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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: The Ultimate Skills Discussion
Thread: The Ultimate Skills Discussion This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT»
EliteKill
EliteKill

Promising

The Starless
posted March 31, 2007 08:51 AM
Edited by EliteKill at 11:43, 31 Mar 2007.

The Ultimate Skills Discussion

Well, I saw many people post many interesting discussions, so I thought I'll do one too.

Do you think Ultimate Skills are worth it?

Here's my opinion:

Academy: Arcane Omniscience

Requirements are pretty.. Well, they're not that good.

Enlightenment is really useless in long games, Scholar isn't used that much, and and both perks give you only a one-time bonus. Only "good" thing is a 15% chance you'll get it when leveling up.

Summoning Magic is actually a good choice for wizards. Conjure Pheonix at high levels can be a pain, especially that when after you kill it the "infinate"-mana Wizard will just cast it again. Raise Dead can also be helpfull in final battles. Banish is a waste, and Wall of Fog isn't too good either. At least you have a 15% chance to get it.

Sorcery, while having a 10% chance, is just a stupid choice for wizards. The time between spells might be good, but the mana perks are just plain bad for Wizards who already have so much mana, while Counterspell might be good.

Attack is almost impossible to get. I mean, 2%!!! But if you are lucky, it does give you Archery which is a nice perk for Academy (having 3 archers), while Tactics is good for Gargoyles and Rakashas, Battle Frenzy is also very good with Gremlins and sometimes Golems.

Now for the Racial Perks. Mark of the Wizard, can be good in final battles, while it can also be a waste of a turn. Magic Mirror, with Galib, can be VERY painful (imagine that: You are a high spellpowered warlock casting an Empowered Implosion on the enemy Titans. Your spell gets lucky, that's even better... When a Magic Mirror strikes and the spell goes against your Hydras or Dragons...).

Magic Omniscience can be good, considering you only have one Magic skill when getting it. On the other hand, how many high level spells are you going to get without those skills? A strategy I thought up was having one hero (main) getting Arcane Omniscience, while another hero learns all of the Magic Skills and Scholar. The second hero teaches the skills to the main hero. I've never tried this strategy.


Sylvan: Nature's Luck

Requirements are OK, although you will miss out in some stuff.

Attack is again good here. Archery can really boost the already good Hunters, while it can help Druids that are out of mana. Tactics can be affective with Pixies and Battle Dancers, who will get to the enemy lines faster. Battle Frenzy can also help Pixies and Battle Dancers, especially Pixies when attacking lots of enemy creatures. 1 more damage for 100 more pixies can be a little helpful. Nature's Wrath, whle having an ugly icon, can be good as it gives one more maximum damage in addition to Battle Frenzy, and Flaming Arrows is very helpful with Balista (especially if you get Imbune Balista). The backfire is that you have only 2% to get it...

Defence, while having a 10% chance, can be prettty helpful. It will take even more time taking those Treants down, and your other low-hp creatures such as pixies will survive longer. Vitality give you even more time to live, so the Treants are now... Annoying. Evasion and Protection can make your Hunters and Druids live longer, and with Ammo Cart this is actually really good. Last Stand may actually save you when your last Pixie has one hp left, an already Imbuned Deadeye Shot and Balista with Fire damage can kill those last creatures. Stand Your Ground is just another perk for making your Treants almost unbrakeable.

Luck is the Sylvan super-skill. with a 15% chance you will get it easialy. Luck is good for every faction, being able to deal twice the normal damage is just outstanding. Resourcefulness can be good in poor maps, and Magic Ressistance can just make those Hunters and Archers survive those Warlock spelld. Soldier Luck will trigger Unicorn's Blinding Attack more often, other than hat it's not that good for Sylvan. Elven Luck will make you deal even more damage when having a lucky attack, while Dead Man's Luck will make the enemy creatures get less lucky attacks or even unlucky attacks. Furthermore, a lucky attack with a critical hit from the Avenger skill is.. Ouch.

Logistics is a skill that mostly affects the Adventure Map. being able to travel up yo 30% more is nice, and the normal perks like Pathfinding can give you even more traveling distances. Sielent Stalker can be good if you have a small army, as the enemy might think you have many low leveled monsters. Familiar Ground is really good for battles, especiall with Tactics: Your pixies and Battle Dancers will be much more of a use than before! Even better, you have 15% chance of getting it.

Avenger Skill perks are good as well. Rain of Arrows isn't as good as the two other, but if you have enemy creatures on your Favorite Enemy list, it can helpfull. Deadeye Shot is OK, especially against creatures in Favorite Enemy list. Imbune Arrow is good at the start of battle, and can be awesome with a critical Deadeye shot.

Finally, we're getting to the actual Ultimate. Nature's Luck is just an amazing Ultimate, having your creatures have lucky attacks every single time. Unless facing Dwarves with Absolute Protectin, this skill will literally make your army twice as strong. Along with critical hit, damage dealt by a single creature can be about 400% more than normal (100%x2(luck)x2(critical hit)=400%!!!)


Fortress: Absolute Protection

Requirements are pretty good.

Destructive Magic is a good skill for the Dwarves. Armageddon+Fire/Magma Deagons=Lots of damage. To that, you can also add Master of Fire and Ignite. That makes a very powerful combination that is worth even if you are not aiming for the Ultimate. Mana Burst can be helpful, but the other perks are definately better. Also, a 10% percent chance make this requirement even better.

Defence is the 15% chance Dwarven skill. Most of the Fortress creatures are good tanks, making defence a pretty good choice. Protection can keep those Thanes and Magma Dragons longer, making it another good choice. Defensive Formation is good when blocking shooters, as both the blockers and the shooters recive the defence boost. Preperation is another good perk for blockers. You defend with your Magma Dragons, than a group of creatures come to attack you, but before they do, you retalirate and finish them off before they can do any harm.

Logistics, while having only a 2% chance, has nice new perks for the Dwarves. Along with reserving and adding movement points, Snatch will save you even more with your scouting heroes. When you're about to flag a mine, that one tile won't decrease your movement points, and that can be useful in large, rich maps. Swift Mind isn't that bad either, giving a faster start with your hero. Not much to say here.

War Machines is a nice skill that lets you have more control over your War Machines. Balista perk lets you control the Balista, AND adds one more shot. This can be effective, as you can take out the wanted small stack with your balista, and not let the stupid AI control it for you. Runic Warmachine will increase the initiative of War Machines, making them more effective on the battlefield because they will act more than usual. Triple Balista will give you even another shot, having your balista fire 3 shots at the wanted target with more effect is realy good. To top it all, you have 15% chance to recive War Machines.

Runelore lets you learn runes: spell like effects that consume resources nstead of mana. Some runes are really good, like Rune of Charge which soubles the speed of a creature for the activated turn. All Dwarven Racial perks, except the Ultimate, have something to do with Runes. Refresh Rune is an activated hero ability which lets you refresh a rune that was already used by a creature. Greater Rune is good for rich maps, where you can activate a rune once more for triple cost.

Now for the Ultimate. Absolute Protection is exactly the opposite of Nature's Luck. Instead of all attacks being lucky, all enemy attacks will be unlucky dealing only half damage. This is excelent to keep your creatures alive longer. When both Absolute Protection and Nature's Luck are active in a battle, Luck is disabled in combat. Absolute Protection can be really annoying for the enemy, dealing only halfof the normal damage.

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Sanyu
Sanyu


Known Hero
posted March 31, 2007 09:44 AM

How do you maintain at zero yellow star?

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted March 31, 2007 10:35 AM
Edited by alcibiades at 10:37, 31 Mar 2007.

The zero yellow star problem is apparantly an error in the site functions. It's not quite understood yet how it has occured.


To go back on topic, I will say that you have a couple of errors in your reasoning, ElliteKill: You have to consider that in order to get the Ultimate Ability, you have no choice in which of the three general abilities in the skills you take. Thus, it does you no good that Archery is a great pick for Sylvan, because you HAVE to take Battle Frenzy in order to get Nature's Luck.

Also, about your alternative strategy with Arcane Omniscience: I'm not sure I get the point - you'll have your main Hero learn Arcane Omniscience (requires level 30+!) and then you will have a secondary hero learn all the spells - but for what ends?
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EliteKill
EliteKill

Promising

The Starless
posted March 31, 2007 10:41 AM

Well, for the first part, I am talking about how to get the Ultimates, but at the same time you can get other stuff. Lets say you have Attack skill and battle fenzy, and you are offered Dark Magic, Advanced Attack, Archery, or Tactics. Sometimes you have choices that do not include anything to do with the Ultimate, and I am pointing that out

About the strategy, your secondary hero wil learn as much spells as possible and Scholar, so he can transfer all of the to the main hero. I have not tested this...

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Halm
Halm


Hired Hero
posted March 31, 2007 11:12 AM

Quote:
Enlightenment is really useless in long games, Scholar isn't used that much, and and both perks give you only a one-time bonus. Only "good" thing is a 15% chance you'll get it when leveling up.




Have a look at the skill again and you will see enlightment really pays of in long games!
Expert enlightment means 10 extra stats when lvl 20. This is usually better than expert attack or defence ... but I think there was already a discussion about but can't find it at the moment.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted March 31, 2007 12:21 PM

Quote:

Academy: Arcane Omniscience

Requirements are pretty.. Well, they're not that good.

Enlightenment is really useless in long games, Scholar isn't used that much, and and both perks give you only a one-time bonus. Only "good" thing is a 15% chance you'll get it when leveling up.


Quite the opposite really. In short games I'll have a magic skill or luck resourcefulness any time because enlightenment will limit your gameplay choices. However in longer games you do not mind if you learn ligh lvl spells later, the xp bonus evens out the lvls of enlightenment AND you get some cool knowledge bonuses for the mini artifacts. For me the only real bonus here is the stats you gain so I might even take it after lvl 16 for immediate benefits. Scholar and arcane intuition isn't appealing but sometimes intelligence helps in some EPIC battles! Otherwise just the basic skill is enough.

Quote:

Summoning Magic is actually a good choice for wizards. Conjure Pheonix at high levels can be a pain, especially that when after you kill it the "infinate"-mana Wizard will just cast it again. Raise Dead can also be helpfull in final battles. Banish is a waste, and Wall of Fog isn't too good either. At least you have a 15% chance to get it.


There is more to it than meets the eye. First of all it is great for creeping. Fire trap is an amazingly good spell(alas for the day it won't appear in your guild ), wasp swarm minimizes casualties and even turns certain defeats into sound victories, phantom forces-no comment , summon elementals can be strangely helpful even though not my first choice(creeps like to target them), firewall is yet another brilliant creep terminator since 1.4/2.0(gives you the option to hit large units twice-when cast in the front row of the unit- or completely annihilate ranged troops) and as for the last two: Have you tried a motw+arcane armour on rakshasas and titans followed by mass endurance? The phoenix is best early but it can deal significant damage later too. If used in this cute combo(arcane armour, righteous magic from archmages and raising dead when its hp are too few) it can survive for an amaxing amount of time and become a true killer. Only earthquake is problematic...Banish is godly vs inferno and wall of fog has its merits though I usually go for other basic skills. Only ability I do not pick is master of life.

Quote:

Sorcery, while having a 10% chance, is just a stupid choice for wizards. The time between spells might be good, but the mana perks are just plain bad for Wizards who already have so much mana, while Counterspell might be good.


Huh? The base skill is essential and arcane training->counterspell just as crucial. With intensive creeping you will need the mana but I will agree that the rest are meh. But who cares, these are the ones you should keep an eye for. As I said earlier the wizards have little advantages in casting with their low power but with fast casting and motw they can do devastating combos. Unless you go for light/dark only.

Quote:

Attack is almost impossible to get. I mean, 2%!!! But if you are lucky, it does give you Archery which is a nice perk for Academy (having 3 archers), while Tactics is good for Gargoyles and Rakashas, Battle Frenzy is also very good with Gremlins and sometimes Golems.


No it's not. In a longer game which it will be since you are arguing about ultimates you will get it even if a lot later. Just focus on the rest and you'll get it last as the chance for it to appear grows. I used to think archery was actaully good...But. Gremlins? Gimme a break, they cannot hurt the enemy-just give them an armour breaking army so as not to be useless and repair the golems. Mages? As if they won't be blocked within 2 turns. Their strength is in their magic, especially this lovely fireball and occasionally cleansing or casting righteous magic. Titans? Don't worry, they WILL be blocked. And why would you get tactics, to rush the enemy? Aademy is poor at that and has low initiative. More like they'll be within reach of the might heroes to butcher down at their ease. Rakshasas' job is to guard the titans and avoid being hit by charging units in round 1. Gargoyles can always get a speed arie so they are fine as well. And battle frenzy...Hah, ditch it-it offers too little.

Quote:

Now for the Racial Perks. Mark of the Wizard, can be good in final battles, while it can also be a waste of a turn. Magic Mirror, with Galib, can be VERY painful (imagine that: You are a high spellpowered warlock casting an Empowered Implosion on the enemy Titans. Your spell gets lucky, that's even better... When a Magic Mirror strikes and the spell goes against your Hydras or Dragons...).


Final battles? It is a necessity right from the start. For half initiative you can kill amazing amounts of creeps in precious little time and it makes up for your low spellpower. Hmm I like magic mirror but warlocks just use aoe vs academy. Consume artifact is a nice failsafe but I usually don't get it.

Quote:

Magic Omniscience can be good, considering you only have one Magic skill when getting it. On the other hand, how many high level spells are you going to get without those skills? A strategy I thought up was having one hero (main) getting Arcane Omniscience, while another hero learns all of the Magic Skills and Scholar. The second hero teaches the skills to the main hero. I've never tried this strategy.


Actually a good number of them condidering library ana a mage's vault or utopia. Seriously, you'd have a 30 lvl hero with omniscience and you'd depend on another..? Not worth your time even in a too big for you map. I'd rather take the risk to get a sucky combination of spells which I never do hehe

Quote:

Sylvan: Nature's Luck

Requirements are OK, although you will miss out in some stuff.

Attack is again good here. Archery can really boost the already good Hunters, while it can help Druids that are out of mana. Tactics can be affective with Pixies and Battle Dancers, who will get to the enemy lines faster. Battle Frenzy can also help Pixies and Battle Dancers, especially Pixies when attacking lots of enemy creatures. 1 more damage for 100 more pixies can be a little helpful. Nature's Wrath, whle having an ugly icon, can be good as it gives one more maximum damage in addition to Battle Frenzy, and Flaming Arrows is very helpful with Balista (especially if you get Imbune Balista). The backfire is that you have only 2% to get it...


Archery is good but b frenzy+nature's wrath are more effective for hunters. Plus tactics are important for the unit placing, especially vs dragons. It's all about doing damage from afar while keeping them guarded sufficiently. Flaming arrows is not worth it unless you go for triple ballista in which case you miss other things.

Quote:

Defence, while having a 10% chance, can be prettty helpful. It will take even more time taking those Treants down, and your other low-hp creatures such as pixies will survive longer. Vitality give you even more time to live, so the Treants are now... Annoying. Evasion and Protection can make your Hunters and Druids live longer, and with Ammo Cart this is actually really good. Last Stand may actually save you when your last Pixie has one hp left, an already Imbuned Deadeye Shot and Balista with Fire damage can kill those last creatures. Stand Your Ground is just another perk for making your Treants almost unbrakeable.


Hmm yeah. I just have a preference for the basic abilities mostly vitality and evasion. Stand your ground is fot treant only tactics which have counters. Could be good for surprising your friends though.

Quote:

Luck is the Sylvan super-skill. with a 15% chance you will get it easialy. Luck is good for every faction, being able to deal twice the normal damage is just outstanding. Resourcefulness can be good in poor maps, and Magic Ressistance can just make those Hunters and Archers survive those Warlock spelld. Soldier Luck will trigger Unicorn's Blinding Attack more often, other than hat it's not that good for Sylvan. Elven Luck will make you deal even more damage when having a lucky attack, while Dead Man's Luck will make the enemy creatures get less lucky attacks or even unlucky attacks. Furthermore, a lucky attack with a critical hit from the Avenger skill is.. Ouch.


Dead man's luck is good but I'd rather take resistance. With elven luck and resistance you can be damaging but also protect yourself from dark or destructive spells. Next to a unicorn and having a resistance artifact or two increases quite a little your chances.

Quote:

Logistics is a skill that mostly affects the Adventure Map. being able to travel up yo 30% more is nice, and the normal perks like Pathfinding can give you even more traveling distances. Sielent Stalker can be good if you have a small army, as the enemy might think you have many low leveled monsters. Familiar Ground is really good for battles, especiall with Tactics: Your pixies and Battle Dancers will be much more of a use than before! Even better, you have 15% chance of getting it.


I have always been battle oriented so I look more into the battle skills. An advanced or expert logistics is enough for me, maybe I'll take scouting but the rest are not so appealing. Maybe in a large map to know for sure what will join you.

Quote:

Finally, we're getting to the actual Ultimate. Nature's Luck is just an amazing Ultimate, having your creatures have lucky attacks every single time. Unless facing Dwarves with Absolute Protectin, this skill will literally make your army twice as strong. Along with critical hit, damage dealt by a single creature can be about 400% more than normal (100%x2(luck)x2(critical hit)=400%!!!)




You forget elven luck hehe Maybe the best ultimate, efficient and always reliable.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted March 31, 2007 12:29 PM

The elven luck and avenger give 450% together, not 400%.

Nice review, although I agree with Elvin's comment totally.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted March 31, 2007 12:39 PM

Quote:

Fortress: Absolute Protection

Destructive Magic is a good skill for the Dwarves. Armageddon+Fire/Magma Deagons=Lots of damage. To that, you can also add Master of Fire and Ignite. That makes a very powerful combination that is worth even if you are not aiming for the Ultimate. Mana Burst can be helpful, but the other perks are definately better. Also, a 10% percent chance make this requirement even better.


Actually ignite is the only reason to get destructive. Runemages do not have something special about their magic nor a good spellpower-on par with the wizards. Also there are other things. The immune dragons as you said but also dwarven luck and rune of resurrection/immunity(?). Mark of fire from the patriarchs that also hit multiple targets. You have armoured units and have low damage output so master of fire is the way to go.

Quote:

Defence is the 15% chance Dwarven skill. Most of the Fortress creatures are good tanks, making defence a pretty good choice. Protection can keep those Thanes and Magma Dragons longer, making it another good choice. Defensive Formation is good when blocking shooters, as both the blockers and the shooters recive the defence boost. Preperation is another good perk for blockers. You defend with your Magma Dragons, than a group of creatures come to attack you, but before they do, you retalirate and finish them off before they can do any harm.


The dwarves haven't got a good initiative so they are vulnerable to an enemy charge, right? Not really. Because with defense and defensive formation they can withstand a lot of damage and take it in their stride. Not many factions ca take the blow and go on to be victorious. So far I haven't changed my mind about preparation, with the runes and some magic aid you can get most out of attacking, not defending so it's not of high priority.

Quote:

War Machines is a nice skill that lets you have more control over your War Machines. Balista perk lets you control the Balista, AND adds one more shot. This can be effective, as you can take out the wanted small stack with your balista, and not let the stupid AI control it for you. Runic Warmachine will increase the initiative of War Machines, making them more effective on the battlefield because they will act more than usual. Triple Balista will give you even another shot, having your balista fire 3 shots at the wanted target with more effect is realy good. To top it all, you have 15% chance to recive War Machines.


I love this skill but unless in normal or small size of map I'd rather get destructive. While it works well with luck and acts fast it still is decent, not outstanding. Destructive has a better potential, light the same, luck/defense is a must. It will help a lot in early skirmishes and creeping though without affecting your mana. But 6 lvls?

Quote:

Runelore lets you learn runes: spell like effects that consume resources nstead of mana. Some runes are really good, like Rune of Charge which soubles the speed of a creature for the activated turn. All Dwarven Racial perks, except the Ultimate, have something to do with Runes. Refresh Rune is an activated hero ability which lets you refresh a rune that was already used by a creature. Greater Rune is good for rich maps, where you can activate a rune once more for triple cost.


All I can say is that there are some sweet combos out there. The dwarves were made 'weak' on purpose and from experience I can tell that it more than evens out. On the top of it you can be unpredictable and creative. Always take greater rune(esp if you aim for triple ballista as you may not be offered again soon) and fine rune to ease your resource consumption! Rune of charge may deplete your wood if not careful!

Quote:

Now for the Ultimate. Absolute Protection is exactly the opposite of Nature's Luck. Instead of all attacks being lucky, all enemy attacks will be unlucky dealing only half damage. This is excelent to keep your creatures alive longer. When both Absolute Protection and Nature's Luck are active in a battle, Luck is disabled in combat. Absolute Protection can be really annoying for the enemy, dealing only halfof the normal damage.


It's not, sylvan still has deadman's luck. But good defense, the skill itself AND absolute protection is sick...Die hard situations!
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dschingi
dschingi


Famous Hero
the guy with the dragon golem
posted March 31, 2007 12:48 PM

Quote:
The elven luck and avenger give 450% together, not 400%.


Eh actually that's wrong as well

Avenger and Luck are additive, not multiplicative.
Therefore you get a damage factor of 325%
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EliteKill
EliteKill

Promising

The Starless
posted March 31, 2007 12:50 PM

Thanks for your replys. But to remind you:

This is only MY opinion.

Also, I am not done. I am doing this for every faction, and in the end there will be a conclusion:

Are Ultimates worth it or not?

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted March 31, 2007 01:00 PM

Quote:
Eh actually that's wrong as well

Avenger and Luck are additive, not multiplicative.
Therefore you get a damage factor of 325%


are you sure? I think I read this 450% in the manual. Hmm, maybe it's my memory that fails me again

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted March 31, 2007 01:01 PM

The conclusion is easy to draw! And...sure nobody said what we cite is completely right too. Personal preference and experience come into play and shape each one's opinions hehe
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dschingi
dschingi


Famous Hero
the guy with the dragon golem
posted March 31, 2007 01:03 PM

Quote:
are you sure? I think I read this 450% in the manual. Hmm, maybe it's my memory that fails me again

Yes, I just looked it up there. Maybe it says 450% in an older version of the manual.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted March 31, 2007 01:07 PM

Ah. So let's say you do 100 damage.

Additive: normal 100 damage + 125 luck damage + 100 avenger damage, 325%. Therafore you seem right indeed.

TowerLord will be surprised by that, I guess ;p

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Halm
Halm


Hired Hero
posted March 31, 2007 01:34 PM

Quote:

Are Ultimates worth it or not?


Nice work.

Althoug my opinion is that the ultimative isn't worth the efford.
I never had any, and the game is already decided before it comes to play.

Once I had the chance in the last lvl of the deamon campagin.
But choosing tactics and finding the boots of speed was much better than ultimative gating could have been, because it gave the chance to kill enemys (particulary archers) without losses.
(with is essential on heroic)


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Daystar
Daystar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
posted March 31, 2007 02:15 PM

I'd say ultimates are worth it, especially natures luck and howl of terror.

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executor
executor


Famous Hero
Otherworldly Ambassador
posted March 31, 2007 02:21 PM
Edited by executor at 14:29, 31 Mar 2007.

Quote:
A strategy I thought up was having one hero (main) getting Arcane Omniscience, while another hero learns all of the Magic Skills and Scholar. The second hero teaches the skills to the main hero. I've never tried this strategy.


Ekhmmm... You can only teach spells, not skills. The only one who would learn anymething is the secondary hero(spells). Therefore this strategy... um... is worth only throwing into a trash can.

Quote:
Once I had the chance in the last lvl of the deamon campagin.
But choosing tactics and finding the boots of speed was much better than ultimative gating could have been, because it gave the chance to kill enemys (particulary archers) without losses.
(with is essential on heroic)



Well, I must say having urgash's call gives you winning over shooters without looses... gated creatures arrive instantly, so the shooters are blocked. And your cerberi and nightmares still have much ATB to do something. Casters prefer to kill gated creatures, don't know why.

As for ulties, if I know that I will easily get 30+ level and won't be rushed/interrupted in meantime, I'll surely go for four of them: wizard's, ranger's, demon lord's and runemage's. Perhaps necro's as well, haven't checked. These are worth the effort, but usually you are unable to afford it. Warlock's one isn't crappy, but it's requirement's are and spoil the hero(I don't mean single skills, but this combination). And knight's one sucks terribly.
Yet occasions for such level-upping happen hardly ever(besides campaigns), so I would recommend to not try. Unless you play a rich XXL map(or campaign) and know you'll get this 30+ level . Otherwise, don't bother.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted March 31, 2007 02:29 PM

Quote:
Well, I must say having urgash's call gives you winning over shooters without looses... gated creatures arrive instantly, so the shooters are blocked. And your cerberi and nightmares still have much ATB to do something. Casters prefer to kill gated creatures, don't know why.


As if a human player wouldn't have them surrounded with other units. Not that I dislike it the least. Instant gating, nature's luck, absolute protection and howl of terror(needs fewer lvls now) are the only ones worthy to pursue. The skills are good and while you miss some good abilities the ultimate will make up for them pretty nicely.
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GenieLord
GenieLord


Honorable
Legendary Hero
posted March 31, 2007 02:29 PM

Good job, EliteKill.
I'm working on the Knight's and the Necromancer's Ultimate.

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executor
executor


Famous Hero
Otherworldly Ambassador
posted March 31, 2007 02:31 PM

Quote:
As if a human player wouldn't have them surrounded with other units.


I fully agree, but the thing was about creeping on shooters in last scenario of inferno campaign . Then it has such use.
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