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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Protections for our Schools
Thread: Protections for our Schools This thread is 5 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT»
Colonel_here
Colonel_here


Adventuring Hero
Descendant of Ghengis Khan
posted April 17, 2007 09:27 PM

It is accumulation of whole bunch of things that leads to these problems. Education is one of them. The fact that parents are not active in their children's' lives is another. Than there is the fact that some parents never teach their kids to respect them and so later on the kids don't care what parents have to say.
____________
"The job of saving the lives of those who are sinking is the task of those who are sinking" - Ostap Bender
"Only a fool fights a battle he knows he can not win" - Ghengiz Khan

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fishjie
fishjie


Adventuring Hero
posted April 17, 2007 09:49 PM

RIP

and this story made me cry


Quote:


Name:
In memory of Professor Liviu Librescu who saved his students at Virginia T.
Type:
Student Groups - General
Description:
As Jews worldwide honored on Monday the memory of those who were murdered in the Holocaust, a 76-year-old survivor sacrificed his life to save his students in Monday's shooting at Virginia Tech College that left 32 dead and over two dozen wounded.

Professor Liviu Librescu, 76, threw himself in front of the shooter, who had attempted to enter his classroom. The Israeli mechanics and engineering lecturer was shot to death, but all the students lived - because of him.

He blocked the doorway with his body and asked the students to flee, Joe Librescu (his son) said in a telephone interview from his home outside of Tel Aviv. "Students started opening windows and jumping out."

Professor Librescu and his wife, immigrated to Israel from Romania in 1978 and then moved to Virginia in 1985 for his sabbatical, but had stayed since then.

Thanks to his heroic effort almost the whole class has survived.

Please spread the word, among your friends, about this great man.



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homam
homam


Known Hero
Sailor of the open seas
posted April 17, 2007 11:57 PM

Quote:
RIP

and this story made me cry


Quote:


Ok he did something heroic.Ok he might saved many kids with his actions.But this makes u cry?The thing that should really make u cry was the action of the kids.Not the teacher's heroic actions,not the bloody termination,not the little innocent kids that dyied in that way.The think that must shoke us and make us cry first of all is just this action.It's not the first time,and propably not the last.
Many things must change in order none will have to say in the future : and this story made me cry
But hopelessly somebody will say that again..




____________
I think we aren't in Kansas anymore Toto

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fishjie
fishjie


Adventuring Hero
posted April 18, 2007 12:04 AM

i was touched by his actions and moved deeply.    and its sad, he survived the holocaust, surviving one sick mind, only to die to another sick person years later

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homam
homam


Known Hero
Sailor of the open seas
posted April 18, 2007 12:15 AM

Quote:
i was touched by his actions and moved deeply.    and its sad, he survived the holocaust, surviving one sick mind, only to die to another sick person years later

U must pay your attention to that "sick" person u said.U must concern your responsibilities in such phenomenon.(not only u but all of us).What have we done to prevent such actions?We all are joinly responsible to these phenomenon.So we can't talk about "sick" person we can't judge this boy.What do u think?Criminals and "sick" people just borned sick?Think of that a bit deeper before u say sick someone.
____________
I think we aren't in Kansas anymore Toto

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pandora
pandora


Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
posted April 18, 2007 12:31 AM

Homam - why do you condemn him for what he feels?

There are many people we should cry for - does the fact that one person hurts make another's tragedy mean less?

I think I understand you to an extent - but don't judge so harshly, different people react to situations differently, it doesn't mean that their feelings are wrong.


____________
"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."

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homam
homam


Known Hero
Sailor of the open seas
posted April 18, 2007 12:49 AM

Quote:
Homam - why do you condemn him for what he feels?

There are many people we should cry for - does the fact that one person hurts make another's tragedy mean less?

I think I understand you to an extent - but don't judge so harshly, different people react to situations differently, it doesn't mean that their feelings are wrong.



Well i din't want to judge him for his feelings.I wasn't very clear.
All i wanted to say is that this isn't the first time for a fact like that.It's 100% normal to makes us sad such things.I don't blame anyone who cryied for the victims.But all that i ve just said or wanted to say is that it's pointless to just cry to another sloughter-house.It's pointless to stay in the grief for the victims and in a few days we will continue our lives waiting for the next school that someone will invade and start killing everyone he sees. I'll say that again.It's not the first time and propably not the last. Will u be sleeping well knowing that u just felt sad about that or keep the national grief that president declaired?We all are waiting for the next strike of a "sick" person.And we do nothing.

____________
I think we aren't in Kansas anymore Toto

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fishjie
fishjie


Adventuring Hero
posted April 18, 2007 02:49 AM
Edited by fishjie at 02:57, 18 Apr 2007.

i say hes sick because he gunned down 30+ people who were just trying to better themselves as human beings by getting an education.    also, if you read his plays, its clear he had a disturbed mind:

http://newsbloggers.aol.com/2007/04/17/cho-seung-huis-plays/

HOWEVER, i do agree that this might have been prevented if outreach had been done to this guy, to let him know that people cared about him.    i think the guy didnt know how to ask for help, and nobody was there to help him.    
anyway, i agree that there are tragedies everywhere.   i think nikki giovanni said it best in her closing statement at the convocation:

"We are Virginia Tech
We are sad today
And we will be sad for quite a while
We are not moving on
We are embracing our mourning
We are Virginia Tech
We are strong enough to stand tall tearlessly
We are brave enough to bend to cry
And sad enough to know we must laugh again
We are Virginia Tech
We do not understand this tragedy
We know we did nothing to deserve it
But neither does a child in Africa dying of AIDS
Neither do the invisible children walking the night away to avoid being captured by a rogue army
Neither does the baby elephant watching his community be devastated for ivory
Neither does the Mexican child looking for fresh water
Neither does the Appalachian infant killed in the middle of night in his crib in the home his father built with his own hands being run over by a boulder because the land was destabilized
No one deserves a tragedy
We are Virginia Tech
The Hokie nation embraces our own and reaches out with open heart and hands
To those who offer their hearts and minds
We are strong and brave and innocent and unafraid
We are better than we think and not quite what we want to be
We are alive to the imagination and the possibility
We will continue to invent the future
Through our blood and tears
Through all this sadness
We are the Hokies
We will prevail
We will prevail
We will prevail
We are Virginia Tech."

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homam
homam


Known Hero
Sailor of the open seas
posted April 18, 2007 03:48 AM

Quote:
i say hes sick because he gunned down 30+ people who were just trying to better themselves as human beings by getting an education.    also, if you read his plays, its clear he had a disturbed mind:

http://newsbloggers.aol.com/2007/04/17/cho-seung-huis-plays/

anyway, i agree that there are tragedies everywhere.   i think nikki giovanni said it best in her closing statement at the convocation:

"We are Virginia Tech
We are sad today
And we will be sad for quite a while
We are not moving on
We are embracing our mourning
We are Virginia Tech
We are strong enough to stand tall tearlessly
We are brave enough to bend to cry
And sad enough to know we must laugh again
We are Virginia Tech
We do not understand this tragedy
We know we did nothing to deserve it
But neither does a child in Africa dying of AIDS
Neither do the invisible children walking the night away to avoid being captured by a rogue army
Neither does the baby elephant watching his community be devastated for ivory
Neither does the Mexican child looking for fresh water
Neither does the Appalachian infant killed in the middle of night in his crib in the home his father built with his own hands being run over by a boulder because the land was destabilized
No one deserves a tragedy
We are Virginia Tech
The Hokie nation embraces our own and reaches out with open heart and hands
To those who offer their hearts and minds
We are strong and brave and innocent and unafraid
We are better than we think and not quite what we want to be
We are alive to the imagination and the possibility
We will continue to invent the future
Through our blood and tears
Through all this sadness
We are the Hokies
We will prevail
We will prevail
We will prevail
We are Virginia Tech."

I 'm afraid to say and i don't want to,what came in my mind when i saw this.If i write it i will be misunderstood. I'm a very emotional person with ethics and values.But also i try to be realistic.I don't "delete" all.But these "poems" are for a purpose.(good or bad doesn't matter)
Like you don't want to see the problem.The problem exists.What are we doing?We cry with silly poems.Yes now i 'm judging.Yes Pandora u were right before.I have a lot of anger with all these.If we want to pay our respects to these victims we must all make an effort to prevent another "Virginia Tech".These silly "poems" were heard again and again.I am not hiding my head in the sand.I don't say that i will do for sure something to prevent another tragedy.I can't do much.But at least i make an effort to see the situation as it is.
____________
I think we aren't in Kansas anymore Toto

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pomo
pomo


Famous Hero
The lone peasant
posted April 18, 2007 04:38 AM

Quote:
Yes now i 'm judging


Ok so will I. Your response is silly - not the poem. Why? Firstly you're assuming that because people feel the need to express their grief and their resolve to continue to live their lives, support one another etc, that they're too dumb to have any idea that a problem exists or any willingness to do anything about it. Such condescension seems to me to originate from a lack of personal experience with any such hardship.

To put things in perspective, no I don't know anybody that's been murdered. What I do have experience with is suicide, two of my brothers have attemped suicide, one successfully, one to the point where he is permanently incapacitated. Both were/are schizophrenics, and the fact that both suicide attempts occurred while in hospital (and on suicide watch mind you) are partly attributable to poor health care practices. So my family grieved. But we have also been active in pushing for reform of mental health care ever since.

The point is that grief and action are not mutually exclusive - grief (both of those persons directly involved and of the public generally) is motivational. Of course it is possible that very little will change in this instance, but that's not the fault of those who write the poem or those who empathise with the victims or their families. If you want to direct your energies in some way that is helpful - better to actually contribute to some positive change yourself rather than criticising those who are upset.


I am not hiding my head in the sand


No, neither is anyone else. I think almost EVERYONE understands that there is a problem beyond the psychology of one person. What you're doing in effect is like saying to someone whose family has just been murdered "Well you know, I'm very sorry to hear about that, but maybe you should stop thinking about yourself for a minute and think of the bigger picture". As if they're not thinking of why it happened...

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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted April 18, 2007 07:07 AM

I dont think people take certain behaviors seriously enough.
I think after the Virginia Massacre, they will take any behavior seriously that seems to be harmful to themselves or others.

____________
Dreaming of a Better World

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Binabik
Binabik


Responsible
Legendary Hero
posted April 18, 2007 10:31 AM
Edited by Binabik at 10:35, 18 Apr 2007.

It's way too easy to look at these things in hindsight.  It's easy to say that this guy's short plays were some kind of indicator of a sick mind who might go on a shooting spree.

At the same time we are taught to "mind our own business" or to "stay out of it".  And very often that is very good advice.  In hindsight it's easy to read this guy's writings and say we (we = society) should have reported him as suspicious.  To say this should have been reported also says that probably hundreds of other strange behaviors should also be reported.

I read this guy's plays.  IMO he actually showed some talent.  There's a great deal of truth in his plays.  The plays might not be to our tastes.  But without using hindsight, who's to say this guy might not have been a budding genius of a playwright.  Someone who explores issues that society would rather turn away from and pretend don't exist.

The subjects he wrote about are realistic and happen in various manifestations thousands upon thousands of times throughout the world.  Yea, it's overly dramatic, but isn't that what theater departments teach -- to over dramatize both the writing and the acting -- to capture the attention of the audience?

I'm not into slasher movies.  I'm not into Friday the 13th, or CSI.  I think that stuff is sick.  I would think that anyone who enjoys it has a sick mind, except I know many people who like that stuff who are otherwise perfectly normal.  Bottom line is I just don't get it. Why watch garbage like that?  Why read Stephen King?  Should we turn these people in?


He shrieked once -- once only. In an instant I dragged him to the floor, and pulled the heavy bed over him. I then smiled gaily, to find the deed so far done. But for many minutes the heart beat on with a muffled sound. This, however, did not vex me; it would not be heard through the wall. At length it ceased. The old man was dead. I removed the bed and examined the corpse. Yes, he was stone, stone dead. I placed my hand upon the heart and held it there many minutes. There was no pulsation. He was stone dead. His eye would trouble me no more.

If still you think me mad, you will think so no longer when I describe the wise precautions I took for the concealment of the body. The night waned, and I worked hastily, but in silence.

I took up three planks from the flooring of the chamber, and deposited all between the scantlings. I then replaced the boards so cleverly so cunningly, that no human eye -- not even his -- could have detected anything wrong. There was nothing to wash out -- no stain of any kind -- no blood-spot whatever. I had been too wary for that.



Shall we turn in Edgar Allan Poe as suspicious?  Or should we take a chance that he might go out and kill someone?  After all, in hindsight we would be blamed for not turnig him in when we had the chance.

We as a society like to look at things in hindsight.  We like to oversimplify the complex.  That gives us something to grasp, a direction to steer our anger and fears.  We want the simple solution, when that solution rarely if ever exists.

I've been around for a while.  And every year that passes, the more confident I become that we as a society focus our attention in the wrong direction.  We blame the government for our problems.  Or we blame the church, or the schools, or the corporations.

But after watching these institutions over the years, I've become more and more convinced that we give them way too much blame/credit.  I'm becoming convinced that the only real solution is at the individual level.  That means standing in front of the mirror and pointing straight ahead.....that's where the problem lies.....and it's also where the solution lies.


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Dragon_Slayer
Dragon_Slayer


Honorable
Supreme Hero
toss toss toss
posted April 18, 2007 10:47 AM

Ask yourselves this. How can you stop a student from shooting up a school, unless you catch wind of it before it happens? More security personel, fences? Hows that going to stop someone from walking in with a gun? Are you going to search each student everyday? Put metal detectors through all the entrances? You cant stop something like this from happening.

The source of the problem is guns. I know people say, "Guns dont kill people, people kill people." But seriously, without the gun, that kid wont be able to kill anywhere near as many people. As it would seem, guns are too readily available in America. Of course this is just my assumtion but perhaps someone from America could confirm that.
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Binabik
Binabik


Responsible
Legendary Hero
posted April 18, 2007 11:00 AM

One could also argue that if more of the students had guns, someone would have stopped this guy.

In the US, individuals with guns prevent an estimated 800,000-1,200,000 crimes a year.


____________

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william
william


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
posted April 18, 2007 11:15 AM

Quote:

In the US, individuals with guns prevent an estimated 800,000-1,200,000 crimes a year.




Yes, but think about the amount of crimes committed a year if an individual or a group of people have crimes.

There will be much more crimes committed with a gun then with them using another weapon.

The truth is, Gun's can kill people much easier then say a baseball bat, because gun's you can shoot a distance from the victim, baseball bats or any other weapon you have to get up close with.

Gun's, and the people who use them, will commit more crimes then people who use them to be good.

Does that make any sense?
____________
~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~

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TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
posted April 18, 2007 11:22 AM
Edited by TitaniumAlloy at 11:24, 18 Apr 2007.

There is only one solution to this:

Shoot anyone who looks suspicious, immediately, before they shoot you









@Binabik
Quote:
One could also argue that if more of the students had guns, someone would have stopped this guy.

In the US, individuals with guns prevent an estimated 800,000-1,200,000 crimes a year.




Don't be ridiculous.
Guns probably caused those crimes in the first place.

And you don't really think that pointing a gun at this mentally unstable, suicidal kid (who is armed with a rifle) was going to stop him.
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John says to live above hell.

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Binabik
Binabik


Responsible
Legendary Hero
posted April 18, 2007 11:39 AM

There's nothing ridiculous about it.  I simply posted raw data, you can do with it what you want.  As far as the cause of the crimes, I assume some percentage of them had weapons involved.  Most were probably minor crimes.

Quote:
And you don't really think that pointing a gun at this mentally unstable, suicidal kid (who is armed with a rifle) was going to stop him.
No, he would have had to be shot.  Everyone complains about the police not being there and that's what they would have done.


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Consis
Consis


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
posted April 18, 2007 03:02 PM

Binabik,

In my experience everyone complains about the police in every conceivable manner. I've heard people say the usual things such as:

1. "The police are out to get you."
2. "Don't cross a policeman or you'll get a beating."
3. "Police won't believe you no matter what you say."
4. "Police are always late."
5. "Police are our friends."
6. "Always trust a policeman."
7. "Run and get a policeman's help."
8. "Police only help white people."
9. "Police are as corrupt as anyone."
10. "Police get paid too much money."
11. "Police are over worked and under paid."

As you can clearly see from the gambit of insertions people describe about them, they seem to provoke different feelings for different people. I suggest trust until otherwise proven. If you question an officer's judgment then you have the right to write a formal complaint and have that officer's record checked for discrepancies.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I

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Consis
Consis


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
posted April 21, 2007 05:37 AM
Edited by Consis at 05:42, 21 Apr 2007.

An American Gun Control Issue?

By: Ted Nugent

Editor's note: Rock guitarist Ted Nugent has sold more than 30 million albums. He's also a gun rights activist and serves on the board of directors of the National Rifle Association. His program, "Ted Nugent Spirit of the Wild," can be seen on the Outdoor Channel.

Zero tolerance, huh? Gun-free zones, huh? Try this on for size: Columbine gun-free zone, New York City pizza shop gun-free zone, Luby's Cafeteria gun-free zone, Amish school in Pennsylvania gun-free zone and now Virginia Tech gun-free zone.

Anybody see what the evil Brady Campaign and other anti-gun cults have created? I personally have zero tolerance for evil and denial. And America had best wake up real fast that the brain-dead celebration of unarmed helplessness will get you killed every time, and I've about had enough of it.

Nearly a decade ago, a Springfield, Oregon, high schooler, a hunter familiar with firearms, was able to bring an unfolding rampage to an abrupt end when he identified a gunman attempting to reload his .22-caliber rifle, made the tactical decision to make a move and tackled the shooter. A few years back, an assistant principal at Pearl High School in Mississippi, which was a gun-free zone, retrieved his legally owned Colt .45 from his car and stopped a Columbine wannabe from continuing his massacre at another school after he had killed two and wounded more at Pearl. At an eighth-grade school dance in Pennsylvania, a boy fatally shot a teacher and wounded two students before the owner of the dance hall brought the killing to a halt with his own gun. More recently, just a few miles up the road from Virginia Tech, two law school students ran to fetch their legally owned firearm to stop a madman from slaughtering anybody and everybody he pleased. These brave, average, armed citizens neutralized him pronto.

My hero, Dr. Suzanne Gratia Hupp, was not allowed by Texas law to carry her handgun into Luby's Cafeteria that fateful day in 1991, when due to bureaucrat-forced unarmed helplessness she could do nothing to stop satanic George Hennard from killing 23 people and wounding more than 20 others before he shot himself. Hupp was unarmed for no other reason than denial-ridden "feel good" politics. She has since led the charge for concealed weapon upgrade in Texas, where we can now stop evil. Yet, there are still the mindless puppets of the Brady Campaign and other anti-gun organizations insisting on continuing the gun-free zone insanity by which innocents are forced into unarmed helplessness. Shame on them. Shame on America. Shame on the anti-gunners all.

No one was foolish enough to debate Ryder truck regulations or ammonia nitrate restrictions or a "cult of agriculture fertilizer" following the unabashed evil of Timothy McVeigh's heinous crime against America on that fateful day in Oklahoma City. No one faulted kitchen utensils or other hardware of choice after Jeffrey Dahmer was caught drugging, mutilating, raping, murdering and cannibalizing his victims. Nobody wanted "steak knife control" as they autopsied the dead nurses in Chicago, Illinois, as Richard Speck went on trial for mass murder.

Evil is as evil does, and laws disarming guaranteed victims make evil people very, very happy. Shame on us. Already spineless gun control advocates are squawking like chickens with their tiny-brained heads chopped off, making political hay over this most recent, devastating Virginia Tech massacre, when in fact it is their own forced gun-free zone policy that enabled the unchallenged methodical murder of 32 people. Thirty-two people dead on a U.S. college campus pursuing their American Dream, mowed-down over an extended period of time by a lone, non-American gunman in possession of a firearm on campus in defiance of a zero-tolerance gun ban. Feel better yet? Didn't think so. Who doesn't get this? Who has the audacity to demand unarmed helplessness? Who likes dead good guys?

I'll tell you who. People who tramp on the Second Amendment, that's who. People who refuse to accept the self-evident truth that free people have the God-given right to keep and bear arms, to defend themselves and their loved ones. People who are so desperate in their drive to control others, so mindless in their denial that they pretend access to gas causes arson, Ryder trucks and fertilizer cause terrorism, water causes drowning, forks and spoons cause obesity, dialing 911 will somehow save your life, and that their greedy clamoring to "feel good" is more important than admitting that armed citizens are much better equipped to stop evil than unarmed, helpless ones.

Pray for the families of victims everywhere, America. Study the methodology of evil. It has a profile, a system, a preferred environment where victims cannot fight back. Embrace the facts, demand upgrade and be certain that your children's school has a better plan than Virginia Tech or Columbine. Eliminate the insanity of gun-free zones, which will never, ever be gun-free zones. They will only be good guy gun-free zones, and that is a recipe for disaster written in blood on the altar of denial. I, for one, refuse to genuflect there.

I copied Nugent's article from a cnn website. Read an opposing take on gun control from journalist Tom Plate: "Let's lay down our right to bear arms"
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I

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Vlaad
Vlaad


Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
posted April 21, 2007 10:06 AM

What an outrageous red herring - it's not about gun-free zones, it's about a gun-free country.

As for the "God-given right", what happened to "you shall not murder"?
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