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| Thread: The 8 skills of a hero |  This thread is pages long: 1 ... 6 7 8 9 10 ... 20 30 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted May 20, 2005 01:26 AM |
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lol.. thats funny.
When i type a bad word i get a penalty.
When someone else does it... spankelito edits their posts?
yeah.. thank you allmighty spankelito, your such a brilliant moderator 
oh and btw.. anyone(read: spankelito) can pick up wins if they play easy opposition but that doesnt make you a good player.
If you are a good player you must be able to prove yourself against good opponents. And stop preaching for watermagic lol.
See this is what happens when a n00b preaches to other n00bs.. they believe him.
Why does a library moderator teach out worthless tactics?
water magic is a waste usually except teleport&clone and sometimes prayer, especially if your motivation is dispel or "bless is better then offense" lol.
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matkov
Hired Hero
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posted May 20, 2005 09:22 AM |
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Edited By: matkov on 20 May 2005
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Call me newb, call me whatever you like Sir_Stiven, but I agree with Angelito that water magic is good and with DD and fly forbidden it is even better. I personally don't like air so much. And btw. noone mentioned force field here. I personally think that PvP online is not everything. I participated at tournaments where you play for score and air is not that good as water (because fly/DD is also took out of those maps). And when you try to win medium map with 4 computer opponents and underground within 13 days on 200% to achieve biggest score you have very hard work to do trust me. So I think that playing against computer CAN be really challenging.
and here are my favourite skills for main hero:
1. earth magic
2. logistics
3. tactics
4. offence
5. armorer
6. water magic
7. wisdom
8. archery
Have a nice day.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted May 20, 2005 10:58 AM |
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yeah.. thank you allmighty spankelito, your such a brilliant moderator
Youīre very welcome 
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oh and btw.. anyone(read: spankelito) can pick up wins if they play easy opposition but that doesnt make you a good player.
Who decides which opposition is easy? You?...lmaooo..
Mr."Sorry, canīt play more today, i have a headache because of too much thinking in that tactical map with only level 1 spells". Yeah...that really sounds like a vet....Maretti is a very good player, i played some tactical maps with him as well. But i had no problem to play 3 games on that map with him, even when i lost the second one..
And in our only 1on1 game, i won (with luck probably coz of better starting area, canīt say it anymore....)
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If you are a good player you must be able to prove yourself against good opponents. And stop preaching for watermagic lol.
And that comes from someone like you??? Where is your prove?..lol.
I played against Frank, lost, but it was a close game in my eyes. I played Art, GvB, Ironwill....if u think they are all noobs and loosers, feel free to tell them...
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water magic is a waste usually except teleport&clone and sometimes prayer,....
Lol...except (put THREE water spells here).
Even your exception has 3 good spells while you can bring only one good for air....funny to read
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especially if your motivation is dispel or "bless is better then offense" lol.
OK, seems u were away from school when they teached the maths basics, but nevermind, i will help you a bit
Example:
HarpyHag has damage ratio 1-4, a/d 6/6
Hobgoblin has damage ratio 1-2 a/d 5/3
To make the math easier to understand, we set the attackers hero attack skill the same as the defenders defense skill, so no bonus from here.
100 Harpyhags attack 150 Hobgoblins.
Damage calculation:
100-400 basic damage, +15% bonus coz of a/d difference, +30% offense. Result: 145-585 damage dealed, means 29-117 hobgoblins died
Now the same with bless: (maximum damage +1)
500 basic damage, 15% bonus coz of a/d difference.
Result: 575 damage, means 115 hobgoblins died!
So if your "offense hero" has a bit of bad luck, the "bless" hero will deal four times the damage! (145 to 575!)
And with expert bless, this doesnīt only count for Harpyhags (in that case), but for all troops except black dragons
Make the same damage calculation for tower troops, where u have 3 shooters which are NOT affected by offense, but very well by bless.
Mastergremlins: ratio 1-2
Archmagi: ratio 7-9
Titans: ratio 40-60 (!)
So u still want to tell me, mass bless is a waste of spell?
OK...Heroes 4 is looking for more players...have fun
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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patriot_pulsar
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 20, 2005 03:08 PM |
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Sorry for bad word i said i was just annoed and i really seems to hate u stiven
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Once i believe i can make impossible happen and i will beat angelito
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted May 20, 2005 04:42 PM |
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Youīre very welcome
No problem, i thought getting on your good side would mean you actually listen one time aswell.. seems i was wrong though
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Who decides which opposition is easy? You?...lmaooo..
Mr."Sorry, canīt play more today, i have a headache because of too much thinking in that tactical map with only level 1 spells". Yeah...that really sounds like a vet....Maretti is a very good player, i played some tactical maps with him as well. But i had no problem to play 3 games on that map with him, even when i lost the second one..
And in our only 1on1 game, i won (with luck probably coz of better starting area, canīt say it anymore....)
Well those lvl 1 spells are the ones we are discussing now n00belito.
You are really funny.. first you try and judge my skills due to the fact that i have few TOH games. then on the fact that i dont wanna play another game when its 1AM here and ive just had a TC battle? You might not noticed this (mr. "now i will dispel all your haste" )
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And that comes from someone like you??? Where is your prove?..lol.
I played against Frank, lost, but it was a close game in my eyes. I played Art, GvB, Ironwill....if u think they are all noobs and loosers, feel free to tell them...
My TOH record has wins against, frank and wanderer. Ive killed jinxer in our only game and so on.. ive beaten gandalf&allie in an allied game with ameoba. Ive killed Irn will in our only game hardly losing a unit thnx too berserk
And well, GvB is a mackem scum and Irnwill.. hehe just ask them what i usually tell em
Thing is, the players you say you are good enough to play. Are players i havent lost too. What does that tell you?
As for frank.. i would have slaughterd him in our last allied game if my allie hadnt had to go (you can see save, even you should be experienced enough to see that mr. "ima cure ALL my slowed units" ). We were maybe 4-5 days from each other and that would have been 15-20 arch angels for me. week 4.
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Lol...except (put THREE water spells here).
Even your exception has 3 good spells while you can bring only one good for air....funny to read
sigh... this is like trying to explain to a n00b why you dont take experience from chests.
How often do you get those spells? how often do you even build up a mage guild in 3-4 weeks that high in a random? That would leave your options to scrolls and boxes. Whereas scrolls lvl 4+ are often banned.
Save yourself your "logic" and try to learn something instead. "All" these 3 spells are great.. but you dont expect to get them, haste you count on. If you fail it in one lvl 1 mage guild you make in 2nd town.. if you already havent gotten it from shrine/scroll.
You can do your own statistic math on that one about the probability to get it. Then your statistics would actually turn out useful...
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OK, seems u were away from school when they teached the maths basics, but nevermind, i will help you a bit
...yada yada yada...
even more n00b talk
.. some statistics that doesnt make sense anyway...
yada yada yada
heroes IV.
Let me try and explain this to you in a very simple manner.
You are up against say a stronghold town.
Gretchin has 30% offense from start.. no matter spells.
He uses his spell for a mass haste. He kills off most of your army among other things because his 30% offense bonus.
What use does mass bless do you then? you get some "wee now my 3 lvl 6 units left does sooo much more dmg.. just too bad i lost almost all of em already"
Point is..even if you use mass bless, your army can be slowed.. oppoent can haste his and youre one step behind anyway.
You talk like a n00b.
Dont you get it? people are laughing at this discussion of yours. It didnt take me long in zone yesterday to realise that.
You make a fool out of yourself. Only thing is im the only one who tells you this, andi refered to prayer as a game winning spell...which was the only credit he gave your discussion btw.
And it can be.. just as teleport and clone. But how often do you get em?? And is andi a crap player now aswell because he doesnt play anymore?
and your dispel/cure talk... its n00bish. It doesnt make sense one bit.
You just mess up n00bs minds with weird statistics.. well, a mass blessed gretchin doesnt reach his enemy at all if his opponent has exp. tactics or gretchin doesnt have it. Then what you got? a mass blessed orc that deals you much much much better dmg? lol
Meanwhile your opponent can arrange his units and prepare for the attack, which will take place without any strategy as you lose the biggest advantage of em all.. the fact that you can attack with all units before opponent gets to move again.
lol.. you brag about your opponents... but i can understand thats all you can brag about because these tactics of yours are simply crap.
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patriot_pulsar
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 20, 2005 04:56 PM |
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stiven just for u: n00b=new to online gaming
and dont forget even that u vet it does not mean rthat everyone who not so good as u are noobs there is an avarage players as well
but there is a quetion if u almost always getting earth why do u need air magic only for haste??
And prayer btw add u speed as well But u so good u knew that just didnt wanted to mention right?
and in fight against 20 behemots or dragons for example if u have slow why do u need haste??:S to make AA faster go ehead mybe they will fly away faster after behemots will leave them with 10hp
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Once i believe i can make impossible happen and i will beat angelito
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LordLazy
Promising
Famous Hero
Wood cleaner
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posted May 20, 2005 05:43 PM |
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Quote:
why do u need air magic only for haste??
And prayer btw add u speed as well But u so good u knew that just didnt wanted to mention right?
and in fight against 20 behemots or dragons for example if u have slow why do u need haste??:S to make AA faster go ehead mybe they will fly away faster after behemots will leave them with 10hp
I will explain to you why air magic is better than earth magic in main battle:
Imagine a random balance game, you have castle/tyris, I have stronghold crag
week4 day4 we meet, Crag have exp air, exp tact, exp armor, exp off. Tyris, exp tact, exp earth (unlikely, prolly something useless like eagle eye ) exp offense maybe armor, unlikeely again.
so, your castle got 5 AAs, 14 champs, 15 zealots 28 crusaders, my army is 9 Ancient behemoths, 30 Thunderbirds, 100 wolf raiders and 150 hobgoblins or something.
no tactics skill for anyone, so AAs turn, what will you do? expert slow? probably not, so you wait, I got 1 single wolf and thunderbird for retal, exp haste and kill AAs with Ancients, all gone, attack crusaders with thunderbirds, all gone, attack champions with wolfs, all gone. So now, its your turn again, you got zealots, marksmen, halberdiers and some griff left, I have 9 Ancient behemoths, 29 thunderbirds, 99 wolf raiders and even 150 hobgoblins left. Tell me, how could expert slow win me this fight this way?
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted May 20, 2005 06:25 PM |
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Nice theory LordLazy, and in that case, for sure the fight will be over.
Some things are interesting though:
1. You have built behemots in week 1, so u were lucky to find a level7 dwelling to get 9 Ancients week 4?
What if it is the other way around? Castle has 9 Archangels (cons or dwell) and u only have 5 Ancients, coz u meet in week3? Why you have 30 thunderbirds instead of 21? Why u have 100 wolfraiders instead of 63 and so on.....Just keep it a bit more balanced, then itīs easier to disuss..
2. Why do you all chose stronghold as example when it comes to the comparsion between air/water/earth?
I know pretty well, stronghold is an offense town, and barbarians canīt get water from normal level up, so air magic is an alternative choice for them. But what about fortress? Itīs a slow town, so with high defense rating, expert shield or stonskin will fit very well...
3. Why do u always get CragHack as main when playing stronghold? Are u really that lucky?
4. The game has 2 parts, one part is against the map / comp, the other against the opponent. In your case, expert haste is the match winner, coz it also doesnīt matter what u will loose after first attack, game is over after that fight. But letīs imagine the guards between your and your opponents area are hordes of efreet sultans. What will help more, expert slow or expert haste? You will probably loose 1/3 of your week 3 army when fighting them without expert slow. So u will still have your expert haste advantage in endfight, but your army canīt compare with opponents army in endfight.
Just an example though....like yours..
Still my opinion:
Attacking towntype = air magic
Defending towntype = water magic
And for the fact i play mostly fortress and rarely stronghold, my choice is obvious
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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LordLazy
Promising
Famous Hero
Wood cleaner
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posted May 20, 2005 06:35 PM |
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Nice theory LordLazy, and in that case, for sure the fight will be over.
Some things are interesting though:
1. You have built behemots in week 1, so u were lucky to find a level7 dwelling to get 9 Ancients week 4?
What if it is the other way around? Castle has 9 Archangels (cons or dwell) and u only have 5 Ancients, coz u meet in week3? Why you have 30 thunderbirds instead of 21? Why u have 100 wolfraiders instead of 63 and so on.....Just keep it a bit more balanced, then itīs easier to disuss..
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This example of mine is actually 100% accurate. try out stronghold on balance and you will see this can of course be done with equal armies as well, but then castle castle example would be better dont you think? and when I play stronghold castle, the people look at me as easy win, so I pick crag and the opponent doesnt care hehe
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4. The game has 2 parts, one part is against the map / comp, the other against the opponent. In your case, expert haste is the match winner, coz it also doesnīt matter what u will loose after first attack, game is over after that fight. But letīs imagine the guards between your and your opponents area are hordes of efreet sultans. What will help more, expert slow or expert haste? You will probably loose 1/3 of your week 3 army when fighting them without expert slow. So u will still have your expert haste advantage in endfight, but your army canīt compare with opponents army in endfight.
Just an example though....like yours..
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You wont find horde efreet sultans on balance thats where my example is, so on such templates, you need to get slow, but then again, main fight may happen later, and you will have both, but on balance, you dont need exp slow at all, not even against the map when you play stronghold
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lkru33
Promising
Famous Hero
3x NFL Pick'em Champ
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posted May 20, 2005 06:41 PM |
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I think I see where the extra troops are coming from. Typically when playing random games, my opponents and I usually agree on no double build rule. I see this with alot of players on the zone as well. The 1 game I did happen to play where double build was allowed, I played Maretti and he did have Stronghold... and he did have Hack  (see toh profile under maretti for strategy I got wiped out with). In week 4, he came into my land with 10 Ancient Behemoths and wiped me out with mass haste. I guess it all depends on the type of Castle you are playing and how your troops match up vs. opponents in endfight. I know I would not want to cast mass haste and attack those Ancients with the troops I had. Maybe expert berzerk would have helped? Then again, maybe not.
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Plexus22
Known Hero
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posted May 27, 2005 10:03 PM |
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This whole argument is ridiculous
Every magic school has its benefits and disadvantages. Every magic school has some great spells that are ideal in certain situations and then also some not so great spells. All these specific examples with exact castle and troop count and specific heroe against other specific heroe whith specific magic school at specific skill level is funny to say the least
For example yes mass haste is great in the scenario LL explained but what if opponent has expert berzerk and Berzerk half of stronghold army (getting all the fastest units in spell effect area) and Behemoths pretty much wipe out entire stack of their own army.
Or what if opponent clone archangels and then do a double archangel hit on Behemoths prctically wiping them out before they even move. Yes archangels would prolly get wiped out too but it would even the playing field.
If we want to get so specific about proving one magic school over another I could probly find a scenario that would make "remove obstacle" look good!
Every magic school has spells that are critical depending on the situation. Sometimes mass haste is better than mass slow but sometimes its the other way around. The famous resurrect seems to be generally the most desired high level spell amongst heroes fans but honestly Iv had some scenarios where a simple blind served me far better than resurrect could. It all depends on circumstance.
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tzutzy
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 18, 2005 04:30 AM |
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skills
My preferred skills (and yes, I do suck cause I'm a beginner). In no particular order (although I seem to want offense and armorer sooner):
- Offense
- Armorer
- Archery (if town has good shooters)
- Wisdom. Though if big battle happens week 3, don't think it would help a lot. Or it could be that you get high level spells that are not that great. (Magic mirror - I don't like it).
- 2 magic schools (from earth/water/air). Don't really use fire a lot, I guess cause it's something I haven't received often enough.
- Logistics... I didn't really understand the importance of it until I've started reading the threads.
- last one: either Resistance/Diplomacy/Intelligence/Tactics/Learning
Resistance is good sometimes, against mass offensive, or single powerful spells.
I get it that Diplomacy is banned? Because otherwise hero might get advantage from joining monsters, especially helping rush strategies? Not sure here.
Intelligence is good where you haven't got a lot of places to refresh your mana, and you've got low knowledge. It could give spellcasters the option to focus on getting more power rather than knowledge.
Tactics. Now (and my thinking can be wrong), isn't it better to cast expert Haste (if available) than to have expert Tactics?
Why do poeople dislike learning? I thought the idea was to upgrade hero ASAP, so extra experience can only be good.
I don't think leadership is that important. If you've got castle and somehow don't have leadership (you're a cleric or other hero), you can still get +1 from archangels (if you get them before battle), +1 if you don't mix your troops and you can get the 3rd point from map places or artifacts.
Luck doesn't appeal to me as well, but I think they should've made bad luck a part of the game (chance to do half the damage). You can always have some luck with map locations and/or artifacts.
Artillery and Ballistics? Ballista is kind of useless without high attack, isn't it? If you've got good fliers then I guess catapult's role is not that important, and certainly no good if main battle is outside town.
Sorcerer - useful for spellcasters with high power, other than that... not a good one.
Scholar - if you really want to learn a spell that a new hero for hire has, other than that not very good to have.
Mysticism - not good.
I haven't heard a lot of people talking about mass Weakness. I think it's a good spell.
Back to lurk mode.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted October 18, 2005 10:55 AM |
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Quote:
- Offense
- Armorer
- Archery (if town has good shooters)
- Wisdom. Though if big battle happens week 3, don't think it would help a lot. Or it could be that you get high level spells that are not that great. (Magic mirror - I don't like it).
- 2 magic schools (from earth/water/air). Don't really use fire a lot, I guess cause it's something I haven't received often enough.
- Logistics... I didn't really understand the importance of it until I've started reading the threads.
Quite good choices so far. Wisdom refers , as u mentioned, to the map size in my eyes.
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- last one: either Resistance/Diplomacy/Intelligence/Tactics/Learning
Resistance is good sometimes, against mass offensive, or single powerful spells.
I get it that Diplomacy is banned? Because otherwise hero might get advantage from joining monsters, especially helping rush strategies? Not sure here.
Intelligence is good where you haven't got a lot of places to refresh your mana, and you've got low knowledge. It could give spellcasters the option to focus on getting more power rather than knowledge.
Tactics. Now (and my thinking can be wrong), isn't it better to cast expert Haste (if available) than to have expert Tactics?
Why do poeople dislike learning? I thought the idea was to upgrade hero ASAP, so extra experience can only be good.
Resistance can be very usefull in endfight, thatīs for sure.
Diplomacy is cool if both have it and gather troops like hell. If only 1 party has it, itīs just lame...
Intelligence is not important. There are other possibilities to double your spellpoints (mana vortex, magic well), and u normaly donīt need that many points anyway...
Tactics is one of the best skills of the game. Most of the time underestimated, especially by new online players. First of all, it helps pretty much when playing against the map. You can lure the enemy stack (which canīt reach your units and would normally wait on first turn!) in your range by just placing a single level 1 unit in their range. They will surely attack the single unit and are placed in YOUR range now (thinking of fighting against level 7 dwellings in week 1!!).
And the comparison about casting expert haste instead of tactics is not very accurate. The advantage of Tactics is not only the 6 steps your units could move forward, but the "arrangement" you can do before the fight (protect your shooters, place your strong units in the same row as opponents units, aso...).
And Learning really is a waste of a slot. Those 15% more exp. points donīt help u a lot. It may help in low level stats, like level 1-6 perhaps, but after that, itīs wasted. The bonus u get is just too small. They should have made the bonus 150% or 200%. This would be a better skill then..
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I don't think leadership is that important. If you've got castle and somehow don't have leadership (you're a cleric or other hero), you can still get +1 from archangels (if you get them before battle), +1 if you don't mix your troops and you can get the 3rd point from map places or artifacts.
This is true. Nevertheless, i get surprised from that skill every now and then. Sometimes, u get 5 times moral with your 7 units in ONE row, other times u get none in 2 rounds. If this skill would be more reliable, it would be soooo great.
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Luck doesn't appeal to me as well, but I think they should've made bad luck a part of the game (chance to do half the damage). You can always have some luck with map locations and/or artifacts.
Artillery and Ballistics? Ballista is kind of useless without high attack, isn't it? If you've got good fliers then I guess catapult's role is not that important, and certainly no good if main battle is outside town.
Luck is similar to leadership, if it would be more reliable (and the skill should count MORE than an artifact though!!), it would be a great skill.
Ballistics helps when u know u play a guy who likes to "castle-sit"!.. And with the ballistic skill, the chance u will have the first turn in a siege (when being the attacker) are much higher than having just speedy fliers....and having initiative in a fight is essential...
Artillery is great with high attack skill, but is also good with normal skills when fighting the map, especially in the beginning of the game.
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Back to lurk mode.
No need to, u make quite good posts for a "newbie". Keep it on!
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
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posted October 18, 2005 04:45 PM |
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Expert tactics also does 1 important thing when playing against stronghold or fortress which is: keping them away When both heroes' tactics skills are at expert, they cancel each other out, so those ancients, moomoos, or hydras will still need to travel across the field while getting shot at instead of being able to attack you right away. MUUHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
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tzutzy
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 19, 2005 01:51 AM |
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Quote:
This is true. Nevertheless, i get surprised from that skill every now and then. Sometimes, u get 5 times moral with your 7 units in ONE row, other times u get none in 2 rounds. If this skill would be more reliable, it would be soooo great.
I always feel kinda robbed when I've got +6 morale, but only the first 3 is counted, and even then, it's all about chance. I think they should've raised the percentages even more for both luck and morale, something like this:
Morale +4: 16% chance
Morale +5: 20% chance and so on...
Thanks for the replies. I appreciate it. I'll put more emphasis on tactics and test it more.
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Evil_Warrior
Famous Hero
Duke of Demon
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posted February 04, 2006 01:50 AM |
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The 5 skills the my main heroes MUST have :
Wisdom
Air Magic
Water Magic
Fire Magic
Earth Magic
The other three are just optional (one of them may be necromancy depens on the hero):
Leadership
Luck
Intelligence (or Ballistic)
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greek_god_su...
Famous Hero
Bringer Of Light
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posted February 04, 2006 05:12 PM |
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Oh yeah, add to that eagle eye and mysticism and you have a REAL magic hero!
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After all, marriage and murder are not too different - one ends your life and the other is a crime
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Ellpo
Tavern Dweller
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posted February 04, 2006 11:59 PM |
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1. Wisdom (D'oh)
2. Earth Magic (Town Portal, Implosion, Resurrection, Slow)
3. Air Magic (Haste, Fly)
4. Logistics
5. Pathfinding (I hate that f*****g swamp)
6. Archery (I use to play with the Wizards)
These are the ones I aim for. The rest may vary:
Sorcery, Intelligence, Learning, Tactics, Leadership (especially good if you want artifacts), Ballistics and Artillery.
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Evil_Warrior
Famous Hero
Duke of Demon
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posted February 05, 2006 12:17 AM |
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Oh yeah, add to that eagle eye and mysticism and you have a REAL magic hero!
Don't forget the Sorcery and Resistance!
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted February 05, 2006 12:44 AM |
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It's good to have tactics when your playing vs Stronghold or Fortress.
Lets see with Fortress, they wont be able to reach you in 1st round orless with haste & most likely your troops will be faster so you get to use the last spell.
So even if they use haste, you can easily knock it down or use another spell.
Most likely you will have mass haste or Mass Slow so even if they mass slow you or haste, you can use one of the them to counter.
Stronghold are more based on offense & Tactics is a good choice because any Stronghold player would love to have tactics for Stronghold because offensively you can do some major damage close up.
At least if you have tactics also they wont be ableto get in closer.
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