|
| Thread: How to learn from saves efficiently? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · NEXT» |
|
batoonike
Known Hero
|
posted November 09, 2009 04:03 PM |
|
|
How to learn from saves efficiently?
How do you view the savegames of pro games and repeat them? I cant remember where I "have to" end up so I tried making screenshots of the hero positions and the end of each turn but its still way too much work and too little actual heroes playing.
It would be great to open the savegames in additional laptop but I dont have one.
Ive also considered writing down the important stuff like in chess.
Any tips?
Thank you!
____________
I see horde of zombies........ some utopias too
I see em fall..... for me and for you
And I think to myself.... what a wonderful world.
|
|
DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
|
|
posted November 09, 2009 04:50 PM |
|
|
Watch them creeping. Learn how they deal with various types of creeps. Exact movement wouldn't be so important as creeping, I think. Also, look at their builds.
____________
If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
|
|
tigris
Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
|
|
posted November 09, 2009 05:30 PM |
|
|
actually the building sequence in online games is somewhat standard.
what i find more interesting to watch is "the plan" (on a map template like jebus for exemple, the outcome of this plan is the break).I think after the first few 2-3 days, a good player already knows when he will be likely to break and already has some secondary objectives( flagging some dwells,taking pandora boxes/cons/hives,breaking money structures etc).
So in effect, the interesting thing is to see how these goals are achieved and this is all planning/chaining.
I think any decent player can correctly assess these goals, but the hard part is planning ahead correctly, prioritising your movement points, chaining correctly, choosing the right army to fight certain fights.
Just my 2 cents
____________
|
|
batoonike
Known Hero
|
|
posted November 09, 2009 06:05 PM |
|
|
Thanks for ideas! Strangely Ive never thought about making plans much.
Anyways, do you take any notes or just memorise where they ended up as and try to get to same place? Or how do you technicly "learn the saves"? Or its not so important to do it exactly like they did but more like try to win the same fights with armies they had?
____________
I see horde of zombies........ some utopias too
I see em fall..... for me and for you
And I think to myself.... what a wonderful world.
|
|
tigris
Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
|
|
posted November 09, 2009 06:52 PM |
|
|
I think you are talking about fixed maps there. I am talking about saves from games played on random maps.Fixed maps are boring exactly because you can play the exact same map 100 times before and plan your moves to the last milimeter whereas the fun of random is that there is always that "unexpected" factor so you have to think on the spot, make decisions in a limited time frame and adapt to what the map has to offer.
IMO the good things for beginers to see in "pro" saves are:
1. Army chaining
2 Certain fights(increase your confidence to attack tougher monsters earlier)
3. Economy(crypts,tresureries, medusa stores etc)
4. Priorities(fight only the important fights with your main, dont go for every pile of gold, etc etc)
____________
|
|
SAG
Promising
Supreme Hero
WCL owner
|
|
posted November 10, 2009 08:11 AM |
|
|
saves of good players give you basic understanding about what is possible at this game. 3 years ago I was sure that it's impossible to develop hero to level20, stats like 25/25/20/20 and get some huge army like 40-60 wyverns - JUST ON MID-WEEK 2! But now it's often possible, you just need to change your primary and secondary targets in game...
Novice player's priorities: Capitol, mines, high-level magic
Average player's priorities: several towns, creature buildings especially level7 building in town
Expert player's priorities: expanding the map, topes, hives, conservatories, external dwells.
You can download some good save collections from WCL
____________
I play HoMM3 at www.heroes-
III.com
|
|
BiGLi
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted November 10, 2009 05:54 PM |
|
|
SAG, I saw you mentioned that you could downlaod savegames, I was wondering if yoy knew any place I could get savgames to campaign-shadow of death and armageddon`s blade. I have just formated my computer, and by a mistake I forgot to take backup of the savgames ..I would realy hat to do all the missons again, thinking of all the hours I have laid down..I just wish to continue were I left..could you help me?
|
|
batoonike
Known Hero
|
|
posted November 10, 2009 06:07 PM |
|
|
In singleplayer I would just cheat throught the campaigns till the point you were 
Thanks for the hints everyone!
|
|
BiGLi
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted November 10, 2009 06:26 PM |
|
|
|
yess, that would work I guess..thanks
|
|
liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
|
|
posted November 11, 2009 12:34 PM |
|
|
Yes, you are somehow limitted when you look the saves. You can not see everithing.
But you can see some very important things:
1. The choice of the main hero. The secondary skill advancement.
2. The DIRECTION of the main hero. Where he goes each day. Thats very important. Which stuff he chooses to take and which he leaves as not important enough.
3. The fights made. Yes, you cannot see how they happened exactly, but you see whats possible. Once you know its possible, you just have to figure how to do it. If needed, ask questions from skilled players (you must have skilled friends) for the specific battle.
4. Movements of the scouts (aka chaining). The idea of the scouts is not just to wander through the map picking gold. They must: 1 - be one day away from each other, so if nececery to bring troops to do an important fight. 2 - in the rare ocasion when they are not in the chain, they must reveal as much map as they can, so sometimes they have toleave a gold pile or a chest just because its in a dead end and there is no point going there.
|
|
Casihasi
Known Hero
|
|
posted November 11, 2009 06:23 PM |
|
|
You could learn the most from saves on templates that are not a joke like Jebus, thou.
IŽll tell you so much, on rush maps with heaps of gold/resources a good player doesn't even break a sweat to achieve the goals Tigris described.
But on tough maps, that is where you could learn the most on how they move, and how they fight under circumstances that are not always the same rushing to the treasure area as early as week 2.
|
|
angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
|
|
posted November 11, 2009 06:37 PM |
|
|
Not again this "old fashioned" statements.
What is a TOUGH map?
Some find open maps tough because you have to do 38 scout fights before the mains probably meet the first time. Others call this kind of map boring.
Next calls very POOR maps tough, while this is not really tougher than rich maps, it just lengthens the game. On poor maps you fight pack wyvern monarchs early, while on rich maps, you fight lots of wyvern monarchs early.
Rushing to a treasure zone has nothing to do with being a joke or not. Even if having tons of money, your army is limited in week 2. So breaking vs lots of level 7s week 2 is still skilled, and not luck.
Maps and templates may be different nowadays than compared to 2001, but for sure they are not EASIER, nor are the players less skilled. I'm even pretty sure it is the opposit. The current top active players would destroy the top players from the early H3 days. Why? easy...because more and more secrets of the game have been revealed. Be it the skill tree, the spell possibilities, the AI "bugs"...whatever. Everything has improved.
Many of the "oldtimers" of ToH came back to Gamspy and started playing again. I don't see any of them in any ranking....they gave up pretty soon.
I remember my start on MSN zone late 2004. Jebus began to become pretty popular that time. Mostly played L size 130%. I played around 50 games on my first 2 seasons each on that template against many different players. Be it Frank, The_Saint, Zendy, Ironwill, etc...
Breaking 131 was called very skilled that time, and it was not standard by those players.
Nowadays you break 124 as standard as far as I know, and 131 is standard on XL 130%.
Time has changed....
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
|
|
Casihasi
Known Hero
|
|
posted November 11, 2009 06:40 PM |
|
|
Nothing changed...for 2vs2 there was a time when everyone played cris cross. Almost ALL moves have been automated.
And when it happened that we played a good 2vs2 map, we laughed about how bad some players really came along.
And it would be the same with Jebus players, it would be a good laugh to see them on real maps.
|
|
Casihasi
Known Hero
|
|
posted November 11, 2009 06:46 PM |
|
|
And yes, i was bored too when i tried H3 again.
I don't want to sit in gamespy or whatever, and the only people willing to play are prolly newbies.
If anyone wants a challenge: Confirm a game vs. me here, you can set the time etc. I'll play with rules, no rules, whatever you want to pick. But the times where i wait for a game are over, sadly.
Iam not just about talk, if you want a game iam here.
|
|
fank0
Known Hero
There are no limits
|
|
posted November 11, 2009 10:05 PM |
|
|
The level of gameplay today is much higher then 4-5 years ago. This cannot be argued.
And quit talking about Jebus. We play all kind of templates and we are good on all of them. So, it is actually you that is not a challenge to us. Any decent player is gonna wipe you out on any template. I got really pissed from you and Salamandre, talking over and over and over about "the glorious golden age of heroes", implying best times are behind us. On the opposite, Heroes has never been played on a level so high before. The heroes 3 community is strong and developing, multiple leagues and tournaments exist, mods and patches created. And you just come after being inactive for years and start flaming. You have no idea what the reality is.
____________
And you believed that?
|
|
Casihasi
Known Hero
|
|
posted November 11, 2009 10:10 PM |
|
|
|
fank0
Known Hero
There are no limits
|
|
posted November 11, 2009 10:31 PM |
|
|
Why should i play with you ? I see no point.
____________
And you believed that?
|
|
Casihasi
Known Hero
|
|
posted November 11, 2009 10:58 PM |
|
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted November 11, 2009 11:00 PM |
|
|
Quote:
The level of gameplay today is much higher then 4-5 years ago. This cannot be argued.
Nobody came to flame the actual set up. Can you quote a single phrase where I told game is worse now or players less skilled? I told it is different and not on old players taste. It is you guys who repeat over and over that you are better than veterans, maybe to convince your self and give a reason to continue. There is no proof to backup this and there will not be. I don't know if old players were better or worse than Maretti, Paladin etc. I can't know it because the saves from WCL are irrelevant, showing only an unique direction, played less or more efficient from player to player. As long as none of you (including Angelito) never played in 2001-2005 with the old setup (open fixed maps, no rules), none of your disrespectful statements has any valuable backup but only words.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
|
Casihasi
Known Hero
|
|
posted November 11, 2009 11:03 PM |
|
Edited by Casihasi at 23:03, 11 Nov 2009.
|
|
Oh yea 1 more thing, while TOH was big it prolly had 100x more players then your current leagues. Saying that h3 is bigger and stronger now is funny, in its own way.
|
|
|
|
