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| Thread: ToTe skills - a small analysis :) |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · NEXT» |
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted September 28, 2007 12:47 PM |
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ToTe skills - a small analysis :)
I know there are topics about ToTe already, but I couldn't resist creating one after I've took a brief look at skillwheels posted in the demo thread!  So don't close this one alc plz 
Ok, I found it very interesting and quite a good choice to provide more skills after all..
KNIGHT
A very interesting part is the easily accessible empathy, which needs quite obvious pick (divine guidance) and is a part of leadership which has a 15% chance of popping up. It fixes the problem with usless third skill for leadership with knights and gives a lot of potential. Another interesting point is that knights benefit from almost all light skills in this game now, including the eternal light, which is also quite easily accessible through master of abjuration. Flaming arrows, accessible with attack--> archery, can become a serious cheese in any multiplayer game with Vittorio, so we can safely say this hero will quickly become banned at small maps. Easy access to retribution is retained. In general,t he knight enjoys steady, but significant boost to his usefulness.
Ultimate - While it requires a natural pick (empathy), it requires guardian angel, which may become a bad pick with eternal light around. Also, it requires not-very-useful last stand. if I wanted to go for defence, preparation, now available to knights, would be the perk of my choice. In other words, meh. It's still unstoppable charge, btw.
DEMONLORD
Whew! The first thing I noticed is that TRIPLE BALLISTA skill is available without much effort, meaning Deleb is a nasty cheesy joke now (possibly banned from every map). Oh, wait, you can get flaming arrows, too... No, this IS a joke. Deleb is obviously banned since now They also have access to counterspell, which, paired with familiars and huge knowlegde, finally gives a decent solution for dark magic users. Unfortunately, that's more or less all, since most of the new perks are locked within the "2%" skills, which makes hardly any benefit. In other words, except ridiculous Deleb buff, we don't get much.
Ultimate - Well, Tele assault and flaming arrows are natural picks anyway (at least for Deleb). The bad part is you need corrupted soil, which is connected to the not-very-useful master of pain AND weakening strike, which makes it impossible to get the best of dark magic; master of curses& mind. Ah well. You can always go for counterspell deleb with urgash's call, she wouldn't cast any dark anyway.
RANGER
The ranger was always a decent hero. Now, he can boost his destructive, bearing both warlock's luck and cold death (wee hee imbue rain of arrows with circle of ice please ) Retribution is available too, and connected to quite good skills (nature's wrath and battle frenzy), which makes wyngaal a nice choice. It unlocks divine guidance from leadership, another interesting motive to make those anger treants useful. Ohh, and our beloved preparation is there too, making treants even more annoying 
Ultimate - don't ask.. it's still the overpowered skill, and now it needs quite useful and easy to obtain skills.. Elven luck which most of us would pick anyway, familiar ground which is quite decent and refined mana, fortunately locking elven choice to master of wrath when it comes to light magic, But hey, master of wrath is very useful anyway.. ohh boy..
WIZARD
now, except summoning cheese and light magic, you can also zap the enemies to pieces with warlock's luck+motw.. of course cold death and ignite are here too! Havez can now use triple ballista (yay -_-)and of course we couldn't miss eternal light and mentoring.. Wizard was a powerhouse already, now its just a few new toys for him more.
ultimate - As Elvin noticed (silly me ;-x), havez can't pick tremors due to 1 slot already occupied by ballista. Well, that makes the ultimate pretty much sucky when it comes to requisites, I mean with classical magic approach there is no room for warmachines..
RUNEMAGE
Not much has changed here, really. You can now get warlock's luck, but you need unreasonable 2% sorcery perk, which makes it a choice for one hero (the one that starts with sorcery, forgot his name, bah). Oh, and divine guidance/tele assault is there, just don't count on the latter, since it's locked in another 2% skill. Not much of a power-up for dwarves, I would say.
Ultimate - as you've probably guessed, they screwed it by making 4% skill a pre-requisite. Arcane armor is fun, but wtf, the chances of getting it are so low. Whatever. You also need preparation and sap magic - the latter has a pretty weird route of getting it, making the dwarven ultimate quite difficult to obtain. balance matter? Well, looking at the easily attainable absolute luck, I wouldn't say so..
WARLOCK
now you need magic resistance and dark ritual to get warlock's luck, how "fun".. at least you no longer need to pick mana regeneration for erratic mana, cuz the pre-requisite is now empowered spells  Cold death and ignite are here, though, making some of the "masteries" at least worth considering. Empathy makes kythra an interesting warlock (she starts with leadership). You can also get retribution for her. Swift mind is also possible, although it needs arcane intuition, a perk that is considered pretty useless. Well, slight nerf of warlock's luck makes things a bit less abusive and a bit weaker, but for exchage, we have thingies like ignite to make life more fun.
Ultimate - bad thing no.1 needs magic insight which screws your "ultimate" sorcery path, bad thing no.2 it needs all the masteries of destruction, which screws much more useful perks like cold death and secrets of destruction. I'd say skip it.
NECROMANCER
Strangely, they got nerfed. Forget the haunted mines - you need herald of death to get it, which is a part of worthless skill and very hard to get too (2% leadership). Cold steel is pretty much out too, since you need master of ice, and destructive is still a bad idea. Also, nothing new when it comes to dark, sorcery and other necro-related skills. Definitely they got the worst changepack in the game.
Ultimate - screwed again, requires perks like master of pain, scholar, arcane exaltation, banish.. great choice, Nival >_> ah well, at least it requires necromancer-orientated skills: dark, enlightment and summoning.
So, I'd say the knight, Demonlord (deleb only..) and Wizard benefit from good perk additions, while Elves certainly enjoy their easy to get and overpowered ultimate. Necromancers got screwed, Rune mages and warlocks don't benefit much. ^_^
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 28, 2007 01:04 PM |
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My thoughts as well. One thing though Havez already starts with ballista perk(unless he's changed) doesn't this prevent him from taking the other warmachines requirements? Btw I should take a look at the heroes in tavern, wonder if any had their starting skills changed for picking the ultimate easier. Last I recall only a few could learn nature's luck.
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted September 28, 2007 01:09 PM |
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hey, you're right - he can't. Gonna update the first post.. dunno why I counted 4 skills instead of 3 for him ^_^
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Sanyu
Known Hero
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posted September 28, 2007 01:26 PM |
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On a rather unrelated note, I think wizards will be new crazy spells powerhouse if they should take light magic. did anyone check out how ridiculously imba the new spell divine vengeance is...? with warlock's luck.....
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted September 28, 2007 01:30 PM |
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divine vengence + warlock's luck + motw, anyone?
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NIght_Heaven
Adventuring Hero
Lonely star in heaven dream
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posted September 28, 2007 01:48 PM |
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Can you please be more specific about those ultimate skills? Are you meaning that now are new ways of getting to the ultimate? Please post some screens or something.
On the other hand...now wizard need light magic? And have warlocks luck? Oho..I sense a big advantage here. And besides the lame ultimate Haven skill, what else did you noticed? Did the wizards get new abilities? Mentoring?Or what?
And about demons...another powerfull Heroes from this faction?This faction already was soo strong...off.. I presume Dungeon are stronger...
What about Sylvans? What they require? Lots of answer I should stop now sorry
Nice thread. See ya
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 28, 2007 02:01 PM |
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Wizards and runemages will usually not get their ultimate. Runemages only in maps with witch huts or luck and wizards because it plainly sucks. What to depend on, warmachines with no ballista? Sorcery with no spells? Seriously...
Also why do rangers get the best ultimate so easily(with good skills too) when the others either get a lesser ultimate or will not bother because it's not worth it?
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted September 28, 2007 02:04 PM |
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Night_heaven:
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=23638&pagenumber=2
check this thread, third post.. it has all the skeelwheels so you can check all the requisites and new skills yourself
Elvin:
It's called "Nival's balance". Good things become useless. Bad things become broken
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kermit
Known Hero
Soul hunter
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posted September 28, 2007 02:11 PM |
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NIght_Heaven
Adventuring Hero
Lonely star in heaven dream
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posted September 28, 2007 02:59 PM |
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OH MY GOD !!! What the HELL is that???? Pfff that is sooo unbalanced.
Lets see...
Wizard require warmachines for their ultimate.Boomer.One level wastet on mentoring,one on remote control and one on arcane excelence. All races except orcs can get counterspell fast so the wizard is no more the fearsome he\she was. More...if the wizard is trying to achive the ultimate he\she cant get warlocks luck. Retribution cant be taken without leadership so is usless.The artifacts can boost +4 morale. Distract cant be taken if you achive ultimate. Soo bad.Plus you need consume artifact for ultimate.Again...worse.
So...wizard skills have been tottaly mixed up...nothing good here. Bah..3\10 to Wizard.
Warlock. All skillg are good for achiving the ultimate except Dark ritual. Very good skills. 10\10 for Warlock
Runemage. All skills except master of earthblood are perfect here. Defense is good for everything. Summoning magic has the right skill -exorcism. 9\10 for Runemage.
Ranger has some good skills except silent stalker is usless. Light magic is required for attack(righterous magic). 10\10 For ranger
Necromancers have good ones except scholar.Very good choices of abilities. 9\10.
Knight -dosent matter nobody will go for ultimate. Great skills thou. Not graded.
Demon lord hmm..except dark magic all seems to be superb here. 7\10.
Barbarian- very very good. All skills come in handy except recruitment. 9\10.
Soo...what we get with this completely new Heroes 5 update and ToE? Well..Wizards are now tottaly screwed in skills. The presence of counter spell in every race makes them even more weak. Warlok and Ranger are the best of the plot they will destroy everything. Runemage and Necromancer are better for use now. Great! Imagine now the Necro ruch tadaaaam necro rullzz again. Thanks God for Orcs. Haven dosent matter anyway they cant train as much as they can so they are in -. My opinion has been said. I will come back with more complex analisis.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted September 28, 2007 03:07 PM |
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Quote:
The presence of counter spell in every race makes them even more weak.
Even more? They were the strongest faction of HoMMV and HoF. Counterspell can be broken by unit casters, plus it requires ridiculous ammounts of mana, pretty much only demonlords with familiars can handle it.
Quote:
Runemage and Necromancer are better for use now. Great!
What made you draw conclusions completely opposite to mine?
Quote:
Imagine now the Necro ruch tadaaaam necro rullzz again.
Huh? Can you elaborate this? I see nerfed necro, not boosted necro myself.
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NIght_Heaven
Adventuring Hero
Lonely star in heaven dream
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posted September 28, 2007 03:21 PM |
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First of all because of the skills. Then is because wizards now need warmachines.Not even balissta but catapult...that is bad.Next, necor and runemage have better skills for achiving the ultimate.The ultimate for Runemage is soo powerfull it sill finish wizards in a moment. Necro rushers are very good at those spells(dark and summon). Is all they need. And with that ultimate they can step on wizards like elephants on flies.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted September 28, 2007 03:23 PM |
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You seem very ultimate biased 
First of all runemages have 4% chance to get sumonning
second, necros need a lot of useless skills to reach it
third, wizards don't need ultimates to be the strongest faction in game..
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NIght_Heaven
Adventuring Hero
Lonely star in heaven dream
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posted September 28, 2007 03:39 PM |
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Oh really?They need better skills than those thou. And now that the skills are soo easy to get...I think they make good diffrence.
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kermit
Known Hero
Soul hunter
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posted September 28, 2007 03:46 PM |
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Ultimate isn't everything, it takes 25 lucky skillpoints to get there,
and it might not be such a big advatage after all. What really shifts balance is the new perk possibilites like counter spell for demon lord or warlocks luck for wizard. They give a whole new dimension to the way heroes are built and create new strengths as well as countermeasures for factions. Imo might factions (rangers, knights and demon lords) got quite a good deal out of it, while magic factions (wizards, dark elves, necro) will have a tougher time finding holes.
I believe that the prolification of available hero builds and counter builds will call for quite unpredictable encounters.
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dschingi
Famous Hero
the guy with the dragon golem
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posted September 28, 2007 04:05 PM |
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Empathy could be even better for Sylvan than for haven since their high initiative boosts the bonus even more. Ok Haste can be cast by both, no difference there. If they get Attack it's also possible to take Power of Speed from there and focus on destructive + imbue arrow in combination with empathy for fast/medium games. For Preperation you would also need Attack, and except for creeping with Treants I don't think it's so useful for Sylvan. Eternal Light may actually be a nice skill for them.
Elemental Balance is easy to get now for everyone. Might be funny for a Necro vs Academy fight
It's nice to have several options for each skill, and that you can choose to take weaker abilities fast, or the good ones which cost more levelups. I just hope it won't be too difficult to get the abilities you want.
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phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted September 28, 2007 04:07 PM |
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I still don't understand the use of empathy for necro.
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted September 28, 2007 04:08 PM |
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Notice that with more perks available, there is less chance for each of them to appear. After all, they are all fighting for same spot on level up screen.
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phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted September 28, 2007 04:15 PM |
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And even supposing you got the necro ultimate luck and morale can go well above 5 now so...
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted September 28, 2007 04:23 PM |
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they can? duh.. go crazy 10 luck warlock ?
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