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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted April 08, 2011 04:02 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 16:03, 08 Apr 2011.
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Quote:
Is that the same "most of us" that voted the Rakshasa as most favorite H5 creature ?
Don't know, guess you'll have to ask every single one who voted that "town screens should be returned". Not that I understand how are the two things related.
And it's not only in this forum you know. Don't know what's the situation at Ubisoft's community bastion Facebook though.
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 08, 2011 04:15 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Is that the same "most of us" that voted the Rakshasa as most favorite H5 creature ?
Don't know, guess you'll have to ask every single one who voted that "town screens should be returned". Not that I understand how are the two things related.
And it's not only in this forum you know. Don't know what's the situation at Ubisoft's community bastion Facebook though.
It's just that I'm trying to understand how 78 people can all of sudden be representing the whole community  It's exactly like saying that 100 people voting on some random board for the Rakshasa stand for THE H5 community vote.
I know several communities that actually don't give a f*** about town screens because they don't affect your gameplay. Sure they're an immersion factor, but having/not having them is not what will make MMH6 a good or a bad game in the end. A bad game with gorgeous town screens will still be a bad game and likewise a good game with ugly town screens will still be good. Though the latter can be improved while the first not.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted April 08, 2011 04:19 PM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 16:20, 08 Apr 2011.
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Quote:
A bad game with gorgeous town screens will still be a bad game and likewise a good game with ugly town screens will still be good.
I don't get this.
Video games are a visual medium, won't terrible art direction decrease the overall quality of the game?
And can't broken game mechanics be fixed via patches?
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 08, 2011 04:53 PM |
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Quote:
Video games are a visual medium, won't terrible art direction decrease the overall quality of the game?
I know ugly games that are far better than their full 3D flashy rainbow counterparts. Sure playing a good game with nice graphics is more pleasant, but good graphics are far from defining the quality of a game.
Quote:
And can't broken game mechanics be fixed via patches?
Well, let's suppose that after a few monthes, it appears that the MMH6 resource system is an utter failure. How would you patch the lack of rare resources ? It's not a patch they'd need, it's either an xpack or a new game they'd need since it's a core mechanics of MMH6.
I don't mind the 2D Town Windows. I don't mind the 3D full screen Town Screens either but neither of them have have any impact on the gameplay which is THE core element of a game. No matter how gorgeous your game is, if the gameplay fails, the whole game fails and it's not 3D or full screen town screens that will save the game in that case (I'm more scared about the ugly interface)
As I said in the Discussion topic a while ago, I'm really appaled that people whine about town windows and simply don't care about the general streamlining of the serie : less resources, less faction, full control on hero developement, etc...which have FAR MORE impact on the game.
What makes this whole topic even dumber is that most people who are "oh so shocked!" about the town windows said that they'll still buy the game no matter what ... this just dulls your whole complaints. Why should Ubisoft change anything since you'll buy the game anyways like a good sheep ?
If there's something you dislike, you have 3 options :
1. be vocal about it and boycott the game if it isn't changed/removed
2. accept it as a part of the evolution of the game
3. don't care about it
All you're doing here is threatening Ubisoft of not being happy at them, but you'll still buy the game ! Boo! I'm sure they're scared ...
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted April 08, 2011 05:14 PM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 17:15, 08 Apr 2011.
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Quote:
I know ugly games that are far better
I know, I've played Gothic
Quote:
All you're doing here is threatening Ubisoft of not being happy at them, but you'll still buy the game ! Boo! I'm sure they're scared ...
Uh, are you referring to me here, or everyone complaining?
'Cuz I'm not threatening anyone, I won't buy the game,
and I know for a fact that they won't care.
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 08, 2011 05:20 PM |
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Quote:
Uh, are you referring to me here, or everyone complaining?
'Cuz I'm not threatening anyone, I won't buy the game,
and I know for a fact that they won't care.
No, it's the general "you"
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Synth
Hired Hero
That's a lady?
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posted April 08, 2011 05:29 PM |
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Quote:
Sure they're an immersion factor, but having/not having them is not what will make MMH6 a good or a bad game in the end. A bad game with gorgeous town screens will still be a bad game and likewise a good game with ugly town screens will still be good. Though the latter can be improved while the first not.
This is a much better way to articulate what I was trying to say.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted April 08, 2011 05:46 PM |
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I prefer good games with gorgeous town screens.
I don't see why we cannot have both
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DarkLord
Supreme Hero
Fear me..
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posted April 08, 2011 06:01 PM |
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hey hello! does ANYONE ask you to CHOOSE between town screens and anything else.. the answer is NO!!!!
So your point is kind of pointless really.. (sorry for my english)
The question is "would you like the town-screen as it used to be before"
OR
"you are happy with window pop-up's"???
...
the argument about what's more important is inappropriate!!! why???
as i told before.. let's remove the music as well..!!!! yei!!
make a ridiculous design of the creatures!!!
stupid interface!!!
this things doesn't affect the gameplay either..!
would you be happy as well!!!
of course NO, so stop being a hypocrite!!!
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Dark-Whisperer
Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
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posted April 08, 2011 06:18 PM |
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Heroes with bad town screens is not good game to me...
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted April 08, 2011 06:32 PM |
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Quote:
It's just that I'm trying to understand how 78 people can all of sudden be representing the whole community It's exactly like saying that 100 people voting on some random board for the Rakshasa stand for THE H5 community vote.
I know several communities that actually don't give a f*** about town screens because they don't affect your gameplay. Sure they're an immersion factor, but having/not having them is not what will make MMH6 a good or a bad game in the end. A bad game with gorgeous town screens will still be a bad game and likewise a good game with ugly town screens will still be good. Though the latter can be improved while the first not.
It's really hard to tell what represents the whole community so I'm using the available information. If you have much more posts and polls in favour of "let's have real town screens and not some stupid windows, OK?" on the Internetz, then at least you have some ground to claim that's what most of the people want. In any case it's more objective than to say that there is a huge silent mass out there that might have different opinion but just can't or won't share it for whatever reason. The official statistics about whatever you want are pretty similar - you find representatives of the focus groups you need and you ask them question and in the end you base your conclusions on no more than 5-10% of the whole audience which the inquired people represent. Still, you can find such "statistical information" everywhere, from how many people like to eat sandwiches with onion and chocolate, to how many people support the economical decisions of G8, etc. It's not a flawless mechanism but it's not exactly guessing either.
As for whether the game will be good or bad - most of the things have to be seen in action to render proper judgement. I have my fears and hopes about many things but prefer "field tests" first. The town windows however don't have to be "tested", they are an obvious bad idea as they don't introduce anything new to the game but only take from it something that many people liked.
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Synth
Hired Hero
That's a lady?
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posted April 08, 2011 10:39 PM |
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It's not as simple and clear cut as just saying well we can have both! AI and balance and bug fixing is a progressive thing and the more time that they are able to spend on it, the better it will be. There's is a limited amount of time left for the development team to work on this game before they release it. I would rather this limited time were spent making the game have better balance, AI and stability rather than better town screens.
However, bumping up the size just a bit wouldn't go amiss.
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Dark-Whisperer
Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
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posted April 08, 2011 10:49 PM |
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So now excuse is that developers don't have enough time to make decent town screens. Yet in all previous Heroes they somehow miraculously managed to finish them on time and even make them 3D in Heroes V.
Since when is "I didn't have enough time" excuse valid. Proper town screens should have been calculated in their schedule. And, btw, release date have been pushed for 3 months. Not enough time? I don't think so.
Flaws in AI, stability and balance in particular are best tested in beta or some other massive way of testing, not behind closed doors with few employees playing amongst themselves... I think that time could be better used on town screens. Better things to do? I don't think so.
And why everybody makes this town screen creation look like some mammoth task that takes ages and enormous resources to do it? Its not that complicated IMHO. Just one (only one) heroes fan rewrote entire AI code for Heroes V in a week and made it at least 3 times faster then before. Don't tell me that entire team with all available resources cant do better then that in few months and they had 3 years to develop this game.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted April 09, 2011 01:17 AM |
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Quote:
It's not as simple and clear cut as just saying well we can have both! AI and balance and bug fixing is a progressive thing and the more time that they are able to spend on it, the better it will be. There's is a limited amount of time left for the development team to work on this game before they release it. I would rather this limited time were spent making the game have better balance, AI and stability rather than better town screens.
However, bumping up the size just a bit wouldn't go amiss.
And town screens are the province of graphical designers, not programmers.
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mytheroes
Famous Hero
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posted April 09, 2011 08:51 AM |
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Would be funny if in the end town screen is actually in and the dev said "We know you would complain about town windows more than anything else so we use it to divert your complains from the other controversial issues"
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Alustor
Famous Hero
ooo da :)
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posted April 09, 2011 09:38 AM |
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Quote:
Would be funny if in the end town screen is actually in and the dev said "We know you would complain about town windows more than anything else so we use it to divert your complains from the other controversial issues"
i would LOVE it to be like that
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Synth
Hired Hero
That's a lady?
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posted April 09, 2011 01:12 PM |
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Quote:
Since when is "I didn't have enough time" excuse valid. Proper town screens should have been calculated in their schedule. And, btw, release date have been pushed for 3 months. Not enough time? I don't think so.
Who said it's valid or acceptable? Real life isn't a magic place where just because something isn't ideal that it can't happen, the schedule and plan will change based on feedback. "Should have been part of their original schedule" is an utterly worthless comment. There are limited resources available from now and I'd rather they spent them doing something more important.
Quote:
And town screens are the province of graphical designers, not programmers.
Not necessarily, a programmer has to build what a graphic designer designs.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted April 09, 2011 01:34 PM |
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Yeah c'mon guys just let them ship a mediocre product we'll eat it up anyways
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mancubus
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 09, 2011 03:08 PM |
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Synth, I still think this is getting you nowhere.
If story and AI are much more important and the developer (as they all) is in the state of limited resources, then e.g. why have five factions in the game? I mean, wouldn't four factions still probably make a "pretty decent" game, as long as we get somewhat smarter AI and more involving story?
See, I could give you tens of examples like this.
It is, of course, absolutely OBVIOUS that the whole game developing process is a matter of choices and to the extent, a matter of compromises, but keep in mind that your assumption about getting considerably better AI or story in exchange for getting rid of proper full screen interactive town screens is purely hypothetical. You're just hoping.
Your reasoning gives me the impression that if every game developer out there had ideology like yours, we, for example, actually wouldn't have any of those games with solid amount of cool little details i.e. versatility (I'm talking graphics or gameplay) to them, "cause there are much more important things to spend our limited resources on than all these little things". Right?
I'm glad that even IRL, "less important stuff" is often still important enough to be considered worthwhile and to be dealt with, despite the limit of resources we might consider.
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Dark-Whisperer
Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
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posted April 09, 2011 03:41 PM |
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If developers cornered themselves in situation when they have to cut corners and make half solutions because of lack of time they will not make good product and further more its sign of incompetence and bluntly its just embarrassing.
Many people here said that they would rather wait more and get perfect game then to get good game with some painful mistakes in it.
If they cannot deliver good AI and balance without sacrificing another part of the game we have to question quality of whole product.
Truly amazing game must pay attention on details as any other high polished product to be remembered, otherwise it will be just mediocre and forgotten soon. Heroes VI will be remembered as good game with awful town screens at best as things are now. We can still end up with town windows fiasco and idiotic story with slow AI. And town screens are not just unimportant detail but one of trademarks of this game, how you don't see that is beyond me.
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This thread is pages long: 
