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violent_flower
Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
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posted July 02, 2007 06:15 PM |
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Um, excuse me, yes there is proof that we are made of energy and so is everything around us as well. This is my bit on energy.
When you are referring to our “Souls” you re referring to energy. We as humans are made up of nothing but energy. When you go to touch something you are actually touching energy not the object itself. Yes this is correct, you never actually touch anything your energy does. It is energy touching energy. So when people refer to your souls dying it is a direct reference to our energy. Thus making it when we loose our “souls” that we do become nothing more than a shell.
It is like the elements of a light bulb burning out. So the bulb itself is our bodies (physical) and the element inside is our “souls”. What happens when the element goes bad, you have nothing but a piece of damn glass that isn’t worth ****.
So what happens to the energy after it is released from our bodies. Is it inconceivable to think it may get siphoned into another universe? Well, why the hell not, we are either derived from apes or we were created from dirt. So any theory that has yet to be proved still stands as that, a theory.
Coming back again does not interest me in least bit unless I can take with me all of my wisdom and hard learned lessons. The road to a clean and understandable slate has been a tiring one. People enjoy viewing death as a transition period rather than an ending. This gives them a way out of their depression that has their minds bedridden. This is another reason why bible thumpers tend to grasp the bonded copy of their fate and poorly attempt to live by its man written words.
If one thinks of death as a transition, we can set our minds at ease about the possibility we have done all this for nothing more than a silk lined box. If we read the Bible and swear by the pretty red words, we give ourselves something to work towards. I mean really is it inconceivable to rationalize the thought we will all just end up rotting away somewhere while our families mourn their loss?
Light waves themselves are not made up of mass so they are timeless, ageless, and therefore making the expanding universe theory that Titanium Alloy speaks of, not only possible but probable unless of course that same light or radiation gets into contact with the black hole. Since the black hole is a region of space with gravitational forces strong enough to absorb light, if that light was to gravitate towards the black hole than no more expanding of the universe.
Anyway just a note on the subject and I find it fascinating to explore…
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 02, 2007 06:41 PM |
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Our life energy comes from the Sun, yet even the Sun had to get energy from something. Perhaps an even larger energy source, but even that one - all the largest energy sources - had to get energy to get the chemical processes going from something. The first energy source. One might even call it God.
Oh. I see what you mean by "life energy" now. Well, yes, you are mostly correct. We get our energy from the Sun. But I'll tell you where the Sun gets its energy: nuclear fusion. It fuses hydrogen into helium, and that gives energy. It has nothing to do with God.
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Zombies? They would be the same as they were before they died.
Just without a couple of million brain cells which died off in the meantime.
But if we couldn't restore those brain cells to the way they were or replace them with identical ones (with the same information), then we wouldn't be able to truly raise them. Then, yes, they would be zombies, but the process would be incomplete.
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Humans are far more complex than robots are right now. But, basically, both run on chemical reactions and energy.
Indeed. Robots run on man-made energy and they are inferior to humans. We run on solar energy, and we are obviously much inferior to the Sun. Sun had to run on some energy, to which it is inferior. And so on. You are always inferior to what gives you life.
Where are you getting this stuff? "Inferior" energy? The only differences between energy are its form and its amount. And energy is used up at times, so each energy level gets less. The sun has the most, then plants, then herbivores, and so on. Robots run on electricity, so most would get their energy (if they powered up from the outlet) from coal or oil (which are dead things with stored energy from the sun).
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Well, it can't even be theoretically known to details (because we can't know all the aspects of every atom, according to the Uncertainty Principle), but that doesn't mean that the aspects don't exist.
Exactly. Just like we cannot possibly know whether some higher power exists or not, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. That can be applied to everything. And you're saying I don't have proof.
We can know some of the aspects of some atoms. We don't know any aspects of a higher power, we don't havve any evidence of its existence.
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And the aspects that we know change in a predictable pattern.
Do they? If each aspect changes in a predictable pattern, and each group of them does, it makes perfect sense that the pattern of even billions of aspects is predictable. Common sense.
But we don't know billions of aspects. We know far fewer. And I don't know how many atoms there are in the universe, but it is beyond the reach of modern science and technology to identify all of their aspects. It is not beyond their reach to identify most of the aspects of a few atoms, or some aspects of some atoms, or a few aspects of a lot of atoms. But we know that these aspects exist, if we tested them, we would find most of them. There's just a lot to test.
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Inner energy? Is that anyther term for "life energy"?
Mock on. Inner energy, life energy, energy situated in our bodies, however anyone likes to call it, is proven as a fact. Checkmate. 
So, by "life energy" you mean the energy we get from food, which originally comes from the Sun. Fair enough. But we know a lot about energy as well.
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When you are referring to our “Souls” you re referring to energy. We as humans are made up of nothing but energy. When you go to touch something you are actually touching energy not the object itself. Yes this is correct, you never actually touch anything your energy does. It is energy touching energy. So when people refer to your souls dying it is a direct reference to our energy. Thus making it when we loose our “souls” that we do become nothing more than a shell.
Except that there's nothing mystical about energy, and there is about souls. True, we never touch anything (the electrons repel each other), so we really touch the repellent forces. True. But when people refer to souls dying, it has nothing to do with energy. Energy exists, there is proof of it. There is no proof of souls.
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It is like the elements of a light bulb burning out. So the bulb itself is our bodies (physical) and the element inside is our “souls”. What happens when the element goes bad, you have nothing but a piece of damn glass that isn’t worth ****.
But it is possible to put in a new element, and the light bulb would be as good as new. Theoretically, it's the same with people.
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So what happens to the energy after it is released from our bodies. Is it inconceivable to think it may get siphoned into another universe?
Our remaining energy is stored in our dead cells until the worms and bacteria come to get it for themselves.
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Coming back again does not interest me in least bit unless I can take with me all of my wisdom and hard learned lessons.
It would be more difficult to bring people back with their memories intact (and we're comparing something which is far beyond modern science with something that is more difficult than that thing). But, theoretically, it's still possible.
Death is a transition: from living for yourself to lying there as food for worms.
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Since the black hole is a region of space with gravitational forces strong enough to absorb light, if that light was to gravitate towards the black hole than no more expanding of the universe.
It's possible that the universe will no longer expannd, and even collapse in upon itself. So?
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Eccentric Opinion
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 02, 2007 07:07 PM |
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No, it's not possible that the universe stops expanding, your info is highly out-dated mvassilev. The universe speeds up rather then slowing down.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 02, 2007 07:10 PM |
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If the universe is accelerating (I assume that you are referring to dark energy), then that ultimately makes no difference.
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Eccentric Opinion
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted July 02, 2007 08:11 PM |
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Ok, I'm going to Greece tomorrow so I won't be available for some time... Hopefully MVas will get tired of this by then.
Anyways, The_Death mostly replied to it all. I just have one thing to explain, cause you misunderstood me:
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"Inferior" energy?
I was referring to an energy source, not energy itself.
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Istari
Known Hero
Truth Teller, ToH
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posted July 02, 2007 08:19 PM |
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Edited by Istari at 20:29, 02 Jul 2007.
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mvassilev's responses are an almost comedic example of what people will say when they start with the assumption that they know everything. Science is just organized observation and cannot even address questions that have no way of being observed. So, if you start the the faulty assumption that science knows everything and you know everything... good luck making up answers that don't exist.
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Opinions are immunity to being told you're wrong.
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violent_flower
Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
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posted July 03, 2007 01:55 AM |
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Hey boys and girls I would like to point out that I just received a -QP for this same behavior. If you would referr to the clear cut rules of no arguing unless your agrueing on Tuesday and Thursday night, and no swearing unless it is only used in a nice none swearing kinda a way, you will see that your insults will lead you in second place.
There, this should help you on your way to being a more productive HC members, and remember boys if your not confused already about the rules, just refer to them.
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kookastar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted July 03, 2007 03:06 AM |
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Hey boys and girls I would like to point out that I just received a -QP for this same behavior. If you would referr to the clear cut rules of no arguing unless your agrueing on Tuesday and Thursday night, and no swearing unless it is only used in a nice none swearing kinda a way, you will see that your insults will lead you in second place.
There, this should help you on your way to being a more productive HC members, and remember boys if your not confused already about the rules, just refer to them.
Actually this is incorrect, you recieved a -qp for starting a thread for the sole purpose of provokation and gossip and making someone look bad, bringing personal issues with a member and airing them for all to read. That is completely different to what is happening in this thread.
If you have an issue with me address me or report it to Val, no need for the sarcastic digs all over the boards. If you like I can go back through the archives and get more serious about the way some people here talk to others.
re the debate in this thread - most of it has been good debate, attacking the ideas/ arguments rather than the people. There is a fine line however, so this is a warning and a reminder to be respectful of each others beliefs and don't attack people personally, or provoke them.
and YES do read the CoC in the FAQ if you are unsure of the rules.
But that was really interesting discussion people  It wasn't as painful to read this thread as it sometimes is
re the swearing, you are right, I've been ignoring it, I can be harsher with that too if you like  Whatever keeps you happy 
Edit: on second look This is a warning to Shadey - do not attack members or their values personally, I'm cleaning the spam.
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uhuh
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted July 03, 2007 02:32 PM |
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Edited by angelito at 14:33, 03 Jul 2007.
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@ TheDeath
1. What is a "proof" in your eyes?
2. Why do you use the term "logical" when u refer to science, but never when u talk about God?
3. Do you think your statement "...energy knows about energy" is a logical conclusion? If I take your kind of logic and put it in a different example, it would look like this: "Noodles are made of eggs and other stuff. Eggs come from chicken. If u wait long enough, small chickens come out of these eggs. --> Noodles are the babies of chickens." If u find this example ridiculous, you should re-read your "logic" again.
4. While the science have many many proofs (evidences) for specific phenomenons, the religion has NONE for any religious phenomenon. A proof/evidence for me is for example, a scientist can predict what 2 different materials will do when they react. They let them react, and it will exactly happen what they predicted. They can predict what happens if u use specific energy on a specific corpse. They put energy on a corpse, and the corpse will exactly react like they predicted. And so on...and so on....
What can YOU predict refering to religion? And then DO so, and we all can see it happens what u predicted. I'm eager to see....
And please...don't turn it upside down now and tell me those scientific predictions are nothing else than proof of God's work. I am talking about those typical religous things mentioned everywhere.
5. And why do u think the question "What was before God?" is ridiculous? The question "What was before....?" is what turned science into what it is today. That's why we know atoms are NOT the smallest thing we have (quarks). That's why we know the earth is NOT flat. That's why we know about more planets then just those who are near us. That's why we know what happened to the dinosaurs. Only because we always questioned the current knowledge. This is called "evolution" resp. "progression".
Is there ANY evolution / progression refering to religion?
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted July 03, 2007 02:38 PM |
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For the record, if you want to understand why God is difficult to explain to atheists, look at this scenario:
A blind person comes and asks you: "How does green look?"
Explain it to him, without giving him eyes -- just with words. 
Wrong conclusion.
Ask 2 theists how god looks like. Let's see what answers you get (ask a black man and a white woman please )
Next u go into the brazilian jungle, look out for pygmy and explain him how a Plasma-monitor works.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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violent_flower
Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
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posted July 03, 2007 04:36 PM |
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Energy is not an entity; energy makes up entities.
Energy creates everything that we see and feel.
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No, it's composed of both matter and energy.
Matter is energy.
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I indirectly observe God.. Atheists can't.
You directly observe God or serve him?
Atheists from my understanding just simply want proof one way or another. I have found, from only having a few friend that are atheist, they deny the existence of him because the lack of proof is really profound. The truth is that a book, not parental beliefs, or society can prove something of this magnitude subsists.
We can claim that God is what kept little Susie from getting hit by a car and then everyone will drop to one knee and thank him/her/it. On that same note when your child is killed in front of you that same person, who has believed all their life, will get on one knee and curse his almighty God.
I believe in energy and that it created all, now if that is some sort of God so be it. The real story is behind religion is not the fact that we have witnessed Heaven or Hell so it live us a reason to stand in the stagnant line for our golden ticket. It is that everyone wants that one positive thing to reach for, to hold to, to say that this is the reason I live here on this Hell on earth is so I too can sit with the King and enjoy some Turkey.
I don’t fault anyone for believing anything, because I can’t confirm nor deny the subject at hand; we are just humans racing through this life likes rats in a lab. I applaud the efforts put forth in this thread, what kills me is the continuation of dialogue trying to prove or disprove the ever going question of GOD.
I would like to think that my efforts here on earth will be rewarded someday, however we should not be decent humans and help others based upon whether we get a seat in the big house. That mentality is self-absorbed, we should love and care for others because it is the right thing to do.
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Learn how to duck and weave because I will throw truth at you all day!
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 03, 2007 05:02 PM |
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Energy is not an entity; energy makes up entities.
Energy creates everything that we see and feel.
If you want to look at it that way, then yes. We see light energy; we feel electromagnetic energy. Yet that energy is around matter. And energy and matter make up living things, as well as nonliving ones.
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No, it's composed of both matter and energy.
Matter is energy.
I'm not sure, but I don't think that is completely agreed upon in the scientific community. Regardless, for the purposes of this discussion, it is better to make a distinction.
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It is that everyone wants that one positive thing to reach for, to hold to, to say that this is the reason I live here on this Hell on earth is so I too can sit with the King and enjoy some Turkey.
That, too, is an origin of religion. But you have to remember that religion can easily be used to opress and doom people.
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what kills me is the continuation of dialogue trying to prove or disprove the ever going question of GOD.
Why? It's fun to debate.
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Eccentric Opinion
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violent_flower
Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
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posted July 03, 2007 05:11 PM |
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Mav, don't get me wrong I enjoy reading the posts, thanks for responding.
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Learn how to duck and weave because I will throw truth at you all day!
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted July 04, 2007 11:15 AM |
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Trying to prove the question if God really exists, is like trying to answer the question of life, the universe and everything
We do not know if God exists, but there are many people out there that believe it (didn't use he or she, because we dunno if God is a he or she ) exists or does not exist.
I am a Christian, and I suppose to a certain extent, I believe in God, but I also have my doubts.
For example, why does God never answer my prayers?
I have prayed several times that my mum's asthma goes away, but she ends up in hospital eventually.
I have also prayed that God could get rid of my ADHD and ODD, but that still has not happened.
I guess these things are for Humans to overcome and get through, and learn from the experiences it will teach us while going through them.
I do believe there might be a God, but not a God that some of us believe in.
I do question some of the stories in the Bible, like Noah's Ark, that just is not possible, and Moses and the parting of the Red Sea, that just does not seem possible as well.
However, I have heard, that there may have been some kind of underwater earthquake, and that is what caused the parting of the sea, and that is how Moses got across, but I do not know if that story is actually true, guess we might never know.
Some people have a need to believe in God, or any God for that matter, perhaps to give meaning to their life, or to fill some part of their life where there was previously a black hole, nothing.
Other people need to have definite proof of God so that they will believe in it, but I doubt that that will ever happen.
The question of whether God is real or not might never be answered, perhaps the question we should be asking is what is God?
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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Doomforge
Admirable
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Retired Hero
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posted July 04, 2007 11:44 AM |
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If you're curious, there was an experiment a few years ago and it was proved that the sea could part exactly like described.
Still, those stories are ofc metaphores
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted July 04, 2007 01:59 PM |
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Still, those stories are ofc metaphores
Like the whole bible maybe?...
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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antipaladin
Promising
Legendary Hero
of Ooohs and Aaahs
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posted July 04, 2007 02:02 PM |
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some things better left unkown,undescoverd,why must you force religion or logic on someone? dont,do you thang,and dont do it on others.
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types in obscure english
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted July 04, 2007 02:13 PM |
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Still, those stories are ofc metaphores
Like the whole bible maybe?...
Some of the bible has some truth to it and some of it doesn't.
Like, the old testament, imo, does not have a lot of truth to it, because some of the stories there are pretty unbelievable, like 900 year old people? come on, get real.
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 04, 2007 05:26 PM |
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What about the New Testament? Feeding 5000 people? Ressurecting the dead? You think that's literal?
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Eccentric Opinion
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Doomforge
Admirable
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Retired Hero
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posted July 04, 2007 05:52 PM |
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Oh come on, if he's a God, what's the problem to ressurect someone for him?
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