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Heroes Community > Tournament of Honor > Thread: - New Map: Twilight World -
Thread: - New Map: Twilight World - This thread is 6 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · NEXT»
Zilonite
Zilonite


Famous Hero
posted August 24, 2008 06:55 PM
Edited by Elvin at 10:55, 10 Sep 2009.

- New Map: Twilight World -

Hope you will have some fun here!

Current version of the map: 1.9

Twilight World (ver. 1.9)

Twilight World - HEROSTYLE

(zip file contains map itself+detailed Guide to Twilight World).

ATTENTION: In order to avoid any problems, remove Twilight World from your Map folder, if you want to play other maps. Also it is suggested to remove other maps from Maps folder before playing Twilight World.


Basic info about map

Size: 176x176 (large), underground only
Number of players: 2

Map by Zilo&Signe

Other credits:
- Fiur (helped out with his creative spirit in Balrogs painting&helped me to get a grip on programming basics for adding new creatures)
- Radar (creation of Runelords)
- ArchWarlock&Ogo (concept of "megadwelling")

Also my gratitude for comments on and/or playtesting of earlier versions of the map to Strider, Sq, Fiur, Insatiable and HC in general.

Minimap


Concept of the map
Source of inspiration for the map is Moria from Lord of the Rings. Main distinctive features of the map:
unusual layout of the map with some new approaches to creeping;
many opponent controlled garnisons;
special creatures that you won't face on other maps.

Gameplay
Final battle might take place somewhere from week 5 in the middle (with very agressive and rush-style playing from both opponents) till week 8+ (with no-hurry and defense oriented game). Map has very harsh and challanging beginning (~ first two weeks), especially resources-wise. Later on things are getting a bit easier with lots of development possibilities. Although each player has only one town, there are many dwellings on the map, so you can expect armies sizes like on 2 or 3 town maps, especially if both players are not rushers and the game lasts longer (Guide file has special map that shows where which dwelling is).

Banned heroes/spells
Main trend here is to ban as minimum things as possible and leave everything to agreement between players.
Only banned heroes are Wyngal and Haggash. Although there are arguably several other very good heroes, any other restrictions are left to agreement between players.
Only banned spells are Divene Vengence and Instant Travel.

Artifacts
There is a great variety of artifacts on the map, but during first weeks of the game you will see only few and getting the most powerfull artifacts is no easy task. Random relicts are few and will be available only very late in the game (unless you are playing Dungeon or Academy with Artifact Merchant in the town). There are a few banned artifacts and some preset artifacts that will appear always on particualar places (full list of those artifacts is in the Guide to Twilight file that comes together with the map). All those things are done with main aim to ensure equal gameplay and to reduce moment of luck.

Sim turns
I spent quite some time with this issue and result should be satisfactory. Simulteneous turns will last very long - in most games until the very end, when heroes of both players meet.

Special Creatures
Map contains two special creatures - Balrogs and Runelords.

Balrogs
By Fiur&Zilo



Creature level: 8

45
32
70 - 95
8
13
1300

Elemental. Large Creature. Immune to Fire. Strike and Return. Incorporeal. Stormstrike. Whip Stike. Hexing Attack. Magic proof 25%.

Initially I planned those dudes for single-player version of the map. Yet during tests I had soooo much fun with those snows that I added Balrogs to multiplayer version of the map, too. Remember the feeling in HOMM3, when you saw Azure Dragons on the map?  Well, with Balrogs this feeling is back!

Runelords
By Radar



Creature level: 5

10
9
9 - 13
3
10
65
7
Living Creature. Shooter. Immune to Earth. No Range Penalty. Caster.

Spellbook (total mana of 12):

Mana 5, mastery Advanced


Mana 6, mastery Expert

My favourite creation of "new-creature guru" Radar (this is original Runelord thread, I recommend to check out his other creations as well )

Design
And, last but not least, special emphasis was made by Signe on design part of the map








As map has undergone substantial development during the year ot its existance, here is the change log from version to version:
version 1.1:
- added Fiur`s improved design of Balrogs
- fixed 2 bugs found by travelling_oz
version 1.2:
- fixed sylvanna tree bug on blue side found by Fraudatio
version 1.3:
- increased Balrogs power-rating;
- very slightly tweaked garnizon guards to encourage AI;
- gave AI few other bonuses.
- fixed one bug that was created by 1.2 version (one of the garnizons in 1.2 was neutral instead of player controlled)
- slightly changed Balrogs animation (tnx to great advise from Fiur)
version 1.4:
- very marginally increased guards to the center (Titans/Wolves and Stormlords/Air Elems)
- added 200 assasins, 400 goblins and 2 Black Dragons to lower center garnnizon;
- added 300 imps to upper center garnnizon;
- removed 2 balrogs from ultimate center garnizon
- doubled amount of guards in Staff of Netherworld garnizon.
- added 1 gold mine near sands mega-dwell and 1 gold mine near mega-dwell in tunnels;
- 1 or 2 gold piles near all mega-dwells and in the center near joining Death Knights will give 4000 gold each.
- decreased defense of Balrogs by 5
- added 4 always-joining sprites nearby Balrogs in home area.
- reduced numbers of joining Balrogs in the center from 3-4 to 2-3
- increased number of joining Death Knights in the center from 5-12 to 5-17
- replaced Ring of Banishment with Random Minor Artifact
- added magic well to home island;
- replaced prebuild lvl 2 dwell with prebuild marketplace
- Runelords, Air Elems, Water Elems, Wolves, Mummies and Phonixes can appear in places of random monsters of respective level
version 1.5:
- banned "Snatch" perk from map;
- reduced goblins weekly growth from 25 to 20;
- replaced prebuild marketplace with prebuild Mage Guild lvl 1
- some movement correction to maximize equality between both sides;
- some more garnizon tweaking.
version 1.6:
- most late-game garnizons are way harder here
- "island" pixies and treants garnizon is reduced (to leave open option for real bravehearts take it out on week 2)
- removed Urghat from the map
version 1.7:
- added 2 sky-daughters and replaced 5 gobs with 35 gob-trapers in mine zone garnizon
- changed creature growth rate per week: sylvan hunters - 1 (from 7 to 6) and dungeon riders +1 (from 4 to 5)
- banned Ythlin and Helmar

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fiur
fiur


Promising
Supreme Hero
Map Creator
posted August 24, 2008 08:16 PM

got an even better looking balrog Zilo... I give ya when you get online @ msn...  
____________
Hack and Slash....

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Zilonite
Zilonite


Famous Hero
posted August 25, 2008 01:48 PM

Got it, nice touches on nuances Will update Balrogs appearence when there will be some more comments/wishes for 1.1 version of the map.

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nevermind
nevermind


Famous Hero
posted August 25, 2008 02:42 PM

..

HOLY CRAP

Balrogs are insane , Is it even possible to beat one?

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Zilonite
Zilonite


Famous Hero
posted August 25, 2008 03:57 PM

Of course, you will not face hordes of those on map. Hehe, they are nasty, really nasty But extreme fun, too - I felt rush of adrenaline even playing against AI

Results of my own tests were something like this: usually with most towns it takes ~week 5 hero/army to take out 5 of those nuke-heads without major bleeding. Yet they have their weak spots as well, so in special cases it should be possible to take them out earlier and easier.

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Strider_HL
Strider_HL


Famous Hero
posted August 25, 2008 09:21 PM

The master post has achieved new hights in the area of map presentation. I just opened the map and almost didn't recognize it - fine candidate for Mis August of Extreme Makeover Hopefully, many players will share my excitement and this masterpiece will become another cult map

Indeed, Fraudatio, bring Zilo back to TOH by playing him on Twilight World

P.s. The map looks way better in game mode than in editor!

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LightCrusader
LightCrusader


Hired Hero
Death before Dishonour
posted August 26, 2008 06:56 PM

Cant wait to also try this map and see those Balrogs, indeed, they are like nukes

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traveling_oz
traveling_oz

Tavern Dweller
posted August 27, 2008 03:04 PM

Great map! Thanks alot.

2 problems i found:

the artifacts in the garrison with the (chains/a scroll/???) are inaccessable.

the portal on the red island with the tier 6 dwelling transports you and your boat home!


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Warmonger
Warmonger


Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
posted August 27, 2008 04:06 PM

I've just had a quick look at it and the design is formidable, both from graphical and strategical point of view. It may become my favourite map very soon

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Zilonite
Zilonite


Famous Hero
posted August 27, 2008 07:12 PM
Edited by Zilonite at 07:29, 28 Aug 2008.

Glad to see compliments about map! If somebody has tried out Balrogs, post some comments or replays, don't be shy

2 travelling_oz: Tnx for pointing out those bugs! Will fix them immediately and make 1.1 version of the map right away (as this scroll is quite important).

Version 1.1 is here or at ToH Map page (updated first post, too)

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LightCrusader
LightCrusader


Hired Hero
Death before Dishonour
posted August 28, 2008 04:30 PM

after playing it with AI

Heres my thoughts and oppinions: 1)this map is great and i love it, especially because it balances game (i.e. certain artis in certain places in both sides) and everything doesnt depend on luck so much than usually
2) I played with necro and few mistakes i made was not building resource silo and building wraiths before ghosts , which  used all my mercury and i just had to wait until i could continue building and finish citadel and castle , which is essential in this map to get them early . Because this leads to earlier breaking through especially beacuse of those numberous dwells.
Then my second mistake was that i didnt take down the lv 7 in front of the two way monolith , that leads to more dwellings again. I just broke through the garrison and went quite some time before I returned and took those dwells, which in overall slowed down my growth.

3) playing with AI is SO EASY no matter what difficulty you are playing. Because AI just suicides himself all the timee trying to take the garrison and those crazy balrogs that leads to all tomes and 3 lvl up trees. Although i made once also the same mistake, the computer told moderate and i hadnt fought them before so i went for it and got seriously trashed. Balrog wouldnt be so powerful without the storm strike, this kills just all!
But i had lots of luck in killing them . The terrain was just perfect, it blocked most of the ways he could reach me and the one place where he managed to get through , i blocked it with crystal and added lots of mines (exp summoning magic made fire trap pretty powerful) . At the same time it hit him with my skel archers and liches as much as i can and put arcane armor on my wraiths , juts for case that if balrog breaks through he will not do so much damage. Lost only 30 zombies i think
4)Oh and one thing , if the oneway portals could be two way , then this would make logistics less important and save perk for something greater and overall , makes the game more fun and gives more chance to thsoe who jsut donbt have room for logistics. So if you could chaneg this , then this map would be even better and saves also time atleast in my oppinion.


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LightCrusader
LightCrusader


Hired Hero
Death before Dishonour
posted August 28, 2008 04:31 PM

Sorry for my bad grammar , was in a hurry:S and got to go now

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Zilonite
Zilonite


Famous Hero
posted August 28, 2008 05:24 PM

Hehe, nice to see so much emotions coming along with Balrogs If human opponent will control them, should be even more fun

Regarding AI - unfortunately, Artifcial stupidity indeed reaches new tops here and AI is not giving even slightest challange I'm working right now on separate single-player version of the map...

Regarding two-way telereports - Sq made similar suggestion some time ago, so it should be good idea I will think about the way how to implement this..

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traveling_oz
traveling_oz

Tavern Dweller
posted August 28, 2008 06:14 PM
Edited by traveling_oz at 18:18, 28 Aug 2008.

I played on necro too from both sides on heroic. With either mass slow or attack+battle frenzy, i could take the fornt garrison at the start of week 2 and the level 7's (as long as they weren't storm titans!) at the portal and the single balrog inside. Just split 3 single ghosts off, box your skellies in a wide squre on 3 sides in the corner and it can be beaten!
Then probably break through the gate to the middle area at the end of week two. Then probably start on the middle area with the lake about 3~4.

Yes, the AI suiciding is annoying allthough once i played the ai made it through to the middle area, think it was acadmey that time?

About the logistics/portals, i kinda like that part of the map. Maps with water and land are much more fun! Could i suggest you put a 2 way portal between the two different landing areas (Where you get to the middle of the map. 1 has a small garrison, the other titans and wolves)? That way, you wouldn't have to take out the titans and wolves to save a long walk! And you would still have to ferry your troops across the water.

After all, If you could just portal back and forth to your town, it would kinda make the whole purpose of the water completely redundant.






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Zilonite
Zilonite


Famous Hero
posted August 28, 2008 07:10 PM

Quote:
I played on necro too from both sides on heroic. With either mass slow or attack+battle frenzy, i could take the fornt garrison at the start of week 2 and the level 7's (as long as they weren't storm titans!) at the portal and the single balrog inside. Just split 3 single ghosts off, box your skellies in a wide squre on 3 sides in the corner and it can be beaten!
Then probably break through the gate to the middle area at the end of week two. Then probably start on the middle area with the lake about 3~4.

Hehe, indeed even Balrog can be tricked with some good plan in the pocket Also very good time line! If you can make it to the central lake by week 4, playing on heroic, that's superb play!

Quote:
Could i suggest you put a 2 way portal between the two different landing areas (Where you get to the middle of the map. 1 has a small garrison, the other titans and wolves)? That way, you wouldn't have to take out the titans and wolves to save a long walk! And you would still have to ferry your troops across the water.

Can you explain it a bit? One telereport is near pathfinders boots and second telereport before or after the titans?

Quote:
After all, If you could just portal back and forth to your town, it would kinda make the whole purpose of the water completely redundant.

Yep, thats exactly the reason, why there are one way portals on the map right now!

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LightCrusader
LightCrusader


Hired Hero
Death before Dishonour
posted August 28, 2008 07:14 PM

Maybe you are right about the portals thing, but about taking the agrrison I just had a bad luck in the magic guild and i preffered taking the triple ballista, (played with Kaspar) because i ahve had many games with him and if i dont take it in the beginning , i will never get it again, the skill setup just gives me the plague tent
And after the ballista i got battle frenzy and other stuff and didnt manage to get expert or even advanced dark magic. Then there was nothning left to kill and i had to wait:S

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traveling_oz
traveling_oz

Tavern Dweller
posted August 29, 2008 05:29 AM
Edited by traveling_oz at 05:40, 29 Aug 2008.

I would put  the one way portal on the travellers boots side, just after you break through the garrison maybe and guarded by a stack of level 7. Then the outlet should be just next to the titans on the middle lake side. That way it would make the 5day journey from the boots(without logistics) to the middle lake into 2days, where you really need to be resupplied!

Yes, a little luck is invovled. A crap artifact, crap spells and no dark magic/attack skills offered would make it quite hard!

I'd say with Kasper, you could do quite well. Did you kill everything in the first week lightcrusader? I made sure i took advan nec as soon as it was offered then stuck to level 1's until i ran out of DE then stopped. Made sure i built necro spire and then took out the thunder thanes and beserkers in week 2 for a nice little troop boost.

I think on this map, ballsita is too expensive to start with unless you get Havez in your tavern. $1000 for blacsmith plus $4500? for ballista is a lot of money and there isn't much cash around until you get to the middle.
Also Lightcrusader, I don't take summoning magic with either Lucretia or Kasper since the new creture upgrades. I keep a good sized stack of master liches for raising the dead. Saves an extra skill slot!


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Warmonger
Warmonger


Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
posted August 29, 2008 07:49 AM

Quite simply, what about NCF version of Balrogs?

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LightCrusader
LightCrusader


Hired Hero
Death before Dishonour
posted August 29, 2008 02:09 PM
Edited by LightCrusader at 14:11, 29 Aug 2008.

Yes, i did clear out the lv ones and did all the things you suggested in the first time I played it. Now i have played it three times and the sec and third were much better, cleaned the garrison with no losses in the beginning of the second week. And i like summoning, fire warriors and summoning phoenix can really determine the outcome of the battle.

And  warmonger, those balrogs are just magnificient , and deadly!
You can easily take the 1 balrog with wraiths, but 5 balrogs is too much and the calculating system is not trustworthy, it may say you, moderate but it beats the **** out of you with 5 balrogs. Thats why the AI is suiciding himself all the time .

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Zilonite
Zilonite


Famous Hero
posted August 29, 2008 04:59 PM
Edited by Zilonite at 16:59, 29 Aug 2008.

Quote:
I would put  the one way portal on the travellers boots side, just after you break through the garrison maybe and guarded by a stack of level 7. Then the outlet should be just next to the titans on the middle lake side. That way it would make the 5day journey from the boots(without logistics) to the middle lake into 2days, where you really need to be resupplied!

Got it this time However problem with such portal will be that you can break very early (if its stack of lvl 7, its week 2 break ) with your main hero to the lake side avoiding stormlords/air elems and titans/wolves. Of course, in weeks 2 or 3 noone can take out lake garnisons, but even Sunken Temple alone is huge reward on map with almost no random relicts. Therefore i'm afraid that such portal will turn map into mad rush to middle and players will not explore most part of the map.

I was thinking rather about adding such portal with exit in front of titans (on magic well/boarder guard side). This would add option to save some days, if somebody is willing to go for titans/wolves right away from mine zone and not to spend time on getting back home and only then going for titans/wolves...

Quote:
Quite simply, what about NCF version of Balrogs?

Of course, I don't mind if they would become NCF based or if somebody will use Balrogs on their maps (even more, feel free to ask me for some help how to add them to your map).

However, there are few issues:
1)i'm damn lazy person, not sure that I will force myself to make/add those file that are needed for NCF ;
2)Balrogs were basically made specifically for this map to add some more Moria feeling (thats why there are also goblins in Balrogs garnizon. They are lvl 8 creatures so they won't be much of a use for NCF, which focuses on adding standart creatures of lvl 1-7 that can appear as random monsters.

And, dudes, did I say that I feel happy when there are some who already played it several times?

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