|
|
LichKing
Honorable
Known Hero
|
posted November 21, 2001 02:09 AM |
|
|
be nice, Moc
Quote:
I know there is a small clique of people who like to call stripping the game of all strategy is called "honor" and maybe you were looking for some pats on the back from that lil group.
I don't look for 'pats on the back' from anyone. I don't need anyone's approval.
I don't think what I did in that game was 'dishonorable' at all. I used the resources I had available to win it. I didn't cheat or say/do anything dishonest.
BUT, what I did to Red simply sucked. That's all. I could have nuked him once or twice and then started Ressurecting my other troops and fought a good long battle with him, but I didn't. His catapult was dead and I rather imagine he would have spent his spells on Animating rather than Earthquake, so I would have been pretty well protected for a while.
We spent over 6 hours in that game, and I ruined the whole thing with the way I ended it. What would have been a very fun game for us both was stopped short of reaching its full potential. Not much fun in that at all, I think.
And the reason I feel crappy about it is I know how I would have felt in were I in his shoes. I would have taken it as gracefully as he did, of course, but it still would have sucked big time.
____________
SOUND THE CHARGE!! INTO GLORY RIDE!!!
|
|
Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
|
posted November 21, 2001 02:58 AM |
|
|
The dif between 1st day rush and H&R
You can counter H&R because your hero is mobile, that makes a huge dif, a town is not mobile. So if there person is very good and it's a smaller/medium, type map, 1st day rush really isn't counterable in my opinion. Especially if it's early in the game and you have limited gold to buy intercepting heroes from on the map taverns.
|
|
vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
|
|
posted November 21, 2001 05:17 AM |
|
|
since when did it become a bad thing
when being attacked in town as the defender, its a wonderful thing to be able to take out the catapault, and hence stop the breakage of your wall. Ive only won 2 games like that if I recall, but usually its averted by the wall breaking open before I could destroy said ballista, or the opponent has earthquake.
Anyways, saying that its a tactic, and not an unfair one!
Also day 1 red rushes have been going on since the beginning of time, since heroes I. I believe rules have really pushed out to the max because never before has so many games been played by so many people until TOH came about; when you got tens of thousands of games and players, more rules tend to pop up and solidify.
____________
|
|
thecastrated
Famous Hero
|
posted November 21, 2001 07:50 AM |
|
|
Response to suggestion
While reading through this thread I noted that a person has advocated H4 being programmed to not allow surrendering/retreating if both guys have not moved at least once..to prevent hit and run.
Believe it or not there will still be players who complain. I played with a col. once, who stated x x x prerequirements on surrendering/retreating; I abided by it ALL and he still called it hit n run! To think that he still had supporters. Till this date I received no apology though...so the conclusion is perhaps that no matter how you define or list certain things there will just still be those people who complain.
____________
|
|
haile73
Promising
Famous Hero
|
posted November 21, 2001 01:14 PM |
|
|
Elemental clarification
Since the elemental topic has been brought up, I would like to ask some questions about it
The following happened to me in a game a few days ago:
hg2 map, big battle week 4, my stats better (almost equal, except for defense, because of shield). He was necro and brought arch magi joiners (=cheaper spell costs), I had implosion (2400 damage). I guess I would have won the battle if there wasn't the summon elemental spell. He casted it twice (120+ water elementals each). I prefered not to summon elementals, instead casting implosion. It was quite obvious that I would run out of spell points sooner, so my strategy would have been to kill his "normal army" and surrender then (I had shackles, but didn't put them on).
So here are my q's:
Let's first assume he wasn't necro (not sure how the skeleton thing works in this situation)
- do you consider my strategy unfair? (don't like the term "dishonorable")
- if I did this successfully, would his main be dead and gone (=no arties and not directly re-recruitable)?
If he IS necro:
- would skeletons be arised and therefore his hero remaining on the map?
- do you consider my strategy unfair in this case?
Btw: me and my opponent haven't been sure how to handle that matter - and so we agreed on a draw after a few more battlerounds
|
|
hexa
Responsible
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted November 21, 2001 01:40 PM |
|
|
1) I wouldn’t consider it unfair … he made the choice to summon .. not you, so he’s got to live with the
consequences.
2) His main would be gone…I know because I just recently aksed the same question.
3) Even if he’s necro his main would be wasted.
Not unfair … just a different strategy.
____________
If you want to realize your dreams >>> you have to wake up!@
|
|
Antal
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted November 21, 2001 02:20 PM |
|
|
People dont like lose games. And then its happens try find reasons why it happened , like h/r and etc.
Looks like they first time heard about such possibles 
If follow his logic black dragon from refuge too cheap tactic . Boys , luck just part of this game . I'm dont like just bc somebody got better magic in magic guild , but i always will try find ways for fight vs such sutuations.
Need try learn how playing vs hit and run . Game give this possibles .
Just try play better !
____________
|
|
andiangelsla...
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
|
|
posted November 21, 2001 02:42 PM |
|
|
for my side, i dont want a rule against hitnrun coz im afreid of loosing to it, i want it coz i dont enjoy playing with it.
i dont like when its used against me, i dont like to use it myself, im someone who wants to use the army, skills and spells i built up in a battle that lasts some rounds (ok, sometimes its unbalanced and it lasts only 2 rounds).
if i loose such a battle i had fun and i dont mind, but if my opponent has speed boots, a log hero, a good spell and a archangel, and hits me again and again, this is no fun.
about playing better against it, sometimes you have the chance to counter it maybe, i think in most cases you dont, but it dun matter, what matters is that its no fun.
same goes for people that sit in town for days or weeks, and just click end turn, and when you get sick of it they destroy your catapult, i would never do that, if my opponent stands outside my castle with a legion skels...so what?
i come out, fight and die prolly, and feel better than a wimp that is hiding behind walls and destroys catapults, better to die than being a pain in the ass to your opponent.
the point is, rules are not to avoid losses, rules are to have fun in the game, with most players you can agree to some rules easy and they wont break them, some idiots do, well thats too bad than, put em on no-play-list
|
|
Defreni
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted November 21, 2001 03:11 PM |
|
|
Hehee, I wholeheartedly agree with u there Andi
If u want some rules, make them so u and ur opponent enjoy the game more, not so u can win the game.
I personally prefer no rules, coz I have had some rather nasty incidents with ppl that I didnt know, and they wanted some rules. I offcourse agrees to them, and have a miserable game, coz my opponent knew off some loophole to his own rule, and made good use of it.
I learned something from that, and now I just walk away from such a game.
Like the upgraded Naturalist philo dude, who wanted us to play with no joiners at all. I wasnt upgraded at the time. How the hell am I supposed to counter his war unicorn in week 1 as castle?
Hmm, Im digressing here, better stop
As to the summon thing. Well I kinda like summon, and well its some of the only times I do actually draw some games.
Once me and my opponent spent over 100.000 gold combined and neither of us found our mains again. So we called it a draw, lol.
Defreni
____________
|
|
jex
Known Hero
|
|
posted November 21, 2001 09:51 PM |
|
|
Haile73: Different things happen at the end of a fight when just elementals left. I suggest you test out each situation, I did. I learned that when you win a fight with just elementals your hero dies. This only happens when his hero dies as well. If you retreat when only elementals left, you will be in tavern. If you have only elementals left, and your opponent retreats(your opponent's situation), your hero will be in the tavern.
You only die when you kill his hero too. Thus making all the draws, hehe.
Andi: Summonning can work great at teaching people not to sit in the castle, as you can summon their boring-cheap arses to death. And teach them sitting on a castle can be very foolish sometimes.
I have found one situation where sitting on a castle destroying catapluts can mean game over. Thats when your opponent has recanters and shackles, he destroys cataplut. And you cant cast teleport or earthquake  This is a little cheap imo.
|
|
jex
Known Hero
|
posted November 21, 2001 09:55 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Like the upgraded Naturalist philo dude, who wanted us to play with no joiners at all. I wasnt upgraded at the time. How the hell am I supposed to counter his war unicorn in week 1 as castle?
Hmm, Im digressing here, better stop
I want to hear the digression sometime.....hehehe
Maybe in zone 
|
|
Redstorm_Ent...
Hired Hero
Entertainer
|
posted November 22, 2001 05:29 AM |
|
|
lich
ok, first off i would like to say that it is very nice of you to write me an apology. But really none is needed. I was a rookie at randoms and you took out at least 2 more utopias then I did. I thought you played a smart match and deserved victory. there was big difference in the way that you used armmageddon then the way I would have used it that game. I had a dungeon built with 9 black drags so if I wanted to I could split them for an even more cheaper hit and run. But thats not right, the way your defence was so high that game that my skels were very weak so overall you woulda beat me without arma. But im not into going around yelling at people for hitting and running, I play with mocara for crying out loud.
|
|
Redstorm_Ent...
Hired Hero
Entertainer
|
|
posted November 22, 2001 05:44 AM |
|
|
mocara
in our game it was a little different you tried to hit and run me with a chain lightning but the beautiful unicorns gave some great resistance to troops and we defended against two shots of it. Then I came up and blinded your archer before you could retreat which won me the game. That was funny =)
|
|
thecastrated
Famous Hero
|
|
posted November 22, 2001 12:26 PM |
|
|
As I have mentioned..
For the issue about whether hit n run is 'wrong', the H3 players all cant reach a consensus, I agree. But the thing is EVEN IF hit and run is wrong, certain idiots will still complain on the next level.
For example I once played with a certain col. HE HIMSELF mentioned that defender can surrender/retreat only in round 2, and no hit and run. So the game continued happily till a point where I broke through.
HE attacked me. He didnt have any good spells like ressurection becoz he spent all res. building another castle. So a point came , in round 2 that is ,where I was FORCED to surrender, becoz if I didnt I would have lost my hero.
1)I surrendered in a defensive manner.
2)I abided by what HE said.
And yet he still can call me unhonourable!!??
Well, most people here will define hit and run with using 1 faster unit of army, then just hit 1 round and retreat.
3)This time I hired all the army I could, having only minimal army left(5 drags with main)
4)In round 2, he had the faster unit, ie. efreet sultan + expert haste since he spent res. on another castle but not mage.
Until now people will mainly just call hit n run only with using a faster unit, 1 arch a or something and go on hitting the other guy's army till they have none left.
When hit and run is not allowed, they will go on to the next level: by calling the case where the defender stayed more than 1 round, where the main armies(all the lvl 7s I had) were used, where at a certain point the attacker had the faster unit ,ie. in round 2 the attacker started first, where the defender had no choice but to surrender or he would have died ,where the defender abided by the specifics that the attacker himself stated a hit and run.
He even implied that he would not have called it a hit and run if he had good spells like resurrection to counter it. So blaming me for his strategy of building 2 infernos?
So even if all people who prefer no rules agree to the 'rulers', they will just go on to the next step.
Yeah..these people may call it 'no fun'. I do know losing is no fun
NB. Although I won eventually, we both didnt report.
____________
|
|
eliogabalus
Hired Hero
|
|
posted November 22, 2001 05:37 PM |
|
|
Dishonorable summoning elemetals while having shackles?
No way.
Isn't it funny that the same people who came up with this view prefer might heroes? 
____________
|
|
wiggy_wam
Promising
Famous Hero
local pirate
|
|
posted November 23, 2001 12:53 AM |
|
|
those who propose rules like the "no joiners at all" are scared.
Scared of what? Scared of the opponent finding ONE advantage over them. Some propose rules like "no lvl4 heroes" because they are scared the opponent will find THAT advantage over them. Same applies with "no logist, no diplo", and all others.
They are scared that you will have a better hero than them ... and they call that unfair? not fun?
They all share one common thing ... eliminating THAT possible advantage that YOU may have, and FORCE you to go without that advantage, just so that you may maintain your "honor".
I do not find these proposing of "rules" honorable anymore. In fact, I declare them as BS! Since when is it lawful for one to take away another's possible LEGAL advantage because of one man's "rule"?
These rules are not used as a tool of honor, they are used as a tool of advantage. Like the rule of no diplomacy when opponent recieves Ryland, or the rule of "no 4th level spells at all" when opponent is Tower...
Or the rule of no hit & run when opponent recieves solmyr/ deemer/ aislin.
All these examples deny the opponent to their rightful, legal advantage.
i used to hate hit & run, until I learned how to anticipate it. I have observed that the ones who hate such a rule, are those who have not learned how to anticipate it.
____________
- wiggy ... who has a crush on Rob's models. Well ... the ones his age (18-26)
|
|
Motorschaaf
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
|
posted November 23, 2001 01:38 AM |
|
|
well...
Quote:
. I have observed that the ones who hate such a rule, are those who have no learned how to anticipate it.
that is what i would call BullS..... if u play with rules or without got nothing to do with skill at all.
Motorschaaf
|
|
wiggy_wam
Promising
Famous Hero
local pirate
|
|
posted November 23, 2001 01:44 AM |
|
|
well then perhaps you, Motorschaaf, are the counter-example of my observations.
____________
- wiggy ... who has a crush on Rob's models. Well ... the ones his age (18-26)
|
|
rychenroller
Promising
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted November 23, 2001 01:50 AM |
|
|
Wiggy, this is what its about.
To me, soemone attacking with an arch, imploding my level 7 stack then surrendering isnt fun. I dont play with any other rules. I know how to counter it, but sometimes you cant. I dont enjoy it, so i dont want to play with it. I'm not scared of it, its just annoying and spoils a good game.
So there
Play to enjoy the game, not to win.
|
|
wiggy_wam
Promising
Famous Hero
local pirate
|
|
posted November 23, 2001 02:20 AM |
|
|
yeah, you're right Rychen.
in that other posting, I was actually portraying the devil's advocate ... presenting the "no rules at all" view. It has some really good points and insights, and I actually AGREE with all it's statements.
- Something I left out: I know players who use rules as a means for fun, and players who use them as a means for advantage. The same applies for those proposing specific maps.
- also left out: I personally always play with a "no 1st day rush" rule, ONLY because such is taking advantage of a programming flaw.
(and I suppose this post makes me an official hypocrite simply because I acknowledge my own fickleness and forgetfulness)
Hit & run CAN be extreme like the example you gave Rychen, and such a situation I don't find fun either.
what to do against a single archangel hero?
- send forth a knight instead of a queen: a 7 stack scout with a good lightning bolt spell. There are other ways also.
____________
- wiggy ... who has a crush on Rob's models. Well ... the ones his age (18-26)
|
| |
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
