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Fofa
Famous Hero
Famous? Me?!
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posted April 28, 2011 10:10 PM |
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Quote:
Can someone explain what are the MOTIVES of Ubisoft for having such an idiocy instead of traditional, animated town screens? 
Trying something new?
Seriously, how is a series supposed to go forward if it isn't allowed to try new things? Most people don't want their series to be the same thing over and over again, how is that any fun? 
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted April 28, 2011 10:15 PM |
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Edited by MrDragon at 22:19, 28 Apr 2011.
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Quote:
"Positive" people said that we should wait because whole thing is work in progress and windows couldn't possibly be that bad. Now, eight months later, we see exactly same design and the story changes from those same people.
How about you name those people, because I haven't seen anybody change their stance on town screens/windows.
I for example have so far, and still hold the opinion of:
"Prefer Townscreens to Townwindows."
Just because I don't care as much about it as you do doesn't mean I, or anybody else I can think of that commented on Townscreens/windows have actually "changed our story".
Also a lack of mage-guild does not prove there will be less structures.
None of the insider info has given us any information on the total amount of structures at all.
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SoilBurn
Known Hero
BurnsSoil
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posted April 28, 2011 10:24 PM |
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Quote:
Trying something new?
Seriously, how is a series supposed to go forward if it isn't allowed to try new things? Most people don't want their series to be the same thing over and over again, how is that any fun?
The Blood/Tears reputation system does qualify as "something new".
The area-of-control system ditto.
The new advanced hero classes are definitely an innovation.
Now how exactly does "reducing a town screen to a fixed-size window and beating all interactivity out of it" fall into your definition of "new"?
There is nothing new there, only less.
Well, except if you are a minimalist, then I accept the argument
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted April 28, 2011 10:28 PM |
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Not the same as it used to be, that's pretty much the definition of something new.
A step in any direction is new to just standing still, even if that is a step backwards.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Brukernavn
Hero of Order
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posted April 28, 2011 10:40 PM |
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Quote:
Seriously, how is a series supposed to go forward if it isn't allowed to try new things?
I'm all in favor of trying new things, as long as there is a good reason for the attempt. The only reason they made screens into windows is because it's technically easier.
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SoilBurn
Known Hero
BurnsSoil
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posted April 28, 2011 11:08 PM |
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Quote:
Not the same as it used to be, that's pretty much the definition of something new.
A step in any direction is new to just standing still, even if that is a step backwards.
Lemme guess: Your favorite games are Disciples III and Dragon Age II, right?
It's easy to give Heroes the same treatment, just encourage Ubihole to continue down the same path they are on:
- Remove more factions until only Haven and Inferno remain (for simplicity's sake let's call them "good guys" and "bad guys" - or "Alliance" and "Horde", your choice)
- Then we can also simplify the game's title to appeal to the masses, let's say into "Duel Heroes: The Epic Clash"
- Since a "duel" game should be even more focussed on an exhilarating combat experience, let's remove town management altogether. Towns grow by themselves, one tier every turn. There is no need for a town interface now, creatures are added to your army automatically at the beginning of each week, according to your combat accomplishments.
- Along with towns you don't need any resources like wood or ore any more, let alone crystals. Collecting gold and spending it on upgrading your army should be enough (but who cares? look at that shiny new armor!)
- But don't worry, for you can put the time you have saved to good use. Now you have 36 different skill trees you can choose from to beef up your hero (secondary heroes are also obsolete) into the mightiest hero of all time. Doesn't that get you all fired up?
Wouldn't that be totally "new" and fun???
Looking forward to Duel Heroes 7 already!
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Davy
Known Hero
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posted April 29, 2011 12:12 AM |
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Quote:
From your post I assume that you have missed some of the insider comments in the H6 iscussion thread. It is well known that the total amount of buildings available to build in each town is going to be less than in previous Heroes installments (e.g. no Mages Guil)
And what is so special about the 2/4 unique town buildings? Aren't those standard in every Heroes game? (each Heroes 5 town had at least 5, and you could build them all. Just check the info pages on the main site)
Who said,that those 4 buildings will be the only town exclusive buildings?It is confirmed,that therre are still special buildings who can only be built with the tear of asha,which means,it is possible,that the towns still have other town-unique buildings,aside to the special 4 buildings of which you can only build 2.
And the town exclusive buildings in h5 did rarely anything especially useful,most of them just increased the growth of one creature and in most cases only 1 or 2 per town were really special.
And yes the magic guilds are not present,most likely balancing this out in the end...
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Zeki
Supreme Hero
sup
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posted April 29, 2011 01:06 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Not the same as it used to be, that's pretty much the definition of something new.
A step in any direction is new to just standing still, even if that is a step backwards.
Lemme guess: Your favorite games are Disciples III and Dragon Age II, right?
It's easy to give Heroes the same treatment, just encourage Ubihole to continue down the same path they are on:
- Remove more factions until only Haven and Inferno remain (for simplicity's sake let's call them "good guys" and "bad guys" - or "Alliance" and "Horde", your choice)
- Then we can also simplify the game's title to appeal to the masses, let's say into "Duel Heroes: The Epic Clash"
- Since a "duel" game should be even more focussed on an exhilarating combat experience, let's remove town management altogether. Towns grow by themselves, one tier every turn. There is no need for a town interface now, creatures are added to your army automatically at the beginning of each week, according to your combat accomplishments.
- Along with towns you don't need any resources like wood or ore any more, let alone crystals. Collecting gold and spending it on upgrading your army should be enough (but who cares? look at that shiny new armor!)
- But don't worry, for you can put the time you have saved to good use. Now you have 36 different skill trees you can choose from to beef up your hero (secondary heroes are also obsolete) into the mightiest hero of all time. Doesn't that get you all fired up?
Wouldn't that be totally "new" and fun???
Looking forward to Duel Heroes 7 already!
Don't give them stupid ideas! At the end they will do this and will say that it's what the fans wanted!
Also sounds abit like Warhammer: Mark of Chaos, so Blackholes speciality
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted April 29, 2011 01:28 AM |
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What specialty? Creating chaos?
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Zeki
Supreme Hero
sup
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posted April 29, 2011 01:33 AM |
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Making non-brain games.
But I also wanted to translate an idiom(?) into english and didn't new how to do this, so I used google translator
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted April 29, 2011 07:24 AM |
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Even the 'ancient' disciples 2 had pretty cool town screens...
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SoilBurn
Known Hero
BurnsSoil
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posted April 29, 2011 08:02 AM |
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Quote:
Who said,that those 4 buildings will be the only town exclusive buildings?It is confirmed,that therre are still special buildings who can only be built with the tear of asha,which means,it is possible,that the towns still have other town-unique buildings,aside to the special 4 buildings of which you can only build 2.
And the town exclusive buildings in h5 did rarely anything especially useful,most of them just increased the growth of one creature and in most cases only 1 or 2 per town were really special.
And yes the magic guilds are not present,most likely balancing this out in the end...
Technically, you are 100% right.
However, when you are being told "no magi guild", "no blacksmith" and "less features in the town", it is... somewhat safe to assume that the towns are going to be less elaborate (from a building perspective) than their predecessors(I even remember there's supposed to be less steps to reach Capitol now?).
Unfortunately I do not have enough spare time to go search old posts and unearth the relevant discussion, I would be glad if someone did. Maybe I was reading too much into single comments back then.
But I still stand firmly behind my theory that there is a deliberate dumbing down of towns taking place in Heroes 6 (both mechanically and visually)
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted April 29, 2011 08:31 AM |
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Quote:
However, when you are being told "no magi guild", "no blacksmith" and "less features in the town", it is... somewhat safe to assume that the towns are going to be less elaborate (from a building perspective) than their predecessors(I even remember there's supposed to be less steps to reach Capitol now?).
Unfortunately I do not have enough spare time to go search old posts and unearth the relevant discussion, I would be glad if someone did. Maybe I was reading too much into single comments back then.
But I still stand firmly behind my theory that there is a deliberate dumbing down of towns taking place in Heroes 6 (both mechanically and visually)
"no magi guild" check, "no blacksmith" check, "less features in the town" I don't recall reading that ANYWHERE.
So I'd say it's not safe to assume either that it's going to be less, the same or more, because we can only make a vague guess at best.
You can already cancel out the "Blacksmith" for the Hall of Judgement (or whatever it was called) the building used by reputation.
Market Place is still in, and there are MORE unique buildings now per faction then ever before (though you can only build 2).
Looking back, usually a faction would have only structures with unique effects not seen in another town (some of which may have an upgrade) (not including grail/tear of asha, because we have those as well).
So I don't know what source you have that said "less features in the town" but I'm pretty sure it's not one posted on this forum or the official forum.
I'm not saying there will be more, I'm saying that we don't know if it's less.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted April 29, 2011 08:32 AM |
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Even the 'ancient' disciples 2 had pretty cool town screens...
That's Disciples III  . And it indeed DOES have very good town screens. That's how a good 3D should look like, the boring Heroes V landscapes pale in comparison to the Disciples III towns.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted April 29, 2011 08:48 AM |
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Meh, the art direction is all over the place.
Pick a style for your castle and stick with it.
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SoilBurn
Known Hero
BurnsSoil
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posted April 29, 2011 09:40 AM |
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Quote:
"no magi guild" check, "no blacksmith" check, "less features in the town" I don't recall reading that ANYWHERE.
So I'd say it's not safe to assume either that it's going to be less, the same or more, because we can only make a vague guess at best.
You can already cancel out the "Blacksmith" for the Hall of Judgement (or whatever it was called) the building used by reputation.
Market Place is still in, and there are MORE unique buildings now per faction then ever before (though you can only build 2).
Looking back, usually a faction would have only structures with unique effects not seen in another town (some of which may have an upgrade) (not including grail/tear of asha, because we have those as well).
So I don't know what source you have that said "less features in the town" but I'm pretty sure it's not one posted on this forum or the official forum.
I'm not saying there will be more, I'm saying that we don't know if it's less.
I cannot counter this now as I lack the source.
But I will gladly take you up on it as soon as Beta is around
And there was nothing wrong with the H5 Buildings that boosted the growth of specific creature dwellings, I thought they added flavor to the town (not to mention the strategic dilemmas: Do I upgrade the dwelling first or do I increase the growth of the base critter?)
If those are not in H6 (which I highly doubt), there is indeed little possibility that the total amount of buildings is equal to or more than in H5.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted April 29, 2011 09:42 AM |
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...and there are MORE unique buildings now per faction then ever before (though you can only build 2).
Actually, about half the towns in H3 had 4 special buildings, if you include the Shipyard (which only Castle, Fortress and Necropolis got in vanilla, and Conflux later) and Artefact Merchants (which only Tower and Dungeon got, and Conflux later).
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted April 29, 2011 10:01 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
...and there are MORE unique buildings now per faction then ever before (though you can only build 2).
Actually, about half the towns in H3 had 4 special buildings, if you include the Shipyard (which only Castle, Fortress and Necropolis got in vanilla, and Conflux later) and Artefact Merchants (which only Tower and Dungeon got, and Conflux later).
But they aren't unique buildings are they?
Special Buildings are not the same as Unique.
If we count special buildings, there are (CBA to look it up right now) probably more around 4 - 9 per town in HIII and HV.
Like wise, spawn increasers I do not view as "unique" they qualify as special certainly, and if we don't have those as well as certain other special buildings like artifact merchants, then yes it is LIKELY there will be less buildings overall, but we don't know yet, because we don't know more then a couple of buildings in HVI.
Personally, I'm going to say they don't want to tone down town development because in their resource stripping frenzy they did not remove ore and lumber which are only used for construction of buildings most of the time, with a few exceptions.
If they really were going to strip down town construction to something that takes a lot less turns then in HoMMV or HoMMIII (provided you had the resources) then they likely would have removed the resources that were only going to matter a little during the early game and be swapped for gold/crystals during mid and late.
HOWEVER, because we can convert towns one could assume that building up a town and getting it up to par wouldn't take to long, giving players a stronger incentive for taking towns to increase army growth rather then using them as glorified gold mines, mage guilds or market boosters (and/or necro fodder if you played necro).
So there are plenty of arguments for both sides.
Once more, I'm not saying there won't be less, I'm saying we don't know that for sure yet.
Come Beta we will most likely know.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted April 29, 2011 10:29 AM |
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But they aren't unique buildings are they?
Special Buildings are not the same as Unique.
Well so that we don't get into an argument over there things, what are your definitions of 'special' and 'unique'?
Quote:
Like wise, spawn increasers I do not view as "unique" they qualify as special certainly, and if we don't have those as well as certain other special buildings like artifact merchants, then yes it is LIKELY there will be less buildings overall, but we don't know yet, because we don't know more then a couple of buildings in HVI.
How would you count the second spawn increasers for those couple of towns that have 2 of the things?
Quote:
HOWEVER, because we can convert towns one could assume that building up a town and getting it up to par wouldn't take to long, giving players a stronger incentive for taking towns to increase army growth rather then using them as glorified gold mines, mage guilds or market boosters (and/or necro fodder if you played necro).
Well back in H3 it didn't matter much which town you got, because any hero would work with any army; You want to mix Sandro of Crag Hack with Castle or Tower troops, go ahead. Now though...
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted April 29, 2011 10:45 AM |
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Edited by MrDragon at 10:46, 29 Apr 2011.
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Quote:
Well so that we don't get into an argument over there things, what are your definitions of 'special' and 'unique'?
I thought that would be pretty obvious.
Unique is: there is only one of these, it does something nothing else does, no other faction's town has a building with this effect.
Special is: This building's purpose is different from buildings shared by all factions (town hall, market, tavern, mage guild, etc) and also different from creature dwellings.
However special buildings might have analogs that have roughly the same effect, creature spawn increasers being a prime example, every faction has at least one, many have two.
Another being Artifact merchants, not every faction has one, but a few do, thus making it not unique, but certainly special.
Quote:
How would you count the second spawn increasers for those couple of towns that have 2 of the things?
Many towns had two spawn increases, they do the same thing, increase spawn, they don't do anything unique.
In HoMMV, every town or almost every town had two spawn increasers if I recall.
Inferno: Horned Demons, Nightmares
Sylvan: Sprites, Treants
Necro: Skeletons, Bone Dragons
Quote:
Well back in H3 it didn't matter much which town you got, because any hero would work with any army; You want to mix Sandro of Crag Hack with Castle or Tower troops, go ahead. Now though...
Well, in HoMMIII you still couldn't just have 14 stacks, so a town of your own faction could increase your hero's army rather the replace it. Capturing a town of the same faction was much more beneficial, but what I'm getting at here is that the ability to convert towns is a potential argument to reduce town-building complexity and duration.
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This thread is pages long: 
