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| Thread: Random Maps |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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rychenroller
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted November 22, 2001 09:34 PM |
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Btw, I agree on andi, he thunps my ass handily everytime 
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andiangelsla...
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
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posted November 22, 2001 10:34 PM |
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well i just gotta laugh about randoms, i played them often, and sometimes i still play em with a friedm although we prefer maps, coz those maps suck so much its not even playable most of the times.
as for that silly lewis therin comment about no skill and thats why rules, no need to comment that i think.
btw when i was about to kill tim in a 3way on random he ran around the whole map and so i killed troelsen who didnt run, but thats prolly the skill you mean to flee and avoid a loss.
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Motorschaaf
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted November 22, 2001 10:45 PM |
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hmm
@rychen
i have nothing against random players. i surely undestand why they play them, and i bet they are fun if u get lucky and the generator makes a good one.
But i just don't enjoy em because the gereneraotr is a pain. i hate restarts and the fact that the towns are very very unbalanced on em.
i also never said random players dont have skill or so. there are a lot of random players that would kick my butt anytime on any map , but u have to understand i had to laugh when someone talks bout "tims outstanding skills" LOL.
@lews u really think all players that play with rules are less skilled ???? u joking are ya ??
Clanschaaf
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rychenroller
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted November 22, 2001 10:52 PM |
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Ok..
I've had this argument before, I think I've had it with Andi too, so I'll just say, each to their own, and move on.
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wiggy_wam
Promising
Famous Hero
local pirate
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posted November 23, 2001 12:05 AM |
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you know, I thought I was really good @ playing randoms with my 7-0 record (back then) ... until I played joe
now I'm 9-3 (0-2 with joe).
Anyway, I'd like to play you guys sometime on randoms ... get a good challenge and learn things.
yeah, finding a balanced random (where the two don't meet 1st week) takes a few restarts, which does suck ... but it usually takes up about 10 minutes out of a 3-5 hour game.
And if you think the HOMM3 map generator sucks, you havn't seen the HOMM2 generator! Whichever programmer implemented the HOMM3 random generator is a genius.
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- wiggy ... who has a crush on Rob's models. Well ... the ones his age (18-26) 
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Lews_Therin
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted November 23, 2001 01:30 AM |
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I donīt care how some people prefer to limit the tactical and strategical resourcefulness of their own games by making large sets of rules.
What I donīt like is that smell of biased and self-righteous judgement-making that you get from so many of Andiīs postings. All different kind of intelligent spell use is called "unfair", there are moral standards made about how people have to play so that the game is "fun" to Andi. Recently I even read that destroying an attackerīs catapult is supposed to be unethical.
Quote Andi about the use of Armageddon + magic immunity (hitīn run thread):
"he didnt find a way to beat him, he found a way to steal the victory he earned by playing better"
I donīt think that many pro-rules players would like to be identified with that way of thinking.
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wiggy_wam
Promising
Famous Hero
local pirate
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posted November 23, 2001 01:52 AM |
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well, said.
i recommend posting this on the other thread too.
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- wiggy ... who has a crush on Rob's models. Well ... the ones his age (18-26)
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jiels
Adventuring Hero
LFM C'thun, pst.
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posted November 23, 2001 02:23 AM |
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Quote:
I donīt care how some people prefer to limit the tactical and strategical resourcefulness of their own games by making large sets of rules.
I don't know about you Lews Therin, but I see more rules for randoms then made maps. Here are 2 good examples of what I mean:
"Phantom is also a man after my own heart as he plays randoms w/o scrolls or artifacts."
and:
"Additional Rules: 2) No Necro, Diplo skills at all any hero with those skills cant be used in ANY battle.
3) No1st day rush - means no attacking any opponent castle in1 turn.
4) No hit and run - you cant use your damage attacking spells and flees or surrender same turn until turn three.
5) No DD or fly at all in any form ever as wings. If map is splited in two unreachable region, game restarted.
6) No scrolls at all dont try ever for touch it.
7) Restart rules: Heroes with level higher than 1, no road from castle, blocked or unavailable wood/ore, meet (with attack possibility not only visibility) until second week, conflux restart too."
I understand that randoms are inherently unbalanced and these rules help even things up. But to quote a better player then I; "STOP WATERING DOWN HEROES WITH STUPID RULES."
I'm not saying that random map players are unskilled, they are probably some of the best players of toh. But with so many rules there are going to be so many different perspectives on what does or does not break the rule. I have enough arguments with rules like No log heroes, no H/R etc. Having to define 10 or so rules just to play a random is too much.
jiels (is getting tired of rule debates)
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MidnightWraith
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 23, 2001 02:34 AM |
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gee this thread was fun for a while then the wet blankets had to turn up
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jiels
Adventuring Hero
LFM C'thun, pst.
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posted November 23, 2001 02:58 AM |
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sorry
Ah geez Midnight, I wasn't trying to kill a fun thread. I just love to argue.
To get back on topic, the best random map player in toh is; Midnight, imo.
jiels (killing another thread)
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MidnightWraith
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 23, 2001 03:04 AM |
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ha ha, nice comeback, i really meant andi and motor, but i had the msg sitting there for an hour or so b4 i sent it so it looked like i was picking on u
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Lews_Therin
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted November 23, 2001 04:00 AM |
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Thank you Wiggy_Wam
Jiels, Iīm not a friend of those rules either. Restarting in case heroes meet in week 1 is okay with me, but banning items and skills from the game does not balance it, in my opinion.
My point is that with the large number of very strong factors in a random game, there are usually many ideas to be inventive and fight back when the opponent has an advantage. On an XL random map, you can find an antidote against almost anything. Okay, sometimes it doesnīt work out and you lose without chance, but I donīt think that the so-called balanced maps are better in this regard. In season 1 I played B4H alot, and found that once a player had the better mage guild spells or artifacts, it was hardly possible to break his grip if he played well.
Of course thatīs a matter of opinion, and I donīt expect everyone to agree with me. But I always respected JB-map players for their different kind of skills with the game, and never felt the urge to run around and make ignorant and devaluating remarks about their games, just because I find a different way of playing more enjoyable.
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jiels
Adventuring Hero
LFM C'thun, pst.
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posted November 23, 2001 04:24 AM |
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Hey Lews Therin,
Sounds like you are a human after my own heart when it comes to randoms then. Week 1 restart because of meeting is the only random rule I like too.
I just wanted to point out that a lot of the people that play randoms have their own rules they like to use. This in no way makes them bad players it just means they are playing a different kind of game then the rest of us.
I like playing randoms for the chaotic madness only found in randoms. Taking that out changes the game into something more akin to a made map, imo. Losing to DD scrolls in the 2nd week sucks but I like it when I win because of it.
A friend of mine lost to JTL last night because Joe had more angels from conservatories. He was happy that he had such a fun game even though he lost. That's what I like, no whining, no snowing, no trying to change the game, just having fun playing the game!
jiels (madness incarnate or something)
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zsa
Famous Hero
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posted November 23, 2001 05:42 AM |
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Random issue again
I said it and I said it again, RANDOM MAPS ARE THA BEST , RANDOMS RULE! , too bad (as Motor said) about that crappy generator  .
I like no rules also but the flaws in a random map request a set of rules, not to take the fun away from the game, not to give advantage to one player, but to make the map playable.
For example if I am blocked in my castle by lots of zealots of lots of minotaurs or angels aren't we gonna restart?
Another thing is having your ore AND lumber mine unaccesible and no possibility to get some wood or ore.
(ex: path to luber and ore mine is guarded by horde of Ice elements which guards shackles and the only way out of your area is by taking out lots of mighty gorgons).
There are some other things but I'm not gonna talk about them here.
Hope I haven't bored u too much .
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ironmlh
Known Hero
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posted November 23, 2001 05:54 AM |
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agreed
I agree 100% with ZSA randoms rule.. with a few small yet easily definable rules
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Phantom1500
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 24, 2001 11:10 PM |
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This thread is pretty funny.
Thanks everyone for the praise that i really don't deserve. It was all just the leprechaun in my computer that helped me. My skill was rather limited. I think there are a great deal of awesome random players out there, my highest respect has to go out to joe, since in many ways he kinda was my mentor. I played my first random game with him and I still remember it pretty well, i by a miracle got double strongholds and was doing great, but was too stupid to figure out that cyclops can break walls. Then our game kept crashing in the awesome final battle, so we called it a draw. Many others, midnight wraith is an awesome player and was surely gonna win KOR tourney, tim is amazing and everyone should really play him if you wanna learn a ton about the game and don't mind waiting. I played one of the best games i have had with Rychen, a marathon that involved every aspect of the game. Lews has been around since the beginning and it's dissapointing to see the fragile minds picking at him, show some respect. Tyris123 for his endless efforts and of course vazelin and FC, who were just amazing overall players. Others i am sure i have forgotten.
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Phantom1500
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 24, 2001 11:44 PM |
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Ok for those of you that particularly enjoy posting stupid comments and threads that asked simple questions now :
USE YOUR BRAIN Hmmm I think randoms are unfair. Well i did too and we designed things to make them more fair. All these random rules never existed before us and players tried to make the game better for everyone. Don't like utopias, play no arts or no relics, don't like scrolls, play no scrolls. It sure is easy to complain about everything, maybe if these people thought about it for a second, they can come up with solutions, but i guess that is too much to ask for of some.
Random rules were not designed to take away any strategies of any sort and you can see that when you ask more people. All we took out were the severe unbalancers such as scrolls, diplo, relics, and with time necro when everyone caught on to it. I have never asked for any other rules ever in my games. I have been hit and run, 1st day rushed, re-blinded, 1st day DDoor rushed, had to face 9000 royal griffons cause it was week of them twice and opponent with castle got all to join with no diplo, you name it i saw it, i lost and I won, but in the end i loved every game.
For me at least, random maps were an evolution of gaming, I played random maps very rarely season 2 and pretty much enjoyed killing everyone one DW, BM, showdown, you name it i played it and i won most games. Then i realised that playing all these is showing little skill, the true heroes played must be able to fully improvise all strategies on the fly, be able to analyse all situations in that same turn and respond properly. Random maps are the only way you can do that. You don't know where you are, where you are going, what is there and you don't know where the enemy is. How much better can it get? The true test of skill in every way possible. It became that all the made maps were so primitive to me and so brainless that it was a waste of time to even play them. "Blind" maps you say, well they are all the same anyway, you know where your opponent is and no real need to scout or do anything, but sit there and build. You wanna do that, go right ahead, you have fun doing it, great i use to also.
With randoms you don't scout, you die, you don't expand you die, you are not creative, you die. You say randoms are all luck, well that is just flat out stupid, randoms are all creativity and a players ability to improvise. Some show it and become great players others lack it, and they snow. It's similar in society i suppose, some people can make critical decisions, some are button hitting monkeys, so what else is new here.
As for Andi, don't you see that every post you make here you are not only insulting these people who are talking about things you don't care about, you are just showing off your personal idiocy. The things you say are so dumb, that if you actually took the time to think about it yourself, you can probably answer your own questions. I am glad and most people know about your amazing ability to click buttons real fast, well more power to you. I don't see how you can even dare insult people like Tim here, you will never reach the level he is at and even bothering to will prolly make your head burst. He ran around and avoided you cause that is what armies do, everything to win and he succeeded avoiding the situation. The little poodles always like to bark at the big dogs. You don't like randoms, don't play them, but your stupid comments are not appreciated here, go tell them to your super "honorable" buddies who just like to build, face off and die and I am glad you take great pride to be the best at that. So please stop doing your wonderful Lastplace immitations and don't post in a thread about honor.
In fact most these great players mentioned here just got tired of playing regular maps, cause you can surpass that level and be able to deal with absolutely anything thrown at you, like randoms maps enable you to do. Don't get me wrong, it's still fun to do the TOH maps and takes great skill, but just in my opinion, randoms take more. In the end, if there is something you don't like about the generator, tell your opponent about it and eliminate it by a simple map rule. Randoms require non-linear thinking, so if you just like to fight monsters and big battles don't bother, you won't like it. Funny that i made the Tacticians Corner tourney just for those people who like big battles, and the same old ones complained about how unfair it was without ever even trying it.
So in the end, if anyone really wants to learn the game, play those that have been mentioned here and save, you will see some of the most creative and awesome games you can imagine.
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jiels
Adventuring Hero
LFM C'thun, pst.
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posted November 25, 2001 03:20 AM |
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Ok before I start talking, I just want to say that I enjoy arguing and debating, and I don't take things personally. Phantom1500 has some really good points, I just disagree with a few of the things he has said. In fact, I think we have very similiar views on heroes when we get down to the basics.
From Phantom's post I assume he is responding to my pointing out the hypocrisy he has voiced. As such, I am responding in a personal manner. If you are not Phantom1500, then understand that I don't hate him, I just really dislike his holier then thou attitude and immature mindset.
Quote:
Ok for those of you that particularly enjoy posting stupid comments and threads that asked simple questions now :
USE YOUR BRAIN Hmmm I think randoms are unfair.
Heroes 3 is inherently unfair. I am using the defintion of fair in that it means being equal. Nothing is this game is equal. Each hero is different and has it's own strenths and weaknesses, same with creatures, castles, artifacts etc. This means that even if you try to make things fair it's not going to be. It can't be done. It's impossible. To try is to limit the game which decreases the tactical aspects and makes it more linear. If that's your trip then, hey, have fun. Understand that you have changed the game to a degree that changes the very nature of the game, imo. Before you respond to this, think of what I am saying. A game with lots of rules is significantly different then what you get when you pop in the cd and hit begin. Quote:
Well i did too and we designed things to make them more fair. All these random rules never existed before us and players tried to make the game better for everyone. Don't like utopias, play no arts or no relics, don't like scrolls, play no scrolls. It sure is easy to complain about everything, maybe if these people thought about it for a second, they can come up with solutions, but i guess that is too much to ask for of some.
So tell me then why players who play made maps with rules aren't doing what you did? It seems to me that they are doing exactly what you did. That being; imposing a rule to make the game more fair. Why mock and ridicule them for the same thing you do? Oh, that's right, they deserve to be mocked because they aren't playing randoms. Grow up Phantom1500. It's easy to make fun of others because they like different things then you. This has a name and it is: prejudice(an opinion, favourable or unfavourable, formed without fair examination of the facts).
Quote:
Random rules were not designed to take away any strategies of any sort and you can see that when you ask more people.
I did better then ask people Phantom, I have played people. I think it takes more thought and strategy to beat Necro/dip on randoms then not. It's very hard to do but I have seen it and done it. Look to the H/R thread to see an example of Lichking doing it. By taking those out you eliminate vast strategies and options, all in the name of fairness. How is that different from a player seeking to make the game more fair by not having log heroes? The same principles and motivations are behind both rules. Quote:
All we took out were the severe unbalancers such as scrolls, diplo, relics, and with time necro when everyone caught on to it. I have never asked for any other rules ever in my games. I have been hit and run, 1st day rushed, re-blinded, 1st day DDoor rushed, had to face 9000 royal griffons cause it was week of them twice and opponent with castle got all to join with no diplo, you name it i saw it, i lost and I won, but in the end i loved every game.
I have had very similiar experiences! And I love this game! I just have a problem with you arbitrarily deciding that your rules are better then anyone elses! That somehow you are the only qualified judge of what does and does not unbalance the game. Did you create this game? If so, then you can do that. But if not, don't go around telling everyone else to think as you. Let people make their own decisions on how to play the game. It is their computer after all.
Phantom1500, you are a great player, better then me no doubt. Heroes is a game of amazing versatility and options, don't insult those that enjoy different styles of games then you, it only demeans you. There are so many ways to play the game, that no one way to play is right. If you claim that then you, and anyone else that says that, are acting like an immature child.
Do I think that hockey is a better game then soccer? Yes, but do I make fun of soccer players? No. Why? It's called respect. Say what you want about Andi Phantom1500, he'll probably beat you at his type of game, just like you'll probably beat him at your type of game. Does that somehow make you better then him? I can't imagine how....
It's only a game. Why get so worked up over it?
jiels(the arguing dolt)
ps. I'm an idiot. And a little too serious. But at least I admit it.
pps. Hey Grandelf, here's some more entertainment for you.
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wiggy_wam
Promising
Famous Hero
local pirate
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posted November 25, 2001 03:29 AM |
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Quote:
For me at least, random maps were an evolution of gaming, I played random maps very rarely season 2 and pretty much enjoyed killing everyone one DW, BM, showdown, you name it i played it and i won most games. Then i realised that playing all these is showing little skill, the true heroes played must be able to fully improvise all strategies on the fly, be able to analyse all situations in that same turn and respond properly. Random maps are the only way you can do that. You don't know where you are, where you are going, what is there and you don't know where the enemy is. How much better can it get? The true test of skill in every way possible. It became that all the made maps were so primitive to me and so brainless that it was a waste of time to even play them. "Blind" maps you say, well they are all the same anyway, you know where your opponent is and no real need to scout or do anything, but sit there and build. You wanna do that, go right ahead, you have fun doing it, great i use to also.
With randoms you don't scout, you die, you don't expand you die, you are not creative, you die. You say randoms are all luck, well that is just flat out stupid, randoms are all creativity and a players ability to improvise. Some show it and become great players others lack it, and they snow. It's similar in society i suppose, some people can make critical decisions, some are button hitting monkeys, so what else is new here.
In fact most these great players mentioned here just got tired of playing regular maps, cause you can surpass that level and be able to deal with absolutely anything thrown at you, like randoms maps enable you to do. Don't get me wrong, it's still fun to do the TOH maps and takes great skill, but just in my opinion, randoms take more. In the end, if there is something you don't like about the generator, tell your opponent about it and eliminate it by a simple map rule. Randoms require non-linear thinking, so if you just like to fight monsters and big battles don't bother, you won't like it. Funny that i made the Tacticians Corner tourney just for those people who like big battles, and the same old ones complained about how unfair it was without ever even trying it.
100% agreed here! My observations and experience support these statements.
but as for Andi and his applesauce gang, I could care less.
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- wiggy ... who has a crush on Rob's models. Well ... the ones his age (18-26)
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jex
Known Hero
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posted November 25, 2001 04:06 AM |
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a couple of comments...
First off randoms can be all luck, but they arent always.
I have played quite a few, one game against Loop 3D. I found 4 utopias all bunched up together for me. I also had a couple griffon consveratories. I consider Loop and myself the about the same skill lvl. Always have great games The map was very unbalanced. The next map we played, the spots were reversed, he had better start and more utopias/nice boxes. I lost. Even with crazy rules implimented the map would have determined the winner.
Stuff like this turns me off from randoms, I prefer an even map. I do however like to come up with stuff on the fly. Last nite I had alot of fun playing Giant War for the first time. I even managed to toast a guy who has played it atlest 5+ times.
The other thing I wanted to say it, Andi's comments are a little off the mark. I dont agree with all his opinions. But I want to point out my personally experience with the 2 players you compare. I played Tim554 twice, both times he killed himself I have played Andi quite a few times. Always a tough and fun game. Andi has toasted me quite a few times. In my experience, there is no comparision between these 2 players.
Btw speed clicking games can be ALOT of fun. Afterall that is why we are here, right?
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