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| Thread: HoMM 6 Needs to be 2D ! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT» |
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lordriton
Known Hero
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posted August 06, 2010 04:33 PM |
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Poll Question:
HoMM 6 Needs to be 2D !
It is probably to late already for the wishlist of HoMM 6 , but i thinked about this, and i made a conclusion for myself:
I played all main HoMM games , HoMM 1 to HoMM 5, and which one of them do i still play from time to time, even now ?
HOMM 3 !!
They Need to do HoMM 6 as a 2D graphics game like HoMM3, 3D can be great, but when i play HoMM 5 it just seems to me i have less information on my game screen than i have when i play HoMM3.
In HoMM 3 i see immediatly all i want to know from the map, and i can make decisions much faster, also i find the graphics better in HoMM3, yes, graphics are ugly in HoMM 5 for me, especially when you get a close view on things, and of course you get also less infos of the terrain map as more you zoom in the terrain. But even with a large view in HoMM5, graphics are still not great, things seems then way to small and you still don't have more infos on the map than you have on a quick view on HoMM3. And i play on a wide screen wich goes up to 1920x1200 pixels.
HoMM3 graphics are made in 800x600 and 16 bit color i think, so on my wide screen i can see the ugly pixels, but still i preffer it's graphics vs HoMM5 .. Damm ! would that rock a 2D HoMM6 with 16 Million colors (32 bit) in 1920x1200 or even only in 1600x1024 !
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted August 06, 2010 04:49 PM |
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Of for F**ks sake.
Ok, H5 dun goofed when it came to the graphical department, in your oppinion. So what? does that mean we need to go back to H3's rubbishy 16 bit graphics when we have progressed so far? that would be like telling a car inventor "It was better in the days when we didn't have your motors, and your windscreens, and your seatbelts..."
H3 was a good game, Ok? but I happen to like all the innovations that H5 brought with it, as well as some of the graphical decisions. Ok the story was a bit pants, but if that's the case, H3's story was pants made out of stilton.
What the heroes series needs is not a graphical reinvisioning, but finer tweakings on gameplay, a more intelligent story rather than "fantasy cliche 101", and some experimentation with the concepts behind it.
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted August 06, 2010 04:55 PM |
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Quote:
Ok the story was a bit pants, but if that's the case, H3's story was pants made out of stilton.
Er, frankly, this sounds like you've never played any of the Heroes III campaigns in your life.
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted August 06, 2010 05:08 PM |
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Bixie, HoMM5 may be nice too look but it does not bloody work. Have you tried to play an impossible map on? To reload a save from it? It DOES not work.
And btw, me too thinks that 3 is from FAR the best of the series. Specially with WoG additions, which work afair. 2D is also a must for those kind of games, 3D is a shinning cover for poor strategy choices and AI flaws.
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Era II mods and utilities
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lordriton
Known Hero
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posted August 06, 2010 06:56 PM |
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Quote:
does that mean we need to go back to H3's rubbishy 16 bit graphics when we have progressed so far?
Not 16 bit, no no no ! 2D does not mean ugly 16 bit graphics !
But like i said : 32 bit ! in at least 1600x1024 , the diff would be huge compared to 800x600 16 bit from HoMM3.
And 2D graphics still means less job than 3D textured graphics for the game developers, so this also means more creatures, and other game items !
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Sorry for my miserable english, i'm french.
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted August 06, 2010 07:26 PM |
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Quote:
Of for F**ks sake.
What you want?
Yeah, I agree, it's a little much to conclude since the changing of graphics is not the only difference between games.
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Living time backwards
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted August 06, 2010 08:34 PM |
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in these ages,3D gained so much popularity and have a better perspective of game,it's easy to rotate a 3D character,when a 2D need more frames.But 2D after two games 3D?
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted August 06, 2010 09:18 PM |
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Voted 'Don't Care', but IMO 2D will require less system resources. BTW Lizard, only H5 was 3D, H4 was Isometric, it's not the same.
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted August 06, 2010 09:47 PM |
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Quote:
But like i said : 32 bit ! in at least 1600x1024 , the diff would be huge compared to 800x600 16 bit from HoMM3.
but the age of bits is somewhat over, mate...
Look, I don't want to shock you, but we've moved beyond 1999. we don't need to work in bit format any more. we have progressed, moving beyond that period, gone to greener pastures and more prosperous futures. It is an Ex-format
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And 2D graphics still means less job than 3D textured graphics for the game developers, so this also means more creatures, and other game items !
ok, less time on creature models, more time on creature design and game items...
and this is meant to be better, rather than filler?
Making everything feel mattered in a town is fine, but that doesn't mean adding more towns and more creatures. that just bogs everything down. a few unique creatures is far better than loads that are cookie cutter formats, it's the same schtick with Items.
just because the game that started experimenting dun goofed in certain areas does not mean a complete return to the last good game, that just leads to stagnation, which can mean the death of the franchise. I really, really doubt any of us want to see that happening, so lets take what worked (racial skills, limited number of towns, etc), and try experimenting with other stuff (adding gunpowder, different art-style, better narratives, etc.)
and also, just because I don't like Heroes 3 narrative I'm suddenly considered less of a human being. I'm sorry, but it gripped me as much as a pile of dead eels.
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted August 06, 2010 10:34 PM |
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Edited by Cepheus at 22:47, 06 Aug 2010.
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Quote:
And 2D graphics still means less job than 3D textured graphics for the game developers
Actually, that's almost universally incorrect. Animating sprites is far, far more time-consuming than rigging and posing a 3D model, which is part of why so much of the art in H3 (and practically everything in H4) was rendered in 3D.
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and also, just because I don't like Heroes 3 narrative I'm suddenly considered less of a human being. I'm sorry, but it gripped me as much as a pile of dead eels.
Bixie, I strongly support the maxim that there is no accounting for taste, but the question of whether H3 had better storytelling than H5 simply isn't a subjective matter, especially considering that H5's plot is quite literally a rehash of H3's campaign. I also brought up Foolhardy Waywardness from H3 in the thread where you demanded more humour in Heroes, but you didn't know what the hell I was talking about IIRC. Hence I have reason to seriously doubt you've gone anywhere near H3's campaign.
But if you aren't jesting and seriously place H5's storyline on a par with H3's - let alone consider it better - then debating with you is simply futile. Even the H5 developers themselves have a contrary opinion.
EDIT: I had a closer look, you mentioned that Heroes needs a more intelligent story than "fantasy cliche 101". This is unintentionally hilarious and incredibly sardonic, and must constitute some sort of Seinfeld is Unfunny syndrome, because you're talking about the spawn of one of the series which originally turned that cliche on its head for videogames - setting up what is apparently a full high fantasy world for most of the game, and then suddenly throwing a load of sci-fi at you towards the end, yet making the whole thing workable and believable.
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted August 06, 2010 11:02 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 01:07, 07 Aug 2010.
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BTW bixie, you can run a 2D game on a single-processor computer, which some of us still have as we don't actually have the money to buy a new machine or overhaul our existing one.
Personally I'm less bothered about the storylines than about the way the campaigns are set up, and frankly, I think that a big (possibly even multi-faction) campaign is pretty much a necessity, but beyond that I'm pretty much open. I've never actually played H5, but the story doesn't seem that great, and it portrays everyone as either good or evil, there's none of the enlightened self-interest you got in H3. Maybe they should tone down the demons next time to allow some of the old power politics to come into play, that, at least make it so that the main bag guys are weak enough not to require everyone to unite against them.
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted August 06, 2010 11:12 PM |
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When I said "H3 story is like pants made of stilton" it was addressing a certain amount of cheese factor to it. I mean, I liked the cheese factor of it, I thought some bits were unintentionally funny, especially played straight faced.
the story, however, was not gripping, but if ther heroes series embraced the cheese factor, like the red alert series did, then you could end up for a very funny game.
Heroes 5 was too boring, and yes, the story was complete pants. it didn't even have the humour factor.
so yes, H3 does have the better storyline, but only because of the fact that it was so cheesy. that doesn't make it interesting, exciting, or any kind of emotional experience.
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted August 06, 2010 11:26 PM |
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Edited by Cepheus at 23:38, 06 Aug 2010.
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Dude, you're not going very far toward explaining why exactly you consider H3 poorly written or cheesy, you're just saying "it was". I can just as easily state that anything from The Grapes of Wrath to Star Trek is overly melodramatic or cheesy, with no justification. Can you point to a certain scene or event in the storyline with bad writing or cheesy dialogue? Which campaign, which character, which mission. Even a vague example.
I can point out several dozen of these in H5, the "I was just about to put the kettle on" line in the final scenario for instance, Isabel's voice acting, or Zehir's character as a whole.
If you rise to the challenge, try and be retroactive about it and place yourself in the shoes of a person from 1999 who would've experienced it as-is. Don't scream "look at Sandro, he's got such a crappy, primitive character model!" or whatever, because it wasn't primitive back then.
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
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lordriton
Known Hero
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posted August 06, 2010 11:51 PM |
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Quote:
but the age of bits is somewhat over, mate...
Sorry, but that made me laugh, lol
Computers will always work with bits, cause they are just designed like that (at least this won't change in the next 20 or 30 years)
16 bit graphics means each pixels is coded on 16 bits, what allows at best a choice for each over 65,536 different colors. But most of the time in 16 bit color they use one bit for transparency, so the possible colour numbers for one pixels gets to 32,768.
You could think that as many color choices for each pixel is huge and way enough, but in fact there is a big difference compared to a 32 bit graphic picture which allows a choice for each pixels on over 16 Millions of colors. You can see the difference very well , especially on pictures with color degradations zones, like we can see on a nice sky pictures for exemple.
Now it is true that nowadays we don't talk much about the color systems from games that are coming out anymore, because they are just all in 32 bit modes, because it is just useless to make games in more than 16M colors, this because the human eye will not make the difference beyond that numbers of colors anymore.
but 32 bit color pictures will always be a fat win vs 16 bit color pictures.
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Sorry for my miserable english, i'm french.
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lordriton
Known Hero
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posted August 07, 2010 12:07 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
And 2D graphics still means less job than 3D textured graphics for the game developers
Actually, that's almost universally incorrect. Animating sprites is far, far more time-consuming than rigging and posing a 3D model, which is part of why so much of the art in H3 (and practically everything in H4) was rendered in 3D.
I agree on that, models will surely first be done in 3D, so it will be very easy to animate them. So ok, it won't take less time for the developers.
But, the result would then be rendered at the best draw distance and best lightning effects and then converted into 2D sprites. This usually gives great sprites in 2D, and also will take much less power to draw them. This Makes a very fast game with maximum graphic visuals and low CPU usage. And not having to turn the game view so we get best view of the map, is also something that adds to game pleasure and confort.
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Sorry for my miserable english, i'm french.
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted August 10, 2010 12:45 AM |
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Edited by Cepheus at 00:47, 10 Aug 2010.
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I knew he never went near the H3 campaign. Bluffers beware  [/deadhorseflogging]
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
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Andy_Dandy
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 16, 2010 10:27 PM |
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I'd say Heroes 4 had the best graphics in the series. A sort of 3D-like 2D graphics. Nowadays developers seems to sacrifce gameplay for unpractical fancy graphics.
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted August 17, 2010 12:11 PM |
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screenshots seem a tiny bit less 3D, possibly...
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Berny-Mac
Promising
Legendary Hero
Lord Vader
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posted August 18, 2010 05:11 AM |
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3D ain't bad, it just needs to be used properly. Nival went old man willow when trying to do Homm5's graphics, hopefully Black Hole won't screw it over.
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Skyrim RP? YES!
Here it is!
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 18, 2010 05:57 AM |
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3D is fine. The problem is how clunky it can be, as is the case with H5. Moving in narrow underground areas is a chore, the battlefields are terrible (why do I have to move the camera to target properly?), and overall usability was replaced with either empty space or eye candy.
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Eccentric Opinion
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