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TheDeath
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posted January 01, 2009 07:01 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 19:02, 01 Jan 2009.
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Unfortunately, I don't have access to the data and hidden objectives because, well, we'll have to listen to the propaganda spread by the 'official' Israel sources (and political leaders).
So another speculation.
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Salamandre
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posted January 01, 2009 10:41 PM |
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Quote:
You tell me, then. Would Hamas stop if Israel did nothing?
What about Israel withdrawing to the borders it held before 1967? Demolishing illegally based settlements in the area and ending the Gaza blockade?
That's what Palestinians ask for peace.
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mvassilev
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posted January 01, 2009 10:51 PM |
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That'd be nice, but I don't think that would be enough for Hamas.
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Salamandre
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posted January 01, 2009 11:05 PM |
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That wouldn't be nice, but right. Nuance. And you don't have a clue about how Hamas will react.
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antipaladin
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posted January 02, 2009 12:22 AM |
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it is very easy to seggest but what about the people live there,are there going to be and why should we if we won the war of 67? im gona ask the extreamist virsion that is clearly not my opinion but others might have it: why not kill them all and get away with it?
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mvassilev
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posted January 02, 2009 12:30 AM |
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Salamandre:
Hamas wants all of Israel's territory. Not just the currently Palestinian areas.
Antipaladin:
So, after WWII, would the victorious allies have had the right to move all the Germans to, say, Schleswig-Holstein and Brandenburg, forcing a lot of them to leave all the other parts of Germany? I say no.
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Salamandre
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posted January 02, 2009 01:11 AM |
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Anti, that war wasn't won by Israel. When Israel receives 6 millions dollars/day from USA because the Zionist lobby infiltrated all the money/power institutions then nothing it does is its own merit. The Palestinians were cheated and every inch of ground Israel own belongs in reality to USA. The settlements are illegal so yes they should be moved back. Keeping them will lead to more and more victims from both sides. Is it worth?
Actually Israel is USA's puppet in middle west, for geopolitical and financial purposes. There are at least 15 UN resolutions which urge Israel to quit this illegally acquired land, all 15 blocked by USA veto. How strange...
I do not deny your right to defend and I don't believe Palestinians being saints neither. But they are hopeless and weakened, and this "cheating" war takes away any sympathy the whole world could have for Israeli's victims.
@Mvas
Indeed Hamas wanted all Israel territory, but this is story now. They understood that Israel is invincible as long it is fully supported by USA so they rectified their demands. Actually all that they ask for peace is what I mentioned above.
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antipaladin
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posted January 02, 2009 01:18 AM |
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Salamadre,iam not trying to morally ligallise and justfy the actions of israel,this is not why i madethis thread. however i don't think we can fight back but go easy on them,and yes we are USA agent here which imo,is not something to be shamed off. in Reality there are few Super Power countrys,Russia,China USA,and maybe one or more eurpe large and rich. The russians dont care who tey sell Guns for,as long as they are paid. and we have nothing much in common with china so.. 
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mvassilev
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posted January 02, 2009 01:22 AM |
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Salamandre:
Hamas cannot be dealt with nicely. Any organization that advocates the destruction of an entire nation is not worth dealing with. Hamas only understands three words: bullet, bomb, and rocket. US support has nothing to do with it.
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Salamandre
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posted January 02, 2009 01:30 AM |
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My belief is that this war can't be ended by arms, unless you kill them all, until the last child. Israel should reconsider his refuse to all Hamas's demands, and learn to give also, which it never did.
After all Hamas is a legal government, and won the elections without cheating. If one day, palestinians had jobs, dreams, projects,freedom, they may reconsider their options when elections come.
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antipaladin
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posted January 02, 2009 01:47 AM |
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and learn to give also, which it never did.
False! Sinai?
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Salamandre
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posted January 02, 2009 02:02 AM |
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Good point! It lead to the peace with Egypt. What about doing the same with Palestinians, if it works?
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Geny
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posted January 02, 2009 11:10 AM |
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We did exit the Gaza strip... and look where it brought us...
On another note however, it's not like we're against diplomatic action and certain agreements, we're against diplomatic action and certain agreements with an organization that doesn't agree with Israel's right to exist and shoots missiles at us.
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antipaladin
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posted January 02, 2009 03:30 PM |
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Quote:
Good point! It lead to the peace with Egypt. What about doing the same with Palestinians, if it works?
Because hamas aren't left.
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TheDeath
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posted January 02, 2009 03:45 PM |
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Quote:
we're against diplomatic action and certain agreements with an organization that doesn't agree with Israel's right to exist and shoots missiles at us.
Since I don't want to go into propaganda, I'll say what's on the back of my head. Funny thing is that, while they are the "OMG bastards" who want Israel to not exist, yet anyone has reasons to be pissed off -- and in fact Israel expanded its borders in the 'meantime' (that means 50 or so years), so you can imagine it made them even more pissed. It is funny, because it's like someone saying "X is a virus it must not exist!" and the virus proves that point if it spreads further.
(I'm not saying Israeli are virus, it was just an analogy based on how some Palestinians perceive it, for example, not me, since I'm just figuring out why they are so pissed )
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mvassilev
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posted January 02, 2009 04:15 PM |
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GenieLord
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posted January 02, 2009 05:57 PM |
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TheDeath
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posted January 02, 2009 06:01 PM |
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No offense but you can imagine stuff like that for Palestinian civilians too.
"Sign the petition so the government can do everything it can to stop the missiles" -- how about nuking them?
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xerox
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posted January 02, 2009 06:02 PM |
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So?
More innocnet palestians die then israelians.
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GenieLord
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posted January 02, 2009 06:08 PM |
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Quote:
No offense but you can imagine stuff like that for Palestinian civilians too.
But only in times of war, not in times of peace, and not for 7 years.
Quote:
So?
More innocnet palestians die then israelians.
We kill the people who work to kill us. We try to reduce the numbers of the people around them who get killed. We tell the people which are around before we bomb a place (in case it hides weapons).
They shoot to all the directions, no matter who they kill. Today they hit a kindergarten in Ashkelon. Luckily it was empty.
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And ignore the petition thing at the end. Kind of pointless.
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