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| Thread: Heroes 4 features to come back |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted July 11, 2006 11:21 AM |
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Blocking the nearest of your towns with another hero just greys out your Town Portal spell. You cannot direct the town you warp to; it's either the closest, or none at all.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 11, 2006 02:16 PM |
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I thought as much ... but what a pitty, would have been a nice loophole to the "old" townportal. 
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van
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 11, 2006 03:17 PM |
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Yes to all.
Plus LOS and FOW
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I_HaT3_CT
Adventuring Hero
XJapan Fan (Rusty Nails)
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posted July 11, 2006 03:57 PM |
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I have played H1-H4 and i felt that H4 has that kind of vibrant feeling of all the Homm series. Im one the ppl who feel that H3 is some what a bit similar to H2, only that H2 is better  (IMHO)
Well, heres my favourite features in H4 and of course the solution to improve on it so as not to spoil the gameplay. I would kindly appreciate all feedbacks. Happy to hear someone to dis me on this one, sine i think it is quite impossible for Nival and Ubi to change anything. So here goes:
-Heroes in combat (For this, i feel that the heroes are overpowered. My Life/Combat Hero can solo Black Dragons with no other untis =))
Suggestions for improvement:
I feel that this can be put in as optional. Like maybe in the map. Whether or not to allow Heroes to participate in Battles. Like for example, i wanna make some RPG maps that only involve Heroes in Combat, and maybe even set some RPG dialogs during combat, that would be fun and cool. Not only that we are able to play standard games on some maps, but also Heroes VS Heroes games on some maps.
-Disabling creatures structure (The one which for example after you finish building a Harpy Nest, you cannot build the Nomad's Tent)
Suggestion for improvement:
Easy, just apply upgrade. But maybe with this on some level of creature's structure. Like for the Harpy Nest and the Nomad's Tent, you can choose one of them. Either one you choose, the other will be disabled. But you can continue to upgrade the Harpy Nest. Also like for example, this can only have perhaps 2 per town. Thus not all creature's structures have this disabled thing.
-Retaliation at the same time (This is my favourite stratedgy feature. Just use logic to imagine. If you hit someone, won't he retaliate at the same time as you hit??)
Suggestion for improvement:
This is more easy. Make a new stratedgic feature. Enable backstab. That means, if a creature is behind the monster, then when the creature attacks, the damage will be dealt before the monster retailiate. However, if attack from the side and front, the retaliation will occur at the same time. Also one more new features could be put in, accuracy. Like if the creature hit from the front, there is a 60% chance the hit will strike, for the retaliation party, the accuracy will be slightly lower, like for example 40%. This would promote the good stratedgic placement of the unit on the battlefield if he does not want to be backstab. Finally, for the range units, the base accuracy is 75%. By attacking behind, it would be 100%. Also if the range unit has achery(Expert) skill, its accuracy will be increase by 15%. Damage increment of the skill will also be tweaked.
Finally
-FoW (Fog of War) (What is a good stratedgy games without FoW. You have seen Red Alert 2/Warcraft/Starcraft and of course some GBA TBS like Advance Wars. They all have FoW and it is great fun as you must think twice before making moves, either to attack or defend. This can greatly increase the chances of backstabing, movement coordinating and finally, the fun of suspension and the suspicion of whether your opponent will backstab you. People who thinks that FoW is bad is because they have played H2 and H3 for too long and thus, not getting use to it (IMO). For me it is like this, i have also experience this sort of feelings before, but after you get use to it, this feature may be of course one of the best in H4.)
Suggestion for improvement: NONE! 
Above are the four features i want to have a comeback which seems very impossible. Happy commenting 
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METAL!! Addict. The Music Maniax of Asia. Band of Choice -- (XJapan, Metallica and Iron Maiden)
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 14, 2006 09:36 AM |
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I understand the reasoning for Fog Of War. However, in Heroes, I generally do not think it's a good idea. It simply makes it impossibly to plan anything ahead in the game. When you can't see a Hero approaching your town, and you haven't got Town Portal to help you, there's virtually nothing to do to plan a deffense of your towns. For that reason I say good riddance to the Fog Of War.
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RaZmuShaDoW
Known Hero
The Sync Bug Hunter
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posted July 14, 2006 10:24 AM |
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Quote:
I understand the reasoning for Fog Of War. However, in Heroes, I generally do not think it's a good idea. It simply makes it impossibly to plan anything ahead in the game. When you can't see a Hero approaching your town, and you haven't got Town Portal to help you, there's virtually nothing to do to plan a deffense of your towns. For that reason I say good riddance to the Fog Of War.
You have to use more scouts then. As in all strategic games. But I also do not think that FoW is a good idea for HOMM.
Although more strategy on the combat map (like backstabind) is quite a good/logical idea.
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What’s the point of being a renegade if you still have to pay taxes?
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SCKnight
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 15, 2006 02:37 AM |
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It was always a pain to have to keep going back and forth to the watermill. I've never played HMM IV, but you had to do the same thing in HMM I and II.
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B0rsuk
Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
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posted July 15, 2006 09:20 AM |
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Edited by B0rsuk at 09:23, 15 Jul 2006.
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Quote:
It was always a pain to have to keep going back and forth to the watermill. I've never played HMM IV, but you had to do the same thing in HMM I and II.
In Heroes4, you just flag it and it's done.
I disagree with criticism of Fog of War. For the first time (in H4) it made scouting skill usable.
It can cripple strategy like in Warcraft3 (or any other blizzard rts). These games have no proper scouting tools, this is bad for both strategy and tactics. But Warcraft3 never pretended to be anything more than a micromanagement/fast_clicking contest.
I think it implemented best in otherwise mediocre game - Emperor: Battle For Dune. Yet another upolished EA game; biggest issue was big units/buildings, pathfinding.
In Emperor, there was fog of war, but as it is the case with C&C-like games, sight radius to unit speed/range ratio was much better than in blizzard games, meaning you could actually react to an attack, and formations mattered.
Besides, Emperor had special Scout infantry, which was the cheapest unit, fast, great sight radius, and invisible when stationary. It was possible to spam map with them, but they were also possible to wipe out with some effort.
But the best feature was that fog of war didn't regrow immediately, but slowly, something like 1 square per 30 seconds, more less. So scouting an area allowed you to see it for a while, even if the scout just died.
Fog of war can be implemented properly, but if it's too much pain in the ass, you need to adjust unit/hero sight radius, and perhaps make the fog reappear gradually. Properly implemented Fog of War allows for sneaky strategies; it adds one more factor to the game.Alternatively, it allows to keep your opponent in the dark if you're serious about scout hunting. In classic Homm game it's impossible to sneak except in earliest stages of the game.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5um8QWWRvo RSA Animate - Smile or die
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Shauku83
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 15, 2006 03:47 PM |
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Why do everyone keep comparing Warcraft to Heroes
Firts of all, if your base is attacked in Warcraft by surprise (Fog of War) you can always order your troops there to fight. It doen't take long.
In Heroes if anemy attacks your castle, you get no changes to bring reinforcements -> you have to fight with what you got. Whether it be one Gremlin or ten, the entire Base is gone after that fight
Please do not compare rts strategies to tbs ones, they are very different.
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Haldowan
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 21, 2006 03:02 PM |
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Edited by Haldowan at 15:03, 21 Jul 2006.
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Quote:
I disagree with criticism of Fog of War. For the first time (in H4) it made scouting skill usable.
It can cripple strategy like in Warcraft3 (or any other blizzard rts). These games have no proper scouting tools, this is bad for both strategy and tactics. But Warcraft3 never pretended to be anything more than a micromanagement/fast_clicking contest.
We didn't play the same game or you were pretty bad at it, that's all I have to say. Go on battle.net and reach some good level without scouting. It's impossible... Strategy in war3 is different but scouting the MOST important thing to do. If you don't look what your opponent is doing he will counter you like archers vs flying units or anti-melee strategy or anti-spellcasters unit. If your opponent build one expansion and you don't he will bring you down once you have no gold.
Elves scouting units are wisp who can be on any tree of the map. Huntress and Priestress of the moon with owl.
Orcs with farseer summoned wolves and one spell which I forgot the name. The blademaster with his mirror images.
Undead have shadows. The perfect scouting unit. Shadows are invisible and see invisible units.
Human. They have sorceress spell called Invisibility. Sounds good huh ?
There are gobelin buildings with scouting abilities. All flying units are good for this too.
Don't say such things when you don't know anything please... You were poor at this game I think but maybe I am wrong.
Quote:
Please do not compare rts strategies to tbs ones, they are very different.
Good point 
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted August 27, 2006 12:38 PM |
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-Moving creatures without heroes was useful,I mean,if u don't want to go recruit creatures when you're away,they'll come to you,but no,I can't say I miss that feature.
-Caravans-indifferent
-The daily growth was a terrible feature 
-The master and grandmaster skills -indifferent
-Heroes fight and can be killed in battles: The Gathering Storm showed the finer points of this feature,it gets my vote.
-Flaging weekly generators deliver resources: indifferent
-Retaliation happens at the same time as attacking-a terrible feature
-Creatures cannot be upgraded reminds me of H1: A Strategic Quest,but 3DO really made a big mistake when they made this feature.
-Making choices
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Unixmage
Known Hero
Demon Slayer
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posted August 27, 2006 04:07 PM |
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I voted for none of them. Heroes 4 was a nightmare.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 27, 2006 10:33 PM |
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What a useful comment ... clearly, you gave the matter a lot of thought. 
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DragonLord3000
Known Hero
Romanian flamethrower
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posted September 13, 2006 10:22 PM |
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Heeeeeeeeeeaaaarrr my story......
to me heroes 4 wasn't a great game,but wasn't a dissapointement.It just seemed very hard to me because of the economical problems.After a month or two,stoped playing,just occasional......Time passed by(4 years),now I am installing heroes 5 hoping in the reinventation of the series and a new era or something,this was in late june,after exams.Played it in almost every minute of next 12 days,and either I didn't see the bad aspects of the game or it didn't have any.finished game,played again and my computer had a problem so i had to take it to maintenance..........................summmer...........................The n in late august I had my computer,reinstalled heroes,and after that I started to realize the errors,bugs which I sometimes noticed during the first time I played it but ignored them,WOW!!It seemed far from the Divine game i was expecting and almost had.And now I am seeing that the best heroes I have ever played in original idea was the 4th one.Although the best one for me will still remain heroes 3.
Not trying to burry past conflicts,just working on accepting them....
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hot peppers are an ilusion.they do not exist.
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zatoichi
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 26, 2006 08:20 PM |
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Edited by zatoichi at 20:22, 26 Sep 2006.
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Moving creatures without heroes: Yes please. More micromanagment, more mindless time consuming clicking and lvl 1 creatures splitting, make life even more miserable for map creators, please make scouting skill a wasted slot and map exploring and resource finding as brain dead as possible. Hell no!
Caravans: Wonderful for XL and maps with many towns. Yes please.
Daily growth of creatures: Woot? Why would anyone want this silly feature back? Gameplay people. It's all about the gameplay and enjoying yourselves. Remember how happy those Mondays can be? It's just one of those HoMM4 features which pretends to bring more realism into game and what it really does is makes the game less enjoyable and unique, and more boring and plain looking. If waiting besides your town at the end of each weak for your creatures is boring, how do you call waiting for them every day?
The master and grandmaster skill ranks: Yes, if implemented in a balanced manners.
Heroes fight and can be killed in battles: Hell no! Just one of those HoMM4 features...
Flagging weekly generators (like waterwheels) deliver resources:
Actually... No. Get your lazy ass out of the town and earn that 1000 gold.
Retaliation happens at the same time as attacking: Hell no! Just one of those HoMM4 features...
Creatures cannot be upgraded: No way.
Making Choices of which creatures to build at your castle:
Yes if they're gonna double the number of existing creatures in Heroes.
So... Probably no.
Neutral creatures move and guard mines and treasures:
Again. One of those features...
Return the item slots that wear removed:
Most definitely yes.
The castle battle and the war machines:
I'm happy as it is now.
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SoRHunter
Hired Hero
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posted September 27, 2006 11:23 AM |
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Here are my 2 cents (by the way, I'm a Heroes IV lover)
Moving creatures without heroes
I liked this feature, but it is not essencial. It is fun to move the creatures around (mainly to join my maisn hero) but, as they gain no experience, they need a hero anyway (one that not boosts their stats, but one who fights along with them).
Caravans
One fantastic possibility! The ability to exchange creatures between castles is great: although you could have heroes that were faster, you could simply rally all the selected creatures to one castle. Usually, I didn't use it that often, because my main hero needed to learn new spells; but sometimes I would send the hero along with the creatures.
Daily growth of creatures
I liked this feature as well. Although the manual said that it only worked on lower difficulty levels; I believe that in the hardest, the creature growth was similar to previous Heroes, ie, at the end of the week (by the way, the first day of the week is Sunday, not Monday )
The master and grandmaster skill ranks
I admit I haven't played Heroes V all that much; I am still a little confused by the level-ups. I did like Heores IV though.
Heroes fight and can be killed in battles
Finally! The heroes were no longer gods on the battlefield but rather fight and kill (and get killed) as any other creature. At the beggining they were frail, but Combat helped. It consumed one slot, but it was important in order to have a sturdy hero. And we could have more than one hero in each army! I usually have two (recruiting all my primary creatures) or three (leaving one low-level creature at home).
Flaging weekly generators (like waterwheels) deliver resources
Less micromanagement = .
Retaliation happens at the same time as attacking
Not essencial. You just have to change your strategy accordingly.
Creatures can not be upgraded
Please! No more upgrades! I hate upgrading.  Most of the time I just try to build my castle and upgrade the dwelings as fast as possible, not taking into consideration the benefits for the buck I spend. I know it is not a smart strategy. 
Making Choices of which creatures to build at your castle (i.e hydra or black dragon)
Yes please! In Heroes IV we have more creatures to choose. And if we get to castles from our main faction, we can have all the cratures (not in the same army, because of the slot limitations, but we could choose which ones to include in the [main] army). It adds lots of strategy to the gameplay (shall I build the black dragon dwelling and get one each week or go with hydras and get more?). And isn't strategy what the game is all about?
Nothing! heroes 4 was terrible in all aspects
I believe that those who can say this wanted to have a new Heroes III (like an expansion of some sort) than the new game 3DO did do.
And the vote goes for: [drums roll] Creatures can not be upgraded.  I can't stress enough that I hate it!
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zatoichi
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 27, 2006 12:48 PM |
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Edited by zatoichi at 14:34, 27 Sep 2006.
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Holy moly!
Those were your sincere answers or you were trying to piss me off?
Two of us can't seem to agree on almost anything 
Concerning the first day of the week...
Monday is held to be the first day of the week only in most of Europe, Asia, and South America. Sunday is the first day of the week in United States, Canada, and in parts of Africa. You gotta fight that idolon specus of yours 
Oh BTW, ISO 8601, the international standard on representation of dates and times in data interchange, defines Monday as the first day of the week
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B0rsuk
Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
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posted September 27, 2006 01:13 PM |
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Quote:
We didn't play the same game or you were pretty bad at it, that's all I have to say. Go on battle.net and reach some good level without scouting.
As a matter of fact, I played war3 a lot and got bored with it. Scouting is piss poor in war3. You pretty much only scout enemy buildings, because
i) once you build an army, you're stuck with it. Buildings build very long compared to unit speed, and cost quite a bit. On top of that there's a very unnatural, gamey limitation called 'upkeep', which can prevent you from building a big army unless you saved more money before training an army.
ii) high unit speed combined with low sight radius and low range for shooting units means formations are next to useless and very hard to keep. Combat feels as if units were using waterguns, you can dance around enemy units for a long time (compared to other rts games). Once an enemy attacks from fog of war in war3, it's much too late to pretend any kind of formations exist, it becomes instant melee.
Have you ever played Emperor:Battle For Dune ? In my opinion the best implementation of scouting in an rts. Despite game's other flaws, it had features never present in Blizzard rts games, such as range-that-matters, variable unit speeds, formations (you'd hate to get attacked from flank), etc. Scouts are very cheap, don't require lots of micoromanagement, are stealthy, shroud regrows slowly so you see enemy coming and prepare, etc.
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Elves scouting units are wisp who can be on any tree of the map. Huntress and Priestress of the moon with owl.
The only thing you can scout with a wisp is building. Last time I checked priestess was quite unpopular hero, usually replaced by keeper for rushes and silly elf for other uses. Even battlenet strategy guide calls priestess 'an often overlooked hero'. Main reason people use her is starfall, and they prefer damage dealing skills.
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Orcs with farseer summoned wolves and one spell which I forgot the name. The blademaster with his mirror images.
Last time I checked farseer was just wolves (rushing) and chain lightning for omgomgomgomgdiekthx111!. Farsight has to be one of most underused skills ever, even if it's impressive at higher levels. Anyway, TC is much better army support with Stomp and aura. And romantics use blademaster.
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Undead have shadows. The perfect scouting unit. Shadows are invisible and see invisible units.
Funny how many people complain they don't use frost wyrms because they require 'most useless building in the game' - sacrificial pit.
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Human. They have sorceress spell called Invisibility. Sounds good huh ?
Actually, it doesn't. If I remember correctly, invisibility comes even later than shades, is more hassle to use, and nowhere as effective.
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Don't say such things when you don't know anything please... You were poor at this game I think but maybe I am wrong.
'C&C' scouting and blizzard scouting are simply not the same league. Same with Total Annihilation - totally different approach to scouting, unit speed, range, formations... I'm afraid you won't understand if you never played games I mentioned. And information you get from scouting (in other games)actually matters for a while, because your units need more than 10 seconds to cross the map, you can't teleport your entire army (if at all) etc. In war3 scouting is next to useless for tactical use, it only works for strategical use (buildings = what army he might have).
I still think Heroes4 did it right with fog of war that regrows. Heroes5 = you play until first big battle. It was always the case in Homm, but now it's more than ever, especially with smaller maps and simplified game.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5um8QWWRvo RSA Animate - Smile or die
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 27, 2006 04:05 PM |
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Quote:
Moving creatures without heroes: Yes please. More micromanagment, more mindless time consuming clicking and lvl 1 creatures splitting, make life even more miserable for map creators, please make scouting skill a wasted slot and map exploring and resource finding as brain dead as possible. Hell no!
Flagging weekly generators (like waterwheels) deliver resources:
Actually... No. Get your lazy ass out of the town and earn that 1000 gold.
Zatoichi > I think you made a very nice reply to this post, but how do you explain the concistency in those two replies? Less micromanagement, please ... NOW ... So, return of flagging of waterwheels etc. - Yes!
Imagine if you had to visit your mines each day to get the ressources they provide. 
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zatoichi
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 27, 2006 04:18 PM |
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I see your point alcibiades, but that is exactly why I wrote "Actually... No."
I think that you have to EARN that 1000 gold by spending your heroes move points and/or risk being attacked by enemy hero. I don't see it that windmill should get you money/resources every week just because you flagged it 3 months ago. But I don't feel strongly about it.
Unlike heroeless armies and daily growth of creatures
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