Heroes of Might and Magic Community
visiting hero! Register | Today's Posts | Games | Search! | FAQ/Rules | AvatarList | MemberList | Profile


Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
[X] Remove Ads
LOGIN:     Username:     Password:         [ Register ]
HOMM1: info forum | HOMM2: info forum | HOMM3: info mods forum | HOMM4: info CTG forum | HOMM5: info mods forum | MMH6: wiki forum | MMH7: wiki forum
Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: Management - a part of Heroes
Thread: Management - a part of Heroes This thread is 5 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV
blizzardboy
blizzardboy


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Iceskating uphill
posted October 26, 2011 09:29 PM
Edited by blizzardboy at 21:50, 26 Oct 2011.

I disagree with the majority of stated points in the original post. The level of management involved in the game seems comparable to previous Heroes games, and on that note I would like to point out:

Heroes 6 is not an expansion. Heroes 6 is Heroes 6. It can, will, and should operate differently, otherwise there's not much of a point in having a new game apart from updating the graphics engine. Each Heroes game has a somewhat different style from another Heroes game, which is why I still buy and play the game. You don't make a new game in a series simply to try to improve upon the kinks in the last game. You make a new game.

I will agree that it would be more enjoyable to have some more varying factors for each town. This is part of the challenge that any game designer faces: having variety without compromising game balance. The more unique variables you have, the more difficult it becomes to balance the game.

Aside from that, what exactly makes the game simpler? Because there's now one rare resource instead of 4? I haven't minded this so far since having 4 unique resources simply means that you have to throw more junk on the adventure map that takes up space. I also think there's an added level of strategy to the game in that you now have to take forts in order to permanently claim the resources and barracks in the area, as opposed to cleaning up the mines with zergs of secondary heroes that run around the map with 1 peasant in their army.

About town conversions: I've also been enjoying that feature and I disagree that there is "no choice in the matter". I simply don't think you spent enough time in the game. As you're progressing through the map you're constantly forced to keep moving to get as many blood crystals as possible, and converting a town uses up even more of that precious resource. By the time you get your 2nd town it's safe to say that your original town isn't even close to being finished (unless you're playing at a very slow pace ), so converting the 2nd town means that you're not going to be getting that elite dwelling for your first town, not to mention that if you lose the town and it gets converted back, you'll have to spent even more blood crystals to convert it again

In the very late game, it's of course obvious that you should convert all of your towns to one cohesive faction, but at that point, who cares? The early game and mid game are what are strategically important. Once you control 6 of the 8 towns on the map and your hero is massively more powerful than the enemy hero, then it really doesn't matter anymore. At that point you're just finishing up the game for satisfaction sake. Conversation also adds an "empire building" concept to game that I never felt existed in previous Heroes game. As opposed to controlling a bunch of diametrically opposed factions, which thematically doesn't make a whole lot of sense, you can actually build a nation as such.

So conversations add another layer to the choices you have to make: whether you want to push for zergs of base creatures or whether you want to go for getting elites as soon as possible

I also wouldn't roll out the value of secondary heroes. Yes, you can teleport around from town to town with a single main hero, but once again, building those teleporters takes blood crystals. Building an early game teleporter means that you're not going to be building an elite creature dwelling. Also on a large custom map, I've already discovered that it's a cumbersome pain in the arse to teleport my main hero around to prevent towns from getting claimed, so having a minimum of one extra hero with respectable sized force was necessary if I didn't want to be wasting my time using up my main hero's turns to constantly play cat and mouse with the enemy.
____________
High end potatoes

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
B0rsuk
B0rsuk


Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
posted October 27, 2011 06:45 AM

Quote:

Heroes 6 is not an expansion. Heroes 6 is Heroes 6. It can, will, and should operate differently, otherwise there's not much of a point in having a new game apart from updating the graphics engine.



Then call it a new game. Change the name to King's Bounty or something else. There's no reason to call this game Heroes of Might and Magic (or similar) other than corporate greed. Publishers try very hard to establish "franchises". Forget about spiritual successors, that's so 90.

Quote:

You don't make a new game in a series simply to try to improve upon the kinks in the last game. You make a new game


On the contrary, you do exactly that or you change the name. Otherwise you're misleading people in the name of money.

____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5um8QWWRvo RSA Animate - Smile or die

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted October 27, 2011 08:50 AM
Edited by MattII at 08:52, 27 Oct 2011.

Quote:
I also think there's an added level of strategy to the game in that you now have to take forts in order to permanently claim the resources and barracks in the area, as opposed to cleaning up the mines with zergs of secondary heroes that run around the map with 1 peasant in their army.
Except that taking the fort is now the only option if you want those resources.

Quote:
About town conversions: I've also been enjoying that feature and I disagree that there is "no choice in the matter". I simply don't think you spent enough time in the game. As you're progressing through the map you're constantly forced to keep moving to get as many blood crystals as possible, and converting a town uses up even more of that precious resource. By the time you get your 2nd town it's safe to say that your original town isn't even close to being finished (unless you're playing at a very slow pace ), so converting the 2nd town means that you're not going to be getting that elite dwelling for your first town, not to mention that if you lose the town and it gets converted back, you'll have to spent even more blood crystals to convert it again
Sorry, don't spend enough time in the game? All that you've mentioned is the short-term reasons for not converting. In the long term, not converting leaves you with a towns worth of production that is useless to your main hero. 3 towns with exclusive armies are going to really struggle against 3 towns with a universal army.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
blizzardboy
blizzardboy


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Iceskating uphill
posted October 27, 2011 06:06 PM
Edited by blizzardboy at 18:12, 27 Oct 2011.

@Matt:

Quote:
Except that taking the fort is now the only option if you want those resources.


No it isn't. You can camp at a mine with a hero to siphon resources from it. I've already done before while my main hero was occupied elsewhere.

Quote:
Sorry, don't spend enough time in the game? All that you've mentioned is the short-term reasons for not converting. In the long term, not converting leaves you with a towns worth of production that is useless to your main hero. 3 towns with exclusive armies are going to really struggle against 3 towns with a universal army.


The short term and mid term reasons are the only reasons that are strategically relevant. Yes, in the long term when you have enough resources you should convert everything, but that is almost the equivalent of complaining about how there isn't a reasonable option between choosing to build creature dwellings or not choosing to build creature dwellings. The point is that as you're progressing through the game, instantly converting a town once you conquer it is not necessarily going to be your first managerial priority.
____________
High end potatoes

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted October 27, 2011 07:40 PM

Quote:
Change the name to King's Bounty or something else


KB sucks, it has no multiplayer

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
malax83
malax83


Famous Hero
Game ranger, HotA Player
posted October 30, 2011 10:29 PM

why wouldn t there limit recruitment of units per day and type of castle?

sorry for asking ... why teleport is so fast ? why can we all teleport our hero in one castle ?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Aosaw
Aosaw


Promising
Famous Hero
Author of Nonreal Fiction
posted October 30, 2011 11:10 PM

Quote:
Quote:

Heroes 6 is not an expansion. Heroes 6 is Heroes 6. It can, will, and should operate differently, otherwise there's not much of a point in having a new game apart from updating the graphics engine.



Then call it a new game. Change the name to King's Bounty or something else. There's no reason to call this game Heroes of Might and Magic (or similar) other than corporate greed. Publishers try very hard to establish "franchises". Forget about spiritual successors, that's so 90.

Quote:

You don't make a new game in a series simply to try to improve upon the kinks in the last game. You make a new game


On the contrary, you do exactly that or you change the name. Otherwise you're misleading people in the name of money.



I agree.  There's only one franchise that has successfully rebooted itself with every iteration - Final Fantasy - and that's only because it reboots itself every time.

Maybe H6 should be called "Might and Magic:  Epic".  It's a simple game of "acquire the most units and level up your main hero", and not a whole lot else.  Nothing wrong with that.

And then release a proper Heroes 6, which builds upon previous iterations rather than scrapping them and starting from scratch in the name of "reinventing the franchise".

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted November 03, 2011 10:50 AM

Agree with this....just conquer lost of towns and buildup your troops and hero level and you'll sail through the campaigns....seems too easy. Wonder why Marzhin made such cool maps for H5 Legends of the Ancients which were quite difficult and you had to strategise really hard to complete the maps, and here in H6 everything is easy....

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
B0rsuk
B0rsuk


Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
posted November 03, 2011 01:31 PM

A popular rule of thumb for sequels is:

1/3 old,
1/3 new,
1/3 improved.

Where does Heroes fit in that ? It has the "new" part, but which is the "old" part ? Hard to identify. Ubisoft's Heroes games have about as much in common as stereotypical modern FPS.

-------------

Technically, they have changed the name. From Heroes of Might and Magic to Might and Magic: Heroes.... 6. They're trying to have a cookie and eat it.

If they wanted to start from scratch, "Might and Magic: Heroes 1" would do the job and would be more honest. It would still remind people of HOMM games. But no, they have to add "6" on the end, misleading people into believing the game has much in common with older ones.
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5um8QWWRvo RSA Animate - Smile or die

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Avirosb
Avirosb


Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
posted November 03, 2011 02:05 PM

They want to do their own thang, and simultaneously cater to veteran fans, which means 'overhauled management system' and 'ZOMG, legacy heroes and remade music '.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted November 03, 2011 03:07 PM
Edited by Nelgirith at 15:08, 03 Nov 2011.

Quote:
Agree with this....just conquer lost of towns and buildup your troops and hero level and you'll sail through the campaigns....seems too easy. Wonder why Marzhin made such cool maps for H5 Legends of the Ancients which were quite difficult and you had to strategise really hard to complete the maps, and here in H6 everything is easy....

This has absolutely nothing to do with the maps, it's the game mechanics that are poor. No matter how much work Marzhin puts on the maps, if the game sucks, it sucks. He can't make any miracle.

For example, if you removed the shared growth pool from H6, most of the campaigns would be significantly harder.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted November 03, 2011 05:13 PM

Agreed, shared growth pool should be taken away...

Either that or to not have so many forts and castles...make more lakes, fields and hills that you have to go around and spacious areas

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Brukernavn
Brukernavn

Hero of Order
posted November 08, 2011 01:08 AM

Can anyone tell me if shared creature pool can be turned off in custom games?

It's no surprise that this was not a well-thought out idea. After all, they initially wanted all the creatures of the same tier to share the same pool. I.e. Cores = 1 pool, Elites = 1 pool and Champions = 1 pool. This would have been a total disaster, and I'm glad they never went for the idea. But what we have now is just a remnant of that original concept.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted November 08, 2011 10:19 AM

Quote:
Can anyone tell me if shared creature pool can be turned off in custom games?

No, you can't. It's a "key" feature of the dumbing down of H6

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Jump To: « Prev Thread . . . Next Thread » This thread is 5 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV
Post New Poll    Post New Topic    Post New Reply

Page compiled in 0.0519 seconds