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Heroes Community > Tavern of the Rising Sun > Thread: Harry Potter - Cynical insight
Thread: Harry Potter - Cynical insight This thread is 12 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 · «PREV / NEXT»
Shadow123
Shadow123

Tavern Dweller
posted April 11, 2009 08:28 AM

Well, you are right aboout that [that i shouldn't be effected by critics and so, and I really don't, I just said your'e ruin your own fun], but yet, I just can't stand the pettiness. I mean, come on, shut up, and enjoy your book.

By the way, I'm not such a fan of harry poter. I do like it, but it's not on my top 5, let's say it that way.

And another thing, I looked at the "fanboy" thing, and there is nothing that describe my messages here.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted April 11, 2009 06:24 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 18:25, 11 Apr 2009.

Scared to death what your response would be if I dared to criticize your favorite book, then

Quote:
And another thing, I looked at the "fanboy" thing, and there is nothing that describe my messages here.


Now I see why you like Harry Potter - you're missing the obvious. Everywhere.

Quote:
I mean, come on, shut up


Why don't you try that good advice on yourself?

You can't stand critique? Don't read it. What do you expect from a thread named "cynical insight", Rowling-praise? There is enough of that crap already around the net. Why do you go through that weird sort of sado-masochism, reading through stuff you hate? ("petty critique") ?

anyway guys, again sorry for the delay, couldn't get HC to work for all day.




Phoenix: in case that wasn't obvious: I wanted HP to die at the end of book 7, obviously. Not book 1.

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phoenixreborn
phoenixreborn


Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
posted April 11, 2009 08:24 PM

All I'm trying to say is that you may as well go back and take out the phrase "I enjoyed the book" out of your writing if all you can muster up when asked why is "it has good atmosphere".  One line isn't enough when you've written five paragraphs of plot holes.  Plot is important but it isn't the only element.

If you fail to understand why children like Harry Potter and why parent's want their children to read it, it is to your own detriment as a writer.

Why are you writing your own (carefully plotted) book then? For your ego? You know, we have a writing thread, maybe you could share some.

And by the way, my question about the moral of the story is free to be answered by anyone, Doomforge isn't the only participant in this thread.  I have my idea but I'd rather see what others think first.
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Shadow123
Shadow123

Tavern Dweller
posted April 11, 2009 08:40 PM

Quote:

Quote:
I mean, come on, shut up

Why don't you try that good advice on yourself?


I didn't told you to shut up, I told you to shut up and enjoy your book. There is a great different between these two.
I mean, if you liked the book [and you even said you did], great. you don't need to go try looking the defects to ruin your own fun.
It's just pettiness. God-damn pettiness.
By the way, all you did was to say to me to shut up, and to not post a replay if i didn't like it. you didn't said anything in the subject I was talking about. talking about fanboyism.


And I read this thing because some moron thought it was funny and sent me a link.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted April 11, 2009 08:44 PM

Ooh we have a troll amongst us Take it easy please.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


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posted April 12, 2009 01:25 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 13:30, 12 Apr 2009.

Phoenix: It's actually pretty easy to be able to like something while still being aware of the flaws. Think of how good the book would be if Rowling put some effort in the logic - from the very beginning.


Quote:
If you fail to understand why children like Harry Potter and why parent's want their children to read it, it is to your own detriment as a writer.


I never said I don't understand it. Children usually don't care for plotholes one tiny bit.

Quote:
Why are you writing your own (carefully plotted) book then? For your ego? You know, we have a writing thread, maybe you could share some.


Because I feel creative and I don't want to waste it

Because I sincerely think the plot is pretty original.

Because it feels damn good.

And no, I don't know how to write good stuff in English, and what is the point of me posting a story in Polish here if nobody will understand me anyway ?

Quote:
And by the way, my question about the moral of the story is free to be answered by anyone, Doomforge isn't the only participant in this thread.  I have my idea but I'd rather see what others think first.


I must have missed your question, can't recall you asking. oh whatever, I'll re-read the posts again and see what can I tell you




As for you, Shadow123, I don't ruin my fun pointing the flaws, it's the exact opposite. And not being able to STAND people pointing out flaws of something we like without giving reasonable counter-arguments IS fanboyism. Sorry So instead of trolling, give me arguments. Am I wrong? No? If you can't, then I'm just right, and you can't help it. Live with it and take it easy ^_^

Besides, you make no sense at all, since when a RIDICULOUSLY DUMB PLOT is PETTY? It's the damn BACKBONE of every book. Would you like, say, LOTR, if they were trying to destroy a big pink dildo instead of the one ring? It would leave a bad taste in mouth. Bad plot, plotholes.. they all do.

Happy easter folks, next part coming around the evening.
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DagothGares
DagothGares


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
posted April 12, 2009 01:50 PM
Edited by DagothGares at 13:53, 12 Apr 2009.

Yeah, plot is the story... In children's books...
Remember the turns and strong points alice in wonderland made?
Or what about every book that develops the psychology of their character (the frog prince, everything is zestfully imagined) (damnit, I read strange books) (the frog prince wasn't a fairy tale, it was about the life of a cynic)?
Silence over Tanger didn't have a plot, unless you consider 'last day of a patriarch' a plot and that thing won a lot of literary awards.

The message, the characters, the symbols, the development of characters and the imagination are things I'd love to have, if sacrifice of the plot was the only thing in beween them.
EDIT: Better examples: Jane Eyre and the raven!
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Doomforge
Doomforge


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posted April 12, 2009 01:53 PM

I still think it would be a way more "serious" book if Rowling tried harder. She definitely could.

It' laziness. Like giving the character powers to fly, than making him die because he was thrown out of the window.

Laziness.

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Cepheus
Cepheus


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Far-flung Keeper
posted April 12, 2009 02:00 PM

Yeah, well... it looks like laziness pays.

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DagothGares
DagothGares


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No gods or kings
posted April 12, 2009 02:02 PM
Edited by DagothGares at 14:02, 12 Apr 2009.

Ogh, I hate that argument!
Twilight pays as well, yet it's a book about the author's unfulfilled stalker fantasies!
We shouldn't encourage this kind of behaviour!
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Doomforge
Doomforge


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posted April 12, 2009 02:04 PM

Quote:
Yeah, well... it looks like laziness pays.


Can you believe the author of this song is rich and famous in Poland?

Looks like crap pays too.
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Cepheus
Cepheus


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Far-flung Keeper
posted April 12, 2009 02:06 PM

It's true, reality tends to bite, but what are you gonna do about it?  Bah.

Oh, happy easter

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DagothGares
DagothGares


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
posted April 12, 2009 02:08 PM

Quote:
It's true, reality tends to bite, but what are you gonna do about it?  Bah.
I could brutally murder Stephenie Meyer...

Oh, and happy Easter
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Shadow123
Shadow123

Tavern Dweller
posted April 12, 2009 07:39 PM

No-no-no-no-no.
You just don't get it. I'm not saying it's pettiness to show flaws and plotholes, I'm saying it's pettiness to look for defects in a book you enjoyed, like you did here. That's just pettiness.
And I'm not giving counter-arguments or what ever, because it's not the point. Harry Poter can be the worst book ever, it's just doesn't matters. What's that matters is you trying to sully a book you liked. It's not like i'm giving a snow of what I'm reading here, and I certainly not get insulted here, I'm just trying to make people a little but better. Without pettiness and so.


Bye the way, sorry if I have some grammer mistakes here and there, english is not my language.
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TheDeath
TheDeath


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with serious business
posted April 12, 2009 07:47 PM

Quote:
I never said I don't understand it. Children usually don't care for plotholes one tiny bit.
That was, for the most part, the target audience. So yeah, pretty successful I would say...
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phoenixreborn
phoenixreborn


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Legendary Hero
Unicorn
posted April 12, 2009 08:24 PM

For Doomforge my summary:

Me: What is the moral of the first Harry Potter book?
Elvin: Happy ending
Doom: I wanted a sad ending with HP dying.
Me: At the end of the first book?
Doom: huh? Sorry.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


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posted April 12, 2009 08:41 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 20:42, 12 Apr 2009.

I thought I already explained I meant the seventh one, Phoenix

There is no real "moral" to HP endings, except the banal "good conquers evil". But it's a story aimed at younger audience, so I do not dare to criticize it. It's ok.

Shadow123: thanks for caring, but I actually don't feel bad criticizing the book I enjoyed (like and enjoy are different things you know. ). So no need to worry about me anymore.
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phoenixreborn
phoenixreborn


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Unicorn
posted April 12, 2009 10:02 PM

I know what you meant.  I'm just saying it didn't make sense if you read it back.  You just missed my post.

I may as well share my moral thought.  Harry is conflicted throughout the series about his kinship with he-who-must-not-be named.  They even share dreams and feelings.

In the first book Harry is frightened by his ability to speak and understand parseltongue.  He is afraid it makes him evil.  Dumbledore takes him aside and explains that it is Harry's choice to be evil or not to be.

This is done to good effect in the movie as well.

Snape is for me the most interesting character in the series.  How about for you Doom?
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Elvin
Elvin


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Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted April 12, 2009 10:19 PM
Edited by Elvin at 22:26, 12 Apr 2009.

I certainly liked him and was pretty sure about his role in the last book. Severus was just...complicated. Fred and George were certainly amongst my favourites, these guys were hilarious There were more than a few characters I liked but it's been a while so I'd have to think about it first. On the top of my head I liked Lupin's sense of professionalism and friendly nature - though a bit too gloomy at times, Sirius possibly because I sympathized with what happened to him and still retained his chaotic fun personality, Dumbledore for his wisdom, subtlety and chaotic good kind-hearted nature, Tonks for her carefree fun attitude.. Cedric for being a good guy and even better sport, who else.

Edit:

About the moral I'm not so sure about that. Yes that was a good start and something that would have concerned anyone in Harry's place but he was just 12 or so. There is also the 'prophesy' where Dumbledore explains that regardless of what it said Voldemort made sure that Harry would hate him and become his opposite. The issue of friendship is brought up, rules are meant to be broken, some criticism on politics and journalist.. I does not look to me as if Rowling had a specific message.
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Ednaguy
Ednaguy


Supreme Hero
My water just broke! No, wait.
posted April 12, 2009 10:23 PM

Luna Lovegood of course
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