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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted September 28, 2009 02:16 PM |
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Quote:
It should stay as it is now. Two empty spots in one merchant is a very rare case. Usually it's one artifact less. It's fair to both sides.
I'm glad that Dungeon has the library back. It surely needed that. Mana issue, well, sometimes the empty tank of mana is the only hope for surviving if the Warlock has nice spell power and some elemental artifacts or at least it will force him to cast spells bit more economically.
I agree .
And about Arcane Excellence... I believe there is a slight missunderstanding here. If you take the perk it will ad 100 Mana on top of your current Mana which sucks big time. So after leveling to level 21 let's say you have 13 Knowledge and you started with 1 Knowledge. Now along the way you chose Arcane Excellence and after you leveled you'll find that you have 110/130 Mana. But you chose the perk so that you could have 230/130 Mana. So the perk really doesn't work on the map. The wells and now town sleeping rules are in place so that Elvin can prevent cheating via erasing knowledge perks and intelligence but still getting their benefits.
As far as I understood it Arcane Excellence doesn't work as it's suppose to, unless of course I missunderstood it. But it's a small price to pay in order to prevent the erasing of knowledge skills in my opinion.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 29, 2009 01:29 AM |
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Some of you already knew but I was testing a new version the past few days. Not much is new, however the sphinx now gives lvl 18 and less resources are available for arcane library. That changes the whole balance, hopefully for the best 
My intent was to slow down the action, make the map more tactical. And indeed now you cannot have everything, if for instance sylvan goes retribution and light they will be forced to leave something behind, be it offensive or defensive. Likewise the spellpower of magic factions decreases which makes things a little more balanced for factions like orcs or inferno against necro. I cannot guarantee perfect balance but I hope this is a step in the right direction.
To quench upcoming concerns on dungeon being weaker I can pretty much verify that is not the case. Yes it will be harder to get swift mind now but on the other hand might factions will have less passive bonuses. About spellpower here are the spellpower values I got after some testing:
17, 18, 3x19, 21, 2x 22, 2x23, 24, 3x25, 26, 27, 35
Should be noted that most of the times I got wizard's reward, rest comes from library and artifacts. A few times I got both reward and excellence, one time I even got 4 spellpower arties(lol) hence how I managed 35. Which is why I don't plan on adding back their town merchant, would be easier to get many power arties..
The games will begin on Friday to give me some time for extra testing in case I have missed something. Hey Jinxer you still have time to get out  I know you are not likely to enjoy the new changes but on the other hand you won't be getting one-sided slaughters as often and some risky matchups are now 'safer'.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted September 29, 2009 01:34 AM |
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Edited by Jinxer at 02:43, 29 Sep 2009.
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This is a step in the WRONG direction.. you are falling closer to ARENA. I joined this based on the fact that Elvin told me there was 21 levels. It needs less restriction.. not even more. I am not sure I wanna suffer thru another "Arena" tourny. sigh
Quote:
Hey albolabris, thanks for joining. And especially for commenting on the balance.
Normally I wouldn't have a problem with lvl 18 if not for two things:
- First it's a week 6 army strength by which time you are more likely to have lvl 21 than 18. Actually closer to 25 but that would be indeed too much on top of allowing the imbalanced absolute abilities. Lvl 18 I tend to have by end of week 2
- Secondly it's not nearly as much fun, many possible combinations ( Elvin)
Why the 180?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 29, 2009 11:31 AM |
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Not possible to please everyone so I opted for a compromise, quite possibly a controversial one. The reason I delayed the games however wasn't just for testing but to give time for your expressing opinions. If there are more complaints then I will leave the original as planned.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted September 29, 2009 11:41 AM |
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You are correct Elvin, you will never make everybody happy. The game has some bad balance designs issues as it is. No matter what you do, it is going to be a bit unbalanced one way or another. An Ellenor (spelling?) is not going to stand up very good against a Haggash without some serious cheating going on for instance.
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Message received.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 29, 2009 11:47 AM |
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Incorrect, haven is good enough vs orcs Haggash or not.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted September 29, 2009 12:05 PM |
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Never said otherwise, with a few exceptions. Sure it depends on luck of the draw and artifacts. However, I am one of the less skilled players. I would take on the BEST player if they had Ellenor and I had Haggash and neither had any artifacts of any kind. Especially in an 'arena' like setting where our levels would be equal and army would be max. Heck, though I have my doubts about ever beating you, I'd even be pretty confident in that setting.
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Message received.
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Natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted September 29, 2009 12:07 PM |
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In our games with sq orcs crashed haven 95 % of the time
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted September 29, 2009 12:13 PM |
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Edited by Mytical at 12:14, 29 Sep 2009.
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Haven can beat Stronghold, especially if it was Elvin vs poor little ol me. Some heroes give an edge, however, over others. Which is a game flaw. Even with arties, unless Haven got really good arties and stronghold got average or poor arties..the tax ability of 'the peoples champion' vs a boost to the strength of a unit just gives a good advantage (to the one who gives + strength to the unit).
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Message received.
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted September 29, 2009 02:35 PM |
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Since you cant make everyone happy... and since we already had an Arena Tournament.. why not keep the unique style of your Duel Tournament as it was... Let the arena players experience a Duel tourny.. instead of letting them talk you into changing your duel tourny into there Arena tourny.
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veco
Legendary Hero
who am I?
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posted September 29, 2009 03:14 PM |
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Frankly, I agree with Jinxer.
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none of my business.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 29, 2009 03:31 PM |
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( )
Now I've seen it all. A few more people have expressed hesitation so I'll drop the idea - time to see some mayhem! Will post the final map tomorrow.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted September 29, 2009 04:10 PM |
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Edited by Jinxer at 16:10, 29 Sep 2009.
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Quote:
Frankly, I agree with Jinxer.
I think Veco should get a Quality Red Star... takes alot of Guts to say those words outloud 
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sq79
Famous Hero
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posted September 29, 2009 06:23 PM |
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Edited by sq79 at 20:06, 29 Sep 2009.
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There's some problems with the map now i think. Played a lot of games with nat, and noticed that for player 2, all relics seems to be blank, so it leaves alot of blank slots in the artie merchants compared to player 1. Basically, player1 have access to all unbanned relics like 4 dwarwen arties, sars isus , sandro cloak etc , and player2 is all unavailable and leaves blank slots.
Then for the taming of the heroes, actually it seems to cause some strange problems, playing with the initiative of the heroes, seems to screw up the battle, i've seen cyclops acting faster than blood fury in one of the games. Also haggash initiative for centuars seems to be lower than 9 , and initiative 12 arcanes going slower than warmongers.
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albolabris
Known Hero
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posted September 29, 2009 07:46 PM |
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Well...I was aiming to write something long but since the decision seems to be already taken it will be short.
On 18th level battles are more fair, more balanced, more interesting, player has to make some crucial decisions about the build and to that all also...you need to show more skill because on 21 luck plays a much bigger part. Agree or not. It's less fun only. But I played a lot of that type maps on lover levels and really 21 is too high. Still, just my private opinion. Thx.
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted September 29, 2009 11:45 PM |
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And I respect your opinion Albo.. but I actually think the exact opposite.. the lower the level.. the MORE LUCK plays a part.. Cause you actually have less counters less options.. If you get bad luck with artifacts or offered skills.. then your hands are tied.
The more options you add to any battle.. adds MORE Depth.. More Strategy... For example in Arena.. with the low level.. just need Luck and Morale skill/perks and that controls things. Double damage one hit can decide the battle. With more levels.. Those skills/perks are still nice.. but not game winners.
But when your used to only playing low level maps.. 21 would seem like alot.. but I am used to playing level 26 type maps.. so 21 even seems sick low.. so the happy middle ground is 21.. sounds perfect
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 30, 2009 12:06 AM |
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Houston we have a problem! Turns out Sq is right and for whatever reason blue cannot get relics. I tried placing merchants all with copy paste or each separately but nothing seems to work.. I don't even know what causes it and there is no script or mod on the arties to at least pinpoint the blame there.
Anyone has any idea why this is happening? If I don't find a solution I may have to ban all relics or follow albolabris' plan. That is 3 areas with 3 random minor, 2 major and 1 relic artifacts only one of which being accessible. That does mess with my idea of cost of opportunity and being able to sacrifice army in favour of artifacts but it is the fairest solution I'm afraid. On the good side it is unlikely that you will get a bad or imbalanced combination.
Of course with this system there are more details to take care of but leave that to me for now. Again I apologize for this mess, apparently H5 mechanics is even more of a mess than we thought 
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Elias_Maluco
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 30, 2009 12:12 AM |
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Hey, all. Just want to say I agree with Jinxer: more levels, more possibilities, more strategy, less luck. Actually, I love levels, for me we could play at level 35 or higher, but 21 was ok, 18 is too low.
Looking foward to meet you on the battlefield!
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Zilo
Promising
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 30, 2009 08:29 AM |
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Quote:
That is 3 areas with 3 random minor, 2 major and 1 relic artifacts only one of which being accessible. That does mess with my idea of cost of opportunity and being able to sacrifice army in favour of artifacts but it is the fairest solution I'm afraid.
How about that (or a bit lesser combo like 2+1+1 or 1+2+1) + one merchant?
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Towerlord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted September 30, 2009 08:38 AM |
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I think I have a hunch about what's going on with artifact merchants... There are less relics(~25 without banning) than the total number of merchants(32) and relics only appear once... so they populate, as many merchants as they can, and after no more relics appear.
Another thing to note, is the fact that first players merchants were placed on map first, so that's why they probably get the relics ... I might be wrong though, but anyway I think it deserves a check.
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This thread is pages long: 
