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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Modders Workshop > Thread: death knight and wraith
Thread: death knight and wraith This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT»
drogoth
drogoth

Tavern Dweller
posted June 06, 2006 02:25 AM

death knight and wraith

hi,

I was wandering if there is a mod that replaces the wraith with the death knight and the bone dragon with the wraith. It only makes sense to me. Wraith is 'death itself' according to Nival so why not make it the lvl 7 unit(there's more than enough Dragons in game already!) and the death knight suits the role of a good lvl 6 very well in my oppinion.

Any thoughts?

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rpgguy
rpgguy


Adventuring Hero
Scholar
posted June 06, 2006 03:22 AM
Edited by rpgguy at 03:55, 06 Jun 2006.

death knight is WAY overpowered even for a level 7 creature - a creature that can destroy 50% of your black dragons alone must remain neutral.

as for the wraith - level 7 melee walker is a crappy creature and the wraith abilities are realy weak for a 7th level creature and if you compare bone dragon to a wraith according to other fantasy games (D&D, Mtg , etc) the bone dragon will always win.
accroding to many games a wight/wraith shouldnt even be stronger than a ghost... puting it on 6th level is a very respected place (too high IMO).
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Triple Growth For All Creatures

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m4carbine
m4carbine


Hired Hero
posted June 06, 2006 06:07 AM

Death Knights death blow ability is too strong, kill half a stack and 25% chance, Too dangerous. However, wraiths should be level 3 is there really any differece between Wraith and ghost?

I think death blow should just be double damage or maybe like a death stare, then they can put them into necropolis as a level 6.

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law558
law558


Adventuring Hero
posted June 06, 2006 11:40 AM

Quote:
as for the wraith - level 7 melee walker is a crappy creature and the wraith abilities are realy weak for a 7th level creature and if you compare bone dragon to a wraith according to other fantasy games (D&D, Mtg , etc) the bone dragon will always win.
accroding to many games a wight/wraith shouldnt even be stronger than a ghost... puting it on 6th level is a very respected place (too high IMO).


Age of wonders: shadow magic had a good wraith/death type unit. And it was highest level undead unit availble. Of course the H5 wraith would need to be tweaked (higher HP, able to fly, powerful abilities) to be able to lead the undead as a Level 7.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted June 06, 2006 12:04 PM

they could be.. but bone dragons are here since h2.

Besides, they don't offer good specials, but they have best damage @ level6 (not counting justing bonus of paladins). They would make a fine l7, with nerfed death/dread knights as level6, but necro would be too strong then. Weak bonedrags are supposed to balance out the extra damage coming from skeletons

I miss dreadknights, one of the better looking units @ h3. Besides, I generally like death knights in all games, so I'd love to have them in necropolis


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silx87
silx87


Supreme Hero
posted June 06, 2006 12:30 PM

when....

Quote:
replace the wraith with the death knight and the bone dragon with the wraith


Why?...

dude, why?

Not to be rude though, no, don't get me wrong, but why?

I mean, of course there isn't such a patch.. I mean, there isn't a patch that would replace the griffin with the swordsman and the minotaur with the griffin..

I mean, why would there be?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be rude here.
My point is, this is what the game is like and it makes sense. The fact that in some other game it is different is completely irrelevant.. I mean.. So what?
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Juzorius
Juzorius

Tavern Dweller
posted June 06, 2006 01:25 PM

Well in my opinion, there is too many different kinds of dragons in the game indeed.
I was hoping to see somekind of "Dead riders" of Necropolis. But there was none, just neutral greatures. I don't like bone or spectral dragons really. Wraiths are very good looking and I thought they were lvl 7 greatures.
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Guldan
Guldan


Adventuring Hero
Soon to be banned...........
posted June 06, 2006 03:25 PM

Yes indeed, there are way too much dragons, and i personnaly think the wraith is really too weak, even for level 6 creature.

And to silx87, ofcourse most games are good as they are, but there are always bugs, and they get solved too, how about pople think the lack of a real good unit in necro is a bug (for example!). IO think there is always place and space for impovement. (here also no offense intended)

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted June 06, 2006 03:33 PM

Wraiths' weekly damage is almost as good as archangels' weekly damage, mind you.

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Kingpriest
Kingpriest


Hired Hero
posted June 06, 2006 07:00 PM

I thought the very same thing.  Half of all level seven faction units dragons?  Boring in my opinion.  I concur that the wraith should get a significant buff and placed as the Necropolis level 7 while Death Knights, which are so cool looking they deserve to belong to a faction, would fit wonderfully as a level 6.  Just balance them accordingly and there you go.

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drogoth
drogoth

Tavern Dweller
posted June 06, 2006 09:37 PM

thats what I thought too. I've read somewhere that there is a way to mod the stats of a unit i.e hp, attack etc...so why not mod the wraith and replace the dragon? (I stress this again:way tooooo many dragons.A dragon should be unique and powerful..not common)The wraith is like the 'reaper' and looks intimidating, good enough to be a lvl 7 after some tweaking.There is a mod that replaces the wraith with the deathknight and it works superbly.

@silkx....

why?
1)way too many dragons already
2)necropolis is my favourite town so I feel at a loss if the coolest unit is removed and the dragon I never cared about in the previous homm games stays
3)it is easily done and might happen soon
4)HOMM is a great game but there is always room for improvement
5)picture an undead army with deathknights(awesome model) and wraiths as your top units.....awesome!

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Nusaram
Nusaram


Hired Hero
posted June 06, 2006 09:48 PM

Wraiht is death itself,but the devil isn't Satan.The angel isn't God or a Saint.It isn't very smart to do that.
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Thanatos
Thanatos


Known Hero
posted June 07, 2006 01:15 AM
Edited by Thanatos at 01:16, 07 Jun 2006.

Quote:
Wraiht is death itself,but the devil isn't Satan.The angel isn't God or a Saint.It isn't very smart to do that.


the devil and Satan are the same things, Satan is just a name for the devil.

Anyway, I agree that the Wight/Wraith should be a lvl. 7... would fit it's description. Perhaps renamed to Reaper or something (I know it's not really creative but the thing really looks like the Grim Reaper ) and Harm Touch should be replaced by the Pit Lords Vorpal Blade, in the way it's now it's just now useful unless it's a single Wraith against a Black Dragon or something.

Perhaps Bone Dragon and Spectral Dragon could be moved to level 6 (to show that they really are weaker then normal dragons, all they need for rebalancing are nerfed attack and defense stats)  

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rpgguy
rpgguy


Adventuring Hero
Scholar
posted June 07, 2006 10:44 AM

the wraith ability is not useless its function is not just to kill 1 unit, it has two other perks:
- dispell positive spells from target
- no retaliation

these two abilities are often overlooked, imo they are pretty good.

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted June 07, 2006 12:53 PM

Quote:
Death Knights death blow ability is too strong, kill half a stack and 25% chance, Too dangerous.

I think death blow should just be double damage or maybe like a death stare, then they can put them into necropolis as a level 6.



Certainly, that's just way too stupid, I had like 10 Death Knights killing 90 Ancient Treants the other day ... *lol* Fortunately, it was late game and didn't matter, but it doesn't make any sense at all. It should be like Heroes III - give double damage - or, kill 10 % x number of Death Knights.

Also, I think the Wraith special is pretty lame. It's an activated ability, that will let you kill ONE creature! Wow ... that's really usefull in late game. And it's not like the Spectral Dragon has spectacular specials as well ... I think they Wraith should have the ability to kill 10 % of their numbers on strike (like mighty gorgons) and possibly have less hit points and then the Incorporeal ability - or the Spectral Dragons should be Incorporeal, or have some other special.

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drogoth
drogoth

Tavern Dweller
posted June 07, 2006 03:15 PM

well


This is what I found out by playing around a bit:
It is dead easy to tweak stats, abilities and models in this game. All you need is Winrar. You open the data.pak file with winrar click and open what you want, modify the entries(the code is easy to understand. looks like html or xml) and save the changes. You can even save them in a new folder created in the data folder but with the same path structure, this does not technically overwrite the original file so you can just delete your changes at any time. This is how the deathknight mod works. However I decided that I want the deathknight to be black like the blacknight so I just replaced and renamed 2 files. easy!I am going to replace the dragon with the wraith.
I am planning to tweak and balance both and when I'm satisified I might post how to do this here.

However, this method only works for models already in the game. Although if it appears so easy to customize themthen eventually some people will make their own skins. It just needs to be saved in the right format and renamed accordingly.

one more thing:
why do this?
well, isn't it also cool that necropolis becomes like the anti-thesis of the haven town then? palladin vs. deathknight, angel vs wraith i.e the angel of death, priest vs lich.....light vs dark, life vs death






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Kingpriest
Kingpriest


Hired Hero
posted June 07, 2006 03:57 PM

It would be interesting to see the Haven town have a nemesis in both Necropolis and Inferno.  

Paladin - Death Knight

Angel - Devil

It would really be nice to see some more variety with the level seven creatures.  Half of them dragons?  Blah!  The wraith would be so much more unique imo.  

And give Necropolis the Deathknight! (tone it down of course)

...please?

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rpgguy
rpgguy


Adventuring Hero
Scholar
posted June 07, 2006 04:01 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Death Knights death blow ability is too strong, kill half a stack and 25% chance, Too dangerous.

I think death blow should just be double damage or maybe like a death stare, then they can put them into necropolis as a level 6.



Certainly, that's just way too stupid, I had like 10 Death Knights killing 90 Ancient Treants the other day ... *lol* Fortunately, it was late game and didn't matter, but it doesn't make any sense at all. It should be like Heroes III - give double damage - or, kill 10 % x number of Death Knights.

Also, I think the Wraith special is pretty lame. It's an activated ability, that will let you kill ONE creature! Wow ... that's really usefull in late game. And it's not like the Spectral Dragon has spectacular specials as well ... I think they Wraith should have the ability to kill 10 % of their numbers on strike (like mighty gorgons) and possibly have less hit points and then the Incorporeal ability - or the Spectral Dragons should be Incorporeal, or have some other special.


its funny thats just after laughing of how rediculos it is that your death knight has killed 90 treants in late game you want to give the same potential power to your wraith - imagine your 1 wraith attacks a group of 100 black dragons and kill 10 of them...

anyone saying that the wraith ability to kill 1 creature is useless should try to see how "easy" it is to kill a pheonix with 2k hit points summoned by enemey wizard!!!

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted June 07, 2006 04:05 PM
Edited by alcibiades at 16:07, 07 Jun 2006.

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Death Knights death blow ability is too strong, kill half a stack and 25% chance, Too dangerous.

I think death blow should just be double damage or maybe like a death stare, then they can put them into necropolis as a level 6.



Certainly, that's just way too stupid, I had like 10 Death Knights killing 90 Ancient Treants the other day ... *lol* Fortunately, it was late game and didn't matter, but it doesn't make any sense at all. It should be like Heroes III - give double damage - or, kill 10 % x number of Death Knights.

Also, I think the Wraith special is pretty lame. It's an activated ability, that will let you kill ONE creature! Wow ... that's really usefull in late game. And it's not like the Spectral Dragon has spectacular specials as well ... I think they Wraith should have the ability to kill 10 % of their numbers on strike (like mighty gorgons) and possibly have less hit points and then the Incorporeal ability - or the Spectral Dragons should be Incorporeal, or have some other special.


its funny thats just after laughing of how rediculos it is that your death knight has killed 90 treants in late game you want to give the same potential power to your wraith - imagine your 1 wraith attacks a group of 100 black dragons and kill 10 of them...

anyone saying that the wraith ability to kill 1 creature is useless should try to see how "easy" it is to kill a pheonix with 2k hit points summoned by enemey wizard!!!



You misunderstand my point: I want the Wraiths to have the Death Strike ability similar to the Death Stare of the Gorgons of Heroes 3. That is, Death Strike kills 10 % x NUMBER OF WRAITHS and not 10 % x NUMBER OF ATTACKED CREATURES. That's the mistake with the Death Knights, the number should never depend on the defenders multitude, but always the attackers. In that way, it won't get overpowered.

But you are right on your other point, the harm touch will be usefull against the Phoenix.

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Gus
Gus


Known Hero
Not-So-Bright Crusader
posted June 07, 2006 04:25 PM

Quote:
It would be interesting to see the Haven town have a nemesis in both Necropolis and Inferno.  

Paladin - Death Knight

Angel - Devil

It would really be nice to see some more variety with the level seven creatures.  Half of them dragons?  Blah!  The wraith would be so much more unique imo.

Since in this game, the Necros are renegade Wizards, i would love to see the Bone/Spectral Dragon replaced by Bone Golems of sort, more similar to the Giant/Titan than to the omnipresent Dragons.
Still, the idea of having a Death Kniggit as tier-6 and Wraith as tier-7 is seducing as well.
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If Pacman had affected us as kids we'd be running around in dark rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music.

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