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Fraudatio
Famous Hero
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posted April 19, 2008 01:52 PM |
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Besides, the leader of some unknown ppl elit has stated many times that TOTE is "perfect balance play".
You`d think we were 14 years old all of us, and in love with the same girl. Very mature posts Strider and Elit. I got my answers anyway.
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Strider_HL
Famous Hero
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posted April 19, 2008 02:11 PM |
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Quote:
Besides, the leader of some unknown ppl elit has stated many times that TOTE is "perfect balance play".
You`d think we were 14 years old all of us, and in love with the same girl. Very mature posts Strider and Elit. I got my answers anyway.
True  Emotions from knocking down a self regenerating brick wall embedded in quicksand (the unpredictable hurricane generally known by gentle name elit) takes away the best of me hehe
Btw, elit, seems that we play orcs quite differently...I'll refrain from further comments.
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted April 19, 2008 02:45 PM |
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Oh well, seems that i completely fail to understand what you guys are trying to do. I'd better step out of this debate. 
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Elit
Famous Hero
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posted April 19, 2008 07:29 PM |
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Quote:
Btw, elit, seems that we play orcs quite differently...I'll refrain from further comments.
Noting bad to play diferent but if MoD affect only my way for play its not fair 
Will appreciate if you star use arguments in your post. Now we cant make any real debat and ppl start leave from it 
I cant understand why one time in your ToH life you cant accept other view/sugestions. Give ppl "choice" how to play. Its all for what i'm fight.
About spels. I realy want to see it in MoD. Its bigest unbalanced bug in ToTe. On maps where you have access on low lvls to Pyramid,Vault of the Mages,Dragon Utopia you can get mage skill after get spels...but have many maps where have strong guards befor access this bildings and all your skills are filed alredy. So geting no native spels is totaly stupid and can kill your game.
I will try to make all max clear:
1. I dont need this MoD to ban with oponent DV for final battles!
2. I dont need this MoD to ban Dungeon on map if we think he is over powered!
3. I dont need this MoD to ban native War Machines heroes to prevent easy creeping with War Macnines+possible Flaming arrow.
4.Only what i cant fix in my games with oponent is spel BUG from bildings. Its MOST IMPORTANT UNBALANCE STUF WHAT NEED FIX THIS MOD !!!
Sumary. Only real benifist what we can get from MoD is to fix main BUG in ToTe. All other can be fix with game rules...and this make curent MoD useless.
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Strider_HL
Famous Hero
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posted April 19, 2008 08:47 PM |
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Quote:
Sumary. Only real benifist what we can get from MoD is to fix main BUG in ToTe. All other can be fix with game rules...and this make curent MoD useless.
Seems that you haven't noticed that this statement actually promotes the TOH MOD in the most vivid manner! After all, into what would H5 turn if players banned dungeon, sylvan, warpath, w/m heroes
Therefore, the MOD has a very noble cause - namely, letting players to enjoy the actual gameplay instead of whining and arguing about imbas or banning half of game elements. That being agreed upon - let's finish this project and turn our attention to actual battling using it
As for spell getting from structures, seems that opinions are split here as well. Although, I'm voting for current system, the old one was fine as well. Gather more supporters for this amendment and, if there are only few objections, it could be included in the MOD.
Continuing, what about swift mind for magic races? Even elit wanted to correct this. Example: just today we finished game with master bard Fiur on Rat Race where I was dungeon vs. his haven. With this small perk further battle was meaningless... I doubt Fiur enjoyed this grr I'm voting strongly for hardening its prerequisites.
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infinitus
Supreme Hero
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posted April 19, 2008 09:07 PM |
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"Therefore, the MOD has a very noble cause - namely, letting players to enjoy the actual gameplay instead of whining and arguing about imbas or banning half of game elements. That being agreed upon - let's finish this project and turn our attention to actual battling using it"
Whining and arguing will nether stop, even if game will by 100% balanced
____________
Nothing's impossible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=loCSLJ6IodY
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Elit
Famous Hero
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posted April 19, 2008 09:25 PM |
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Quote:
Continuing, what about swift mind for magic races? Even elit wanted to correct this. Example: just today we finished game with master bard Fiur on Rat Race where I was dungeon vs. his haven. With this small perk further battle was meaningless... I doubt Fiur enjoyed this grr I'm voting strongly for hardening its prerequisites.
Its result from your MoD. Now migh races have less ability for creeping and all Mages race have advantage on smal maps nv you have Swif mind or not. About change it. Its enough hard for Wizard and Fortres with his 2% log. Teleport Assalt is very useful too and you cant have both. Main problem is Dungeon+Swif Mind. His destructive spels on smal maps are crazy. But its dungeon and his way for play.
P.S. In your last post in dont see again any argument Strider. Its WASTE OF TIME to debate with you.
If i want MoD i will find some one to make for me, how you did alredy. Your MoD changes for War Machines and Flaming arrows make game more UNBALANCED. Play it and enjoy your cheap wons with it.
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Elit
Famous Hero
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posted April 19, 2008 09:51 PM |
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Edited by Elit at 08:10, 20 Apr 2008.
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Because you give examples from RatRace i can give you my games on this map.
First game oponent get Inferno+Deleb vs me Dungeon. WE all know how strong is Deleb. I didunt go for Swift Mind. In final battlle Deleb balista has 12 ini and did deadly shots. After it i killed it with one FB. When my hero get his second turn allmost all army on oponent is alredy dead so i jsut cast Lightning Bolt and kiled his last creature. So my dungeon find way to won with army power not cheap Swif mind and Empowered spel! Maybe you need to learn how to play "diferent" too?
Second game oponent get Sylvan+Ossyr vs me Haven+Lazlo. Not look so luck game again. Good we not use your MoD. This give me chance because i get on lvl 5 War Machines so help me alot to can creeping. I didunt go for Flaming arrows...will be waste of skills from my view. In final battle my balista not did much dmg...but i have enough high lvl hero/crazy stats and i wont with army power. If we use your MoD this will slow my creeping but not slow/down sylvan power on map. So its only kill balance on map like RatRace.
Why i need to use unbalanced MoD?
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fiur
Promising
Supreme Hero
Map Creator
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posted April 19, 2008 10:19 PM |
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Quote:
Because you give examples from RR with Fiur i can give you my games vs Him.
First game he get Inferno+Deleb vs Dungeon. WE all know how strong is Deleb. I didunt go for Swift Mind. In final battlle his balista has 12 ini and did deadly shots. After it i killed it with one FB. When my hero get his second turn allmost all army on Fiur is alredy dead so i jsut cast Lightning Bolt and kiled his last creature. So my dungeon find way to won with army power not cheap Swif mind and Empowered spel! Maybe you need to learn how to play "diferent" too?
Second game he get Sylvan+Ossyr vs Haven+Lazlo. Not look so luck game again. Good we not use your MoD. This give me chance because i get on lvl 5 War Machines so help me alot to can creeping. I didunt go for Flaming arrows...will be waste of skills from my view. In final battle my balista not did much dmg...but i have enough high lvl hero/crazy stats and i wont with army power. If we use your MoD this will slow my creeping but not slow/down sylvan power on map. So its only kill balance on map like RR.
Why i need to use unbalanced MoD?
First of all to Both
Strider and Elit nice of you to mention my names among yourself.. But I will never be an match up for ya guys...
In my latest game I really wanted to make something... (like when I went straight for the lvl.7 dwelling and find lots of druids... but I never flee took the fight and won.... for what?......)
there is no dobt in the world that Both Strider and Elit (and for sure several other, got this game up on another lvl. than my one)
I just enjoy the game and all thats within... but latest few game I have my dobts about what I'm actually doing..... one answer can be..... leave those "godness" players alone let they do what they do best.... and fiur... you do your stuff aswell... not sure...
but playing for 6h+++ for several games and that particular games just ends like a cartoon joke... (read: fiur is the big paperdoll)
thats just spoils the fun for me....
I've never got troubled with beeing beaten... (if so I'll quit this game loooooooong time ago)
but when the gap between me an my opponent is wider than the Pacific (Ocean)
well then I should take my game up to an reconsideration
fiur out....
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Elit
Famous Hero
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posted April 19, 2008 10:33 PM |
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Sorry Fiur if you are offenced from my post. All what i want to say is you can find way for conter oponent nv if he get Deleb and you no need to use flaming arrows or swif mind for it.
99% from my games i'm not use Flaming arrow. Its imba...but have very useful other ways for play too. Maybe if Strider start play like Emperator and stop only coppy old tactics will understand why i like tote so much
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Fraudatio
Famous Hero
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posted April 19, 2008 10:44 PM |
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new suggestion - cant you guys, Strider and Elit, just play a best of 5 or best of 7 series on a map or two? It will keep you busy and maybe you both will have a rare close fight. I would want to look though
We probably have to hire the UN peace forces though to keep things civil.
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Strider_HL
Famous Hero
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posted April 19, 2008 11:32 PM |
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Quote:
99% from my games i'm not use Flaming arrow. Its imba...but have very useful other ways for play too. Maybe if Strider start play like Emperator and stop only coppy old tactics will understand why i like tote so much
Doh, make up your mind whether early Flaming is imba or not. Besides, you seem to forget that I'm keen opponent to current imbas and TOH MOD project is to fix them. And think more widely - if you personally choose not to use any of them, it still does not solve the problem in general. Can you grasp the idea of analytical approach to the problem?
Your example of ossir/lazlo... actually with the MOD it's the opposite - arcane archers are weaker and nothing in MOD stands in the way to w/m. Don't mistaken Flaming arrows for w/m lol I hope you are not going to undertake a pitiful attempt to persuade us that haven cannot creep without Flaming arrows 
On final note, elit, just avoid the personal stuff and pretending like you know my strategy. Just take a wider look - if there is such a wonderful perk like Flaming and you are playing orcs, then why don't we just take it on day 5 and roll on? If you can comprehend this "general" problem then you might also understand what TOH MOD tries to do.
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sq79
Famous Hero
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posted April 19, 2008 11:52 PM |
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Was thinking is there a way to make ballista hp increase according to week ?
Maybe 300hp on week1, 600 on week2 and +300 every week and so forth, so its not too strong in early fights and not too weak in late game ?
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infinitus
Supreme Hero
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posted April 20, 2008 07:04 AM |
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Maybe balista, destruction magic is good as it is ... By going balista players get advantage early game, but get in disadvantage late game ... So here is the balance - if you go balista you assume the risk to be crashed late game, you pay with late game risks to get advantage early game ... Typical situation, can by seen in many strategy games, battle between rush strategy and normal strategy ...
____________
Nothing's impossible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=loCSLJ6IodY
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Elit
Famous Hero
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posted April 20, 2008 07:33 AM |
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Quote:
Doh, make up your mind whether early Flaming is imba or not. Besides, you seem to forget that I'm keen opponent to current imbas and TOH MOD project is to fix them. And think more widely - if you personally choose not to use any of them, it still does not solve the problem in general. Can you grasp the idea of analytical approach to the problem?Quote:
Flaming arrows is good for creeping but have other very useful imbas too.
Quote:
Your example of ossir/lazlo... actually with the MOD it's the opposite - arcane archers are weaker and nothing in MOD stands in the way to w/m. Don't mistaken Flaming arrows for w/m lol I hope you are not going to undertake a pitiful attempt to persuade us that haven cannot creep without Flaming arrows
Quote:
I'm not mistake Flaming arrows with triple balista. Now you make for both reqest in your MoD ...so its slow up both. About Arcane archers...most games none have them befor week 3 so they are not for early creeping like War Machines.
Quote:
On final note, elit, just avoid the personal stuff and pretending like you know my strategy.
Quote:
When you not give arguments and use only personal attack i cant not reaply personal too.
Quote:
Just take a wider look - if there is such a wonderful perk like Flaming and you are playing orcs, then why don't we just take it on day 5 and roll on? If you can comprehend this "general" problem then you might also understand what TOH MOD tries to do.
Now you are try to fool us again. What skills you will have on lvl 5? Only Telsek from orc start with War Machines but on lvl 5 he can have max basic war machines+advance attack+flaming arrows. Its if he get every time what he want. Flaming arrows is not imba if you dont have expert War Machines and Balsita. So with native WM hero its not possible befor lvl 8-10. Game can not offer you all time what you want. You will need skip all other useful skill for get early Falming arrows+triple balista. If you dont know orc NO NEED FLAMING ARROWS to can creeping successful early in game. All WHAT HE NEED IS FIRST AID TENT ! Balista help alot too...but First Aid is most important skill for orc...not Flaming arrows.
Your personal MoD not balance game. He is make game more unbalanced on smal maps and give advantage on few races vs other. No point to use him now.
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Fraudatio
Famous Hero
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posted April 20, 2008 08:22 AM |
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Your personal MoD not balance game. He is make game more unbalanced on smal maps and give advantage on few races vs other. No point to use him now.
How can you say that this mod makes it more unbalanced on small maps? If you try to make a point don`t drown it in exaggerations.
On small maps Flaming can win the game alone, so how can making it harder to get unbalance things? As you stated yourself orcs can easily creep without flaming. You yourself suggested to make it harder to get, and now that is wrong? I accept that you think prereqs should be otherwise, you even have a good suggestion. But it doesnt fit in with what you are saying here.
So - one of these changes increses unbalance:
Nerfing DV
Nerfing Warpath
Removing arcanes force arrow
2 inv. turns.
I can see none. Dungeon and Sylvan is slightly reduced, but they still can be monsters on small maps aswell.
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Elit
Famous Hero
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posted April 20, 2008 08:45 AM |
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You get your answer in chat room
Will not bother to post here more.
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Strider_HL
Famous Hero
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posted April 20, 2008 10:04 AM |
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Quote:
About Arcane archers...most games none have them befor week 3 so they are not for early creeping like War Machines.
Astonishing demagogy This argument nicely falls in line with the rest of your discussion pattern. More and more this discussion on elit's part just looks like a scenery where a kid is refusing to eat at all if he doesn't get his favorite topping hehe
As for spell getting - if community thinks we should revert to old ways, it will be incorporated in the MOD. Don't throw frivolous accusations towards the whole MOD if we don't cheerfully agree to your suggestions right away. After all, majority here agrees about the need for those 5 amendments. Attacking them just undermines your own position as a sane person that has become ridiculous already a while back.
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Elit
Famous Hero
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posted April 20, 2008 10:22 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
About Arcane archers...most games none have them befor week 3 so they are not for early creeping like War Machines.
Astonishing demagogy This argument nicely falls in line with the rest of your discussion pattern. More and more this discussion on elit's part just looks like a scenery where a kid is refusing to eat at all if he doesn't get his favorite topping hehe
As for spell getting - if community thinks we should revert to old ways, it will be incorporated in the MOD. Don't throw frivolous accusations towards the whole MOD if we don't cheerfully agree to your suggestions right away. After all, majority here agrees about the need for those 5 amendments. Attacking them just undermines your own position as a sane person that has become ridiculous already a while back.
Nice post again. Clear say all your arguments why this MoD is good and avoid all personal stufs.
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infinitus
Supreme Hero
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posted April 20, 2008 11:10 AM |
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"More and more this discussion on elit's part just looks like a scenery where a kid is refusing to eat at all if he doesn't get his favorite topping hehe"
No, this just mean, Elit have his position, and he fight for what he believe is good for the game we all like ...
What make you to believe you, and your mode are so right ? Russians have other mod too, are they right ? Let's go all eat russian mod, or we are all kids refusing to eat ?
____________
Nothing's impossible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=loCSLJ6IodY
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