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Cepheus
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posted November 07, 2008 05:35 PM |
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You are both becoming increasingly hostile with each quote war. Since you're both quality posters and IMO quite nice people (usually), I think the two of you should know to stop this idiotic bickering before it gets really out of hand.
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TheDeath
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posted November 07, 2008 05:37 PM |
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Well anyway it's not like what I say truly matters in the end 
sorry for being "hostile", I'm not shouting or anything with bolding, I'm just tired of not getting my point across (Ash could say the same about me). So again sorry for that.
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Asheera
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posted November 07, 2008 05:38 PM |
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Edited by Asheera at 17:40, 07 Nov 2008.
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You know what? Stop posting here! You're repeating the same nonsense I replied a thousand times before!Quote:
You are not interested in improving the community, at least it's not a first priority. If you WERE then you would NOT CARE if someone got 500 QPs for nothing, simply because you KNOW that you are more constructive because, let's say, your threads are more interesting to people than the guy with 500 QPs' threads. Period. You know your stuff. You know you are helpful (more than the 500 QP-guy), in fact, you know just like in any other forum.
1) Why do you think I KNOW it's better? How could I know? By the amount of replies? That's subjective. The QP however, is something that says more things than this.
Now, you bring up the case that it's CLEAR that my post was better yet I didn't get a QP while the other 'inferior' one did. And you know what? If that were the case, don't you think it would be CLEAR that it's a discrimination which is a bad image for the Mods? That simply can't be true. You just can't think rationally.
2) If it's a discrimination, then I'm not respected and I am NOT interested in improving the community anymore.
But yeah, what I said here can be found in the above posts as well. So I don't even know why I'm posting here anymore. Go ahead, post another nonsense, put words in my mouth, that's the best you can do. That's why every 'debate' ends up in quote wars with you. I'm not going to respond to you, and you should do the same.
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TheDeath
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posted November 07, 2008 05:43 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 17:45, 07 Nov 2008.
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Quote:
You know what? Stop posting here! You're repeating the same nonsense I replied a thousand times before!
Because you do the same?
Quote:
1) Why do you think I KNOW it's better? How could I know? By the amount of replies? That's subjective. The QP however, is something that says more things than this.
If I were a mod, how would I know that your post deserves a QP? What if there's another mod that gives off easy QPs and discriminates you (apart from me)? How would I know? That would be subjective as well.
I disagree COMPLETELY on "the qp says more things than this". If that were the case, the 'old' QPs would mean they're better -- how do you know that those are exceptions because they were given easier? You're contradicting yourself!
BTW:Quote:
If it's a discrimination, then I'm not respected and I am NOT interested in improving the community anymore.
This ends it all. After all, why should you care about the people which discuss ideas and say "great work" and all that... only the ones which are able to give you a QP matter right? (mods, nominations, etc)
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TheDeath
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posted November 07, 2008 05:50 PM |
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Ok ignore my previous post if you want. I want to clarify it like this:
Do people that say "great work" matter at all? Or do they only matter if they nominate you (or give you a QP if they're mods)? Please answer this question.
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Asheera
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posted November 07, 2008 05:51 PM |
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Ok finally you used a different approach  So I guess I'll reply to this:Quote:
This ends it all. After all, why should you care about the people which discuss ideas and say "great work" and all that... only the ones which are able to give you a QP matter right? (mods, nominations, etc)
You know, it's not the QP effect, but if my posts were really "great work" and I was respected than I would at least get nominations. So it's not just the Mods' opinions that count. But if I don't get any nominations either then it's clear my post was either not very good and I lost a lot of time making it, or I'm not respected and discriminated.
If there was a 'technical' difficulty about giving my post a QP and someone brought this up, then I wouldn't mind at all since I KNEW my post didn't suck AND that I'm not discriminated.
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TheDeath
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posted November 07, 2008 06:02 PM |
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How is it "clear" without a QP if someone says "great work"? 
I think it's the other way around in fact. It's clear your effort was not wasted once someone says something like that. Does he/she need to nominate your for a damn red star to actually matter?
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william
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posted November 07, 2008 06:11 PM |
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Heh, I agree with Ceph. Maybe we could get back to less hostile discussion. It would be good if that could happen at least once when you two talk to each other.
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Azagal
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posted November 07, 2008 06:17 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 18:25, 07 Nov 2008.
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If I may add my 2 cents...
Ash... I honestly believe I understand what you say and I'm agree with you that posts in recent times that are a)less informative than yours and b) don't contain half the effort of yours have gotten QP's wile some of your posts have gone unrewarded.
However I mostly everything TheDeath says. Which doesn't mean you're wrong, I believe. If I may I would also like to say that I believe that you take this QP stuff a bit too serious and here is why. This whole dispute or problem comes down to the mentality a person has on QPs and I personally believe TheDeath has the healtier one.
Because: Whenever you post a QP-worthy reply it will help people and improve the community. A QP is simply the "offical" sign of apreciation on behalf of the "important" or "responseabil"or whatever you want to call our keepers of order, the mods. But simply because your post doesn't go rewarded officaly doesn't mean it's worthless or that it "sucks".
Asheera perhaps you'd like to read the feedback again you've received in the Sociogram. People love you. Naturally not love "love" but people don't find a single negative thing to say about you and consider you a vital part of HC. And you still contribute to this forum in ammounts noone has done before (that however is a personal perceiptions, which I think isn't vastly exagerated though). I'm sure you agree that the worth of such apreciation is beyond anything you get from a puny QP.
If you already understood that, please don't think I take it you are stupid but I simply felt like telling you this.
Now to the other part of why you are not receiving the QP's you should. I very strongly believe it is due to (2). I personally believe your example is 100% true. Yes it is exagerated but your point is correct. If I understand it correctly though it excludes the "discrimination" factor though. A mod giving a high quality and very contributive member (such as yourself) no QPs due to their already high QP count is not a sign of discrimination. I do not know what to call it, but I'm sure no mod purposefully does not give you QPs (eventhough as you said if anyone else had posted your post I'm sure he'd received a QP. If not instantly then if he were recommended. I'm sure.). Maybe higher standards for high QP members I don't know. I think you should talk to the responsabil mods (if you don't want to recommend yourself feel free to point me to the posts you mean and I shall recommend you) so that they can give concrete reasons as to why it doesn't get a QP.
However all of that shouldn't keep you from putting the effort in your posts like you have done until now. A QP may be a nice thing as the official reward and I understand that one is frustrated if someone else gets a QP for "less" (please understand that "less" is still subject to personal evaluation, eventhough I also believe some posts indeed get a QP for reasons not obvious on first or fifthed thought.) but please do not underestimate the appreciation you get for your posts. And if it doesn't go rewarded officially then so be it. But know that you will be rewarded in one way or another (either trough peoples gratitude or a QP).
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Asheera
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posted November 07, 2008 06:21 PM |
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@William:
Ok this is completely off-topic, but I agree and I'm tired of Death getting hostile and 'ruining' things like this. Every serious or sensible discussion with him turns into a flame-war, even though at first I try to be calm for as long as possible, but he always turns hostile for some reason.
Oh and don't tell me it's only with me, since it happened before my time with mvass as well, or in the NS message board with you Will.
Sometimes it makes me want to have that 'ignore poster' feature Mytical once suggested.
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william
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posted November 07, 2008 06:23 PM |
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Edited by william at 18:25, 07 Nov 2008.
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Skimmed through your post Azagal and it was quite a good one and I also skimmed through Asheeras post as well but the first line was bad:
Quote:
I give up putting a lot of effort into some of my posts.
I have often seen you, Asheera, promoting your posts in some way or another (even if they aren't QP worthy at all) and trying to get attention in a way (not a bad thing but just my observation). If somebody says something bad to you then you seem to post in a negative way and you take it too badly imo. If a mods sees your posts that you have worked hard on then you might get a QP or not but in the end, who cares? Do you just post for the QP's or do you actually want to make a contribution here? If you eliminate the QP's entirely, would you still make the same amount of effort and contribution that you have done? In all honesty, I don't think you would have (I might be wrong) but from what I have seen, you like to post the really big posts in order to achieve something, and I guess you feel good when you do get rewarded. But what about feeling good that you have contributed without actually getting rewarded? Where has that gone these days?
I dunno, just felt like making a short point and I might be totally wrong, who knows, but at least I got that off my chest.
And Asheera, I know what you mean. However, TheDeath isn't totally to blame for all this. He doesn't always start flame wars and getting hostile. I have seen a few times where he has talked calmly and then somebody has has responded in an unexpected way and then the discussion turned from good into bad. I agree that TheDeath can be a little hard to talk to since he does like to argue a lot and he really doesn't know when to stop, but maybe he can't help that, I dunno, but he shouldn't be blamed all the time for when somebody does get into an argument with him.
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TheDeath
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posted November 07, 2008 06:24 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 18:30, 07 Nov 2008.
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Ash: No that is because you can't get my point (look at other good posters like Corribus, Mytical and Doomforge for example, when I 'argue' with them) and you mostly repeat the same stuff which I already explained (and frankly that is WHY i bold so much, to make it clear, NOT to shout or anything like that, do not get me wrong, it's an old habit from mvass because I had to repeat my point 100 times until he said "oh, that's what you meant, then..." )
And I think William is right. Why do you post? If at least one member is satisfied with what you have done then you should feel good that you contributed something. Even if killa_bee comes and spreads his **** why don't you take him seriously, but when it's about QPs, you do?
If someone is satisfied with what you have done, then you should feel good for doing it, and in fact, isn't that the whole reason to post it, or maybe it SHOULD be but if you're after QPs...
Oh and William:Quote:
...and he really doesn't know when to stop
Funny how all of you people say that and you are the ones who keep posting (I am too, but you blame only me), can't you follow your own advice? (well NOT in this thread but ok it was off topic remark).
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Asheera
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posted November 07, 2008 06:29 PM |
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Quote:
If you eliminate the QP's entirely, would you still make the same amount of effort and contribution that you have done?
Yes. As I said in my posts, that's not the problem.
The problem is when something receives a QP which required less effort than mine, which is an indirectly way of saying that it was better. That's why I don't feel like putting such a high effort in some posts when one with less effort is better.
However, there could be the (2) case of course. But I'm not going to repeat myself once again.
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william
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posted November 07, 2008 06:29 PM |
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Edited by william at 18:31, 07 Nov 2008.
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@ TheDeath
Heh, you missed the rest of my post. I said that we shouldn't always blame you.  I go overboard at times as well, so does Asheera and so do other people.
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TheDeath
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posted November 07, 2008 06:30 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 18:31, 07 Nov 2008.
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Quote:
The problem is when something receives a QP which required less effort than mine, which is an indirectly way of saying that it was better.
You keep repeating this when I said that it is not an indirect way of saying it was better (how would you know that? it's purely subjective just like any other option).
And you know what? Why do you even care if your posts are "inferior" as long as some people comment and like it?
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william
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posted November 07, 2008 06:33 PM |
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Edited by william at 18:34, 07 Nov 2008.
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@ Ash
So what if it was less effort? More effort might not necessarily mean it's better. Take for example a song. Now I could put a years worth of effort into that and then release it. Just because it has taken a years worth of effort, doesn't mean that people are necessarily going to like it
Take a game for example. Some games are crap even though the effort put into them was quite a lot, more so than some other games which required less effort but were much better. Yes I know you were making an example (I think) but more effort doesn't necessarily mean it will be better.
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Asheera
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posted November 07, 2008 06:33 PM |
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Edited by Asheera at 18:35, 07 Nov 2008.
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Quote:
And you know what? Why do you even care if your posts are "inferior" as long as some people comment and like it?
Because I put too much effort in them.
It's like this:
1) You make high-effort posts, but 'inferior'
2) You make mid-effort posts which are 'superior'
Is there a reason to make (1) anymore?
@William: I perfectly agree. I didn't start this whole discussion to get QPs for those posts. They could not be quality and I understand. My point was simply to tell you that I won't make them since they're not 'good'.
Would you make a crappy game a second time and put high-effort in it if you KNOW it's not very quality? Why would you?
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Cepheus
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posted November 07, 2008 06:34 PM |
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Quote:
Funny how all of you people say that and you are the ones who keep posting (I am too, but you blame only me), can't you follow your own advice? (well NOT in this thread but ok it was off topic remark).
I apologise. I'm just quite annoyed that a pair of people whom I know to be quality contributors and decent in general are resorting to petty bickering and childish remarks just to prove Krohn-knows-how-many very pointless points. I like a debate as much as the next guy, but it's going overboard here and it'd be nice if it ended.
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TheDeath
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posted November 07, 2008 06:34 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 18:35, 07 Nov 2008.
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@Ash: By that logic, posts in the past who got easy QPs would be "better"? Why do you make exceptions only there, isn't that subjective just like "how do you know if I contribute?"
If people are interested and say (indirectly) "great job" or "awesome" then it's good.
@Ceph: don't worry that was more like a sarcastic remark
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Azagal
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posted November 07, 2008 06:35 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 18:41, 07 Nov 2008.
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Asheera please understand that I'm not saying all that "People love you" and "you get huge ammounts of apreciation" just to be sweet talking (is that an english expression ?). It is ment in all honesty.
But please please do not take posts suchs as wills last and TheDeaths entirety as "hostile". I agree with will. You really do seem to like spotlight and most of the times you are entirely entitled to have it.
And please do not take the question will asked as offensive but perhaps you should really ask yourself wether you would do all the things you do if there were no QPs, based on your argumentation and your behaviour in some few cases (meaning the ones where you give a gentle nugde in the general direction of your posts (may it be out of perfectly understandable frustration or other reasons)) this is reasonable question to be asked. Not out of disrespect for you but to clear this mess up. Nobody wants to say your posts "suck" (didn't say you perceived it that way I'm just saying that in case).
EDIT:
OOOOOOOOOOI!!! Please don't ignore my high effor posts here (not being ironic nor wanting to satire Ash)! I'm actually really giving this a lot of thought and I think I'm being all peaceful and that my points are atleast semi intelligent and reasonable and could solve this. But I might be mistaken
Quote:
They could not be quality and I understand. My point was simply to tell you that I won't make them since they're not 'good'.
But they are good!! That's my point!! Off you go to read my posts! RUUUN
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