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| Thread: Saving one from their own self |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT» |
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Herry
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
100% Devil
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posted April 17, 2014 09:17 PM |
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Saving one from their own self
So i'll get clear from begginning to end, this thread is about saving people from their own selves, aka "commiting suicide", and most people that try to commit suicide are in a psychologically and mentally terrible state, but you know they are friends and are dear to you, let's count our ways straight:
1, really, really intense psychological warfare, insults, provocation, racism, whatever you can imagine, and i'm serious, and here's why, the goal of this way is for the victim to get angry at you, which would serve as a distraction from their sadness, temporary or permenant, still a possibility.
2, convincing, common knowledge if you ask me, and this way is saying things like "You can't just leave! we can't live without you!" and bla bla bla.
3, "Commiting suicide, eh? that's just selfishness, people would miss you, while you are sitting there in the afterlife..." yeah, as simple as that.
i want to say, sadness is absent when there is a distraction, and the more intense the event was, the more good the distraction is required, and since emotions are uncontrollable, but COULD be used, you use anger here. i might even advice you to use some fake pervision if the victim is female, cause as everybody knows, that's a rage magnet, trust me when i say it.
i would also suggest trying to make the victim happy, if you can do that that is. the most terrible thing is, the victim mostly thinks in a negative way, which is a pain in the @$$ if you ask me, as it makes things way harder.
when trying to make victim happy, i suggest a surprise, a VERY funny joke, a dirty joke(idk why, dirty jokes tend to be funny, i just don't get why.)
and another fact about these victims, why do they want to commit suicide? they want to run away from EVERYTHING that makes them sad, and as i said they think negatively so instead of looking forward, to the future, they turn around and think of the past the whole time.
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The_Polyglot
Promising
Supreme Hero
Nuttier than squirrel poo
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posted April 17, 2014 09:41 PM |
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Herry said:
... but you know they are friends and are dear to you,...
Says who?
1, really, really intense psychological warfare, insults, provocation, racism, whatever you can imagine, and i'm serious, and here's why, the goal of this way is for the victim to get angry at you, which would serve as a distraction from their sadness, temporary or permenant, still a possibility.
Bull
2, convincing, common knowledge if you ask me, and this way is saying things like "You can't just leave! we can't live without you!" and bla bla bla.
3, "Commiting suicide, eh? that's just selfishness, people would miss you, while you are sitting there in the afterlife..." yeah, as simple as that.
Too cliché. Trust me, when one's at a point where he is preparing to do the deed, spouting thoughts that have already crossed his mind too many times to count WON'T help.
i want to say, sadness is absent when there is a distraction, and the more intense the event was, the more good the distraction is required, and since emotions are uncontrollable, but COULD be used, you use anger here. i might even advice you to use some fake pervision if the victim is female, cause as everybody knows, that's a rage magnet, trust me when i say it.
Yes, cloud his judgment more, make him angry... If you get a reaction at all, it would most likely be negative
i would also suggest trying to make the victim happy, if you can do that that is. the most terrible thing is, the victim mostly thinks in a negative way, which is a pain in the @$$ if you ask me, as it makes things way harder.
Miiiiiiight work, if you recognise the signs early and help him continuously PRIOR to the attempt
when trying to make victim happy, i suggest a surprise, a VERY funny joke, a dirty joke(idk why, dirty jokes tend to be funny, i just don't get why.)
Bull
and another fact about these victims, why do they want to commit suicide? they want to run away from EVERYTHING that makes them sad, and as i said they think negatively so instead of looking forward, to the future, they turn around and think of the past the whole time.
If you think every prospective suicide feels and acts the same way... I'm not gonna bother finishing this sentence, that's how silly that notion is.
Leaving this link here, just to show actual examples of suicides having been averted.
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Sanity through drugs. Order yours today!
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted April 17, 2014 11:49 PM |
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It's really quite an ignorant thing to do, attempting to stop someone from committing suicide.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 18, 2014 12:29 AM |
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Why is that ignorant?
I almost attempted suicide when I was younger but my parents stopped me and I am VERY glad they did. Death is nothing to glorify. Life has so much potential and so much to give. For every door that leads to a dark room, there's a hundred more that lead to a happier end.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
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posted April 18, 2014 06:10 AM |
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Edited by meroe at 06:12, 18 Apr 2014.
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Herry while your naivety in this particular issue is sweet, you really need to do a hell of a lot more background work.
People who genuinely want to end it/kill themselves - not the 'cry for help' or 'attention-seeking hysteric's' that we sometimes see in teenagers etc. But those people who are so depressed, so down, so utterly lost - if they want to commit suicide they will. This isn't some knee jerk reaction to the cat dying either, or that Johnny dumped you for Melissa. This is the slow realization that you cannot bear to live any longer. You know that killing yourself will hurt your family, but surely you are so worthless you will be doing them a favor. People don't commit suicide for others, they do it because it ends the trauma they are going through, whether real or imagined. That is the release. That is the freedom.
No amount of berating their selfishness or trying to distract them with a joke is going to make the slightest difference. To them you just wish to prolong their agony. Its a horrible truth.
It is easy for someone who doesn't wish to commit suicide to say things like, "but you have so much to live for". Because that is your perspective. But someone who cannot bear the thought of living another minute, because to them life seems like one long sick joke at their expense. Or that the world would be better off without them - are not going to be easily swayed.
There may be many reasons why someone gets that low, many genuine reasons. But for whatever the reason, they are in a place that most cannot imagine. So the plain fact is, that most people are ill equipped to deal with a suicidal person.
People who truly wish to kill themselves, very rarely go around advertising the fact. It is done, quietly and often when no one close to them is expecting it.
____________
Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted April 18, 2014 06:55 AM |
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I guess a suicidal person experiences an unbearable amount of suffering and they don't see how they could have less suffering in the future. In that state death may seem like the only option to escape the unbearable suffering.
I guess a suicidal person often doesn't want to talk about their suffering to others because they know how the conversation usually goes: the other person has an agenda to convince them that life is worth living, to "save them".
Whoever has this kind of agenda already thinks that what the suicidal person thinks and feels is "wrong" and needs to be "fixed". This is not a good set-up for genuine conversation and mutual understanding. So I wonder if it is best to talk to them without this agenda and with an open mind. To talk to them like one sensible human being with another, not like talking to someone who is mad and needs fixing. After all, they've probably spent months or even years thinking things over and likely have valid reasons for their decision.
Maybe the best way is to try to genuinely understand their perspective. And then, if they are open to it, to give them a genuine opinion about it.
If I was suicidal I would probably be more interested in speaking to someone who genuinely wants to have a chat and understand me, instead of talking to someone who wants to save me and "be a hero". I don't think I would be keen to talk to people who assume that the decision is wrong before even hearing what the reasons are.
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You can wait for others to do it, but if they don't know how, you'll wait forever.
Be an example of what you want to see on HC and in the world.
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted April 18, 2014 10:52 AM |
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Quote:
I almost attempted suicide when I was younger but my parents stopped me and I am VERY glad they did. Death is nothing to glorify. Life has so much potential and so much to give. For every door that leads to a dark room, there's a hundred more that lead to a happier end.
It is ignorant because you unjustly label death as something bad, even our primitive materialist understanding of the concept would lean toward that suicide is a preferable option to suffering. If nothingness claims us sooner or later, then why wait 50 years for it, and have to endure untold suffering, for what? So no, if you feel like life is bearing down on you so heavily, that you go beyond contemplating suicide and actually do so, then I whole heartedly support the decision. It is immoral to deny someone who has hit a spiritual rock-bottom, the peace that death seemingly offers. Especially since the alternative is completely pointless and will eventually lead to the same end.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted April 18, 2014 12:03 PM |
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Quote:
even our primitive materialist understanding of the concept
Actually, since hunter-gatherer times, all primitive peoples believed in some kind of after-life. The materialistic understanding of the concept comes after the Age of Reason, it's not primitive, on the contrary, it's realistic.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 18, 2014 12:16 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 12:18, 18 Apr 2014.
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@Tsar
That kind of depends, the person in question may not be in a sound mind state and people have been known to make stupid decisions when they are emotionally compromised or unable to think clearly for whatever reason. I would try to reason with such a person to see why he thinks this way and what alternatives there may be. Sometimes people just snap and need a friendly nudge to keep going. Sometimes they are perfectly conscious about their decision. Not much to be done there, it's their life.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted April 18, 2014 04:48 PM |
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If you want to talk to someone about it, you don't really want to kill yourself.
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 18, 2014 05:09 PM |
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I don't think you want to talk to people at all, but it's good if people talk to you. Not with the typical "Life is actually great" BS. That's so far off from how a person thinking about suicide thinks. I think you should try to find out what makes is making the person feel unhappy, without getting into the specifics since these are super personal and private issues.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted April 18, 2014 05:23 PM |
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JoonasTo is right on this one. Suicide and suicide attempt are considered different behaviors. One is about massive depression (which arguably can be still justified though), the other is about taking a risk to get rid of guilt or simply calling out to people. If somebody wants to kill themselves beyond any help, that's really easy in terms of physical ability right, just jump from 20th floor of any building or a cliff, no expense, no need to find a gun or something, no chance of survival or being hospitalized. So, if you're leaving an open door behind, it's for someone to walk through it.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 18, 2014 05:29 PM |
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or you could just sit in a hot bath, and open up some arteries. just grab a knife from the kitchen and walah. you can even bring a pillow, and get comfortable.
of course, suicide is the easy way out of suffering.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted April 18, 2014 06:03 PM |
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Some people (like me) find the whole open vein thing a little less comfortable and irritating. Besides, it's a slow way to go. But I guess different sort of people might find different sort of methods for many reasons. For some people, jumping off is too public.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 18, 2014 06:22 PM |
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Edited by fred79 at 18:22, 18 Apr 2014.
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it ain't slow if you do the femoral artery, or the jugular/carotid.
what's wrong with slow, anyway? a little slice slice here of the ankles, a little slice slice there of the wrists... hot bath water, a nice comfy pillow... you could put on some music, drink some wine, and drift off to sleep before the water gets cold.
it really is pretty easy. if someone is too squeamish to open some blood vessels, then they aren't committed to committing suicide. 
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Herry
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
100% Devil
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posted April 18, 2014 06:29 PM |
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please, i'd prefer to jump off, at least do something good: amuse people. i'd rather die like a boss than sleep after getting an overdose of pills or something, but the most painless way is shooting yourself in your brain, since your brain is gonna get destroyed, you won't feel pain, it's instant and free 
but really, i think distracting is a good way to go, but getting reasons? hold on here: commiting suicide is not a choice taken when people are at FULL mental health, which means their reasons won't be understood by YOU, who is at FULL HEALTH. and let's pretend you did understood, will you convince them or let them die, of course it would be a sin to let mentally sick people die in front of you, convincing, like: life is all great and full of surprises, while a more direct way, has a less chance of reaching the target, and if it did reach the target, it has high chance of having no effect on him, like "i already tried to believe that" while when you DISTRACT people you push their thoughts to the back of their head, since most people first think about the matter at hand, which in this ideal case is you.
on a side note: wow, i'm a boss, i managed to bring valeriy to my thread without even calling him, somekinda magnet this thread is...
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted April 18, 2014 06:30 PM |
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Actually, cutting open your veins and dying to it, takes quite a lot more knowledge and skill than your average person has.
So rememeber kids, across the road if you wanna live to tell the tale but down the highway leads to success and paradise.
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted April 18, 2014 06:34 PM |
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Edited by artu at 18:35, 18 Apr 2014.
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@fred
Slow means chance of someone interferring or you chickening out because of survival insticts, people in depression have them, too. Besides, I imagine it would hurt, how can you be comfy while you're deeply cut.
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted April 18, 2014 06:38 PM |
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That depends, pain isn't necessarily a bad thing.
But yes, unless you're very, very drunk or intoxicated in other ways it does hurt.
Actually, most people who try to slice their wrist fail at it and survive. I think the numbers were around 30% success and 70% failure.
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted April 18, 2014 07:24 PM |
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When talking about the decision to end your life we can't forget the discussion on our right to euthanasia.
There may be reasons for a person to conscenciously choose to end is life.
I once saw a great spanish movie with Xavier Barden called "Mar Adentro" that was based on the true story of a tetraplegic guy who wanted to end his misery. It makes you look at things from another perspective.
On the other hand, I'm not aware of how much of it is a myth but, while almost all cultures in the world have religious tabus against suicide, japanase samurai seemed to be able to commit it just to save face.
Think of it, you did something you regret (like failling the university exams) so u put a sword trough your guts? F U!!!
Yet, some years ago the number of university students who actually commited suicide after failling exams was in fact much greater in Japan then anywhere else.
So, this so called "value of life" is at least partially a cultural thing.
How about suicidal acts of bravery like the one Salamandre so well taked from the 300 movie?
Or what Easter represents to catolic people?
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