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| Thread: First impression from Heroes 6 Beta NO SPOILERS |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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DarkLord
Supreme Hero
Fear me..
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posted June 25, 2011 11:47 PM |
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Will you please put the town screens debate to rest? You're 1.5 months into a game and what do you do, admire the town screens?
Town screens debate will be put into rest as soon as they FIX the town-windows and make them proper Town Screens.. Thank you
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted June 25, 2011 11:54 PM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 23:55, 25 Jun 2011.
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1. art direction.
5. Music - Nuff said.
Yes, the animation is exeptionally executed. The art direction and unit models not so much. The heroes look bland and traced lifeless compared to the first four games, and I know you don't but I see WOW-inspired creatures everywhere.
And the music, while good, doesn't come close to being particulary memorable, at least not from what I've heard.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted June 26, 2011 12:58 AM |
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There was almost no music to speak of in the beta, nothing to praise or dislike. Literally. The grass theme is there since... 1996.
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Now every factions' units feel and play like a team
Hardly every. And some creatures from the same tier belonging to different factions have too similar functions (if not the exactly the same). A lot of polishing and refinement will be needed in this department.
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Vangelis21
Supreme Hero
Manchild
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posted June 26, 2011 08:00 AM |
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I LOVE the music. very soothing and M A Y B E it will make me turn on the speakers after H5 that i didn't !
the creatures have a nice design, well most of them. I wasn't impressed by the sisters and some inferno units as well as some orc units. I like though other haven units and some amphibian units.
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Heroes VI is here and Necropolis is serious trouble!
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mfdoom
Hired Hero
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posted June 26, 2011 08:48 AM |
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I see WOW-inspired creatures everywhere.
Give me a vomit bag.
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted June 26, 2011 09:52 AM |
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Edited by MrDragon at 10:39, 26 Jun 2011.
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I see WOW-inspired creatures everywhere.
Give me a vomit bag.
Indeed.
Old, tired, bullshyt argument that cannot be proven or supported by facts. (and also is hard to debunk, making it infuriating, gonne give it a bash anyway)
Not saying I LOVE the creature art (it's a mixed bag for me), but I'm not gonne point a finger at WoW.
Example: Naga, it seems to be the biggest "similarity" for most people.
Now go look up Naga, their origins, history and cultures and myth where they are featured in art, stories or folklore.
"They stole it from WoW! derp!"
No, they simply took an existing myth and adapted it for their game, tweaking and altering it slightly to fit their setting. (not saying Ashan is a golden example of perfection as a setting... because it's not in my opinion.)
Despite, "Japanifying" the Naga, the Ashan Naga are a lot closer to the original mythological creature then WoW's Naga.
As for me an WoW... I played it, but I hate it for ruining Warcraft for me as a story. (WoW being an over-written piece of garbage from a story perspective, heck Warcraft: Orcs and Humans had a more compelling story and that was pretty damn simple.)
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Hardly every. And some creatures from the same tier belonging to different factions have too similar functions (if not the exactly the same). A lot of polishing and refinement will be needed in this department.
Going to agree with Zeno here, I can think of a few creatures (which I'm not going to name) that feel to much like an analog to creature X from faction Y.
Plenty that are nice and unique but also a couple that really need some polish and perhaps swap a different ability to set them apart.
I can think of 1 in every faction's core for example.
How damaging to gameplay a little similarity actually is... is debatable but I personally don't like it.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted June 26, 2011 10:29 AM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 10:42, 26 Jun 2011.
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Not saying they stole from WoW (which I loathe with a passion) or Warcraft in general,
I'm talking about the exaggerated "art style".
EDIT: I'll give you a few examples
- Popeye the sailor Kappa
- Female units all share the same expressions, which is either "bored" or "slightly confused".
- The vampires in their ridiculous gear.
- The ghoul, 'nuf said. Bring back the DMoM&M ghoul instead.
- The hellshrimps.
- The tormentor and maniac.
- The upgraded Lich.
EDIT 2: It's coo'.
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted June 26, 2011 10:35 AM |
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Edited by MrDragon at 11:37, 26 Jun 2011.
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Not saying they stole from WoW (which I loathe with a passion)
I'm talking about the exaggerated "art style".
Oh right, in that case I don't see the similarity and thus can't really comment on it.
Sorry about detonating there then.
Edit: Disagree on all count except the Vampire, which does indeed look completely rediculous.
HoMMII, III and V (despite the sword) all had better Vampires, this is the only one where I will even directly point my finger at Warcraft, Namely Arthas from Warcraft III in his death knight gear, complete with white hair and pansy face, then add Ner'Zuhl's helmet from the TFT ending cinematic and call it a day.
A Vampire does not need a sword, he's got teeth, claws and inhuman strength!
Doesn't need the Armor because he's fast, dextrous and regenerates his injuries!
Vampires need style, especially now that their image is being murdered by various media, give me a good ol' fashioned vampire, Nosferatu style, Dracula style or Carmilla style, all are tried and true working vampire concepts.
Edit: Oh and the Lich, Tormentor and Maniac, are ones I also hate but for different reasons.
But... we discussed that before.
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SoilBurn
Known Hero
BurnsSoil
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posted June 26, 2011 11:45 AM |
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Edited by SoilBurn at 12:16, 26 Jun 2011.
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Now every factions' units feel and play like a team
Hardly every. And some creatures from the same tier belonging to different factions have too similar functions (if not the exactly the same). A lot of polishing and refinement will be needed in this department.
Overstatement. There is not a single core unit from any faction that shares the exact same abilities with another one (I can think of some neutrals, but that is another story). This is the main strength of the game in this early stage and I am willing to defend it to the bitter end.
Hard facts:
- There are hardly any creatures that only "move" and "attack". Even the melee oriented units normally have some kind of cool ability that makes them tactically versatile. No more travesties like the H5 zombie, peasant, gargoyle, horned demon, golem... the list of vanilla units could go on and on and on and then some. And even if some units have a similar ability (e.g. "healing"), it usually comes with a large enough twist so that the unit feels and plays different (e.g. delayed vs. instant)
- Because of the above there are enough support abilities within the Core tier of each functions for the player to base an actual strategy around them. I cannot reveal any details, but both factions playable in the beta campaign team up like a charm (how can you not like the mixed blessing of the Sentinel's ability?.
I reserve judgment for Inferno and the Stronghold, which I did not test (the Necro lineup is an MVP though, excellent synergy there)
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There was almost no music to speak of in the beta, nothing to praise or dislike. Literally. The grass theme is there since... 1996.
My Winamp playlist would like to take you up on that. There were at least 5 distinct pieces of music in the beta, a couple of which not released as files from Ubi yet. The grass theme is admittedly the blandest among them, but that does not change the overall very high quality.
EDIT:
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Not saying they stole from WoW (which I loathe with a passion) or Warcraft in general,
I'm talking about the exaggerated "art style".
But still, it is less exaggerated than in H5. This is a step forward for me.
The art direction still feels somewhat exaggerated, but in a realistic, almost refined way.
Which I can live with, as opposed to exaggeration in a crude, cartoony way (WoW, King's Bounty, partially H5), which just destroys my whole gaming experience.
I am especially a big fan of the slender, idealized female models in H6 for the same reason - they feel like they came out of some mature fantasy graphic novel.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 26, 2011 12:12 PM |
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The only creature that I see as an obvious Warcraft copy is the Vampire because it looks exactly like Arthas back when he was the Lich King with the Helm of Domination.
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As for me an WoW... I played it, but I hate it for ruining Warcraft for me as a story. (WoW being an over-written piece of garbage from a story perspective, heck Warcraft: Orcs and Humans had a more compelling story and that was pretty damn simple.)
What do not you like of WoWs story? Sure, I really liked Warcraft 4 and I would really, really want a Warcraft 4 but WoW is an interesting way to evolve the story too. And the WoW story has GREATLY improved from Vanilla till Cataclysm. In Cataclysm we have the huge war in Lordaeron between the Forsaken using their own plague against the Alliance who wants to reclaim Lordaeron. Plus there are several hints that Sylvanas is becoming more and more like the old Lich King.
And in Central Kalimdor there is finally some war in Warcraft as the Alliance has started an offensive from Theramore and there is conflict everywhere in Southern Barrens, Stonetalon Mountains, Ashenvale, Azshara and Darkshore. Which ofc means that Jaina kind of betrayed the Horde, but then Thrall has much more important things to do now than being a warchief and take sides.
Its likely that he will become a temporary dragon aspect when Deathwing dies...
Oh, and then there is the whole Deathwing/Naga/Dragon/Cultist/Old God plot and connection with the event known as the Hour of Twilight, where the Old Gods will finally be released from their underground prisons. Plus the war against the elementals, pretty much all major Night elf lore characters are in Mount Hyjal to fight Ragnaros atm.
And then there are lots of hints of future lore such as the Naga planning to kill the Elemental lord of Water Neptulon to gain control over the sea and raise sunken Kalimdor to the surface again. And the Zandalari trying to restore the old Troll Empire in order to defend their island as they are going to be the first targets when the Naga decide to finally attack in their full force. The only Naga we have net in WoW are some small expeditionary forces (except for the quests in Vashj'ir where you get to become a Naga and witness their war effort in the zone).
Well now, back to Heroes of Might and Magic VI. 
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted June 26, 2011 12:54 PM |
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I feel the Warcraft lore post TFT is over-written, in a bad way.
I like to call it: "Plot Cancer" as opposed to "Plot Growth"
But I'm not going to go into the details.
Let's just say that I hope, that IF they make a Wacraft IV, they ignore EVERYTHING they wrote past TFT. (NEVER gonne happen, but it's my wish)
To me, almost everything that was interesting about Warcraft 1 through 3 was flushed down the toilet when Warcraft went MMO.
It drives me mad, not that WarcraftI-III was literrary gold, but it sure as hell was better then WoW.
Once more I'm not going into details, this is not the place for it.
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odium
Known Hero
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posted June 26, 2011 01:29 PM |
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It's a remastered version of an old HoMM2 theme. And a really good one, too. Nostalgic values, aww. Never played H2, haven't we?
Nope, I started in '98 with Heroes 3. Maybe playing other factions with their own theme will make the situation better. However, during Haven campaign it is very probable I will develop a phobia for piano
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mlai
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 26, 2011 03:25 PM |
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I want to say something defending the WoW art style: The big-hands, big-feet, big-head "W40K miniatures style".
You can say it's cartoony, etc. But it works in a game where you want to see all the details even when not zoomed in. You change everything to realistic proportions, and instantly the models become harder to see. Yes you can still see who is who, but you lose all the details unless you constant zoom in.
That's exactly what happened from Dawn of War 1 to Dawn of War 2.
Secondly, it's very hypocritical to point at H5 and say that, when you can look at H2 and see the same type of proportioning. Maybe you just don't notice it because it's quaint 2D sprites.
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted June 26, 2011 04:25 PM |
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- The ghoul, 'nuf said. Bring back the DMoM&M ghoul instead.
But it's based on the DM Ghoul. Just compare the concept arts.
____________
"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted June 26, 2011 04:30 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 16:50, 26 Jun 2011.
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Overstatement. There is not a single core unit from any faction that shares the exact same abilities with another one (I can think of some neutrals, but that is another story). This is the main strength of the game in this early stage and I am willing to defend it to the bitter end.
So what now, you want me to violate the NDA and tell you which creatures have abilities which are almost copy-pasted but with different names? Actually I can do it over a PM if you want.
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- There are hardly any creatures that only "move" and "attack". Even the melee oriented units normally have some kind of cool ability that makes them tactically versatile. No more travesties like the H5 zombie, peasant, gargoyle, horned demon, golem... the list of vanilla units could go on and on and on and then some. And even if some units have a similar ability (e.g. "healing"), it usually comes with a large enough twist so that the unit feels and plays different (e.g. delayed vs. instant)
That's only half-true. Some of the unupgraded Cores currently have abilities which they don't need and are there just for the sake of "look, it HAS an ability, it's not a bland Heroes III creature which just moves and attacks". Others have flagrantly overpowered abilities which will have to be nerfed if they are to be at least somewhat balanced with the rest of the coterie from the same tier. I've also spotted a few abilities which are so hard to use even against a semi-intelligent player that they badly need to be injected some practicality. In short - there is a potential but there is also MUCH to polish.
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I reserve judgment for Inferno and the Stronghold, which I did not test
Maybe that's why you haven't seen some of the most obvious imperfections. 
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My Winamp playlist would like to take you up on that. There were at least 5 distinct pieces of music in the beta, a couple of which not released as files from Ubi yet. The grass theme is admittedly the blandest among them, but that does not change the overall very high quality.
Yes, there is also one battle theme which is boring as hell but I suppose (actually I hope) it's a placeholder and some town themes which I didn't listen to because staying in the town... in the window with the bland pictures which appear when the hero enters the town is too painful for me, sorry.
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Kivo
Famous Hero
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posted June 26, 2011 05:46 PM |
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Edited by Kivo at 17:48, 26 Jun 2011.
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Ok i will start with the good things:
-Graphics are amazing!
-Battlefields are very unique
-Music is comftarble to listen to, although it is repetative ( what I mean is that it doesnt change after like 15min of gameplay.
- Hero portraits look cool, however they are all dressed up in their faction uniforms
-Loading times and time in between turns is imroved so you dont have to wait that long YAY! 
Now the negative things: There so many!
-Town screens suck!
- Creatures have way too much health so the battle is very long especially the siege + when I had like 50 sentinels I could only kill like 3 Preatorians out of about 10!
-no atmosphere at all
-inventory is a total mess
-it take ages for some units to move ( like harpy, griffin, lamasu and sister)
- the units are not emotive when they are attacked ( apart from the griffin who really shows that he is in pain when attacked)
- the advenure map feels very empty and so its quite boring and not exciting at all
- as there is not many resources you always have to use the same resources to buy each building
-after a short time of playing the game ( like after an hour ) I started to get a bit bored as there is nothing exciting because most of the stuff is repetative
- the buttons are very small, often I missed one and clicked the one which I didnt want to click on
- the creature stats are quite complicated and should be simplified or explained in more detail Also each creature should show ( in my opinion ) how much damage it can do because like ghost and all the other magic creatures dont show that
- the window in which you buy the buidlings looks very bad and definately needs a huge improvement
- some creatures from the same tier belonging to different factions have too similar functions
Some of the negative points were picked I picked out from the other people as I realized that they were included in the beta and that I also think that they need to br changed/improved.
Overall I give the BETA 2.5/10. Sorry!
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SoilBurn
Known Hero
BurnsSoil
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posted June 26, 2011 05:55 PM |
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Edited by SoilBurn at 17:55, 26 Jun 2011.
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I reserve judgment for Inferno and the Stronghold, which I did not test
Maybe that's why you haven't seen some of the most obvious imperfections.
Oh, is that where the copy/paste units come from? If yes then sorry, I must have missed those. Otherwise I only noticed some obvious repetition in the Neutrals, none outside of those.
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That's only half-true. Some of the unupgraded Cores currently have abilities which they don't need and are there just for the sake of "look, it HAS an ability, it's not a bland Heroes III creature which just moves and attacks". Others have flagrantly overpowered abilities which will have to be nerfed if they are to be at least somewhat balanced with the rest of the coterie from the same tier. I've also spotted a few abilities which are so hard to use even against a semi-intelligent player that they badly need to be injected some practicality. In short - there is a potential but there is also MUCH to polish.
"Polishing" is expected to be needed at this point. But the base is more than solid in my honest opinion. In fact, it is solid enough in order for me to be really happy about what they are making out of unit abilities in H6 (more, richer, innovative, synergetic)
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Yes, there is also one battle theme which is boring as hell but I suppose (actually I hope) it's a placeholder and some town themes which I didn't listen to because staying in the town... in the window with the bland pictures which appear when the hero enters the town is too painful for me, sorry.
If you turn off the screen while in the town the whole mood is actually quite bearable 
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Vangelis21
Supreme Hero
Manchild
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posted June 26, 2011 06:05 PM |
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If it is not a spoiler and if someone knows, can you tell me why I got only like 2-3 of each creature in third week? no weird week or something.
____________
Heroes VI is here and Necropolis is serious trouble!
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Tetsumonkai
Hired Hero
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posted June 26, 2011 06:11 PM |
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If it is not a spoiler and if someone knows, can you tell me why I got only like 2-3 of each creature in third week? no weird week or something.
Probably a bug.
Some days i didn't even get any gold.
For example:
Had a gold income of 10 000 per day at one time and only got 3 000 from it. And sometimes not getting Ore.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted June 26, 2011 06:18 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 18:19, 26 Jun 2011.
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If it is not a spoiler and if someone knows, can you tell me why I got only like 2-3 of each creature in third week? no weird week or something.
I think it's a bug. It happened to me a few times as well. The normal growth should be significantly higher.
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Oh, is that where the copy/paste units come from? If yes then sorry, I must have missed those. Otherwise I only noticed some obvious repetition in the Neutrals, none outside of those.
Not copy-pasted units, copy-pasted abilities. And no, not Stronghold and Inferno, at least in terms of duplicated abilities - they have other problems. Check for example the Cores of Haven and Necropolis (giving more hints will be too much for a public board).
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"Polishing" is expected to be needed at this point. But the base is more than solid in my honest opinion. In fact, it is solid enough in order for me to be really happy about what they are making out of unit abilities in H6 (more, richer, innovative, synergetic)
Like I said, this is not universally true. The synergy can not be observed in every faction and some abilities are very imperfect at this point - not just their stats but their very ideas. I hope the "real" beta will allow serious modifications to be made in this regard.
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If you turn off the screen while in the town the whole mood is actually quite bearable
"Bearable" is not something that I expect from a game - I am supposed to enjoy the thing, not to tolerate it and currently I can't even tolerate the blasted town interface (ALL of it, not just the stupid picture which looks far worse than a Heroes I town without any buildings).
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