. Better players than me have already explained how to go about creeping with Inferno, If your strategy depends on things that will make the earliest game harder - you are basically saying you can't creep efficiently at all until you hit MotD - you need to revise and improve it.


As I said, with this particular gold investment you will have Succubi before the Week 2, of course if you were lucky with a resources, but ah if you playing for Nebiros, I have a very doubts that after this investments you will be able to hold alive your Army for too long.. Without a good Hero Abilities, Nebiros' Army attacking a heavy guarded Gold Mine - this is just a kamikaze...
Anything that can shoot, that can move fast, that can cast the spells will punish Nebiros' Army so hard.. (on the week two all of this stacks will obtain a bonus of 11% from their week 1 numbers...)

i.e. 19x Archlich on week two that guard a Golden Mine, a Docks or a somethings a very important. . .  Without a heavy damage/a hard support from a Hero itself. you army will suffer a catastrophic disaster.  And your opponent can defeat this Archilich monsters with a Destructive or a Special Magic, with a powerful, specialized units, and so on...

And your opponent will wipe out anything on the Week 2 with 2weeks summon of  archers, with the high magic damage (Dungeon), etc, ... (of course if your opponent is not Inferno too)... And then you will be in a bad situation.

Can you show me please the posts with a good 'creeping' tactics for Inferno on "Heroic", I have fully read this thread and have found nothing appropriate. Perhaps I need  looking for it more carefully ?  
IMHO, Nebiros without the Treasure Chests Experience will lose to any other hero from the any other faction, except Inferno "    

The_Polyglot said:

PS; You behave like a troll in every thread you replied in, regardless of your avatar.

I am still do not remember, the user with an account name The_Polyglot in the any of my threads answers on this forum...

For second, I am usually (and suddenly.. for myself ) have a different from the 'mainstream' opinion, but I support my opinion with a facts, a statics, in the worst case, with my own real life experience, and If I am something do not understand right, I always asking the questions, If I am wrong, I can easily reconsider my own opinion if someone will provide an arguments that is more closely to the truth than my own arguments.
If I have made an offense, I usually making an apologies, I am trying to be polite as I can.

So if this habits is a troll habits for you, then okay, so be it, I am troll.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 30, 2016 10:03 AM

If you read what people write, you wouldn't have played with Nebiros in the first place, but with Grok. So go figure.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Tastes like chicken
posted July 30, 2016 11:51 AM

Oh he reads. He just totally ignores
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Being human is a roller coaster ride of emotions during rainstorms and sunshine, sprinkled with moments when you can almost reach the stars.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 30, 2016 01:01 PM

Or that, yeah.

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frostysh
frostysh


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
posted July 31, 2016 02:43 AM
Edited by frostysh at 02:58, 31 Jul 2016.

How to capture the "Harbor", playing for the Inferno faction, Nebiros hero, the difficulty is "Heroic"?



0) Remember that the snow itself cost a 1,000 cash and 10 wood. recruiting a hero cost ~ 2,000 - 3,000 cash. You must include this debts into your evolving plan.  

1) You may attack the Harbor Guards with Nebiros (Hellfire/Mark of Damned/Destructive Magic, etc exist in the hero' abilities),

- - - Your Army must be splitted into stacks, and containing the Imps.  7x2 stacks of Imps.

- - - Imps will make their move, usually before the Mighty Magic Monsters (Like an Archliches is), use the gating-reinforcements abilities with your army.

- - - Try to block/hold on the guards as long time as possible, before the final blow is struck, retreat into village

- - - Recruit your Nebiros again, take the main army and attack!

2) You may recruit for this goal a special hero (a mighty Spell Caster is a perfect choice in this case), and make the same first-weaken strike attack and then defeat the guards with a main army.

3) You may make a crazy attack with almost all army that you have, and suffer a heavy loses (or a defeat as I suffer...), and then rebuy your Nebiros and attack again..

4) Is there any other tactics?

What a bonuses the captured Harbor will give to you? Usually 1,500 Cash per 1 sea Chest (there no EXP, only CASH), and usually 10 Wood and 500 Cash per 1 sea wretches. - it is  A very good.  

Idk why I have made a chose to Nebiros' side. I think, Nebiros is want to play too. Not only Grok and Daleb.

The situation is next:



, , , ,

The last two slots I have left for a Defense, and the Magic. Spellpower of Nebiros 9th level is 14 and the damage from a Hellfire is an insane, combining it's with a Magic Insight (Sorcery) - this is a really fearsome...

My hero suffered a two heavy defeat : 1st one from the Archlich, the second from a Shadow Matriarch, monsters, anyway to capture a Harbor was a very good idea, my Grok easily harvested almost the full water surface for a resources. The Leadership was a very helpful in case of healing the army wounds. So for now I have a hope at least to the good main battle, but not a 'I came and I won' by my friend .

So I need a some advice:

1) The main battle Vittorio vs Nebiros

VS

Which School of magic would be better in that case, Nebiros have a ~14 Spellpower on the 9th level, Vittorio have a much more higher level (Nebiros with full army was two times defeated).

2) How I can disable Vittorio' Ballista?

3) The  Succubus Mistress or a Succubus Seducer? Vermins or a Familiars, Horned Grunts or a Horned Overseers. I think Hell Stallions will be more fearful against 'living' creatures.  

4) And I think I will use the 'open' formation, usually I have little care about my Succubi, they can take care about themselves. I will gate by an Upgraded Imps, and Horned Demons and I will attack by Stallions and Dogs, I will jump by Horned Demons over the largest creatures that the Vittorio have.  - is this a good tactics upon? Then

Thanx for the answers!

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