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Elit
Famous Hero
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posted April 12, 2008 11:36 AM |
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Good job Cepheus 
It's Strider personal MoD and i dont agree with changes...so will not use it.
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infinitus
Supreme Hero
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posted April 12, 2008 12:45 PM |
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No mod in my games
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Nothing's impossible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=loCSLJ6IodY
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Fraudatio
Famous Hero
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posted April 12, 2008 09:11 PM |
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Quote:
It's Strider personal MoD and i dont agree with changes...so will not use it.
Nothing personal, eh?
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted April 12, 2008 11:16 PM |
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I will play with the MOD... infact I am setting up clan war with Strider and we will be using the MOD...
I am all for what ever makes this game more balanced. Seems some players can only prevail by exploiting those weakness of game.. take that away from them, and the cannot stay above water..
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the_teacher
Supreme Hero
Talk to the hand!
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posted April 12, 2008 11:43 PM |
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its not good to be completelly reluctant to changes, it worth at least one try, thenit might turn out right and could give something better than actual state. anyway, no matter what it will come outta this, i appreciate strider's and cepheus' endeavours, and all the ppl that added constructive suggestions in this thread.
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Strider_HL
Famous Hero
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posted April 12, 2008 11:49 PM |
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Quote:
It's Strider personal MoD and i dont agree with changes...so will not use it.
Amazing stuff you are using  This thread is all about democracy and the TOH MOD is a product of the whole community. If I had it my way there would be ~20 changes.
Many players might get confused by your hollow statements, therefore I'll name several hardcore veterans and emperors from previous season along with rising stars that have agreed also to play with TOH MOD:
Jinxer, Destro, Vex, Gmmari, Kispagat, Odiak, Fraudatio, Fiur, Elvin, Teacher, Valky, Insatiable, Zilonite, Cmeptb and even our beloved Sq79, and so on...
Sorry, guys, for bringing your names up but I hope that the list will facilitate more people to try the MOD. After all, it will be used until oficial patch comes out and there is no reason to perceive it as a plague that is going to destroy H5.
Remember - the purpose of the TOH MOD is to make game more balanced, multilateral and challenging! Try it out 
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Elit
Famous Hero
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posted April 13, 2008 06:48 AM |
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Edited by Elit at 07:48, 13 Apr 2008.
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Quote:
Quote:
It's Strider personal MoD and i dont agree with changes...so will not use it.
Amazing stuff you are using This thread is all about democracy and the TOH MOD is a product of the whole community. If I had it my way there would be ~20 changes.
Many players might get confused by your hollow statements, therefore I'll name several hardcore veterans and emperors from previous season along with rising stars that have agreed also to play with TOH MOD:
Jinxer, Destro, Vex, Gmmari, Kispagat, Odiak, Fraudatio, Fiur, Elvin, Teacher, Valky, Insatiable, Zilonite, Cmeptb and even our beloved Sq79, and so on...
Sorry, guys, for bringing your names up but I hope that the list will facilitate more people to try the MOD. After all, it will be used until oficial patch comes out and there is no reason to perceive it as a plague that is going to destroy H5.
Remember - the purpose of the TOH MOD is to make game more balanced, multilateral and challenging! Try it out
This MoD is NOT BALANCED and its main reason for me do not use it. I cant see in this treat where all ppl (what names you quote) agree with changes what you put. All what i see is making Sylvan more strong and all other races more weak in this MoD. Maybe you need to stop trick and manipulate ppl and start play fair and honest?
P.S for all who cant understand why i'm not agree with part from changes. Many from games in toh are on smal maps. All small maps are War Machines maps! Sylvan cant get easy War Machines...but can kill very well from begining. Races like Runemage/knight/Barbarian/Demons/ have very hard start and cant kill much in begining/week 1. All this races if get Attack need so much tactics but in "strider mod" they cant have it if choice Flaming Arrows. From other side Sylvan no need more tactics, in ToTe he have his Familar Ground and for him Frenzy+Nature's Wrath is very useful.Sylvan with War Machines and Imbue Balista is INCREDIBLE STRONG. Its not close to compare with "stupid" Flaming Arrows. So in this mod all might races will have less ability for creeping compare sylvan.
All mages races can kill from begining. Necro and Dungeon not use War machines 99% in his games. Its stupid for them to get it. Wizard can use War Machines but he need so much mage skills and his hero not up attack so his balista cant compare with most Might races. Wizard have 2% chance for attack so he cant have this skill most from games and cant use Flaming Arrows. From other side if he have luck to get attack for him is useless to get Frenzy.
About DV. Yes i think its not balanced before...but few games change my mind. I have game with necro where i use Vamp+arcane Armor on dragons vs my oponent (dwarf). He not have any chances to kill my dragons and they smack all his lvl 2/4/5. So he use after few turns battles DV on dragons and kill them in 1 shot. Are its unbalanced ? I dont think. I have other games vs Sylvan and Academy. Both races can be very fast. So far DV is best spel vs Sylvan dragons who can come on 1st turn and hit few from your units with luck and kill almost all. Its crazy dmg from dragons and they will resive "fair" dmg from DV. I dont see any unbalance here !
All good races have DV+resurect and all evil have pupet+vamp. Pupet and DV can be resist. Its balanced and no need change.
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Fraudatio
Famous Hero
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posted April 13, 2008 09:35 AM |
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Its obvious that a 3 castle map and a 1 castle map don`t play the same - but for 90% of the maps played here at ToH I think this MOD will make it more balanced. If HG is an exception i wouldnt know, haven`t played it nearly enough - but it seems a little narrow minded to me to use one map as holder of the divine truth  .
That DV wasn`t unbalancing in one or two rather rare (if i can be so bold)circumstances is no news to anyone, but you gotta look at the general mechanics:
It makes sense that it does a great deal of damage, but not enough to kill 20 emeralds, just because they killed some 700 skellies with lousy defence (just making up the numbers here). It disregards attack/defence (as all spells) but then it in addition does much more damage. Broken. I guess a poll-result on that subject would be quite "unbalanced" 
Anyway, you are obviously entitled to have your own opinions just as much as I am Elit
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Fraudatio
Famous Hero
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posted April 13, 2008 09:36 AM |
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Quote:
Its obvious that a 3 castle map and a 1 castle map don`t play the same - but for 90% of the maps played here at ToH I think this MOD will make it more balanced. If HG is an exception i wouldnt know, haven`t played it nearly enough - but it seems a little narrow minded to me to use one map as holder of the divine truth .
That DV wasn`t unbalancing in one or two rather rare (if i can be so bold)circumstances is no news to anyone, but you gotta look at the general mechanics:
It makes sense that it does a great deal of damage, but not enough to kill 20 emeralds, just because they killed some 700 skellies with lousy defence (just making up the numbers here). It disregards attack/defence (as all spells) but then it in addition does much more damage. AND, unlike puppet it cannot be cleansed. Broken. I guess a poll-result on that subject would be quite "unbalanced"
Anyway, you are obviously entitled to have your own opinions just as much as I am Elit
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Elit
Famous Hero
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posted April 13, 2008 10:51 AM |
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fraudatio: I dont talk about HG... its about all smal maps with 1 town. War machines are most important skill at all but Sylvan/Academy/Dungeon/Necro noneed War Machines to can start kill from begining. All pure might races Knigh/Barbarian/Inferno/Fortres have big problems in begining. So they need so much War Machines to can lvl in same speed like 1st grup races. Change War Machines reqest with "bad skills" is very bad idea. We talk in begining--> to make more hard to get Flaming Arrows and I give alredy very good sugestion for it.
"In HoF max benefit from War Machines have inferno (because up main attack+Knowledge). For this in ToTe inferno have max reqest for get Flaming Arrows. No starting War Machines hero need lvl 16 for get Expert war Machines+Triple balista+First Aid+Flaming Arrows. So far Conjure Phoenix are useful vs strong high lvl army after 15-18lvl. Flaming Arrows give max benifist vs lvl 6-7 creatures so if we make it possible after 15lvl will get more "balance".
Most easy and simple to make it is this:
-->Barbarian: Memory of our Blood+Powerful Blow+Might Over Magic.
-->Knight: Benediction+Expert Trainer+Retaliation Strike
-->Necromancer: Banshee Howl+Eternal Servitude+Mark of the Necromancer
-->Ranger: Deadeye Shot+Imbue Arrow+Rain of Arrows
-->Runemage: Fine Rune+Greater Rune+Refresh Rune
-->Warlock: Dark Ritual+Elemental Vision+Empowered Spells
-->Wizard: Consume Artifact+Magic mirror+Mark of the Wizard
We will prevent early get Flaming Arrows and keep max possible skill choices for diferent play."
What we get in "Strider" MoD is totaly diferent and only he agree with his sugestion. I dont like how he kill options for diferent play.
About DV. On smal maps its not more powerful from Destructive spels or mass Decay or Flaming Arrows. If we make double price for cast DV its will be enough. Its will make Suppres light more useful skill too and very efective vs Haven/Fortres. Sylvan have low Spel so his DV will be not so good. Wizard is mage so he deserve to have good DMG spel like Warlock.
What i'm try to say...here have alot arguments against this MoD. If you like it noting bad to use MoD but if your oponent dont like MoD dont say him "we need use mod because its more balanced or because all agree to use it".
I have different view and think its clear
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted April 13, 2008 05:14 PM |
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Quote:
Sylvan have low Spel so his DV will be not so good.
@ Elit -- Apparently you have no idea what your talking about. Divine Vengeance does not factor spell power at all... You can have Zero spell power and still DV can kill 20 Emeralds!
And on a side note... Sylvan actually can have higher spell power then any other town with the High Druids. In recent game vs Sylvan, ossir had 49 spell power. The one thing you have said Elit that is true... is that sylvan is way to strong and it needs alot more nerfing then just aarcanes.... but atleast fixing arcanes is a start.
I think the MOD is a great concept and may not be PERFECT in early testing stages but once tested and perfected it will be best thing for an online Tournament!
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 13, 2008 05:28 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 17:29, 13 Apr 2008.
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Quote:
Sylvan cant get easy War Machines...but can kill very well from begining.Races like Runemage/knight/Barbarian/Demons/ have very hard start and cant kill much in begining/week 1.
I don't know about haven and dwarves but all the aforementioned can play fast enough with or without flaming arrows. And no, sylvan is not as fast.
Quote:
From other side Sylvan no need more tactics, in ToTe he have his Familar Ground and for him Frenzy+Nature's Wrath is very useful.Sylvan with War Machines and Imbue Balista is INCREDIBLE STRONG. Its not close to compare with "stupid" Flaming Arrows. So in this mod all might races will have less ability for creeping compare sylvan.
As if all maps have grass. Tactics is always important both as a failsafe and to prevent opponent using it. And sylvan will have that INCREDIBLY STRONG ballista once in a blue moon.
To avoid massive quoting if you think that dv is fine against crystal dragon it's worse when the ranger uses rain of arrows and kills 3 of your stacks with it. Where is that elusive balance?
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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the_teacher
Supreme Hero
Talk to the hand!
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posted April 14, 2008 12:02 PM |
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elit, even if i am a nature clan, i play sylvan once in 10 games, rest are random. so , from this point of view, toh mod might be interesting to experiment with different races and only after that, after i "feel" the changes in their depth , can say its good or bad or what can be improved.
untill then, it represents a refreshment and ill give it a try. in one month of testing im sure we will have a better version.
i think ill buy u and strider 2 beers and force u to get along, im not sure you have the appropriate age for that, but there is always alcohol free ones
Morale: better lose some games and stay at legionnare level, between the mortals, rather than breathing the rarefied air of the bigoted realm of emperors it causes more tension
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Fraudatio
Famous Hero
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posted April 14, 2008 09:17 PM |
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haha, brilliant teacher, just brilliant, hit the nail right ontop of the head
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DIEGIS
Supreme Hero
power of Zamolxis
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posted April 15, 2008 07:46 AM |
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"What i'm try to say...here have alot arguments against this MoD. If you like it noting bad to use MoD but if your oponent dont like MoD dont say him "we need use mod because its more balanced or because all agree to use it". "
Couldnt be said better, no more words to add here. Especialy the last.
The rest is just "diplomacy" on "the land of whos knowing who and influences"...thats what this game unfortunately became.
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dacian falx behind you
-knowledge itself is power-
www.cabinet-dentaire-malaunay.fr
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted April 15, 2008 08:10 PM |
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TOH MoD
Someone make a comprehensive list of all the mods agreed on, or at least debated on. I will make a post on ToH and an official vote set up on there, and see what the ToH masses will push for, because not everyone is active on this messageboard.
Do it now please.
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Strider_HL
Famous Hero
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posted April 15, 2008 08:49 PM |
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Quote:
Someone make a comprehensive list of all the mods agreed on, or at least debated on. I will make a post on ToH and an official vote set up on there, and see what the ToH masses will push for, because not everyone is active on this messageboard.
Ves, turn your attention to the very first post of the thread. I'll update it as additional changes are implemented (if any) in TOH MOD.
Suggestion - perhaps you could make this thread "sticky" in forums so that any newbie who enters the realm can read this first post along with "meeting new players" thread, etc..
Very good idea to publish the news about TOH MOD completion on TOH mainpage with link to forums! As for voting... the MOD still needs to be playtested for a profound conclusions to be evoked.
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Elit
Famous Hero
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posted April 16, 2008 10:10 AM |
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Quote:
Someone make a comprehensive list of all the mods agreed on, or at least debated on. I will make a post on ToH and an official vote set up on there, and see what the ToH masses will push for, because not everyone is active on this messageboard.
Main problem for me in this mod is changes on Flaming arrows/triple ballista. We dont need to change Triple balista only Flaming arrow. We have 2 suggestion and Strider put his in MoD befor real debat. In both suggestions Flaming arrows cant be get early now...so fix main problem. Diference in both suggestions is: In my all races keep max options for diferent up skills, in Strider he set reqest for "Frenzy". For many races its "not best" reqest but what is more important "you will know 100% your oponent cant have tactic or Cold Seel" so here not options for suprise oponent in final battles.
About DV need more test but make its less strong is not big problem. I'm realy not sure how "overpowered is this spel. My last game vs Sylvan oponent use Imbue arrow+DV+Rain of arrows+ 38 Spel Power. Its not change much battle.
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Strider_HL
Famous Hero
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posted April 16, 2008 11:06 AM |
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Quote:
Main problem for me in this mod is changes on Flaming arrows/triple ballista. We dont need to change Triple balista only Flaming arrow. We have 2 suggestion and Strider put his in MoD befor real debat.
Discussions went on for a month. To summarize - flaming arrows on MOST 1-2 town maps with final around week 3-5 are huge power. If you go for that power then be ready to pay - NO FREE LUNCH.
Basically, discussion here is only about "frenzy" and majority of us went for a "trade-off" approach rather than "all possible play". With the TRADE-OFF present it's acctually highly probable that games will be more versatile this way. If a player is desperately looking for tactics then don't count on getting the uber power as well...
In general, economic theories have proven that opportunity cost of choice requires more efficient resource planning, strategic approach and specialization. All these aforementioned elements facilitate more diversified development scenarious of our beloved game. Try it and enjoy it!
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 16, 2008 12:24 PM |
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Depends on the map really. If there are many artifacts/dwellings and the encounter is week 4-5 chances are that the opponent will have initiative artifacts and that his shooters will take down the ballista on round 1. Have seen it happen more than a few times.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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