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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Heroes V Manual and Reference Guides - Made by Fans, Approved by Ubisoft
Thread: Heroes V Manual and Reference Guides - Made by Fans, Approved by Ubisoft [ This thread is 15 pages long: 1 (2) 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 ]
Maurice
Maurice


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Part of the furniture
posted August 04, 2006 08:25 AM

I've gone over the towns and their specialties, comparing them as I went with my own findings. There are several discrepancies, which I want to bring up.

First, it might be a nice idea to split out the various cities based on if they are campaign towns only, or generic towns (which can occur on any map). For instance, the city of Hikm, or Syris Thalla appear to be campaign towns only.

In addition, there are some missing cities (these are generic cities, that can appear in multi-player games):
Necropolis
Sumu-ilum is missing, it has the same bonus as Sumu-irkin
Haven
Talonguard is missing, but this town's bonus is unknown; the Biography says "Undefined" and I have not been able to detect any benefit for this town at all; probably forgotten by Nival
Academy
Bahiyaa is missing, it has the same bonus as Yafiah

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WHUforEurope
WHUforEurope

Tavern Dweller
posted August 04, 2006 09:34 AM
Edited by ThE_HyDrA at 12:53, 04 Aug 2006.

Re: P A Sossi

Bad news Vladd, P A Sossi is a good friend of mine, and he is in fact the Hydra. Unfortunately, I have been unable to con any information out of him regarding the expansion or further patches, but I do know that the 2 factions to be added have been decided on (Still have no idea what they are The fact that a 204 page manual has been made to accomodate players is a further reason for delays. Hang in there, the updates are coming

Also, for those who are experincing further multiplayer difficulties, I would think they would be fixed in patch 1.03, as The Hydra himself is unable to play online due to a bug So it doesn't happen just to you

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Muerte
Muerte


Adventuring Hero
posted August 04, 2006 07:09 PM

I'm probably the only person here fascinated that it took almost 3mbs more to create the manual in Russian and Spanish than it did in English. No wonder foreign diplomacy is so difficult, it's almost like we were speaking different languages or something!

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alcibiades
alcibiades

Hero of Order
and Light
posted August 06, 2006 08:55 AM
Edited by alcibiades at 09:04, 06 Aug 2006.

Quote:
Powerrating? No such thing Nival has.

Iirc, that was just subjective ranking from AOH, to present to us another way of unit comparison. That's why it's not in this manual, as it's not as 'definate' as other stats. :-)



Sorry, but that is wrong. The Powerrating is an integral thing to the game, you will find each creature Power listed in the creature stat file - you can read more about this in the modders workshop (I think the path is data > game mechanics > ref tables > creatures or something like that). The Powerrating is something the developers have ascribed to each creature, and it might be subjective, but I hardly think so, since that would be very much out of line with the game. Furthermore, I've been able to reproduce the powerrating fairly well mathematically for most units, but it'd still be nice to have the exact formula (if such a one exists).

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sfidanza
sfidanza


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted August 09, 2006 03:07 AM

So, let's try to give some honest answer or reaction to your latest feedback.

- Power Rating: alcibiades is right. The values on AoH are taken from the game files, and alcibiades has been doing a great job at trying to reproduce the formula. We will try to ask Nival about it (the formula), but I don't guarantee anything.

- Town Specialties (@Maurice): we anticipated the release of the editor, that's why we didn't split the campaign-only cities, since they could very well be found in MP maps shortly.
* Sumu-ilum: Where did you see that city? The description of Sumu-irkin incorrectly uses that name, but I've found no other reference to it.
* Talonguard has no bonus. That's why it's not in the list. It could be, though, but the title says Town Specializations.
If we do however, we would have to add the 19 or so towns without bonus (Barrington, Yellowtail, Forkriver...).
* Bahiyaa is a duplicate from Yafiah, with an incorrect official description. That's why it's out. But you're right, it should be there.

- The russian and spanish manuals have a few more artworks, hence the oversize.

- Weakness formula: the damage range of the target is decreased. The minimum damage (min) doesn't change, but max is reduced to:
min+t*(max-min)
with t=50%, 35%, 20%, 0% depending on the mastery.
Let's assume the hero has Basic Dark Magic: t=35%
say the target is a Hydra: 7-14 damage.
max=14 is reduced to 7+(14-7)*35%=9.45, which gives the weakened damage range: 7-9.45

Let's do the same for Divine Strength: here, the min damage is increased to
min+t*(max-min)
with t=50%, 65%, 80%, 100% depending on Light Magic mastery.
Let's assume Basic Light Magic, and still the Hydra as target:
min damage is increased to 7+(14-7)*65%=11.55, which gives the boosted damage range: 11.55-14

I hope that's a little clearer.

- Map of Ashan: I'm afraid this won't happen. We could ask Ubi if they would agree to release an high res image of the map, but I doubt they would do so, as it is/was the main bonus in the Collector's Edition. Although they released the additional maps as bonus maps, so it may be worth asking...

That's all for today. Keep more coming!

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Dux
Dux

Tavern Dweller
posted August 09, 2006 06:43 AM

Great work, guys, thanks a lot for your effort. I've been asking some questions during the last months and, with the manual, I have now he answers. I was extremey delighted by the formulas, especially those related to mini-artifacts - and I finally found how to balance the heroes of diferrent factions due to their special abilities and skills. Fine pictures also, congrats. I'll rank the manual as excelent.

About patches - I don't know who "played" with some of the maps, but now there are many bugs on maps that were ok before patch 1.2. For example, on Land of Outcasts, the sawmill of yellow player is not accessible; so is the Marletto tower near the green player. And many more. It will be great if the next patch will fix these problems without creating new ones.  
____________
Dux of Transylvania

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Maurice
Maurice


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Part of the furniture
posted August 09, 2006 07:20 AM
Edited by Maurice at 07:25, 09 Aug 2006.

Quote:
- Town Specialties (@Maurice): we anticipated the release of the editor, that's why we didn't split the campaign-only cities, since they could very well be found in MP maps shortly.
* Sumu-ilum: Where did you see that city? The description of Sumu-irkin incorrectly uses that name, but I've found no other reference to it.
* Talonguard has no bonus. That's why it's not in the list. It could be, though, but the title says Town Specializations.
If we do however, we would have to add the 19 or so towns without bonus (Barrington, Yellowtail, Forkriver...).
* Bahiyaa is a duplicate from Yafiah, with an incorrect official description. That's why it's out. But you're right, it should be there.


Ahh, but who knows how long it will take before Nival / Ubisoft are done with the map editor? But anyway, I didn't check out the campaign cities during my tests, so I didn't encounter them.

When I checked the city boni, I tested it on an 8-player map. Heritage, I believe. I simply launched the game as an 8-player Hot Seat match, with 8 identical factions. After several runs, most cities appeared at least once for me (in fact, I only missed 2 cities in the end, both of which made their appearance later on during a single player match anyway , out of like 95 cities in total). These tests only generated cities that could appear in multi-player, not in the campaign mode or scenario mode.

Sumu-ilum was one of the Necropoli that appeared during these test runs, holding the description of the other one.

Regarding Talonguard, I can't assume anything else than that Nival / Ubisoft accidently overlooked this city when it came to assigning city boni, so I would classify this as a bug. For completeness sake, I would add it to the manual, since I suspect that this town will get fixed in the (near?) future, and it's a multiplayer town - as opposed to the other 19, since I didn't find any other towns without a bonus

I guess those 19 are campaign towns? Or just not used at all? Hmm, in the latter case, that might also explain why there is such a difference in available town specialisations across the factions on multiplayer. Some have relatively few while some have many (Inferno: 16, Academy: 16, Dungeon: 19, Necropolis: 15, Haven: 14, Sylvan: 15). Coupled to the bugs - especially with the rare resource towns - I would wish that Nival / Ubisoft would flesh this out properly, balancing it, fixing the bugs and clearly listing the concrete benefits.

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Miru
Miru


Supreme Hero
A leaf in the river of time
posted August 09, 2006 07:56 PM

I have seen several typos and bugs in it (I pick up errors really good. Im a critic)

One thing I dont get is, in both the skilll wheels, and skill trees it says warlock cant get resistance, because it requires three other defense abilities, and three is all you can have.
____________
Hath not the potter power over
the clay, of the same lump to
make one vessel unto honor,
and another unto dishonor?

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scytheavatar
scytheavatar

Tavern Dweller
posted August 12, 2006 03:53 AM

The ubisoft download server has been down for a long time already. Does anyone know of a mirror for this manual? Thanks.
____________

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sfidanza
sfidanza


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted August 12, 2006 01:19 PM

@Miru: if you have a list, you can send it to me. I sent you my email address via HCM.
About Resistantce for the Warlock, you're right. It's not a bug in the manual, it's a bug in the game. That's how Nival made it, and it's still not fixed as of patch 1.2.

@scytheavatar: the dowload link is working fine.
If you have problems downloading, it may be your firewall or your ISP blocking the ftp protocol.

@Maurice: Yes, town specs is clearly an area where things could be made smoother. I'd like each bonus to get an icon, displayed on the city, with its description. And the architecture should also be cleaned up, as it is a mess right now. The same is true for creature abilities, btw.
These are minor points in the overall game, as I think Nival did a really great job at this kind of things (skills, hero specs...), and I hope they'll improve it in the addon.

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Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted August 12, 2006 08:42 PM

If only they improved the stats allocation.Can deal with it but a necro with 1 knowledge and 15% chance for more is funny A toast to the new fixes!
____________
So the next time your cat leaves a bleeding, twitching corpse on your doormat, remember that she loves you and is just trying to bring out your inner predator.

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conchaivn
conchaivn

Tavern Dweller
posted August 17, 2006 05:55 PM

hi everybody,
i have some question about initiative described in the manual.
So the formula is ATB = t*initiative/10.  Is t here the real time?
Lets say a stack's ATB gets to 1, but the player dont act right away so it must wait for the player's action.  In the mean time, other stacks also get their ATB to 1.  What happen then?  Will they all wait in order.  If so, when the player decide to act the first stack in the order, he will have a list of stacks waiting for him to act after that first stack, so the idea of one stack got to move twice before some other stack can be avoided if the player decide to cheat by waiting a bit long before acting?
____________

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Maurice
Maurice


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Part of the furniture
posted August 17, 2006 10:20 PM

When you let a stack wait, you lose half a turn of initiative for that stack.

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conchaivn
conchaivn

Tavern Dweller
posted August 17, 2006 10:45 PM

I guess i need to explain a bit more.  i didnt' mean wait as a command in the game, but i meant wait as you as a player don't do anything, just sit there staring at the screen.  Since the t in the formula ATB = t*initiative/10 is real time (or is it?), the ATB is supposed to keep increasing while i am staring at my screen.  So when all the stack on the battle field have ATB = 1 they will all wait in order.  However, as in the manual suggest, it is possible to have a stack strike twice b4 some other stack even get to act.  I pictured that as this: i use my emerald dragon to hit someone, then my dragon's ATB will go back to 0.  But because its Initiative is so high, it goes back to 1 before a golem's ATB even gets to 1.  So it got to strike again.  But what if: The combat start, my dragon is the first to move.  However, I dont act on my dragon but just stare at the screen until the golem's ATB also gets to 1.  AT that time, i begin to act on my dragon.  After the action, the dragon's ATB is depleted while the golem's ATB is already at 1, so its the golem's turn now, and the dragon didn't get to strike twice like the other case.

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Vorticon
Vorticon

Tavern Dweller
posted August 18, 2006 01:09 AM

Awsome manual!!!!

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conchaivn
conchaivn

Tavern Dweller
posted August 18, 2006 04:38 AM

can nobody explain that to me?

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Maurice
Maurice


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Part of the furniture
posted August 18, 2006 08:56 AM

Ahh, I understand now ... but that's not possible in the current set up. It's a turn-based sequence of events and while the relative follow-up order is determined by initiative, the very *start* of the sequence seems random. I guess they did this to prevent the same creatures from starting always over and over again, while others have to wait in line to act once the battle starts.

However, creatures that act more often will also automatically act early from the start.

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conchaivn
conchaivn

Tavern Dweller
posted August 18, 2006 06:05 PM

lol, u still didn't get the point.  Sorry for my english thats the best i can explain.
____________

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alcibiades
alcibiades

Hero of Order
and Light
posted August 19, 2006 10:20 PM

Quote:
I guess i need to explain a bit more.  i didnt' mean wait as a command in the game, but i meant wait as you as a player don't do anything, just sit there staring at the screen.  Since the t in the formula ATB = t*initiative/10 is real time (or is it?), the ATB is supposed to keep increasing while i am staring at my screen.  So when all the stack on the battle field have ATB = 1 they will all wait in order.  However, as in the manual suggest, it is possible to have a stack strike twice b4 some other stack even get to act.  I pictured that as this: i use my emerald dragon to hit someone, then my dragon's ATB will go back to 0.  But because its Initiative is so high, it goes back to 1 before a golem's ATB even gets to 1.  So it got to strike again.  But what if: The combat start, my dragon is the first to move.  However, I dont act on my dragon but just stare at the screen until the golem's ATB also gets to 1.  AT that time, i begin to act on my dragon.  After the action, the dragon's ATB is depleted while the golem's ATB is already at 1, so its the golem's turn now, and the dragon didn't get to strike twice like the other case.


The t is not REAL TIME but action time. Your calculations are entirely correct except for the fact that t does only increase between turns. Consider your Emerald Dragons have turn as you say. While you wait for the Dragons to act, t is stagnant. Then, when you take action, the ATB of Dragons is reduced to 0, and t starts to increase (which is a momentary process) until the next unit has ATB = 1. When this happens, t stops growing (the clock stops, you can say) until this unit has acted, and so forth.

Alternatively, look at it this way: t measures the time on an artificial clock. It is similar to real time, but only runs between unit turns. Whenever a unit has turn, it stops until unit has acted. You just don't see the gap between turns because your computer calculates very fast, similar to the time t running very very fast.

I hope this helps.

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Sanyu
Sanyu


Known Hero
posted August 20, 2006 04:44 AM

Help

Really want to get hold of the manual, but somehow comp can't open the file. Can someone email me at stygianstar2005@gmail.com. Thanks.

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