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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 21, 2015 12:37 AM |
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if there were restrictions to a copy/paste feature, shouldn't that have been documented somewhere? at least with the original game? because i've never seen anything written about that(either on hardcopy or internet); aside from modding with xxl maps.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 21, 2015 09:17 AM |
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Maps have restrictions. You can't use copy/paste to create maps which have 50 towns, or more creature banks etc. You will corrupt the map when doing so.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 21, 2015 01:21 PM |
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if i make a map that works in the largest standard size, then it should work in xxl format if i copy and paste it to an xxl map; logically speaking. because nothing was over the limit before with the map i copied. the map that i copy/pasted had very few mines, and the xxl map only started giving me trouble when i added an island that had a bunch of them. i'm positive that i had more mines to add before any limit, because another standard map i have has mines all over the place, and it's in the largest standard size. i was nowhere close to that with the other map(it's a map where resources and everything else are scarce; not to mention, there was hardly anything visitable added to it, because i hadn't finished it yet); even after the addition of the island from a seperate map. i'm aware of the cap limit that has to be surpassed via erm, but i wasn't even close to that. so that couldn't have been what caused the problem.
like i said, i will try with a single fresh install on a seperate computer, and see if the issue persists.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 21, 2015 01:30 PM |
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Well, I assumed you try to push the limits because of this:
fred79 said:
still have potmdehex's tools to try as well, since the xxl map size still doesn't give me the adequate size and quantity of objects i need to copy/paste multiple maps(and all their objects, without limitation) into one.
In all, I have a hard time to understand what you are doing, from what you report, but maybe thats me...
And no, you can't go below the limit the cap using erm. It will still corrupt the map.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 21, 2015 01:40 PM |
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what you quoted was only what i want to be able to do with an xxl map. i want it to function like a standard map, only larger. so, with a limit to objects that is more proportionate to it's size.
as of yet, all i've done was copy and paste one map(above and below ground, to above and below ground) to an xxl map. why it doesn't want to take is beyond me; at this very early point, everything should work fine. but it doesn't, which is why i have to tinker with it until it does. and if it STILL doesn't, then i will either say snow it and give up on my plan to make a single map as a sort of campaign, or start learning the tools that potmdehex made; or just put this plan on the back burner, and pick up where i left off with either my object patch work(where i still need to finish the list of things that need scripted and other work associated with it); or pick up where i left off with the Forge/stronghold project; or make some tutorials for map design, etc.
right now, i want to be able to release a map. though it won't be immediately, of course. even if everything worked how it should, it would take a couple months(at least) to have the map i have in mind, ready to release.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 21, 2015 07:39 PM |
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Let me tell you something: when I began TEW4 (first xxl map) I wanted it to continue tew2-3 story so I started the design then I let a 50x50 area for copy/paste from previous maps, so there will be a deja vu feeling.
All my testings before that copy paste went fine, and once I copy/pasted then continue design, bugs started, crashes without reason, erm errors and other dirty map flatulences. I finally managed to make it by randomly removing things (the last town for example never could make it without instant crash) but I advertised the player to never place any additional object, because then the map will crash on start.
As you can read, I even abandoned the project for a long time
So my advice would be: avoid as much as you can this copy/paste thing, because either xxl format is bad, or the copy/paste feature is not yet perfect. And if you have no choice but to use it, then use several backups of your map (every design session saved), then test it after EACH design session (start map, move a bit around, open map view, hover mouse on all areas just to check).
I don't need to tell you how your testosterone will react if your 3 months worked map suddenly refuses to open or save.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 21, 2015 08:04 PM |
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thanks for the solid heads up, i appreciate it. after reading a bit from your link, it's apparent that you learned things the hard way, without anyone telling you of the limit. 
i'll hold off on the xxl campaign map idea for now, at least until i learn potmdehex's tools. again, i appreciate your insight. wish there was an easier way to make gargantuan maps however we want them, but i guess it requires extensive workarounds.
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avatar
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted December 21, 2015 10:02 PM |
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Hmm... create random gargantual maps is easy, but only in HotA editor. You must learn somehow how to convert HotA maps to SoD/WoG.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 21, 2015 10:05 PM |
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Of course, is easy to create random xxl maps in Era too. The problem is when you want to create custom ones and start to decorate. A custom map has x 100 more objects than a random and the limit was probably coded with XL in mind, not XXL.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 22, 2015 05:17 PM |
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sorry to bring this back up, but i just ran across this:
elaf said:
there will be a possibility to expand an existing xl map to G size without make it from start?
Sav said:
There is.
You need to download Gray Face map editor patch adapted to HotA editor: https://yadi.sk/d/JbbyEUFLdv4hq
Put it in HotA folder and run h3hota_maped.exe with command line key "/p:gf_me_patch.dll". Some of functionality of Gray Face patch will be available (including copying parts of map).
To copy map part enter Obstackle Brush section, click "copy" icon in the top-right corner (near Minimap) and select what map area to copy.
Then start creating new map, click "paste" icon in the top-right corner and select place to paste copied part of map.
and it made me wonder. is it the mapedpatch.dll that is incompatible with the xxl mod? is that where the inconsistency lies? is it possible that they can either be mixed together software-wise, and be one map editor patch; or the xxl mod can be gotten rid of entirely by tweaking the mapedpatch, or vice-versa?
i'm sure this can work, if someone who knows coding does it. maybe this is what potmdehex did with his tools?
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 22, 2015 06:14 PM |
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It will create exactly the same problem. Look, most people want xxl maps which are random or poorly designed (see here)
Those random and poor xxl maps will not create any problems. The fun starts when you carefully add your decorations and get over 32500, which is not so much for a talented designer. Take for example a simple lake from tew 1-2 by Kispalko. Nothing but that lake has about 50 different objects in it, to vary colors and relief. Now imagine this transposed to xxl.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 22, 2015 07:17 PM |
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so the bottom line is, the xxl mod won't work for what i want to do, because i decorate the snow out of my maps? then that leaves the only other option(and possibly the best choice between the two, regardless): potmdehex's tools.
again, sorry for bringing that back up. i keep hoping so much that what i want could be easier done, that i'm grasping at straws.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 22, 2015 07:24 PM |
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I am not sure why potmdehex seems to you Jesus. I never saw him claim that he can break objects limits, I think he has a very good knowledge of editor internals and can come with some compatibility issues solved, but for limits, I saw nothing. You should ask him precisely what you need, because your previous posts were very vague so the guy couldn't know whats about.
Now for your xxl, would be interesting to know if your patch requires heavy decoration. It looks to me that it doesn't. But for the record, you could start a map, do 20% of it as you want, then count objects using erm. Then you multiply by 5 and see if it goes off limits.
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Era II mods and utilities
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 22, 2015 07:36 PM |
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Salamandre said:
I am not sure why potmdehex seems to you Jesus. I never saw him claim that he can break objects limits, I think he has a very good knowledge of editor internals and can come with some compatibility issues solved, but for limits, I saw nothing. You should ask him precisely what you need, because your previous posts were very vague so the guy couldn't know whats about.
Now for your xxl, would be interesting to know if your patch requires heavy decoration. It looks to me that it doesn't. But for the record, you could start a map, do 20% of it as you want, then count objects using erm. Then you multiply by 5 and see if it goes off limits.
his work is my last hope for giant maps, decorated how i want them with minimal restriction. and i get the idea that his tools and knowhow can make that happen. anyone who plays with game coding, are wizards in the gaming world. i don't put much past them; i think, given time, they can unlock anything anyone wants. if they were so inclined to dedicate the time and effort on it, anyway. they are certainly outside my realm of expertise( ), though.
i don't think my work requires heavy decoration, but it definitely requires enough to help break apart the realization that you're looking at a heroes3 map. i don't decorate as much as i used to though; i've found that less can say more. but i definitely want to push the limits of what is possible, in order to continually and further expand the game.
in short, i want a beautiful game that i can do anything with. if need be, i'll put in the time and effort to get that. but since there are others better at this than i ever will be, it makes sense to seek out their help and knowledge.
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robizeratul
Known Hero
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posted January 06, 2016 01:11 AM |
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fred79 said:
in short, i want a beautiful game that i can do anything with. if need be, i'll put in the time and effort to get that. but since there are others better at this than i ever will be, it makes sense to seek out their help and knowledge.
Did you succeed Fred?
I am curios what is the object limit to 144/144 and 250/250 ? ( I assume the latter is bigger?)
ALso, is there a limit to specific objects? I know there is for castles and heroes, anything else? ( and what numbers)
Also, is anything more than 250/250 possible ?(with the object limit increased of course) ?
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RoseKavalier
Admirable
Supreme Hero
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posted January 06, 2016 01:32 AM |
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted January 06, 2016 09:58 AM |
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 06, 2016 10:59 AM |
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robizeratul said:
Did you succeed Fred?
in copying/pasting to an xxl map or larger(or ironing out the limitations)? no. the task has been put on hold, for now. along with many other things.
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RoseKavalier
Admirable
Supreme Hero
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posted January 06, 2016 02:52 PM |
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Well that's odd. I can start the game fine but saves don't load - should have checked that first.
So it seems that loading feature has a cap on the number of excess items you can actually place. I suppose there's some work to be done here to figure the game caps when loading.
New save with fewer items which loads for me across as many platforms as I can test (I haven't figured the cap for Dwellings yet).
There are 383 Mage Towers!
As many objects as you want
EDITing as I test them...
Maximum number of ___ for safe load
Garrison: 255
Mines/Lighthouses: 255
Towns: 48 (already known)
Black Market: 639 (? crashes when I save at 640 - maybe some cap on Artifacts)
Seemingly infinite
Dwellings: no crash after 2,400+
Events: No crash after 1,700+
Stats boost (tried Garden, Arena & School of Magic) : no crash after 1,400+
Boats: no crash after 1,600+
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted January 06, 2016 04:05 PM |
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The main problem when making a XXL map isn't so much being restricted with dwellings, as we can add them with erm later, but the overall objects number, including decorative ones. For tew4, for example, we had to find a hack to increase the limit, as after 40000 objects, the map was screwed. So far, I wasn't able to add more than 60000, which is acceptable for xxl. Given that, for that purpose, I left huge parts of the map empty, designed a labyrinth and such things.
60000 isn't so much, empire of the world 2 (kispalko) has 35000 objects and is xl.
Then you say it doesn't crash, but have you tested every object to see if it works? For example, garden of revelation, if you add 100, I guess 40 of them will clone the others, so will show visited if you visited the clone.
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