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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted February 02, 2008 09:08 AM |
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This is a hypothetical religion, is it, daystar?
I just think that this model for religion is a very good one to follow, because you don't end up worshipping the same guy on the same throne with the same son.
be careful not to include too many deities, as you end up with a divine version of eastenders (see the greek, egyptian and chinese pantheon for further details)
____________
Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted February 02, 2008 03:17 PM |
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Edited by Moonlith at 15:21, 02 Feb 2008.
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Quote:
What I'm saying Moonlith, is an existance with no director, (no nudge in this direction) would never turn into what we see today.
And that's plain bull. Hence why I said, retarded non-argument - I really don't care if that means a penalty.
You don't know if it could "never" turn into this, that's merely a belief caused by incapability of comprehending it.
The chance is not complete 0, the chance is 0,00000001%, or smaller.
And given the billions of planets in the universe, Earth just happens to have been that one planet. That is anything but "proof" there has been some kind of "Divine intervention".
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted February 02, 2008 04:25 PM |
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Edited by Celfious at 16:41, 02 Feb 2008.
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Daystar I concede that "God" may be made up of more than one bodies... But I believe there would be one who is most high too.
Chance alone cannot turn into such a perfectly orchastrated reality.
____________
What are you up to
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted February 02, 2008 04:54 PM |
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Quote:
This is a hypothetical religion, is it, daystar?
Hopefully. 
Quote:
But I believe there would be one who is most high too.
Of course. And she has a tough job.
____________
How exactly is luck a skill?
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted February 02, 2008 10:01 PM |
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Quote:
Chance alone cannot turn into such a perfectly orchastrated reality.
LOGIC dictates that that is simply put a FALSE statement, end of story. Thereby, "perfectly orchastrated" is subjected. Can you even comprehend the sheer amount of try and error time that this planet has had to create the diversity of life it has now?
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gallow
Bad-mannered
Known Hero
Avenger
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posted February 02, 2008 10:38 PM |
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Celfius its right is his statement,and seems that moonlith gets mad if there is a christian person here,he hates them,even he insulted,nice...let people be happy and have a god,universe didnt born from nothing,if you think all evolved fine,mix trash and stuff and wait 25 years or more lets see what happens.Its more than obvious there is a creator,its beyond of our comprension,example the beauty of the nature,or more far;the orbits of the planet or whatever,why you dont go personally to a church and ask to a person there "why do you believe in god" you THINK its that easy to understand? you must discover it by yourself,that happens here all want the easy way,nothing else just this,good bye
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted February 02, 2008 10:54 PM |
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Quote:
...example the beauty of the nature...
Tsunami was here!
Kathrina was here!
Earthquake was here!
Quote:
you must discover it by yourself,that happens here all want the easy way,nothing else just this,good bye
Tell that to all the victims of the beautifull nature.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted February 02, 2008 11:03 PM |
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Victims of nature?
Nature is our victim. Look around you.
A tsunami happens once in several decades. But humans cut down forests, make power plants, commit nuclear tests, create ozone holes etcetera CONSTANTLY. Not to mention devastation caused by wars.
We whine about natural cataclysms all the time, but we fail to realize that WE are the greatest disaster of all. We are so blindly destructive that we even destroy ourselves. And just like a tornado or an earthquake passes, we will eventually pass too; I just hope we don't take the entire planet with us.
Sorry for going off topic.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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gallow
Bad-mannered
Known Hero
Avenger
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posted February 02, 2008 11:10 PM |
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thank you baklava for understand,seems the mod got it wrong,again.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted February 02, 2008 11:34 PM |
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There have been tsunamis, earthquakes, volcanic erruptions and similar "nature beautifullness" way before mankind walked around this planet...ask the dinosaurs.
So it is a bit easy to say mankind is the reason for ALL nature catastrophies....
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 02, 2008 11:51 PM |
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Quote:
Nature is our victim. Look around you.
A tsunami happens once in several decades. But humans cut down forests, make power plants, commit nuclear tests, create ozone holes etcetera CONSTANTLY. Not to mention devastation caused by wars.
Of course we have to protect nature. But not for the reasons you imply. Nature is a resource. We have to protect the Earth so that the Earth can continue to nourish and protect (ozone layer) us. But we shouldn't be obsessed with it. And there's nothing wrong with nuclear power.
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Eccentric Opinion
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted February 03, 2008 12:39 AM |
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Quote:
There have been tsunamis, earthquakes, volcanic erruptions and similar "nature beautifullness" way before mankind walked around this planet...ask the dinosaurs.
So it is a bit easy to say mankind is the reason for ALL nature catastrophies....
Oh, not for all the catastrophes ever. But the way it is now, it seems we'll be responsible for the final one :\
Quote:
Of course we have to protect nature. But not for the reasons you imply. Nature is a resource. We have to protect the Earth so that the Earth can continue to nourish and protect (ozone layer) us. But we shouldn't be obsessed with it.
If we shouldn't be obsessed with our lives and life of our children, then what should we be concerned with?
And saying nature is a resource is same like saying your parents are a resource.
And no, there really is nothing wrong with nuclear power by itself. But the problem, again, is in humans. They misuse it for nuclear armament; overuse it (some 70 new nuclear power plants are planned to be built in Europe I think); and of course dump all the waste where? In nature. Preferably some poor countries.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 03, 2008 02:59 AM |
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Quote:
If we shouldn't be obsessed with our lives and life of our children, then what should we be concerned with?
You misunderstood me. We should protect the planet for us and our children. But we shouldn't do it for its own sake.
Quote:
And saying nature is a resource is same like saying your parents are a resource.
But nature is a resource.
Quote:
overuse it (some 70 new nuclear power plants are planned to be built in Europe I think)
Nuclear power doesn't cause global warming and is efficient. The only problem is waste storage. Why not launch it into the sun?
Quote:
and of course dump all the waste where? In nature. Preferably some poor countries.
Here we go... More "the rich are exploiting the poor".
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Eccentric Opinion
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted February 03, 2008 03:17 AM |
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Edited by Minion at 03:30, 03 Feb 2008.
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OFFTOPIC post ahead, Warning Warning...
Quote:
Nuclear power doesn't cause global warming and is efficient. The only problem is waste storage. Why not launch it into the sun?
The difficulty of launching something into the Sun is twofold:
1.) Escape from Earth's gravity.
2.) Cancelling the Earth's angular momentum, such that a direct "dive" into the Sun is possible.
There is no booster in existence that could do this for even a "regular-sized" space probe.
And 45,000 tons of nuclear waste resides in US alone!
And if that wasn't problematic enough, do you have any idea how much it would cost? Nuclear Energy would become unprofitable in an instant.
And if that wasn't bad enough, consider the risks. The rockets have a tendency of exploding on their way to the atmosphere, about 95% of the flights are successful.
An explosion in the atmosphere carrying radioactive nuclear waste would be CATASTROPHIC, to say the least.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 03, 2008 03:43 AM |
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All right, I see. Then we should put the waste under Yucca Mountain.
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Eccentric Opinion
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TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
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posted February 03, 2008 04:43 AM |
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Actually Celfious' argument for god seems to be the most valid one in this thread so far, and I agree with him in the sense that we are so unlikely to be here.
But Moonlith is right: Unlikely, but not impossible.
And on the concept of a hypothetical religion: While these hold the same amount of weight as the major religions as they are in essence the same thing; a religion in which the followers know full well that it is entirely made up (instead of being deceived) is something I can only laugh at. 
____________
John says to live above hell.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted February 03, 2008 06:02 AM |
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Quoting TA:
Quote:
Actually Celfious' argument for god seems to be the most valid one in this thread so far, and I agree with him in the sense that we are so unlikely to be here.
I'm disappointed in you, TA. The irreducible complexity argument is a horrible one that makes no logical sense. Anybody with any training in statistics knows that the probability of occurance of an event scales with the sample size, and if the Universe is good at generating anything, it's enormously large sample sizes.
Many people like to think that the complexity of a living organism is proof positive of a creator (or rather, proof that the lack of a creator is impossible), but really the degree of complexity of the universe has absolutely no bearing on the problem of whether god exists.
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TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
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posted February 03, 2008 06:31 AM |
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I'm not a proponent of irreducible complexity.
But I find that I can marvel at the inherent complexity of our surroundings without having to blame someone for them.
What I was trying to say was that maybe if the Universe wasn't so heart-stoppingly big then that might go under consideration as an argument.
This old thread gives the basic idea of my thoughts on the matter, I find it kinda interesting to think about:
[url=http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=20265]I'm looking for a grain of sand; you have a desert.[/url]
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted February 03, 2008 12:12 PM |
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Quote:
But nature is a resource.
I stand in awe of your argument
1) Nature gave us birth.
2) It raised us.
3) It nurtured us.
4) It gave us everything it has.
5) Yet we are breaking free from it, and seeking destiny elsewhere.
Don't you agree it's more of a parent than a resource? Unless you count your mom and dad as plain resources, of course.
Quote:
Here we go... More "the rich are exploiting the poor".
Another fantastic argument 
What I said was a fact. You won't have nuclear waste dumped in USA or France or Britain. You'll have it dumped in places like Afghanistan.
You could try to think about it once in a while.
If it weren't for people who said the rich are exploiting the poor, you would still be living in slavery.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
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posted February 03, 2008 12:15 PM |
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Of course nature is a resource.
Wood, oil, stone, clay, metals, minerals, water, food: hence the name natural resource.
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