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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted November 07, 2007 05:51 PM |
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Quote:
Get someone else to choose it and then take credit then.
That's the plan. 
Now, here's a creation myth I made some time ago for a project which never took off. I dug it up a short time ago. What the hey, maybe it can work for this project. 
THE SANCTUARY
An influx of the power of the ages: Magic. The six powers that forge Magic: Air, Water, Earth, Fire, Thought and Void.
Such a meeting is powerful enough to create life, when wrought correctly.
Without a beginning, without an end, the Universe. Unending and incomprehensible to the unenlightened.
Yet an influx can shed light upon the matter. Light... and darkness.
Air. The whisper of life. Required for living survival, both harsh and gentle, unseen and untouched.
Water. The essence of life. Shaper of planets, bearer of lands, mysterious and undeniably powerful.
Earth. The anvil of life. Everywhere and omnipresent, capable of causing destruction, but bears life.
Fire. The soul of life. Bringer of Chaos, naturally wild, the expression and emotion of nature itself.
Thought. The heart of life. Devourer of destiny, granter of free will, the great meaning of existence.
Void. The shadow of life. Cradle of the dead, hall of those awaiting rebirth, bitter yet necessary.
The six elements converge, and life is born. Hundreds of glimmering lights soar among the stars, white sparks of life. They form into a gleaming sphere, glimmering white amidst the black abyss. The sparks of light create a full, perfect geoid. They multiply at an amazing rate, changing colour and warping the geoid's shape into physical substance. An ominous red sky, deep blue ground seperating and breaking away at unbelievable speed, and a lush crimson ocean. The marks of a newborn planet.
Then comes true life. The sparks of life surround the world with leys, unseen tunnel-like strands which bear profound energy, and from a source beyond our mortal comprehension, Magic flows into the world. Pure power, pure light and darkness. It is born. Millions of tiny specks of Magic take on a physical form of their own, and Thought is formed. Sentient spirits are born, each of them sharing the same mind, the same consciousness, none of them tarnished. The leys finally converge at the centre of the planet to form the Core, the Heart of the World, creating a wellspring of mystical energy. As long as the Core remains enveloped in this power, so shall the planet's inhabitants shall be granted the power to shape it for their own uses.
As time passes in the blink of an eye, the red sky quickly turns to many hues. Blue, grey, white, they all envelop it. The earth is transformed into numerous textures and colours. The crimson ocean becomes pure teal as the colour of the ground seeps away and attempts to pentrate the surface of the world, failing. The unified consciousness is shattered, and each creature is born. Most lack the Sentience, but a minority, the first to be born, retain their wisdom and self-awareness. In the wake of true life's formation, the sentient Void casts a shadow of the world to craft a ghostly memory of itself, the Netherworld. The Heart of the World reserves it for those who lose the gift of life, for their spirits to await rebirth.
Who created this world? What was their intention? What of the other planets in the endless abyss that is the Universe? What purpose do they serve? Does it matter? Sentience is the most powerful of all gifts, and the world embraced it.
It is a Sanctuary, a Sanctuary of life.
It is Sceracion.
(Note: So basically, as ever, we don't have a clue who created the world... yet. Sceracion means Sanctuary in some language we have yet to come up with. And this is basically true, though it is still a legend and can be built upon later. It's not Ashan by the way.)
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guarder
Supreme Hero
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posted November 07, 2007 05:51 PM |
bonus applied. |
Edited by guarder at 09:10, 13 Jan 2008.
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okay, i begin now:
Masterpost for:
Costum faction nr.2
Tower
Aka:the Ogres, The mountian people
Associated colors: Scarlet, Silver and Grey
Worship: Serina, The Scarlet Serpent. The God of blood and honor
Elemental: Earth and Shadow
Core philosophy: When all mountains belong to us, no one of us is not being feared
Motto: Always worth a try
Country/Kingdom: Hargarran
Captitol: Tyndahl, the tower of the high lords.
Key symbols: the Scarlet Serpent
Alignement: Neutral
Hero type: Battle Lord(may be changed to Warlord
attack: 30% def:30% Spell power:20% Knowledge: 20%
Riding on a Armored Muskox
Racial Skill: Surviving instinct. The creatures gain extra strength each round. Basic: 1 per second round to attack, defense and initiative.
Advanced: 2 per second round to attack, defense and initiative.
Expert: 3 per second round to attack and defense and initiative.
Ultimate(if included): 3 per round to attack, defense, hit points, and initiative.
(the racial skill is a way overpowered, but Harggaranish creatures is generally weak. so after a 4-6 rounds they is as good as normal creatures. behemoths and some other creatures have superior abilities, but low stats, but that doesn't make them the weakest creatures)
Storyline:
A long time ago, the Troglodytes ruled the mountain of Hargarran But when the Ogres came, they driven away the Troglodytes. But the Troglodytes didn't escape, they dug tunnels deep int the mountain. Later some some giant bird called Roc,came to their nests. And the Ogres went to war against those giant birds. After a hard fight, the Ogres and Rocs allied.
Some 100 years later the Troglodytes came up again, and called for help. They have waked the feared beasts at the bottom of the mountains. All three types fighted together, but with no wins. When the hope was out, a great Warrior of the humans came, with a great army of humans. They fighted away those beasts called behemoths and later they allied with them. When the ogres heard that they was going to kill all of them, but the greatest roc stopped him. a little bit after, the humans came back and all habitants of the mountains was in one alliance called: The Great Mountain Alliance. Thet soon builded their castles called Tower. Those great towers was a great place for warriors, but not so great for mages.
The first high Lord of Hargarran; Welon Motragus was the great human warrior. He is the king and his right hand is Graahd, the ogre. At his last year a contest was hold by the lords. three months of Battle. You was not allowed to kill anyone of the lords. The first one to crush the other ten lords won the rights to the throne after the High Lord. But this time, the story was not the normal plain contest:
After the Death on the first High Lord, it was time for the contest, but it was onlt nine lords. A little tribe of Goblins had escaped from the War and set sail over the sea. After weeks, they come to land, a desert, a big desert. They follow the road, until they came to a border gate. They weren't allowed to pass so they just waited to find out what to do now. After several hours, some Phoenixes led by a terrble master called the Phoenix master went to attack. They killed the border guards and went longer into Hargarran. The Goblins where quick high into the mountains, and where soon met by some ogres and peoples. They tale the goblins with them and made the wisest of the goblins to a Lord, but to win he must deafeat the other lords and kill the phoenix master. He extabilised a base that he called Cythalon. Soon the phoenixes cam deeper into Hargarran through the only Vulcano in Hargarran, under Cythalon. Masraizh(the goblin lord) built an altar and praid to the Scarlet Serpent. She answered him and gave him a sword, a spellbook and a staff. The phoenixes hd grown to a major treath. Masraizh united all the lords and fight back on the phoenixes. Only the Phoenix master was living, and he struck at Masraizh with all his powers and killed Masraizh. But the Scarlet serpents had other plan in her minds, she resseructed the Goblin mage and with her powers, Masraizh killed the Phoenix master. Since then Masraizh was the servant of the Scarlet Serpent, but in his deathbed, he gave this mighty ability(the servant of the scarlet serpent) to the killer of a demon agenda. He must be a high lord and a pretty good fighter. After death, he got the place as Serinas judge. He judges now living and dead.
After many centuriies, the time come to Deflonatus Blakkboon to win. He is the High Lord now. But soon he would die and The Ogre captain Mofarhsa is not very young longer. He is actualy the oldest ogre that have lived.
The Lords are: 1. Lodraasi Motrand, A fool, but a honest fool. 2. Bantordi Waldesh, So selfish that he actualy sacrificed his best mate to get save his own life. 3. Fodri Masturdi, does everything to win, expect cheating 4. Juuks Paave, does everything to win, cheating too. 5. Eltardon Hasneal, Can be looked on as Very agressive tempered, but a great leader. 6. Burdonid Gurgah, the strongest of them all, but with smallest brain. 7. Harwar Omputuer, The weakest Half-ogre aver lived, but he is the smartest 8. Dorndla Waaswulf , the only woman in the contest. She Is famous for her wolf taming. 9. Turldasnah Wadlo, Have lost a leg during a war, but made a new one of wood. Have eaten a whole tree.
10. Kordani Pyrtalog, he is the only Ogre. Eating his enemies after killing them.
You play as Eltardon Hasneal. After beating every lord expect Juuks Paave, you don't find him. Becouse of this you go to Tyndahl to get the title from the high lord, but Juuks Paave has already killed him and the Mofarsha. So he escaped through the portal and Eltardon is the new high king. He take his Ogre and make him to the new ogre lord, his right hand and give him the name Grafaad
The creatures are:
1. Troglodytes-Infernal Troglodytes=Normal
Alternative:Ancient Troglodyte
Trog Dwelling: Warren
Infernal trog/Ancient Trog Dwelling: Warren of the Scarlet Serpent
Trog: Cost 53 gold, Special Ability: Immune to Blind
Infernal trog: cost 68 gold, Special ability: Immune to Blind
Ancient Trog: Cost 68 gold, Special Abilities: Immune to Blind, Spear of Curses
Growth:14/21/28/Mushroom garden=7/Grail=7
Trog bio: From the deepest of the tunnels of Hargarran, the troglodytes have lived since the creation of the world. They are now a part of the Mountain alliances.
Dwelling wellings:
Warren: a wooden stone tipe building.
Warren of the Scarlet Serpent: the same only with a statue of two snakes from each side.(Lord Evil Made it)
Stats:
1. Troglodytes - Infernal Troglodytes | Ancient Troglodyte
Attack: 3 - 4 | 3
Defense: 1 - 1 | 2
Damage: 1-3 | 1-4 | 1-3
Speed: 5 - 5 | 5
Initiative: 9 - 9 | 10
Hit Points: 3 - 3 | 3
Shots: 0 - 0 | 0
Mana: 0 - 0 | 0
Cost: 45 - 60 | 60
2. Axe Thrower-Axe Master=Ranged
Alternative: Giant Axe Bearer
Axe Thrower dwelling: Outpost
Axe Master/Giant Axe Bearer Dwelling: Bastion
Axe Thrower: Cost 120 gold, Special abilities: Ranged, Enraged
Axe Master: Cost 148 gold, Special abilities: Ranged, Enraged
Giant Axe Bearer: Cost 148 gold, Special abilities: Cleave, Hard Hit, Enraged
Growth:10/15/20/Grail=25
Dwelling:
Outpost: training camp
Bastion: a stone tower with chains
Stats: Axe Thrower - Axe Master | Giant Axe Bearer
Attack: 3 - 3 | 6
Defense: 4 - 4 | 2
Damage: 2-5 - 2-5 | 2-6
Speed: 4 - 4 | 6
Initiative: 10 - 12 | 9
Hit Points: 10 - 13 | 10
Shots: 8 - 8 | 0
Mana: 0 - 0 | 0
Cost: 150 - 200 | 200
3. Guru-Snake Tamer. Type=Attack before you're attacked
Alternative: Carpet Rider
Guru Dwelling: Temple
Snake tamer/Carpet Rider dwelling: Temple of the Scarlet Serpent
Guru:
Snake Tamer:
Carpet Rider:
Dwelling: it looks like a pyramid on the adventure map in H5 only with two big torches and it looks from inside like the ruin of the jedi in star wars.
Temple of the Scarlet Serpent: the same only with a snake statue on the top.
Stats: Guru - Snake Tamer - Carpet Rider
Attack: 5 - 8 | 6
Defense: 2 - 3 | 2
Damage: 2-6 | 2-8 | 2-7
Speed: 7 - 8 | 7
Initiative: 14 - 15 | 14
Hit Points: 14 - 16 | 16
Shots: 0 - 0 | 0
Mana: 7 - 0 | 7
Cost: 350 - 400 | 400
4. Ogre-Ogre Mage- Type=Main army of Hargarran
Alternative: Ogre Berserker
Ogre Dwellling: Ogre Fort
Ogre Mage/Ogre Berserker Dwelling: Ogre Castle
Ogre:
Ogre mage:
Ogre berserker:
Dwelling: Ogre Fort: a stone tower sorounded by a wooden wall.
Ogre Castle: five stone towers sorounded by a strong stone wall.
Stats: Ogre - Ogre Mage | Ogre Berserker
Attack: 13 - 11 - 15
Defense: 7 - 7 | 7
Damage: 6 - 11 | 6-12 | 6-12
Speed: 5 - 5 | 6
Initiative: 8 - 8 | 8
Hit Points: 31 - 31 | 35
Shots: 0 - 0 | 0
Mana: 0 - 18 | 0
Cost: 450 - 600 | 600
5. Crusher-Black Lord. Type=Tank
Alternative: Punisher
Crusher Dwelling: Earth Guild
Black Lord/Punisher Dwelling: Shadow Guild
Crusher:
Black Lord:
Punisher:
Dwelling: Earth Guild: A little Tower in top of the main tower, going deep into the main tower
Shadow Guild: Same, but the tower is higher and more black
Stats: Crusher - Black Lord | Punisher
Attack: 9 - 9 | 12
Defense: 15 - 17 | 14
Damage: 11-13 - 13-15 | 13-15
Speed: 6 - 6 | 6
Initiative: 8 - 9 | 8
Hit Points: 78 - 87 | 80
Shots: 0 - 0 | 0
Mana: 0 - 0 | 0
Cost: 750 - 900 | 900
6. Roc-Thunderbird. Type=Fast Flier
Alternative: Firebird
Roc Dwelling: Cliff Nest
Thunderbird/Firebird Dwelling: Mountain Nest
Roc:
Thunderbird:
Firebird:
Dwelling: Cliff Nest: like in H3
Mountain Nest: on the spiky mountain there is gigantic nest, and on the spiky mountain the are skeletons.
Stats: Roc - Thunderbird | Firebird
Attack: 21 - 21 | 26
Defense: 14 - 14 | 14
Damage: 17-23 | 17-23 | 20-25
Speed: 7 - 8 | 7
Initiative: 12 - 15 | 11
Hit Points: 77 - 77 | 87
Shots: 0 - 0 | 0
Mana: 0 - 0 | 0
Cost: 1450 - 1800 | 1800
7. Behemoth-Ancient Behemoth. Type=Powerhouse
Alternative: Gargantuan
Behemoth Dwelling: Behemoth Tower
Ancient Behemoth/Gargantuan Dwelling: Behemoth Citadel
Dwelling: Behemoth Tower: Agreta tower build from a side of the main tower
Stats: Behemoth - Ancient Behemoth | Gargantuan
Attack: 28 - 31 - 29
Defense: 28 - 31 | 33
Damage: 31-61 | 31-71 | 35-67
Speed: 6 - 6 | 6
Initiative: 10 - 10 | 9
Hit Points: 185 - 215 | 235
Shots: 0 - 0 | 0
Mana: 0 - 0 | 0
Cost: 2500+1 crystal - 3700+2 crystals | 3700+2 crystals
Special Abilities: Spear of Curses=Some of the Troglodytes dug very deep into the mountains, and they found a gigantic green crystal. They broke the crystal and used it on their spears. It has 50% to cast a random lv.1 or lv.2 curse on the enemy it attacks.
Hard hit: 20% to Stun the enemy for 3 turns doing damage every turn. It multiplies by 2 every round. Can be cured by: every curing ablities/spells
Special Buildings:
Beacon of Hargarran (Grail): Can hire as many creatures as it are room for in the army under a siege from dwellings and other towns. You must pay for them and it takes as many rounds as it is days from it with a hero(caravan if included)ex: the town are 3 days away, it will take 3 rounds before the extra troops will appear. +5000gold daily incom and plus 50%growth.
Spire of the High Lord: increases roc/thunderrbird/firebird growth by 2. 5 wood, 10 ore, 5 crystals and 3000 gold
Thieves Guild: Works like Thieves guild on adventure map.
10 wood, 10 ore and 2000 gold
Mercanary tavern: upgrade to tavern that gives +1 attack to all heroes hired from that tavern once.
5 wood, 5 ore, 2 mercury, 2 crystals, 2 sulfur, 2 gems and 1000 gold
Mushroom garden: gives 7 extra trogs every week.
15 ore and 500 gold
Tunnel gate: Gives 1 extra stat per round to all mountain creatures to Surviving instinct(Racial skill)
5 wood, 5 crystals and 2000 gold
Well of Secrets: you get +3 Trogs, +2 Axe thrower, +2 Gurus, +1 Ogre, +1 Crusher, 0.5 Roc(you will get one rec every second week), + 0.33 Behemoths(you get one behemoth every third week)
10 wood, 10ore 5 mercury, 5 crystals, 5 sulfur, 5 gems and 5000 gold
Heroes:
Eltardon Hasneal:
Starting skill: Tactics with all recuirements
Special skill: Aggressive tactics: All enraged(?) mountain creatures get better for every stack that is attacked and +1 to the row of tactics
Bio: His parents was trapped in a swamp nine months after the born of Eltardon. They was kidnapped by the demons and was given to the necromancers. They escaped in the last moment and tried to escape back to Mirgade. They come so far as to Gargarran where a ship was waiting, but died of poison. Eltardon was found by a man and an Ogre. They took Eltardon back to Tyndahl. After 20 years Eltardon was given the title as a Lord and began to fight for the place for the throne after Deflonatus Blakkboon. He and Graahd was the human and Ogre that found Eltardon. They called him Eltardon Hasneal, becouse it was translated as Great Warrior in Troglodyte language. He was the youngest human ever to kill a behemoth in the age of 15, with a dagger and a sword.
Music: the same as Biara(hammers of fate)http://www.mediafire.com/?3rjnlydh1xz,But it will be as fast and light as the 12 first seconds the whole way, not slow, like after 0.12
Grafaad:
Starting Skill: Unknown
Special Skill: Enraged Ogre: All Mountain creatures get the enraged skill.
Bio: He rosed through the ranks and he end up as Eltardon's right hand. After Juuks killed Graahd Eltardon as the new High Lord titled Grafaad the Ogre Chieftain, the right hand of the High Lord and all ogres follow him, even what the high lord says
Juuks Paave:
Starting skill: Sorcery
Special skill: Cheater: have 10% chance to regenerate 75% of all mana and all spell cost is redused by 25%.
Bio:
At young age, he was best friends with Eltardon. Eltardon actualy saved his life once. But after the saw the power of magic, began to cheat in everything and said he was the best in almos everything many began to hate him. Even Eltardon was not liking him much anymore. He even betrayed Eltardon and runned away when they was attacked by a rampaging behemoth. Eltardon akmost died, but killed the mighty Behemoth at the age of 15. He was the youngest person to ever kill a behemoth. Seven years have passed and Juuks is to cheat his way to the throne, cost what it cost will.
Normal heroes(they are used as lords, but with different name):
Saranda:
Starting skill:Skills will be put on when we know the (main)skills
Special skill: Troglodyte priest: You will get one random resource every day plus one trog every day. The trog will be upgraded if you have any upgraded in your army. If you have both, the trog will join a randome side.
Bio:Found by the troglodytes in the age of 19, she remember nothing about her life. But she have now decided to be a, and the only Troglodyte priest.
Thanks to Lord Evil for some building description and GenieLord for the stats. Good work
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 07, 2007 05:52 PM |
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What do you mean with existing factions?
I could do creatures + maybe stats etc if i know the lore/history and the average stats for all HoMM6 creatures.
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted November 07, 2007 06:00 PM |
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Quote:
What do you mean with existing factions?
I could do creatures + maybe stats etc if i know the lore/history and the average stats for all HoMM6 creatures.
Editing existing factions means fitting part of the HOMM5 factions to HOMM6. But please, try not to copy from your own HOMM6 project. We do things together here. We start from the beginning.
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guarder
Supreme Hero
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posted November 07, 2007 06:07 PM |
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You have probably not seen thisQuote:
put me on 10 too. and maybe 13, but i can't make portraits, only ideas like old pics or something like that
Does anyone not liking this idea so give tips how i change it, so it be cooler
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted November 07, 2007 06:09 PM |
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GL, can i do 5 and 11, they sought of go together.
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted November 07, 2007 06:11 PM |
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@Guarder: Added you to parts 10 and 13.
@Bixie: Added you to parts 5 and 11.
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radox
Known Hero
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posted November 07, 2007 06:20 PM |
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Count me in for the SPELL SYSTEM
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 07, 2007 08:00 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 22:04, 07 Nov 2007.
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No of course i wont copy my own HoMM6, it would be really boring to copy does creatures and i didnt really like them either.
So you can put me on 21.
But before i begin i need some history, some lore so i know which creatures that should be added etc.
I think Haven should be a balanced town like it always have been.
With one caster and two shootes, 2 flyers and a fast large ground creature.
Do we include alternate upgrades?
Because i thougt that the upgrades would be more of a crusade/empire type and the alternate upgrades more peaceful and almost "elvish".
Or the other way around.
And what towns are going to be in?
Should we include Fortress and the Dark Elven Dungeon (or some mix with dark elfs and ancient cave creatures) ??
edit: I have thougt of a haven (will it be called Haven? If not, maybe Palace, Stronghold, Sanctuary or just Castle) creature line-up, of course its not final and we will need to see what people want to change etc.
I will post it tomorrow (school... i hate school).
Its very similar to the Heroes 3 creature line-up as griffins are tier 3 creature again.
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sith_of_ziost
Promising
Supreme Hero
Scouting the Multiverse
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posted November 07, 2007 09:56 PM |
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If you could, explain part 16. If it is what I think it is, then I'll take it.
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Steel Yourself for War
Next Set: Mirrodin
Beseiged
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Legendary_hero
Known Hero
Stronghold Warchief
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posted November 07, 2007 11:14 PM |
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Quote:
If you could, explain part 16. If it is what I think it is, then I'll take it.
Yeah the Descriptions about the Towns,Each town has it's unique minor bonus,you know +1 to 4 tier,+250 gold per day and etc. i think that's it or not 
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sith_of_ziost
Promising
Supreme Hero
Scouting the Multiverse
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posted November 07, 2007 11:34 PM |
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That is what I thought if its correct. If its what I thought was not what I thought then I think I'll still do it. I think I'll sign up for Number 16.
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted November 08, 2007 03:06 AM |
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How come I wasn't involved? Sad now...
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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roy-algriffin
Supreme Hero
Chocolate ice cream zealot
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posted November 08, 2007 03:09 AM |
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more then one person can work on something.
I expect you can pick something and if you do it better then the other guy or girl you get your idea implemented i suppose.But its best if you work together.
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"Am i a demon? No im a priest of the light! THE BLOODY RED LIGHT"
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texasaggie
Hired Hero
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posted November 08, 2007 03:47 AM |
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i would like to help with something anything if i can i havn't been able to get to posting much ideas here yet as i have been working on new AOw ideas in case there is another but id love to contribute
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted November 08, 2007 03:50 AM |
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I'd prefer an assignment, otherwise I'd be liable to post WAY too much.
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted November 08, 2007 06:44 AM |
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Quote:
If you could, explain part 16. If it is what I think it is, then I'll take it.
Describe new town views, mainly for the new facions. It means to give descriptions how do the towns look like in your vision? Give us ideas for them or even design them.
Edit:
We have to decide if we keep the Alternative upgrades or not.
I say we should keep them. If many people really don't want to the alternative upgrades, we won't use them.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Cepheus please start writing the world backgrand and some basic history, so we'll be able to write each facions' history.
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guarder
Supreme Hero
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posted November 08, 2007 04:56 PM |
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Edited by guarder at 07:12, 15 Nov 2007.
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I vote for alternatives. And it think faction nr.two's background will not be very much affected by the history
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Ted
Promising
Supreme Hero
Peanut Exterminator
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posted November 08, 2007 05:43 PM |
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Edited by Ted at 17:46, 08 Nov 2007.
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i think this is going to be a good project, only i have one problem
bixie is doing Lore for new faction 3 and Racial for new faction 3, and i get creatures, that wouldn't be too bad but....
BIXIE PLEASE READ THIS
a am also going to check with the other guys (new factions 1 and 2) to check i don't make a star wars faction and they do the same (don't worry i won't;P)
offtopic
hey i just noticed, alcs now mod of the alter, congrats!
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Visit my Site!
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted November 08, 2007 05:45 PM |
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Quote:
Cepheus please start writing the world backgrand and some basic history, so we'll be able to write each facions' history.
Well I added something at the top of page two. As for the factions, go ahead and make the lineups, and I can fold the story around them.
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This thread is pages long: 
