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| Thread: Rate Wake Of Gods! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 27, 2008 06:27 PM |
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Like scripting against the block of the gate. Giving magic mirror against the mass berserk. Giving immunity to slow, blind. Casting automatic dispel every turn in special situations. Giving mass spells casted before and after attack for IA. Increasing the cost of tricky spells. Ban them under certain circumstances. Setting a precise point where AI must all point themselves (enabling armies transfer)
You can even script the AI so he can use effectively hit and run, so he will weak you every turn.
You can script EVERY creature to have up to 8 abilities and they can change from a battle to the next. Thats means that the hydra which you berserked at point A would learn from this experience and at point B will be immune to it. The AI to whom you blocked the gate at point A will learn from it and will have tactics expert at point B while you lose it. If you over use berserk/mass slow, those poor neutrals would learn from it and cast on you those spells next time they fight you.
You use blind/attack/blind trick? Well, AI doesn't like being tricked. If you are catched using it, automatic dispel will be casted from AI side in a random turn.
Anything. Only your imagination has limits with WoG, not WoG itself.
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Era II mods and utilities
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 27, 2008 06:44 PM |
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What's the point?
I mean, an exploit is nice if you can do it under special circumstances - it's a kind of puzzle, if it's a new one, and what I mean is of course that the map is specifically made for the purpose of doing it. For example, even though Barbs can't get Water Magic ordinarily, in Lord of War your Barb will get it for specific purposes.
If, on the other hand you make a specific map where you don't want a certain exploit to be used it's obvious that you must know the exploit, otherwise you cannot script against it.
In that case you can make the map that way that the exploit isn't possible, even without scripting stuff.
If for example you don't want the gate-blocking trick you can just take flying creatures as gaurds. If you don't want specific spells to be used make sure the hero don't get them in the first place, otherwise your map concept could probably be better.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 27, 2008 06:49 PM |
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No. What I am saying is that scripts can create a whole new strategy and improve the existing ones which had been already over played. Everyone now can defeat legions of anything with the right spell/creature.
But just think about the diversity of combos you need for example to defeat such a creature (which use nothing else than HoMM abilities):
Any trick comes to the mind? No. There isn't anyone. You need skill.
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Era II mods and utilities
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 27, 2008 07:11 PM |
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I can do that in standard SoD as well.
Creature experience is - in my opinion - a contraproductive thing because it takes the focus away from the heroes. Basically you are developing both creatures and heroes and what is changed is the relation between a new weekly production as in raw creature mass and in experience as aiding both creatures AND heroes.
To the point of what you are saying, all the creatures with all the abilities are making guarding monsters tougher, but your normal hero monsters are getting better as well. So if you place a certain monster stack with a certain purpose you have to consider a lot more possibilities and that includes the possibility to keep your army small to hand out the experience to a minimum of creatures with the aim to get better creatures faster.
In short, it doesn't gain. It's just a different game.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 27, 2008 07:13 PM |
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Not really, because the purpose of the experience system is to give it as a gift to the AI while human does not profit from it. It is disabled for human. That means that always I will have to defeat this creature while having zero experience.
And it does not make another game, as I am using only abilities from the original game. I only add a new creature, as did SoD over original HoMM. But you will need much more ideas to defeat it than a simple level 7-10. I am happy with WoG because it adds diversity and richness at a moment when we are all tired with SoD and need fresh "blood". But the basics are the same.
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Era II mods and utilities
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted October 27, 2008 07:38 PM |
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Edited by angelito at 19:41, 27 Oct 2008.
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I followed Vlaad's advice and wogified a SOD original random map.
Activated all the features I found interesting. What I do like currently is the "place random garrisons" feature. And also how they are "protected". Cool thing. On the other hand, there are some things which are very surprising, and can be annoying coz of unnecessary reloads.
For example:
- Special abilities of creature you do not have knowledge of.
Santa Gremlins summon tons of protectors. I thought 5 t-birds are enough to fight a horde of this little santas....until they summoned around 250 normal master gremlins as protectors..
- Extra abilities creatures gain with experience levels. And you can't check them before fighting.
I thought a throng of raiders is an easy prey for my Ancients...until I saw which level they were and how many hitpoints they had (28!!) and they also had the "no retail" ability. They destroyed me like nothing..
Same happened with lots of Sharpshooters, or with rebirth ability of trolls. This is very frustrating at the beginning, coz you just don't have knowledge of these features.
Having expert water magic on Gurnisson is also somehting I've never seen before.
Destroying a comp player's first aid tent, but it still "stands alive", even though the info lines says "first aid tent destroyed" made me wonder aswell....until I realized there is more than 1 tent...and you have to destroy them till they are all gone.
I really don't know when to attack which special building, which garrison, coz I fail to know all the possible abilities the creatures could have. Same goes for utopias. Is there any way you can find out what level those creeps inside these special buildings are? otherwise it would just be luck to manage those fights early...
But all in all I do not give up that easy. It is a challenge for a hardcore H3 guy like I am. I disabled all the things I didn't like at all, like artefacts giving creatures every day, or some "special" secondary skill improvements.
I'll keep you informed.....
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 27, 2008 07:46 PM |
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Are you sure they gain extra abilities? If I remember well, you have them already but they need a certain Exp. amount to be activated. You can check if you have them by clicking right mouse then left mouse on the monster screen (it opens abilities panel).
The first tent multiplied means you activated first tent script. It will make fights much harder because the first tent now can ressurect creatures. The number of tents depends of the hero level>.
If you play with experience system enabled, there are exp amounts already fixed for each neutral creature to gain per week. Early game they will be easy, being at same level as you. But after a few months they will have ACE level so more health/attack/speed.
The best is to play with experience disabled for human and enabled for AI, it balance the game.
But...great news!
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 27, 2008 07:47 PM |
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I think I already said I like maps on which every gold piece and Goblin counts - which means that a map on hich I have to beat 16 spiced-up Rust Dragons, probably as a warm up for doing the same with 32 spiced-up Azures is not to my liking. I don't enjoy playing with maxed-out heroes that have 3 full artifact sets.
I doesn't make much sense either if I try and hint on the fact that in regular SoD you have a lot of options to make sure there will be tough fights against tough armies with or without a supporting hero, making things as difficult as they need to be. After lall, this is just ONE game.
Lastly, I don't want to convince anyone WoG sucks - it doesn't. It's just not working well for my personal preferences.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 27, 2008 07:55 PM |
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It was only an example showing what can be done. It can be done with low level creatures.
You care for every gold piece and you are not alone.
In my last map, every spell point costs 20GP(there is no other way to have magic points other than buying them). So once in a fight if you cast 3 times ressurect it will cost you a whole week income from that gold mine. Makes you think twice before playing with magic.
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Era II mods and utilities
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted November 09, 2008 10:58 PM |
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Played a few random wogified maps lately. Despite the fact I haven't had any session without the game freezing by showing an ERM script error, it is quite funny to learn all the new stuff.
I know tried to play the "Cave of Gerfrex" map. It is about the same as with the original campaign: I played till week 3 (200%), and now I have 2 roads to go. First is protected by legions of earth messengers, second by legions of lava sharpshooters. Week 3!! I even checked the editor...no other way. Is that supposed to be a joke?
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted November 09, 2008 11:08 PM |
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That sounds strange. Can you please give the locations of those 2 groups? The map has internal scripts so must not be wogified. There are only 2 groups/legions, vampires and lyches, both near the starting town.
They both vanish after visiting a precise location, after reading the hints and following the story.
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TheUnknown
Known Hero
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posted November 09, 2008 11:19 PM |
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Voted 9 as I didn't wanted to give max score because of the new bugs introduced in the game. It happens sometimes to get stuck and even autosave can't help you.
On the other hand, many of the new enhancements are a direct hit in the gamers hearth, specially that you can customize many of those thus balancing the game as you best see fit.
WoG and Equilibris teams keep up the good work.
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted November 09, 2008 11:50 PM |
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Edited by Vlaad at 04:55, 10 Nov 2008.
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@ angelito
I'm glad you didn't give up on WoG. As for the new features, it does take time to get used to those - but then it's not like learning a whole new game... In fact, I felt the same kind of excitement as when playing Heroes for the first time. Sure, you'll have to load autosave now and then, but now you get to rediscover your favorite game. Frankly, I envy you, because - after a few years of playing WoG - I got bored with all the new stuff and can't wait for any kind of update.
As for the wogifying options, you can right-click on each of those in the wogifying menu and see the details. Personally, I don't like when neutrals are overpowered myself... but do enjoy some secondary skills enhancements (with WoG even Eagle Eye can be fun, at least once in a while  ). But that's the best thing about it - you can customize your game any way you want to.
My current settings are:
- cartographers replaced
- 80% of dragon fly hives replaced
- 25% of external dwellings have upgraded creatures
- 3-8% of neutrals replaced with WoG monsters
- monster/resource weeks
- mithril
- extended creature upgrades
- Neutral Town instead of Conflux
- random neutral hero
- commanders
- henchman
- metamorphs
- 10 secondary skills
- new treasure chests, new artifacts, enhanced old artifacts, living scrolls, commander witch huts, most new objects, banners
Sometimes I like to toy with specialization boosts and secondary skills enhancements, but some of those can easily be abused against the AI.
As for Cave of Gerfrex, it's an RPG map - showing off what ERM can do, but has little to do with strategy and tactics. In addition, like Salamandre said: don't wogify WoG maps.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted November 10, 2008 01:32 PM |
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Ok, figured it out now. My problem is (besides I wogified the map!), I don't like to read all those stories. I always click those messages away and play around. There have been a lot of custom H3 maps I stopped playing after a while coz of that tons of text appearing every 2nd or 3rd day. And they contained of some important info sometimes, so you had to read all. Not my style.
I finished this map only short time before the time ran out (I clicked that hint with pathfinding away too fast.. ), and realized by coincidence my main heroine is not only able to upgrade Goblins to Trolls, but also to lichs! That made it much easier.
I have nearly about the same WOG settings as you have Vlaad. Except this Henchman thing. I like the additional garrison feature though. The thing I still have to learn are the additonal abilities the creatures gain with experience levels. Watching Silver Pegasi acting like Harpy hags is fun
But this makes it a bit hard to estimate if fights vs neutrals are possible, coz you can't see their current experience level (or can you??).
The most interesting building for me so far is the "Death Chamber". What a surprise when I first entered it and thought there is only 1 lichking to fight
And even bigger the szrprise was, when I realized the tactic skill isn't an advantage if you are not able to arrange your units within the first or second move.
And finally the deadliest surprise was when I didn't kill all those units fast enough, so hundreds of ghosts appeared
All in all, I like those new buildings. Makes fun.
I like the new ability of "scouting", where you gain rogues each day. This makes scouts so much more usefull. No ned to bring them back in time. After an amount of time, they have quite a good army so they can do their own fights and explore a bigger region as usual.
But I will go back to my randoms again and learn all the new features before I start the maps again Salamandre sent me.
Will keep you informed.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted November 10, 2008 09:33 PM |
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I put my hand in fire that stories by Fnord are more fun to read than the daily spam you browse in the forums
Besides that, for playing the maps I sent you you dont need to play any randoms or Fnord maps. Fnord maps are the best and the only way to learn properly ERM from a master. But almost all his scenarios are RPG and not using much tactics/strategy. It is all about scripting at the highest level possible.
Random maps are useless just because all those WoG features used together can badly unbalance the game IMHO.
Unfortunately for you all those scripts used by Fnord need stories and again stories. Fnord did not use awesome scripts just to show his genius but to create enthralling scenarios. It is hard to have a legion of vampires vanish without a good story behind. 
Quote:
But this makes it a bit hard to estimate if fights vs neutrals are possible, coz you can't see their current experience level (or can you??).
of course you can: open your creature screen (in hero army screen) now click right-mouse on the creature icon and it wil bring the abilities panel
Or you mean before the fight? No, you cant, but you can estimate their experience by the time spent in game. But almost all creatures are not immune to level one spells even at ACE. Except the level 8 creatures and a few others. So the old good mass slow works same here. Complet pwnage in WoG too with it.
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Era II mods and utilities
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted November 10, 2008 09:42 PM |
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I'm not talking about my own creatures, but the wandering stacks I have to face on the map Salamandre. It makes much of a difference if you have "level 1" hobgoblins to fight, or "level 7".
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted November 10, 2008 09:43 PM |
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Yes, I understood a bit late and edited. Sorry.
Just keep in mind that advanced experience levels add 1-3 to speed, not only abilities. But it is the same for your units, so should not be a problem.
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Era II mods and utilities
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DarK_WisH
Hired Hero
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posted November 21, 2008 02:07 PM |
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mikarica
Tavern Dweller
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posted November 28, 2008 05:10 PM |
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Awesome all the way
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dkolb
Promising
Known Hero
Nay Nay and Aslan Protector
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posted November 29, 2008 11:43 AM |
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voted 9.
HOMM3 is my favorite game of all time and so I knew that it would take alot to impress me. But it managed to impress me. The new features are great and dare I say that the creatures gaining experience aspect is utterly brilliant!
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"...once you bought your first green dragon, there was already a necromancer with six or seven boners out and about-Lord_Wook"
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