Heroes of Might and Magic Community
visiting hero! Register | Today's Posts | Games | Search! | FAQ/Rules | AvatarList | MemberList | Profile


Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
[X] Remove Ads
LOGIN:     Username:     Password:         [ Register ]
HOMM1: info forum | HOMM2: info forum | HOMM3: info mods forum | HOMM4: info CTG forum | HOMM5: info mods forum | MMH6: wiki forum | MMH7: wiki forum
Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Necro Strength
Thread: Necro Strength This thread is 5 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · NEXT»
BlackSk8er
BlackSk8er

Tavern Dweller
posted May 07, 2007 12:24 PM
Edited by BlackSk8er at 10:04, 08 May 2007.

Guide to insanity :)

This post is my review for the Necromancer.
Why did i create this post? Because all of the newbie complains that the necro town is not as tough as other towns, on the contrarry,that necros are much weaker!

MY OPPINION: Necromancers castles are NOT weaker than others, they have the SAME potential! The only difference is that they are harder to play with, because their tactics aren't as obvious as other castles (followed by dungeon, which i consider to be the next hard castle to master)

This review: - is meant for battles on a large scale, on a large map, versus HUMAN-INTELLIGENCE
            - because its large scaled, i will talk ONLY about the upgraded creatures (why should i talk about the basic ones?, cuz in 5 weeks plus, ANYONE has already upgraded them all)
            - IS BASED ON THE HoF add-on, this means version 2.0 of the game.
            - artifacts will not be mentioned, even if they are a very important factor, they are part of the players' luck, rather than strategy!
            - it's not meant as a building strategy guide, in fact no building strategy is included! Because the building strategy will differ from map to map, from location to location!

//-------------------------------------------------------------------
ABOUT NECROMANCER HEROES
//-------------------------------------------------------------------


First of all i want to clarify why VLADIMIR HERO is not so boring, and what is his real power:
- It is obvious that the first power is Vladimir's "advance" raise dead spell and speciality! Not only this spell allows you not to loose so many creatures on neutral monsters, but it CAN be used in a great battle versus human player, because of its increased power due to the fact that it is his speciality! I mean this spell in vladimirs hands CAN compete with other quite powerful level 5 even spells

- Second of all, Vladimir starts with Summoning magic. The main problem of the Necro is that the creatures are too weak. Now, WHY NOT ADD CREATURES ON THE BATTLEFIELD? Necro is based on SPELLPOWER, thus summoning a phoenix on the battlefield will increase your armys potential greatly! I havent seen this observation in the forum thus far.

-Third of all, not only Vladimir gets summoning magic, but he gets its skill Master Of Life too! This means that you can take the haunted mines skill VERY fast, and exploit it from the begginning of the game!  

Theese are the powers of Vladimir!

Naadir is also a VERY useful hero. The ghost summoning is good at distracting and wasting powerful enemy attacks! And consider the summoned ghost's incorporeal ability: they may be few and weak, but if ur lucky they will have more than one life! Think of that! Plus, Naadir starts out with summon magic also!

Lucretia wuld be the last hero, though it forces u to abandon one skill for the sorcery, thus making her more inclined at spellcasting (dangerous if the enemy is anti-magic)
The rest of the heroes are really useless. (Maybe Deidre was pretty good, but i am not sure it her special skill really works, so... i rather throw her away)

Now, i will display that wich i think is the best combination of skills for a necromancer to use AT ONCE! (this is part of the "expert use" of necro cities)

1. Necromancy, upgraded fast and furious.
2. Vladimirs summoning magic, with Master of life, and Master of conjuration! The life for raising, and conjuration for phoenixes and elementals, adding some useful stacks on the battlefield to disrupt the enemy!And dont forget the haunt mines skill, for the ghosts!
3. Attack, with Battle Frenzy, Cold Steel, and Archery. (see the skellie review)
4. Defense with all three NORMAL skills (Vitality, protection and evasion)
5. Death Magic, with all of its three masteries! Mass Slow, and Mass Weakness at expert level WILL be your friends!
6. Here you have a choice between logistics, and enlightement. Enlightement makes your units tougher (u gain points both in attack and defense skills if ur lucky, few but VERY useful). Logistics is useful in two ways: first, it lets you explore more => more skellies, battle and experience. ALSO the skill: Death March is a MUST if you want to have a chance in taking a castle (the arrow damage of your skellies and lich is GREATLY reduced due to range AND walls, so BEWARE)


//--------------------------------------------------------------------
ABOUT NECROPOLIS CREATURES
//--------------------------------------------------------------------


Now, i will review the creatures, their strengths and weaknesses and some of the most powerful tactics! (again, i will speak only of the upgraded ones)

1. Skeleton Archers!(skellies)
Here is the true strength of the necromancer, the backbone of his army, and the most tricky unit of all!
When i first played with a necro, i had like 1000 skellies, and said to myself:"" . I battled a computer-enemy, and in one hit, 400 of my skellies were already dead at the beginning of the combat...

- they are fragile - make them tougher
- they are weak - make them more powerful
- they are undefended - defend them
- THEY HAVE NUMBERS - CONTINUE INCREASING THEM SICK

What does this mean you ask me?
-make them tougher: do you remember i picked defense skill for the hero skill list? Do you remember the vitality skill? Well then, lets say we're in month 3 of the game, with 3000 skellies, and u get the vitality skill: that means 6000 hit poins! How can you say NO to THAT?
-make them more powerful: again, do you remember i picked the attack skill? now, do you remember the Battle Frenzy skill? Yeah, i know you do, and i know you're all HOT about the almost DOUBLED RANGED DAMMAGE of skellies now, but WAIT!! There is more! There is the Cold Steel skill also! AND THE ARCHERY!NOW do the math, and see how powerful your skellies have become!
-they are undefended: of course here comes the usefulness of the expert defense skill, and the deflect arrows, and the Protection. But, remember the useless zombies? They are dead meat, and by that i mean: take their bloody corpses and make a wall behind which your archers are safe! If the zombies are not enough, there are also the wraiths, or the archlich(depends on how the adversary plays: if he plays offensive, use the wraiths, if not, use the lich)
-THEY HAVE NUMBERS - increase them with all your potential necromancy: use the building amplifiers, use your skills, use weak creatures, use artifacts (did i mention artifacts of dammage and HP?), use whatever you can lay your hands upon, because YOU CAN, and you have  A LOT of things to help you in ur skellie nursing!

This is one of the hidden strengths of the Necros: use them well, or youll get cracked bones and a stunned face like i did in my first battle!

What spells/skills to pair with skellies? Luck is one boost, preferably NOT from the skill, because we dont want that slot to be occupied with other than those above. Summoning magic for: defending phoenixes/elementals, OR the arcane armor! DO NOT FORGET PHANTOM FORCES! And i guess you can use the firewall for protection (mostly bluff, havent tried)And of course almost any death spell which reduces stats: like slow and vulnerability.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
2. The ALL-Pitiful Zombie "Lords"..... or are they?
Yeah, theyr pitifu at damage, yeah, they suck at initiative and speed, so why? oh whyyy??
Ill tell you why! THEY ARE MEAT FOR YOUR ADVERSARY TO WASTE HIS ATTACKS! Not only that, but when it wastes his attacks, the retaliation of the zombies makes them weaker, AND inflicts some minor dammage! (its better than nothing)

Remember that NO ONE wishes to attack zombies (mostly because they're ugly, fat and boring), so they WILL NOT ATTACK THEM UNLESS THEY HAVE NO CHOICE: soooo.... MAKE THEM have no choice! How?, by placing them as guards for the weak skeletons!to target the skellies, they have to get through the zombies...so look what happens:
-they hit zombies
-zombies WILL NOT EVER EVER die from the first hit, almost nomatter how many creatures have hit them
-zombies retaliate: do minor insignificant dmg, but reduce stats
-now... skellies, the enemy is within range: MAXIMUM DAMMAGE! if they dont die all the first shot, they WILL certainly die the second.

Lets say the attacker were paladins and they killed your whole zombies but were killed by the skellies! ZOMBIES for PALADINS... a fair trade, dont u think?

--------------------------------------------------------------------

3.Ghosts (Specters, remember that specters ARE MUCH MORE POTENT than ghosts)

Well, what about specters: they have a fairly good growth rate, if you have vladimir/naadir you can have a BEAUTYFUL growth rate, AND keep all of them alive for the endgame...
Their dammage is fairly good too! Especially if you have the Battle Frenzy skill for your skellie archers. With their obvious incorporeal ability, and the Vitality skill, this makes them quite deadly, if lucky!
They make spellcasters wheep! Especially good versus pitlords, just imagine: 100 pitlords without the ability to cast meteor shower or fireball anymore... and batteling incorporeal ghosts with the ability to auto-ressurect themselves...
Ghosts can be used offensive or defensive, depends on the adversary!

end of ghost review!

-------------------------------------------------------------------

4. Vampires
Once the backbone of the necro army in HOMM3, now they are quite fragile beings. The Vitality trick is not that efective here, but still the Battle Frenzy ability is somewhat good.
With their no retaliation ability and life drain, they SHOULD be used CAREFULLY. Hit and run attacks would be very effective, because it keeps their casualities to 0 all the time!
They are in fact very useful for clearing undefended level one, or even level 2 creatures!! Do not hasitate to dispose of them quickly, but pay attention not to engage the vampires in a fight with creatures greater than their level! (lvl4)

If you choose Lucretia as your main hero, then they should be used mainly offensive, and can target creatures up to level 6...

TO REMEMBER: Vampires are good versus creatures LOWER than their level, and in this range of enemies, their potential is MAXED!
Fight Magma dragons with vampires and you'll soon figure out why... then fight gremlins, asassins, and those tasty pixies, and you'll worship them!

-----------------------------------------------------------------

5. Liches

Medium shooter, weak stats, but how to make use of it? Well, it IS kind of hard, ill admit... but it CAN be done!
-first, remember the death cloud ability, remember that on the other tiles it deals only 50% damage, and make use of this area-effect damage, as often and as careful as possible.
-second, remember that it has pretty powerful spells! but the questin is: will you be willing to sacrifice an area attack for a spell?I dont think so. So lets review the spells and some tactics:
its most powerful spell, weakness, is cast at EXPERT LEVEL! what does it mean? it means that the creature will deal ONLY its minimum damage! Its absolutely a very deadly spell to have, so what should you do? My advice is to create another stack (or maybe 2 of them) only with ine lich who will cast this spell, and the main stack to be used as shooter.
the second powerful spell is decay (advance level), it deals earth dammage over time. Since the dammage is related to the numbers of liches in the stack i advise you this: split the liches in half! so you can have flexible options during the battle. For example tou can firstly order both stacks to cast plague, and then shoot, or with one to shoot and the other one to cast plague.
the third one is suffering, in my opinion the weakest. My advice is that you use weakness instead.

- remember its large size, and considerable HP. As i told earlier, it CAN provide a good wall for skellies! Use them wisely and carefully!

-----------------------------------------------------------------

6. Wraiths

Having no seious special abilities, the wraith tends to be a mere heavy-infantry soldier. If batteling an ofensive player, they do actually provide good defense, but if battling a defensive enemy, it will be hard to get there fast enough!
They do however have rather good damage, and acceptable initiative, so support them with Slow spells, and vulnerability, they will do their job by the book. They can be mostly used do distract the enemy's attention from the incoming missiles of your deadly skellies!
Not much tactic here, im sorry to say...

----------------------------------------------------------------

7. Spectral dragons!

Ah, finally, the weak-labeled bone dragons!
Lets do some math, and point out WHAT exactly does that +1 Dragon per week building does....
2 dragons per week, compared with the mighty black dragon. this means: (black dragons first, bone dragons second, and the winner third)
             Black     Bone         Winner
HP:           240       320          BoneDragons (+33% more HP)
damage:       45-70     50-70        BoneDragons
attack:       30        30           equal
Defense:      30        28           BlackDragons
initiative:   10        11           BoneDragons
speed:        9         7            BlackDragons

- Final score!: BlackDragon 2 ......vs...... BoneDragon 3
- Winner.... i'll let you decide, you who stated loud and clear bone dragons are the worst lvl 7 creature.
- Resource cost analysis: black dragons cost 4500 gold, while bone dragons cost 5800, so you'll have to pay 1300 more gold each week, plus the 2 extra mercury, since there are 2x bonedragons. But in a large scale game, 2 mercury per week shouldnt pose a problem.

Final words: since bone beats black at stats, and black beats bone at resource cost, i think this PROOVES once and for all that in HOMM5 ballance is EVERYWHERE, EVEN in those "weak necro lvl7ths".
----------------------------------------------------------------

In general: necropolis units have a good growth rate, and have average stats. There are some units like wraiths, zombies, even bone dragons, wich might not be as flexible as othe HOMM creatures (they can be used in just a few methods, due to their lack of abilities) This is the real dissadvandage. The idea is to augment your flexible troops, and protect them, while you use the non-flexible ones to defend them or draw fire!

//----------------------------------------------------------------
ABOUT THE SPELL USAGE
//----------------------------------------------------------------

Why the Summoning+Dark magic are the best combo for necros? One of the factors is that in the mage guild, theese are the only ones you'll get!

Since my first pick was Summoning spells, lets see how theese can help the necromancers faction:We have here 2 useful damaging spells, 2 summoning spells to reinforce the armies, and some other potent spells to aid in certain situations where the necro is weak!

- the lvl1 spell fist of wrath is a useful combat spell for the beginning of the game. If your hero has nothing to do, why not throw a fist at the enemy! Do remember that this spell has no elemental status, its direct damage so ANYONE can be hit by it, even the Black Dragon.
- the land mines is a weak spell, castable only when completely bored of the fight
- raise dead -  no comment
- wasp swarm usefull for reducing ones turn, esp if you cast it on expert level
- earthquake: since this necromancer strategy SUCKS at sieging, this spell is invaluable!
- Phantom forces: one of my favourite spells in the game! Just imagine: double skellies, or double wraiths, or even bone dragons at expert level! It's pure madness!My advice is to use it on your ranged troops: skellies or liches, if you are CERTAIN the enemy will not reach them! This is how u can maximize this spell's potential!
- Firewall: a medium spell, can be used to bluff a wall in front of your skellies or other, so that the enemy will think again when charging them, OR can be used as a direct damage spell especially on other enemy ranged troops, to force them move away, or take serious casualities (a ranged unit sitting for all 3 turns in a 10 spelpower necromancer's firewall will get 500 damage )
- Summon elementals: this spell is the backbone of summoning, adding a valuable stack of damage dealing, damage taking units to fight for you on the battlefield! Just pray those aren't earth elementals!
- level 5 Arcane Armor: want to protect a creature stack even more than with mere skills of defense and vitality? Imagine casting this spell at expert level with 10 spellpoints on a stack of 1000 skellies:when hit, your skellies will recieve 50% less damage for a total of 1200 hitpoints!!At 20-25 spellpoints, it is increased above 2000 HP! A beautiful boost for the necromancers weak armies!
- level 5 Phoenix: another useful addition in your ranks, the phoenix can ressurect itself, making 2x trouble for the enemy! Lets take an average necro: level 10, with 10 spellpower. This is how a phoenix will look like on expert level! 20Atk, 20Def, 100-150 damage, 600HP. Not bad, eh? Now imagine the necro having the Master Of Conjuration skill, casting with +4 bonus spellpower!
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, lets review the dark spells: theese are spells that weaken the enemy, we have here 2 quite useful damaging spells, but a lot of VERY useful MASS weakening spells, with low mana cost!

- Weakness: one of the most basic, common, but also most powerful spell of the dark arts. At expert level and with mass effect, it causes all enemy troops to inflict ONLY THE MINIMUM DAMAGE in combat! Useful for creatures wuth BIG range of damage, like inferno troops.
- Slow: the second most common spells, at expert level, all enemy creatures have the initiative reduced by 40%, making your army faster than lightning! Very nice add for the average slow necro armies! If you're batteling sylvan, THIS is the spell of your choice!
- the vulnerability spell is a relatively weak-usable spell, by that i mean there are only SOME VERY FEW situations when you favor this spell.. like the time you were left battling a huge stack of level 7 creatures, then lowering its defense in every turn might prove useful!
- Decay is the first damage spell, it is somewhat useful when casting on an area, and especially useful against weak ranged units! Tip: cast it at the beginning of combat if you can! Not a very impressive spell...
- Confusion is a very confusing spell, both for you and for your opponent. Havent tried it much, so i cand give it too much credit. And i dont encourage using it, there are far more better death spells than this one.
- Suffering spell acts quite like the vulnerability spell, but it doesnt stack. Useful in more situations, not only on remaining large single stacks of 7ths! You can also use it on ranged troops wich you think you cant reach them very fast, in order to reduce their attack and thus inflict less damage over time until you can destroy them.
- level 5 Frenzie! It's the necromancer's BEST FRIEND! It actually takes as much enemy stacks as you can cast this spell and makes it your own, for even 2 turns! Use it well, use it wiseley, and it will do chaos in your opponent's ranks!
- Blindness is a versatile spell, disabling for some time the enemy stack. Still, it has fewer usages than the frenzie does...
- level 5 Puppet master, is on par with the frenzie spell! The difference? Here you can control only ONE enemy stack, but you can controll it entirely! Start the fight then pick one of your enemy's creatures to be your own! Then pair it with a couple of Frenzie, and the opponent will bleed with his hands tight! Quite annoying!
- level 5 Curse of the Netherworld is your second damage spell, not a formidable one, but useful in some situations, batteling weaker opponents, or fleeing ones! (at 10 spellpower expert level-> 150 dmg to all stacks, at 20 spellpower -> 220 damage)

The Necromancer spells are oriented on mana eficiency, mass effect, and army reinforcing. If caught or drained out of mana, any necromancer CAN make VERY good use of his remaining 2-3 spells, to help his now-not-so-weak army, and win the day!

//----------------------------------------------------------------
ABOUT FIGHTING HUMAN-OPPONENTS
//---------------------------------------------------------------

Notes: - the human opponents will be players with a normal experience in playing HOMM5, NOT expert-players with extreme strategies!
      - this part of the review is intended to demonstrate that any normal player with any type of castle can be beaten by a necromancer-user, and to give advice on how to combat each castle's main powers!
      - in theese advice and tips, i have not included the summoning tactics, or the phantom forces, because theese spells shoud be used in ANY battle to reinforce the necro army! I will write here how they should be used: summon elementals when you need defense, summon phoenixes for offense, phantom force tour skellies as much as you can, but if you wish better defense, phantom your wraiths, or bone dragons!
      - i know all seem hard, but it CAN be done! academy and fortress are the castles with wich Necropolis will have a VERY hard time with!

1.Haven
- here we have the nemessis of the necromancers' skellies, the battle-diving griffin! I guess there is no way you can have the first move on griffins, so the tactic is just to let him attack your skellies or if lucky, your lich, and then spend the next turns slaying the griffins, and ressurecting the skellies!
- here the crossbowmen are your BEST FRIENDS! why? because most of the times, haven stacks will be grouped, together, especially the shooters+ squires, for ranged protection! Now cast a frenzie on the crossbowmen, note that they inflict SERIOUS damage if the enemy stands closer than 3 tiles away, and see what happens!
- try to avoid the paladins charge! the enemy WILL certainly use him offensively, but remember your defense creatures, like the wraith! it deals serious damage, so have the wraith wait for the paladin, to hack him to pieces!
- if they movw, hack the conscripts with your vampire, and advance to kill the crossbowmen second! then the griffins or the priests (esp if you have lucretia!)
- when the paladin charge and the griffin battledive have stopped, attack with the ghosts and draw as much fire as possile.
- a mass slow spell will make be useful here!

2. Sylvan
- the most useful spell here is Slow! it will disable sylvan's most deadly wepon, their speed!
- fairies are weak, but the no retaliation ability will make a hard life for you if not dealt with them fast. Let your vamps take care of them!
- again, frenzie or controll with puppet master the elves, sylvans' most powerful stack, but only when they are not surrounded by other stacks!
- their dragons are susceptible to your spells!
- the treants will SURELY pose a serious problem. My advice: avoid them till you have defeeated all other creatures, then use the stacking vulnerability spell several times before charging, in the mean time ressurect your creatures and prepare for a tough fight!
- unicorns are very strong, try to waste their attacks on summoned creatures or on the ghosts incorporeal ability, or even on phantom forces!
- slay those druids fast with your ghosts, or else they will deal heavy damage to your armies

3. Inferno
- the weakness spell is your best friend here! almost all of the infernal creatures have a wide range damage and are ofensive creatures. Slow is to be noted too!
- again, slay their main spellcaster FAST, with ghosts, before the pit lord can cause you pain!Oh, and in any case, dont forget to disperse your units so that meteor shower if cast, cand have minimum effect!
- controlling their succubussses can be quite effective, but if you can puppet the pit lords, you have already won the fight!
- the infernal creatures will surely use their first turn to gate! this is your chance to do some damage and cast forth your spells, spells and actions that can help you later: use slow, send forth your ghosts without fear as close to the pitlords as possible, and then cast the weakness spell! When gated, use the vampires,your summon, and your wraith to hack them!

4. Academy
- this here is a spell powerful enemy! and the creature stats will depend of the usage of their artifacts, this is why here only a few advice can be given, the rest is up to your cunning and luck!
- you will not reach the mages in time, so try to control them! if you controll them from the beginning, or frenzie them, you can slay many enemies in a row, quite a good tactic!
- titans are your nemessis here, they cannot be controlled, so what do we do with uncontrolled creatures? we draw their fire away! Use summons, ghosts, or phantom forces!
- again, hack low creatures with vampires!
- watch out for golems!
- remember that here your magic CAN fade, because of their magic resistancies and their magic mirror skills, and so on... try to use your magic to augment your forces, not to weaken your opponent's!
- against academy, this will be a very hard battle!

5. Dungeon
- first thing that comes on my mind is the devastating damage of the blood maidens, and also their extremely weak state... so go forth and slay them with your vamps early!
- DO NOT USE VAMPS ON LVL1 DUNGEON ASASSINS! I do not know why many players do not know how an asassin must be used, because they ignore the "ranged penality" effect! Their ranged damage is 1/2 normal, and they do full damage in close combat! why does everyone say that they are powerful ranged units!? The ranged is only for delivering the poison quickly, and to weaken the enemy until it gets close enough for melee combat! In any case, no undead creature can be poisoned, so the asassin is useless at ranged combat! thats why they shouldn't be dealt by the vamps! leave them for later
- try not to be in the grim raider's range, or you will take serious casualities!
- draw fire of the dragons with summon/phantom/ghosts, while you hammer them with wraiths and your own dragons!
- minotaurs make excellent meat for vamps too!
- a slow spell will work miracles here, and if you manage to controll the hydras, then you have mastered their armies!
- one more thing! watch out for dammage spells! and especially area effect spells, so keep your units dispersed!

6. Fortress
- theese are tough warriors, and chaotic due to their runes! you cannot say when they will use their rune of charge, or the bersrking rune, dragonform and so on...
- so what CAN you do to oprevent this? Slow them, make them have fewer turns, this would be one thing, but in most cases they will be magic proof!
- my advice: improve your might and channel your magic to defend and augment your armies!
- usel lots of summoning to draw fire and ALSO to inflict damage! phantom forces will be your friends! cast themwhenever you need!
- raise your dead!
- use your vamps on the berserkers! NOT defenders!
- wall your skellies, and use them against magma dragons when they are close! deal with  the small creatures, and make a wall for the large creatures!(watch out for the dragon's breath!)
- hope you get lucky! fortress have some of the toughest, meanest, and especially the most flexible castles in my oppinion!

//-------------------------------------------------------------------

This is my review/walkthrough of the necropolis castle! To be noted i am NOT a necropolis fan, in fact i love fortress and heaven troops!
This review can be used by anynoe on any site, because it's meant only to help improve the Necropolis Castle's immage! I only ask for my nickname at the bottom of the review

BlackSk8er

____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
pomo
pomo


Famous Hero
The lone peasant
posted May 07, 2007 12:31 PM

Well, given that you've mentioned your review is based on 2.0 and you're talking about 3k skellies, I think we can pretty safely ignore your review...

No offence, but everyone is already playing with the new necromancy system, so why did you base your review on the old one?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 07, 2007 12:45 PM

Phew, long rewiew but, unfortunately most of it is simply not true and some things are just funny(like saying that specter dragons>black dragons).

Id shorten my necro review to :

Either phoenix,puppet master,frenzy can win you the game or don't bother.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
BlackSk8er
BlackSk8er

Tavern Dweller
posted May 07, 2007 12:55 PM

Quote:
Phew, long rewiew but, unfortunately most of it is simply not true and some things are just funny(like saying that specter dragons>black dragons).


I challange you to proove the contrary! I already stated my ideas!
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
BlackSk8er
BlackSk8er

Tavern Dweller
posted May 07, 2007 01:02 PM

Quote:
Well, given that you've mentioned your review is based on 2.0 and you're talking about 3k skellies, I think we can pretty safely ignore your review...

No offence, but everyone is already playing with the new necromancy system, so why did you base your review on the old one?



1. its the only version i have
2. the "new necromancy system" is kinda new, so no one can make a good review this early on, and the "old necro" has been played and played a lot, but noone has made a good review until now, but almost all complained it is a weaker town than the other ones! I just prooved them wrong. (i didnt proove they were BETTER though.)
3. whats with the 3k skellies? i had 5k in a big map fight! When you battle a throng of peasants with expert necro+ other necromancy bonuses, u raise couple of hundreds per fight EASY.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
BlackSk8er
BlackSk8er

Tavern Dweller
posted May 07, 2007 01:05 PM

Quote:

Either phoenix,puppet master,frenzy can win you the game or don't bother.


Yeah... YOU cast a phoenix in battle, then let one stack of pitlords destroy your whole army in a single meteor shower... Did the phoenix win you the game?

If your final action is the "don't bother" action, then why are you browsing this thread anyway....?
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted May 07, 2007 01:11 PM

dude the ammount of text is great but it's outdated, come on why to bother with strategies that can't work because the whole system has been changed? You can aswell write strategies to 1.00 klaus or dougal aswell, but what for?

agree with feluniozbunio, dark magic is a good way, although summoning is certainly worth to pick for a poor man's MMR (with MotN)

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
BlackSk8er
BlackSk8er

Tavern Dweller
posted May 07, 2007 01:17 PM

so im conpuzzled! the complains were for the old or the new system? (that the necro is weaker)
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Pomo
Pomo


Famous Hero
The lone peasant
posted May 07, 2007 01:39 PM

The new one.

And why don't you just get the new version? Everyone else has had it for three months.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Lesij
Lesij


Famous Hero
posted May 07, 2007 02:37 PM

Geeeez, poor dud.
He was trying to make a great first impression and you did depressed him ...
Maybe wee should start again?
Dud, tell us ur name and how long do you play Homm etc. and don't feel angry or sad about what they have written to you ...
(cuz it is true )
and download da patch!!!
...Then write a review...
you should also visit that site to check out news...


____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 07, 2007 03:14 PM
Edited by feluniozbunio at 15:15, 07 May 2007.

Hehe , perhaps Lesij is right sorry if it was rude or something, i wasn't meant to be offensive It's just like they say, its outdated. Old necro was very good castle, they didn't even need their spells to win games because their skeletons were so strong. Now things have changed. Skeletons are weak, you get few troops with necromancy and magic has become only viable weapon. Its nice article ..but its few months too late for it nobody plays 2.0 nowadays.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
BlackSk8er
BlackSk8er

Tavern Dweller
posted May 07, 2007 03:14 PM

I was just looking for some impressions one day through the forum and saw the complains about the necro. Im not one of those life-wasting gamers and i certainly dont want to make an impression!

I CAN call myself a gamer though, since homm1,warcraft and dune, so strategy IS my middle name. And for the patch to homm5 i have to install other patches, and other ones and so forth. Plus, i am not sure if official patches work with cracked games (i dont give my money for my games). So its kinda pointless since HoF addon is so well made!

Question: except the "The Necromancy working principles" that have been changed, what other changes are there in the latest patch to necros? creature stats? costs?
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
baklava
baklava


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
posted May 07, 2007 03:37 PM

Quote:
So its kinda pointless since HoF addon is so well made!


Yeah uhm but there's a patch for it as well...
Quote:
Plus, i am not sure if official patches work with cracked games (i dont give my money for my games)

They do, you only need to download a different crack for each version
COUGH
I mean, cracking is evil...
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
BlackSk8er
BlackSk8er

Tavern Dweller
posted May 07, 2007 03:41 PM

Thats my point (a different crack), but im too lazy to search for them
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
TemjinGold
TemjinGold


Known Hero
posted May 07, 2007 03:50 PM

About your Black vs. Spectral analysis. There's a couple of problems with it:

1) You compared 1 Black to 2 Spectral. You should be comparing the growth with a castle because "long games" will definitely have a castle. That's 2 Black vs. 3 Spectral, a much better ratio than 1 vs. 2.

2) You simply doubled the HP and damage on Spectral. But this causes 2 problems:

a) Black goes first (the Spectral cannot reach the Black in 1 turn but the Black CAN reach the Spectral).

b) Spectral will lose half of that damage when one of it dies. (This is why one tougher creature is stronger than 2 weaker ones).

c) This comparison gets worse when you actually compare it properly (2 Black vs. 3 Spectral) because 2 Blacks and 3 Spectrals have the same total HPs (480) but the Blacks hit first, do more damage (90-140 vs. 75-105), and damage doesn't shrink as fast (Spectrals die quicker).

3) Spectral isn't weak mainly because of creature stats (though that is still a big reason). It's weak mainly because of dwelling costs. Everything Necro needs mercury, so you simply won't have that much mercury to go around. In that big map of yours, it's actually possible for dungeon to have MORE blacks than you have spectrals because they will have the dwelling up way before you do, even if you CAN grow faster once you have it.

Even on your skewed comparison of 1 Black vs. 2 Spectrals, the Black still wins. Did you even try it or did you just post numbers? Here, I'll do it for you:

1 Black does 45-70 damage base. That is an average damage of 52.5. The black dragon has 2 more attack than the spectral's defense, so that's +10% damage for a total of 63.25 damage per hit. I'll round that down to 63.

2 Spectrals do a combined damage of 50-70 for an average damage of 60. Same attack as Black's defense, so no bonus or penalty.

Here's the fight (Black always hits first because Spectral cannot reach Black in 1 turn with 7 speed).

240        320
          257  (Round 1)
180 (Round 2)
          194  (Round 3)
120 (Round 4)
          131  (Round 5) (1 Spectral dies so damage drops to 30)
90  (Round 6)
           68  (Round 7)
60  (Round 8)
            5  (Round 9)
30  (Round 10
            0  (Round 11) (Both spectrals dead)

The bigger the ratio (like 5 vs. 10 or something), the worse for the spectral because it means the black can wiped out some spectrals in the first hit before the spectrals can do anything. With the proper comparison of 2 blacks vs. 3 spectrals ratio (which still has the spectrals costing more overall), the fight would be much more lopsided.

If you don't believe those numbers, test it yourself. Make a new hero and give one 1 Black and the other 2 Spectrals. Run the fight 10 times. I guarantee the black comes out ahead the vast majority of times.


 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
BlackSk8er
BlackSk8er

Tavern Dweller
posted May 07, 2007 04:15 PM

You are right with the 2 to 3 ratio. But wether the black reaches spectral in round one or not, it's the player's choice! I certainly wouldnt attack a stack of spectrals with my black, if there is a wraith nearby... So the "who hits who" debate is tied to tactics rather than creature strength.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
TemjinGold
TemjinGold


Known Hero
posted May 07, 2007 04:36 PM

What?! Your argument was that 2 Spectrals are stronger than 1 Black so I proved to you otherwise. What's this crap about "who hits who tied to tactics"? And trust me, if you have wraiths in your army (in 2.0), my black dragon stack will trample BOTH of your stacks due to the insane mercury requirements for both. Do you even play the game or do you just like to talk?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Istari
Istari


Known Hero
Truth Teller, ToH
posted May 07, 2007 05:03 PM

Quote:
[2. the "new necromancy system" is kinda new, so no one can make a good review this early on, and the "old necro" has been played and played a lot, but noone has made a good review until now, but almost all complained it is a weaker town than the other ones! I just prooved them wrong. (i didnt proove they were BETTER though.)



Uh, I reviewed the New Necromancer back in March.  It went something like this...

A comprehensive strategy

I am working on tips and strategies for the new Necromancer.  Below is a comprehensive strategy using the new Necromancer.  It resembles MMR, but I am one of the many players out there who could never figure out how to use MMR effectively with the Academy so don¡¦t be put off by the MMR similarity.  I call this strategy comprehensive because it includes all the detailed info you need to implement it with nothing left to the imagination.  My goal is that someone who completely new to the Necromancer will be able to read and implement this, and maybe an experienced player can pull something useful out of this too.



Overview:
Level up hero as fast as possible and expand quickly using Necromancy and magic.  Use second hero later in game with troops accumulated in castle.

Map Selection:
This strategy works best on a large map.  I mostly play multi-player hot seat games and individual maps.  Typically I play a random map set to the largest size, no underground, hard monster strength and select random towns so I can pick the Necromancer.  I play this map on hard difficulty.  

Hero Selection:
For this strategy the best choice is Naadir because he starts with basic necromancy, basic summoning, and basic dark magic.  His special is ok, but with Naadir there is no risk in skill selection.  

Resource/gold/artifact:
I take artifact and hope for the best.  Lots of times its useless, but the few resources aren¡¦t going to help much, and gold isn¡¦t a problem.  

Build Plan:
*the village hall and tavern should already be built*
Day1- skeletons
Day2- skeleton archers
Day3- zombies
Day4- Mage Guild 1
Day5- Town Hall
Day6- Pillar of Bones
Day7- Mage Guild 2
Week 2
Day1- vampires
Day2- Mage Guild 3
Day3- City Hall
Day4- marketplace
Day5- Mage Guild 4
Day6- Mage Guild 5
Day7- Liches
Week 3
Day1- Capitol
From here there is some variety in building.  I upgrade vampires if I have a lot from Necromancy.  If not, I just focus on Fort, Ghosts, Citadel, Castle, Netherworld, and Wraiths.  I typically get dragons in week 4 (man that¡¦s a lot of wood and ore!).  The only other thing to keep in mind resource-wise is sulfur is likely to be your biggest problem in getting to Mage Guild 5 (Because the pillar of bones takes 10 sulfur).  Keep your eye out on the adventure map and prioritize sulfur.  If you do this you should be fine.  Also I had you build a marketplace so you can trade if you need to.  I¡¦ve used this strategy several times and it is rarely an issue.  

Action plan:
Buy the 2nd Necro Hero (and 3rd if you were fortunate enough to start with 2 Necro Hero¡¦s in your tavern).  Transfer your bought skeletons and your 2nd (and 3rd) hero¡¦s troops to Naadir.  Scout with your 2nd hero and find your wood and ore mines.  All things being equal, take the ore mine on the first day.  If you can reach your wood mill on the 1st or 2nd day then take it too.  Often times it will lay just out of reach of your 2nd turn and on the other side of your castle.  If this is the case, run Naadir into the castle on day two.  If you have movement left then upgrade you skeletons and go get the wood mill.  If not hang out in the castle and leave day 3 with some extra zombies.  You have to have both wood and ore by day 3- no excuses.  

Fight Plan
Your fighting strategy involves putting splitting your zombies into stacks 5 stacks of 1 zombie each, 1 big stack of skeleton archers and 1 stack with the left over zombies.  Put your skeleton archers in the corner and surround them with the stacks of 1 zombies.  Leave the larger stack of zombies off the battlefield most of the time.  Focus you fire on one enemy stack.  Knocking it down gives you a ghost to divert their attention to.  Be conservative with raise dead, saving it for the end of the battle especially until you get Mark of the Necromancer (MOTN).  Don¡¦t worry about losing a couple zombies or ghosts per battle.

Raising Plan:
As you fight the first week you can probably raise everyone and not run out of DE.  Into the 2nd and 3rd week, if there are plenty of people around you to fight you need to be selective about who you raise.  I prefer ghosts early on.  Once I get about 8 ghosts in my army I give all the zombies to my 2nd hero and use ghosts as my defensive shield (their incorporeal ability comes in handy).  If I am near my castle I will raise skeletons and upgrade them.  If not I ignore skeletons and really look for creatures to turn to skeleton archers.  The skeleton archers are the backbone of your creeping in the first 2-3 weeks.  In week 2 we add some vampires from the castle as well as buying the extra skeleton archers.  I  The raise focus is not on vampires.  Anytime you can raise vampires, do it.  Vampires are one of the few creature that are worth postponing a fight to renew your Dark Energy (DE).  

Mines:
Don¡¦t worry about clearing every mine in your area.  Count your resources and the resources you need to follow your building plan and focus on those.  That may mean reaching out for an early mine (sulfur), or just collecting the right resource piles.  

Skill Development:
When you level up you are offered a new skill and an improvement to an old skill.  This is how we know you will always be offered either Necromancy, Dark Magic, or Summoning Magic.  Don¡¦t level up anything but these three skills.  (*Exception- take MOTN as soon as you see it no matter what, there is no guarantee as to when it will be offered and you want it so bad you can taste it¡K and it tastes like burnt chicken).  Following this level up plan you are guaranteed to have Expert Necromancy, Expert Summoning, and Expert Dark magic and level 7 (although hopefully you¡¦re at level 8 with MOTN).  Every time I¡¦ve played I¡¦ve been to at least level 8 by week 3.  This may involve leaving your area a little to take out more neutral creatures, but you shouldn¡¦t stray too far.  Here¡¦s the secret (not really a secret to a lot of players) take all Experience from chests.  *Pause to let people¡¦s impulse to hate this idea to subside*.  Money is not a problem with Necromancers.  Buying mage guild¡¦s ($1000 each) throughout the 2nd week ensures that you¡¦ll have enough $ for your capitol.  Also you aren¡¦t buying many troops, because you don¡¦t have many creature dwellings at this point¡K most of you army is raised FOR FREE!

More Action:
As you are getting close to level 7 or 8 start planning your battles.  Circle back to your castle, killing people you¡¦ve left before.  When you master the technique you will be at least level 7 or 8 at the beginning of week 3.  Learn your magic and recruit the vampires skeleton archers and liches.  If you have 20 vampires or more, upgrade them to vamp lords at the beginning of week 3.  Now you are ready for the big wide world.  Most maps are designed with all your mines in a semi-enclosed area with 1 or 2 ¡§guards¡¨ (tougher neutral creatures) guarding your territory.  It¡¦s now time to leave the nest and break out of your territory.  There should still be some creatures, artifacts, and mines left unclaimed in your territory- don¡¦t worry about those¡K just walk on by.  Your 1st Necro is now an independent free form warrior.  Go forth and conquer.  Hopefully you have either puppet master or summon phoenix.  If you don¡¦t have either of though I will sometimes use arcane armor on my vampires and curse of the netherworld isn¡¦t too bad.  There¡¦s a real good chance you¡¦ll get some good spells though (slow, wasp swarm, phantom force, confusion, puppet master, summon phoenix, even firewall and blind can be used effectively.)  Is it possible to get completely screwed with spells? Yes.  Is it likely? No.  Let¡¦s not forget you will be taking castles soon and stealing their spells.  Speaking of castle taking, if you find another necromancer on the map go for them first.  The extra DE and spells are a delight.  

More on raising:
Once you are in the big wide world, your raise priority may shift a little.  I raise just about whatever I need to use up my DE.  But assuming there are some options my 1st army usually carries skeleton archers, ghosts, spectre, vampires, vampire lords, liches, and archliches.  If enough wraiths or wrights are available I will take one of them instead of probably the spectres (ghosts need a slot because of haunted mines).  I gave some #¡¦s on the amount of damage each creature does per DE required to raise it in a previous post but here it is again so everything is in the same place:

Skeleton- 159
Skeleton Archer- 153

Zombie- 123
Plague Zombie- 148

Ghost- 122
Spectre- 153

Vampire- 140
Vampire Lord- 137

Lich- 181
Archlich- 208

Wright- 191
Wraith- 198

Bone Dragon- 124
Spetral Dragon- 180
For a better understanding of these numbers see the first post on this disscusion thread.

More on skills:
Now that you have expert necromancy, summoning, and dark magic its time to think about what else to get.  MOTN, you want MOTN, if you don¡¦t have MOTN, get MOTN as soon as possible¡K did I mention MOTN, seriously you should have that by now.  I then keep my eyes open for logistics, luck, and enlightenment.  If none of these are offered I take Master of Life, Master of Conjugation, Haunted mines, and Master of mind.  You should have enough desirable abilities to hold you over until you get the other skills you want.  At level 23 (where my character usually gets before final battle) an ideal (and realistic) build (am I using parentheses too much?) is:
Expert Necromancer- MOTN (3 lvls)
Expert Summoning-  Master of Life, Master of Conjugation, Haunted Mines (5 lvls)
Expert Dark- Master of Mind (3 lvls)
Expert Enlightenment- Intellegence (4 lvls)
Expert Luck- Resourcefulness (4 lvls)
Expert Logistics- Pathfinding (4 lvls)

2nd Hero
Ok, so our 1st hero is in the big wide world taking castles, collecting mines, artifacts, and resources, gaining experience, and making his army bigger and bigger.  The great thing about this plan is that the 2nd hero is not stuck sucking his thumb.  The second hero waits ¡¥til week 4, then buys all the remaining Necro troops in the castle (sometimes not zombies- I hate those guys¡K sorry ZombieLord).  Start cleaning up your local territory with this second hero.  As your 2nd Hero levels up you get more DE.  Don¡¦t raise anything with your second hero, your 1st hero needs the troops out at the front lines, and #2 can replenish from the castle.  Also now you can finally take the rest of your local mines and artifacts.  You¡¦ll get double production out of mines because you¡¦ll have foreign mines by now.  In this way your #2 can stay close to your castle and be ready to defend it, while #1 frolics worry free about the rest of the map.  *pausing for applause¡K then gracious smile*  once your 2nd hero clears your area and is strong enough he can leave too.  Explore in a different direction then your #1.  Assuming there are only two ways into your territory, you¡¦ll be well scouted for an assault on your castle and make it difficult for anyone to get behind you.  Depending how long the game goes and ho many castles you acquire this process can repeat making your 2 hero an independent force who is allowed to raise some creatures and bringing in a 3rd hero with castle troops.  Remember you have a necropolis converter to turn other faction¡¦s troops into your own (very useful).  

The finale:
While you will likely annihilate the computer, any one of your hero¡¦s won¡¦t stand up well to another human.  You have a couple of options.  If you get attacked by a human before you¡¦re ready, surrender (you should usually have plenty of $).  You save your troops and you know where he is.  Combine your forces from your other hero(es) and kick his but.  Or, taunt him.  Use your two hero advantage to hamstring him.  Get between him and his castle and take it out.  If he retreats to his castle take his mines and all the other castles and overpower him whenever you want.  If you win the adventure map (take more castles, get better artifacts, have more $, and more experience) then you won¡¦t have any problem against another human.  

Ps. Zotan and Vladimir are good to, but not as perfect as Naadir.  Kaspar is now longer top dog.  Now that MOTN is easily accessible he¡¦s not needed for creeping and the end game is better with the skills I listed (War Machines not on the list).  Enjoy, If this was all review to you then don¡¦t read it (try to figure that out ƒº).    


 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
BlackSk8er
BlackSk8er

Tavern Dweller
posted May 07, 2007 05:14 PM
Edited by BlackSk8er at 17:15, 07 May 2007.

Quote:
What?! Your argument was that 2 Spectrals are stronger than 1 Black so I proved to you otherwise. What's this crap about "who hits who tied to tactics"? And trust me, if you have wraiths in your army (in 2.0), my black dragon stack will trample BOTH of your stacks due to the insane mercury requirements for both. Do you even play the game or do you just like to talk?


I made a few notes at the beginning of my review wich points that resources shouldnt be a problem. (its a large game, there would be plenty of resources, if not, have you ever heard of trade or resource silo)

And the "who hits who" was your argument I aggreed you on the 2:3 ratio, but "who  hits who" and the mercury/resource problem you posted are tied to the players ability to play and develope, and (why not?) to his luck in finding those resources and using them wisely.

My review was strictly about the castle's POWER not the players' skills at playing the game properly!
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
BlackSk8er
BlackSk8er

Tavern Dweller
posted May 07, 2007 05:18 PM

And for Istari, that review is about the players tactics at developing and growing, not on the tactics and the creatures of the battle. Theese are 2 different things.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Jump To: « Prev Thread . . . Next Thread » This thread is 5 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · NEXT»
Post New Poll    Post New Topic    Post New Reply

Page compiled in 0.1562 seconds