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Heroes Community > Bards Glade Pyre (RPG) > Thread: Roleplaying tips
Thread: Roleplaying tips This thread is 5 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT»
TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted September 26, 2008 08:02 PM

@Ash: then we are left with "everybody beats everybody" and "everyone is equal" and all the other -- now I know this CAN be fun and all that, but what surprises me is that the guy uses arguments like "unoriginal" or "boring" when this is one example of that. Now, I have no problem with people using arguments as long as they hold, but when they use them and later break on it's just a lame excuse to appeal to the "public" better (after all, we all know that when someone writes "that's unoriginal" most people don't like it, so every guy that wants to attract people with his ideas needs to incorporate that argument somehow).

In Terminator 2 for example, should Sarah Connor be as powerful as a Terminator? Or maybe John? The villain is already more powerful. Or in other stories, it's more interesting with a depth.

I know the world might not revovle around one character, but you can't call that unoriginal. I'm not saying that Superman is necessarily fun (even tho it is "original") -- or super-mega-ultra-powerful chars without emotions and all that (they can be crippled emotionally similarly to the "average citizen"). I'm not talking only about POWER either, as it seems most noobs only think of that in stories as well...

what I see is that a party always has a "pre-defined" set of classes and levels (let's say "power"), and usually all specialize in different stuff but are equal on the level. The problem is that this doesn't always lead to a good story. Moreover, why do we always need the same party with all the classes "complementing" each other? Isn't that actually repetitive?

I like tough chars that beat up noobs, when noobs bully them thinking they're tough

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Asheera
Asheera


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
posted September 26, 2008 08:08 PM

Quote:
I like tough chars that beat up noobs, when noobs bully them thinking they're tough
Well I'm sorry to disappoint you but this is the most unoriginal thing actually. Almost everyone (especially noobs) like to make their character beat up everyone in a bar fight, etc
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Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted September 26, 2008 08:11 PM

WRONG FORUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted September 26, 2008 08:18 PM

Quote:
Well I'm sorry to disappoint you but this is the most unoriginal thing actually. Almost everyone (especially noobs) like to make their character beat up everyone in a bar fight, etc
Oh so most movie scripts are made by noobs. I'm tired of all the propaganda spread over the net. Well of course you have evaded most of what I wrote above, not surprised at all. I could have written it in just one phrase as well, because it seems you only take the simplistic approach, so any additional details I keep on writing are useless it seems.

On the other hand, there is no originality in the plain old party stuff or "quest for powerful artifacts" or a quest for power. Like "OMG with that orb I will become a very powerful char!". That's right. Power. That's the noob word. It doesn't have anything to do DIRECTLY with beating up everyone though. This is one of the reasons I find most "classic" RPG stories (in video games!!) boring and virtually the same. All revolve around the same thing.

And you're doing nothing but just spreading the same propaganda I've seen elsewhere which I already addressed. Saying "only noobs do xyz" and all that clearly means you write what you've read somewhere else (or in the article Dagoth posted, which I commented on it). What's the point in telling me that stuff when I already commented ON IT? Seriously.

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DagothGares
DagothGares


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No gods or kings
HC SUPPORTER
posted September 26, 2008 08:32 PM

Well, you can walk the apparent middle ground, like 'the armaments of god' who have seemingly random characters (from which a vampire and a lizard man).

The villain is always the strongest, anyway, because otherwise he wouldn't be a challenge. (main reason why I like villains more ^^)

In freeform we don't have rules that are set in stone, but classes are a good way to prevent characters from shooting fire from their hands and waving around swords of ten feet in length at the same time.

A terminator is flawed as well, but I would never consider RP'ing a terminator, because he has the depth of a spoon. I don't know about you, but I like characters that can think and come up with plans and are flawed. Admittedly, some of my characters are psychos or unoriginal, because they're either:

a) a warlock
b) or a hunter

and anthropocentralism is alright, because you might notice that you don't even care about being an elf after you invested in your fifth roleplay with little to no feedback. And not being a human is totally okay, since they're usually humanoid anyway. At some point I admit that  perfect character in some way can be okay, but thin about your other players, because I haven't met a single person who suffers from: 'Oh-I-have-too-many-participants-syndrome'.

you made another post by the time I'm typing this, so I'll comment on that as well.

The quest is not important, except the motivation that causes for the players. (OK, that was a big statement. Let me clarify: ) What's important in an RPG is the challenges of the DM, the interaction of the characters and your writing skills. Off course, the quest are usually the same: "Fetch artifact X. Beat villain Y underway and face ultimate evil Z in the end", because if we undertake the fantasy route, we would something epic in the end. In the armaments, I'm looking forward to if we ever encounter a drahgon or a warlock or what the evil Lord N.E. Cromancer is up to. I mean, an extremely long fetch quest is the greatest or easiest to come up with to prolong the end of it all.

Original characters... Well, in freeform, you're allowed to do anything you want, but just remember the other participants and it's considered a good sport when you give your smart, powerful mage a beer belly

Or make you knightly charismatic, insanely thick, but these are extremes, off course. A character can be anything it wants. Want to be an green elf? Fine, but that means you have less physical strength, are smaller and provoke xenophobes, but you can surely take the advantages of high agility and incredible eyesight with them. You can't have it all, that's what i'm trying to say and tat's usually a good thing.

I apologise to death if i don't even come close to his arguments, because I usually miss a point or two...
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Asheera
Asheera


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Elite Assassin
posted September 26, 2008 08:43 PM

Quote:
Want to be an green elf? Fine, but that means you have less physical strength, are smaller and provoke xenophobes, but you can surely take the advantages of high agility and incredible eyesight with them. You can't have it all, that's what i'm trying to say and tat's usually a good thing.
I agree fully with you Dagoth, but Death seems to like the "uber character that has it all and can't be hurt" stuff...

Think about the other players, think about the enemies (villains). Do you think it's fun?
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TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted September 26, 2008 08:43 PM

I understand what you mean Dagoth. I never said a Terminator like character is interesting in dialogue or in emotions at all! I meant that he has a cool fighting scenes, of course he's mostly boring for emotional situations and all. I think most RPers here only think about power and how to achieve it in a way, with artifacts, or whatever else. Only about power. That's usually the classical way, repetitive and shall I say, unoriginal?

What I meant actually was that it is good to break up from the classical way of things. A character can just as well smash locks or have rogue-like abilities and STILL be a good fighter -- the classical fighter/rogue/mage/priest party is getting repetitive. Of course such a character can have unfortunate circumstances, or other characters can team up to beat him, or he might fall into a trap, or someone might make him emotionally hurt (e.g: killing someone he cares about). That all should be taken in account, and not just "quest for power by party X where it is formed by... you know".

Villains aren't necessarily always more powerful. Think of Rambo 3 for example -- of course the villain has an entire army but 1-on-1 he's not tougher at all. I know that's not a good example with a Fortress and all.

Still the saying "with great power comes great responsibility" should also come to mind. Powerful characters shouldn't be kiddos that pick on fights for the sole purpose on it. It should be done maturely with responsibility and a good plot, similar to some movie scripts. In Matrix for example, how Neo is weak at first and gets uber at the end, a good example of "levelling up" shall I say? And the others, while tough as well, don't come close. This doesn't mean he is irresponsible and slaughtering everything. After all, "power" comes from wisdom more than from irresponsible behavior, unless you have "slaves" to do the work for you (and call that "power").

Quote:
"Fetch artifact X. Beat villain Y underway and face ultimate evil Z in the end"
and that's the problem...

why an artifact? why should the "power" be justified only with artifacts? (or shall i say, "ancient" artifacts)
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TheDeath
TheDeath


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with serious business
posted September 26, 2008 08:45 PM

Quote:
I agree fully with you Dagoth, but Death seems to like the "uber character that has it all and can't be hurt" stuff...

Think about the other players, think about the enemies (villains). Do you think it's fun?
I already explained that. Yes if done responsible, it's fun. What I fear and don't find fun is the classic style we have met everywhere. Or was that a rhetorical question?
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Asheera
Asheera


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Elite Assassin
posted September 26, 2008 08:48 PM

I'm sure you wouldn't like someone else to pwn your character, but somehow you think you're more "special" than others
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TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted September 26, 2008 08:51 PM

That line of thinking leads to a plot without any considerable twists, the most classical and repetitive plot ever to be conceived, and works mostly in "superhero alliances" so to speak (even though let's say they are not superman!). No drama, no nothing.

And of course if my character wasn't meant to be "uber" then I wouldn't mind him/her being pwned, if the other char is serious and not some kind of joke or something (i've seen attempts at that )

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DagothGares
DagothGares


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No gods or kings
HC SUPPORTER
posted September 26, 2008 09:04 PM

Quote:
A character can just as well smash locks or have rogue-like abilities and STILL be a good fighter


You just described my character in the armaments

But I justified this by giving him the inability to wear heavy clothes and weapons. I admit that everyone should have decent fighting skills, if the RP has some decent fighting in it.

and, if I am to understand you correctly, you say that most people quest for power.

I might say that there at least nine different motives:
-My deity/ lord comanded me so and I can rescue people
-I just like to help out ^^
-I'll help anyone against that evil baron
-I will do this, because it suits me
-I do this, because it seems fun
-I do this, because I've been ordered
-My boss hired me to kill you
-I'm here to kill you all on my own terms
-MUAHAHAHAHA, DIE, SUCKERS

OK, I just realised I bended your argument to just give a random response, let me reiterate:
The thing is that it usually isn't always a quest for power. LHW, the greatest RP thread here is about good killing evil (and vice versa). Both sides are theoretically equal, but the creative people win. It actually has several great plot twists by backstabbers, power-hungry ones and curious people. Some RP's don't involve any fighting at all, but I'd rather forget about those, because I am this way (I like fighting scenes, it gets my adrenaline pumping when that big engine in my head, called fantasy, gets pumping).

In Reign of Chaos, the protagonist *whistles* can beat the big bad villain and a big part of his army, but he can't easily get there and the goons are blocking the way...

Some RPG's are just adventure. last time, I checked one of those RP forums, I saw an RP about a sky ship with pirates. There were three races and I actually one heard about the human one, before.
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OmegaDestroyer
OmegaDestroyer

Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
posted September 26, 2008 09:06 PM

Correction:

Quote:


I might say that there at least ten different motives:
-My deity/ lord comanded me so and I can rescue people
-I just like to help out ^^
-I'll help anyone against that evil baron
-I will do this, because it suits me
-I do this, because it seems fun
-I do this, because I've been ordered
-My boss hired me to kill you
-I'm here to kill you all on my own terms
-MUAHAHAHAHA, DIE, SUCKERS
-Chickens.  


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Wrath and raving I will not stop
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DagothGares
DagothGares


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No gods or kings
HC SUPPORTER
posted September 26, 2008 09:07 PM
Edited by DagothGares at 21:10, 26 Sep 2008.

Off course, and what alignment is Mordock, again?

EDIT: spot on by keksi and OD
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OmegaDestroyer
OmegaDestroyer

Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
posted September 26, 2008 09:09 PM

Nuts.
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Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down

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Keksimaton
Keksimaton


Promising
Supreme Hero
Talk to the hand
posted September 26, 2008 09:09 PM

How about: "The Quest to Clean up the Kitchen" ?

The setting: The Great Mother of the people has gotten tired of her children never doing any chores and now has declared that those who do not help her to clean up the kitchen shall not recieve their allowance. Rumors of a horrible punishment upon those who do not help to clean up the kitchen loom in the playgrounds... Many brave adventurers and heroes have embarked on The Quest to Clean up the Kitchen and you are one of them!

That is a bit more original , but I think I have missed the point .
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DagothGares
DagothGares


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Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
HC SUPPORTER
posted June 14, 2009 02:56 PM

"You all meet in a tavern" by David Morgan-Mar


Quote:
"You all meet in a tavern..."

How many campaigns have begun with these immortal words? Probably too many. This conceit has been used so often to introduce PCs to one another and begin a campaign that it has become a cliche.

Characters meeting for the first time at the beginning of a story is a classic device in literature, cinema, and television. These sources give inspiration for vastly more possibilities than meeting in a tavern, however. Another approach is to assume that the characters are known to each other before the campaign begins, either by reputation only, acquaintance, long friendship, family ties, or even rivalries.

Either way, a campaign has to begin somehow, usually by gathering the PCs together and giving them a common goal. Here then are some different ways of assembling characters, either strangers, friends, allies, or enemies, into a group with a common motivation which can be the foundation of a campaign. These are deliberately vague, and can be developed in many different directions by considering them in the context of a desired genre.

   * The PCs are members of a trade caravan. They could be merchants, or employed by the merchants as guards, animal handlers, freight handlers, craftsmen, cooks, book-keepers, scouts, entertainers, or snows. They might also be family members of others in the caravan, or people travelling for another reason (pilgrims, diplomats) and staying with the caravan for safety.
   * The PCs are assembled at the reading of a will of a distant relative or a friend. Some PCs may thus be related, although perhaps only by marriage, while some might be strangers known only to the deceased.
   * The PCs are passengers on a commercial long-distance vehicle - a train, ship, plane, or spaceship are some possibilities.
   * The PCs are drafted from various prison facilities to form a special ops suicide squad - with the promise of a pardon if successful, of course.
   * A mutual enemy of the PCs drops hints about or outright invites them all to some event or location. The PCs show up and negotiate an alliance, probably to get them out of the trap set by the enemy.
   * The PCs are members of a small village. Some local disturbance or uprising forces them to band together for the sake of the village.
   * The PCs went to school or university together. Something happens at the reunion. Or someone (or something) from their old school days comes back to haunt them all.
   * The PCs knew each other long ago and made some sort of pact which becomes significant when NPC members of the group start dying.
   * The PCs knew each other in a past life (or several past lives). They become aware of this and seek each other out to find out why, banding together when they learn the Awful Truth.
   * The PCs are already an established group of "troubleshooters for hire" or "traders looking for a cargo". Simply begin the campaign with the introduction of a significant client.
   * The PCs are new recruits to a cause - either an organized force such as the police or military, an organization such as a trader's guild or environmental lobby group, or a company. They may be assigned to work together or work on a single problem from different sides.
   * The PCs all answer an advertisement seeking people with certain skills. An exploratory or scientific expedition is the likely result, but people might also advertise for guards, escorts, business professionals, or entertainers for other purposes.
   * The PCs are press-ganged into service on a ship, or in a military unit somewhere far from home.
   * The PCs know each other by correspondence (carrier pigeon, pony express, mail, Internet, crystal balls) about a shared interest. Something threatens that interest, and they band together to combat it.
   * The PCs simply wake up near each other, with no memory of who they are or what they are doing here (wherever that may be). For a twist, maybe they remember each other, but not themselves.
   * The PCs are all incarcerated in a prison, either legitimately or arbitrarily. Or they might all break out or be released from a prison and have to work together to survive outside.
   * The PCs are captured and used as slaves. A variant sees them captured and studied as specimens, either by a known sentient species or aliens. Or maybe they are to be used as food.
   * The PCs have just graduated from school or university and decide to go into some sort of business together.
   * A natural disaster or hostile attack strikes an area or town. The PCs seem to be the only survivors, at least initially.
   * The PCs all share a mutual friend, who invites them to a party or other social event.
   * The PCs are members of a secret society, either religious, mystical, political, or scientific. They work on a mission to further the society's ends, and may end up questioning those ends.
   * The PCs work for a volunteer organization (militia, disaster relief, humanitarian, environmentalist, etc) and are assigned to work on a mission together.
   * The PCs are rivals in some sort of competition. A cross-country race or a treasure hunt are classic examples. Perhaps they cut deals and form a grudging alliance to beat other rivals, or maybe an external threat forces them to cooperate.
   * The PCs are the significant crew of a new mission of exploration and discovery, either assigned from the military or recruited for the purpose.
   * The PCs are a retired group of troubleshooters. Their arch-enemy escapes from prison/slavery/stasis/another dimension and they must reform to fight him one last time.
   * The rest of the world is going insane, or is being abducted or replaced by aliens, or they have simply vanished with no explanation, and the PCs seem to be the only ones unaffected.

Or the PCs could simply meet in a tavern...

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Mytical
Mytical


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Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
posted June 16, 2009 08:39 AM

Or they could recieve a mysterious package with a Map and some items .  Here is my main problem with "Ex Machina" characters.  They are BORING.  If nothing can hurt them, and they win every time, what is the point?  I've given up soo many of these type of characters it is crazy.  Just because I had GM's that liked making characters insanely powerful.

Balustria Kreights - Cursed by ALL the gods to be pretty much invulnerable.  Yawn.

Merlin Kreights - A powerful dwarven warrior who walked into the 'source of all magic' and could cast pretty much any spell of any level as often as he wanted.  Oh and he had an amulet that basically gave him a 'second life' as it contained an immortal soul of another powerful sorcerer that would take over his body if he 'died' until he could be returned to life. He was a 6' tall dwarf with a battle axe as big as he was. Boring.

Kiki Toshioto - A half-venetian goddess of Ninjitsu.  She was really interesting when she first started..got her arm tore off by a wolf (ie got her hinny kicked)..but now?  I stripped her of the vast majority of her abilities when I use her as a NPC.

Yes each person should be different, and even varying levels of 'power'.  But an almighty godlike being that can do it all?  Just boring to tears.

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Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted June 16, 2009 08:46 AM

I imagine that Deus-ex-Machinae are the only solution if you've stuck role-played yourself.

I also use Deus-Ex-Machinae, but these are at least defeateable. They just happen to be more powerfull that the Protagonists... at least untill now (Imagine Bosses like Irenicus or Sarevok in Baldur's Gate)
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Mytical
Mytical


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
posted June 16, 2009 08:51 AM

Villians should be more powerful (generally) then the group.  That is what makes it challenging.  However, power comes in many forms.  Including intelligence.  Escape plans, ambushes, spies within the group..

Keep in mind that a Villian may not be a ancient Lich with unfathomable power, but maybe the leader of the thieves guild.  Or maybe even that kindly old cleric...
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DagothGares
DagothGares


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No gods or kings
HC SUPPORTER
posted June 16, 2009 08:53 AM

Lex, wouldn't the plural be 'dei ex machina'?

I like the RPG when it has this simple charm of it of being part of a true vagabond/ adventure party. I mean, why some of the overpowered choose to quest for some amulet, instead of ruling the nortthern hemisphere is baffling at times.
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