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| Thread: Useful skills and useless skills |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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no1joe
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 10, 2012 01:53 AM |
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Edited by no1joe at 02:39, 10 Jan 2012.
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>>>Diplomacy: I don't have much experience with this skill but I believe it to be a skill that is at extremes: it's either too weak or it can destroy balance. I won't comment on it too much but IMO, I would remove it together with Mentoring.<<<
i would like more information on what this does..ive found gaining reputation really hard and was hoping this skill helps. Q's
does diplomat only work for creatures willing to join or does it work for maiking them flee in awe
are the creature agression states used for diplomat skill and in what order? my guess is agressive, hostile, hatred. i discovered since you can just retreat any battle i can just see if they are going to flee
dont suppose the rule includes leadership and destiny in the calculation? i think it should.
Ive played all the games and never really knew how it worked so it could be the same as the others but i guess i never really cared, but now with reputation i do.
Oh and i heard that some usable skills add to reputation has anyone made a list of which ones do and by how much?..cuz ive tried and havent found anything to add to reputation
whats with the massive cooldowns on spells? there not that effective anyway. 4 cooldown on heal? 3 cooldown on firebolt etc wtf..there should at least be a prime skill to reduce cooldowns...is there any way to reduce them in the game?
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted January 12, 2012 07:20 AM |
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Diplomat only works for joining probability and not for making them flee. Think it works similar to H5 (size of army, enemy aggression status, same faction).
Leadership and destiny are not included in the calculation for diplomacy.
Spell cooldowns are great, they balance the game better. There is no way to reduce the cooldown period in the game.
What do you mean by usable skills adding to reputation, do you mean in battle by how much a skill increases reputation points?
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hobo2
Promising
Known Hero
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posted January 12, 2012 01:31 PM |
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Every Tears skill adds to Tears Reputation when it is activated. Every Blood skill adds to Blood Reputation when it is activated. Note that Passive Skills are never activated and don't add to anything.
Cooldowns are a requirement for people to do anything other than spam their favorite skill. As is, since there is no way to use more than one skill in a round, there is very little purpose to be served in even knowing more than 6 active skills. If spells and warcries did not have cooldowns, you'd get by with like 1 or 2 on most characters. As is, characters have a lot of extra skill points and end up flushing them on passive abilities that are hardly noticeable like +5% damage against large units or +2 Destiny. Once you have enough active skills to use one every single round of combat, you simply might as well buy passive abilities even though they are terribad.
Now there is another issue with blasting spells, which is that they are awful. Firebolt just isn't worth spending mana on, let alone the skill point it costs. And that's if it works normally. Which let's face it: it rarely does because all of the units of two entire factions (out of five) have resistance to Firebolt. Even attack spells with potentially useful rider effects like Ice Bolt (which negates all the movement of a unit for one round) has no effect at all on any unit from the entire Sanctuary faction. And that's on top of specific immunities like how the Pit Fiend also ignores the root effect of ice bolt. Agony may be nice in a siege, but it doesn't even trigger if your enemies are Necropolis. Even if they didn't cost mana, an upgrade to your basic attack that is only usable a couple times a battle and is not worth using if your enemies come from the wrong faction are just not good expenditures of skill points. And that's even including the fact that you have so few things to spend skill points on that you're seriously considering buying extra magic defense instead.
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted January 12, 2012 03:45 PM |
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Edited by Lexxan at 15:46, 12 Jan 2012.
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I never take blasting spells. I never actually find use for them, and the damage they deal can be healed fairly easily. The only interesting damaging spell imo is Mass Agony, and even that spell is not a priority, but an endgame option for a Blood Magic Hero.
I'd much rather be inclined to take a mid carder like Archery II, Mana Drain, Reinforcements II, Pressed Attack, Counterstrike, Retribution Aura, Mass Burning Determination, Mass Stoneskin/Mass Ice Armor, etc. Skills that aren't a priority, but can be VERY usefull assets to acquire in anticipation of unlocking skills of the third.
Also, I played a single-player game with a Deathknight as a main (Necro/Might/Blood) and yikes, Pressed attack + Liches (or in early game, Skeletons) is scary as hell. That Necromancy gauge fills up very rapidly. (with that tactic I was able to use Necromancy IV - Expert Necromancy in a 3x3 radius) twice in a siege that lasted only SIX ROUNDS, ending the battle with losing only about 20 Vampires. (with any enemy Sactuary army of around 300 of each core, 100 of each elite + 45something Sacred Kirins)
Scary.
Edit: another thing that I noticed is that Heroic Charge doesn't work on Undead units.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted January 13, 2012 07:22 AM |
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There is one blasting spell that I like: Lightning bolt. Best spell for early creeping large enemy stacks.
@ Lexxan -> still think Necromancy racial ability needs to be toned down....(together with pressed attack)
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 13, 2012 08:36 AM |
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Quote:
Cooldowns are a requirement for people to do anything other than spam their favorite skill. As is, since there is no way to use more than one skill in a round, there is very little purpose to be served in even knowing more than 6 active skills. If spells and warcries did not have cooldowns, you'd get by with like 1 or 2 on most characters. As is, characters have a lot of extra skill points and end up flushing them on passive abilities that are hardly noticeable like +5% damage against large units or +2 Destiny.
As I see it, cooldowns were added to make up for the fact that what was previously high level spells that required many prerequisites (ressources, skills as well as luck in achieving them) now are readily available from level 1. Of course people are going to spam them if they were able to.
I understand that cooldowns were probably a necessary means to make the new skill system work, but on the bottom line, what it comes down to for me was that making pick-whatever-spell-you-want a bad mechanism. Preventing me from using whatever spell is best in the situation by adding an annoying cooldown that I'll have to kill time to work around does not make the game more fun for me.
Anyway, that was a rant by me. More and better passive skills would probably be a good thing.
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What will happen now?
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted January 13, 2012 10:14 AM |
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I agree partly Alcibiades, cooldowns are there for balance purposes. Imagine in H5 if Warlock couldn't cast Empowered Deep Freeze every turn, it would have balanced things out a little.....
But I agree that choosing any spell you want a bad system. Choosing skills and abilities is fine, but spells should be like the old ways: need particular magic school, magic guild with spells in it, etc.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted January 13, 2012 10:23 AM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 10:24, 13 Jan 2012.
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Reducing/removing the cooldown of the the direct-damage spells will certainly help the balance if they don't want to boost their damage. Alternatively, a mid/high level skill can be introduced which gets rid of this cooldown - something like the Heroes V version of Sorcery. The latter will also deal with the scaling problem - too powerful direct-damage spells at the beginning (not that there are any such at the moment) and too weak later on.
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Demonge
Known Hero
more than meets the eyes
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posted January 13, 2012 11:42 AM |
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I play H6 for some weeks now, but I still am in the first stronghold map (after tutorials completion). In a nutshell, I really find this Heroes is sloooooooooooowwwwwww...
I never got that feeling with any of previous ones', even when playing H2 today. But now, with cooldowns, big maps, huge stacks... all seems really slow.
There's lot of thing that are not really important, but put together end up with that result. The Mana Wells for instance, that we can visit now only once a week. Or the lack of resources on the map (of course, because we only have 4 now) as well as the one of some map special locations (you know, watermill, wee folk...).
In the end, I often don't launch the game because of this.
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Wait a second! I'm not big-boned, I'm just fat!
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted January 14, 2012 03:26 PM |
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Quote:
@ Lexxan -> still think Necromancy racial ability needs to be toned down....(together with pressed attack)
No kidding. Pressed Attack tends to do even MORE damage than the stack it is cast upon. (I tried it with 60 Furies and the stack damage literally DOUBLED :eek . This in combination with gauge-increasing hero attacks like Necro and Strongholds, it's getting downright ludicrous.
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hobo2
Promising
Known Hero
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posted January 14, 2012 05:24 PM |
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Pressed Attack appears to be bugged. The bonus attack does more damage than the basic attack that it is supposed to be replicating. And there is no documentation to explain that or why that would happen. My pet theory is that it is adding the might of the stack to your hero's might when calculating hero strike. But since it's undocumented and doesn't tell you what the damage range is (because you don't get to target the pressed attack), I can't really tell.
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jhb
Famous Hero
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posted January 15, 2012 05:19 PM |
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talking about the direct dmg spells..
A thing I really miss from Heroes V was those "half turn consuming" abilities and the sorcery skill. I think there are some good direct damage spells in Heroes vi, the problem is you are limited to 1 action per turn and support/healing is more important now that it was before.
Another thing, they could change a part the chilled effect: change the 20% vulnerability to fire to 10% vulnerability to magic, making water magic a little more interesting like I said in another thread.
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted January 16, 2012 07:22 AM |
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Yes, support/healing is more important now that it was before, but you don't want to abuse it, as it's unfair to rely on healing all the time, one should focus on minimal troop losses, this is more strategic than simply healing, one of the reasons I don't like necro so much!
Jhb = Johannesburg?
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted January 16, 2012 08:35 AM |
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Oh, Necro is absolutely ridiculous in that department.
I fumbled largely on Anastasya's ability three (getting fairly useless skills like Economist I or Arcane Training), but yet in the final campaign map I was able to recover nearly ALL my losses through Mass Regeneration, Mass Life Drain and Eternal Servitude Altars, save for 20 Ghosts and 1 Lich which I lost before building the altar in my main town. Uriel was -literally- a cakewalk afterwards with my conserved army of 1.5 Skellies, 1k Ghouls/Ghosts, 680 Liches, 450 Vamps/Lamassus and 240 Fate Weavers. Yikes!
It is insane.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted January 16, 2012 11:45 AM |
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Quote:
Yes, support/healing is more important now that it was before, but you don't want to abuse it, as it's unfair to rely on healing all the time, one should focus on minimal troop losses, this is more strategic than simply healing, one of the reasons I don't like necro so much!
Jhb = Johannesburg?
Losing troops to neutrals just isn't fun.  Forcing players to would just make them search for the biggest AI exploits to creep without loses, which only the best (or: most bored) players would know to execute properly, making a massive technical gap between players. You know, like homm3 times
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted January 16, 2012 12:46 PM |
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Well, now those who play with the two factions without healers/home-grown healing abilities have to exploit these gaps so it's not very different, except that they have to keep up with the "healing ones".
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Demonge
Known Hero
more than meets the eyes
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posted January 16, 2012 01:33 PM |
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Is Retribution Aura really worth it?
I have not tried to reach level III but it sounds rather great...
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Wait a second! I'm not big-boned, I'm just fat!
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted January 16, 2012 02:55 PM |
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Quote:
Well, now those who play with the two factions without healers/home-grown healing abilities have to exploit these gaps so it's not very different, except that they have to keep up with the "healing ones".
That's why I think all factions should have healing
Well they sort of have. In beta I always started with hero with regeneration spell when playing stronghold and inferno. Not viable anymore?
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted January 16, 2012 03:07 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 15:09, 16 Jan 2012.
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It is, but doesn't help much against significantly larger groups of neutrals which the factions with healers (or Necromancy on top of it) can engage and dispatch without losses. Also Regeneration is a wasted skill point if you decide to go for Blood hero. Reinforcements is somewhat better investment but again favours the Tear heroes more.
Quote:
Is Retribution Aura really worth it?
Apart from killing 20-30% of the enemy army once fully upgraded, it doesn't do much.  I haven't tested it after the last patch though.
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted January 16, 2012 05:20 PM |
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I've decided to restart my Haven Campaign after giving Anton some really poor skills to work with, and I'm restarted as a Cleric (going for Confessor here because Inquisitors SUCK!)
I'm planning to test Retribution Aura whilst doing so, so I'll keep you guys tuned.
btw for some reason Heroic Charge doesn't seem to work on flying creatures at all! -___-
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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