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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Sylvan...
Thread: Sylvan... This thread is 16 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 · «PREV / NEXT»
JeremiahEmo
JeremiahEmo


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
posted August 24, 2014 05:25 AM

@Bloodsucker
I'd probably feel at home in Athens. LoL. I don't fear women or the Amazons though, it's more on the brotherly love or bros before hoes thing. If Athenians were so afraid of she-warriors, why are they worshiping a goddess that exactly embodies what Amazonians are?

Anyway, I think I got your point. Seduction is a male characteristic because women who acts in a certain way are perceived demoness by conservative men? Am I right?
Let me ask you this. If a woman's intention is to get on the man's good side because she wants something from him, using lust, wouldn't that be a woman thing also? No, it's not a myth. I've seen so many women doing this in every day life whether to one of my bros or myself.

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JeremiahEmo
JeremiahEmo


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
posted August 24, 2014 07:55 AM

alex_yakub said:
And about Civ5, the only two unneeded female leaders were Wu Zetian of China and Maria the Mad of Portugal.


Uhmm Dido and Theodora?? Dido was a myth. She was never proven to have existed. Theodora was in Civ3, yes but she never did anything remarkable to warrant her inclusion.

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted August 24, 2014 09:24 AM

Moderator's note: The discussion here has derailed very much from discussing the Sylvan faction. Jeremiah, you have made your point about female creatures (once again), and that's fine, but let's get things back to the topic. It's fine that you discuss the pros and cons of a female druid, archer or sworddancer, but don't take up the topic of whether there should be any female creatures or not again, I think we have now heard your AND every single other member's opinion on that topic.

And to the rest of you in this topic, you know that Jeremiah has strong opinions on this subject, so I don't care for you go bringing it up all the time and taunting him by posting pictures all over the place just to provoke him, and certainly don't come complain afterwards that it triggers a reaction from him when you do.

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Alex_Yakub
Alex_Yakub


Famous Hero
posted August 24, 2014 09:56 AM

Okay, back on topic. As I already said, I really hope they get rid of blade dancers this time, it was, like, the most unimaginative unit in the Sylvan faction in HoMM5.
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Dwarfurious
Dwarfurious


Adventuring Hero
posted August 24, 2014 09:59 AM

Alex_Yakub said:
Okay, back on topic. As I already said, I really hope they get rid of blade dancers this time, it was, like, the most unimaginative unit in the Sylvan faction in HoMM5.


How exactly is it less imaginative than an Elf Archer or Elf Druid? Or do you think the Elf and Druid are SO cliche they're irreplaceable ? Too core? I'm just curious since i see them 'all' as ...bleh.

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Alex_Yakub
Alex_Yakub


Famous Hero
posted August 24, 2014 10:10 AM
Edited by Alex_Yakub at 10:11, 24 Aug 2014.

Dwarfurious said:
Alex_Yakub said:
Okay, back on topic. As I already said, I really hope they get rid of blade dancers this time, it was, like, the most unimaginative unit in the Sylvan faction in HoMM5.


How exactly is it less imaginative than an Elf Archer or Elf Druid? Or do you think the Elf and Druid are SO cliche they're irreplaceable ? Too core? I'm just curious since i see them 'all' as ...bleh.

Well, you see, elf archers and druids are cliche, yes. But, they are classic. It's hard to imagine an elven faction without elven archers, and druids were always part of Sylvan, even when they were a hero class. And while blade dancers are new, they are not interesting. They are just not something you expect from a nature-based faction. In a faction with endless posibilities, like animals or beasts, a simple elf with two blades looks... how to say... bland.
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Dwarfurious
Dwarfurious


Adventuring Hero
posted August 24, 2014 10:41 AM

I'm going to agree, lose the blade dancers, get Dryad or Deer-thingy like clash of clans.
I say the same for my Dwarves, classics. Sometimes they just make too much sense to remove, like Elf Archer, they're damn good at bows and would prefer not to be in axe range so removing them just to make it less cliche just ends up looking silly.

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Lesij
Lesij


Famous Hero
posted August 24, 2014 10:49 AM
Edited by Lesij at 10:52, 24 Aug 2014.

My dream is for any faction to become SLAVIC. Elves are for now the best for it (I think H III swamp-themed citadel could be even better, but we have no faction like that introduced to come).
My line-up:

CORE
Hunter - of course best core shooter in the game;I don't have specific needs for its abilities

Blade Dancer - agile and swift but somehow fragile assault unit; I don't have specific needs for its abilities

Vila (lore: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernatural_beings_in_Slavic_folklore) - delicate caster with following abilities:
1) fatal laugh (Vila uses her air magic to tickle the unit stopping it from act for one turn, dealing damage and lowering its combat potential for additional two turns; cd: 3 turns)
2) summon cloud (Vila summons a small cloud 3x3 tiles that impedes shooters potential and disallows units to fly. The cloud lasts for 3 turns; 1 use)
3) spiritual - until she moves, Vila receives lower damage

ELITE
Werebear - hard-hitting tank, but only in his battleform;
abilities:
1) shape-shift - werebear gains his animal form increasing his defense, hp and damage, and gaining a weak regeneration; lasts 3 turns; cd: 4 turns
2) maul - werebear, in his battleform, can launch a special attack that will deal normal damage and stun small creatures for two turns, big creatures for one turn; cd: 4 turns
3) turn - werebear has a chance to turn low-count unit into another stack of werebear; those remain shapeshifted till the end of the battle and become neutral units which can be attacked by anybody and which attack by their own. After the battle they ask to join the winners army. Winner can either accept or fight them.

Druid - I would see him similar to HV

Werewolf (bigger weekly growth than the previous two) - a fierce warrior, but only in his battleform;
abilities:
1) shape-shift - werewolf gains his animal form increasing his damage, giving him armor reduction, ability to attack twice and a weak lifesteal
2) infected wounds - werewolf, in his battleform, infects targets upon attack; infection deals low nature damage
3) turn - werewolf has a chance to turn low-count unit into another stack of werebear; those remain shapeshifted till the end of the battle and become neutral units which can be attacked by anybody and which attack by their own. After the battle they ask to join the winners army. Winner can either accept or fight them.

CHAMPION
Treant - similar to H V, but
1) entagling roots (ofc)
2) hurl boulder - a treant rips away a boulder from the ground and can hurl it at both units and walls. It deals lower damage than his normal attack; cd: 3 turns
3) siege attack - a treant deals 3 damage to walls in melee

Leshi (lore: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leshy)
1) spiritual - until it moves, Leshi receives lower damage
2) shape-shift - Leshi can shape-shift into powerful ancient werebear with attack twice and cyclops like maul
3) mass regeneration; cd: 6 turns

Also, for me Sylvan should be less of a defensive faction, more of an offensive one. Their defense are forest and swamps, until they stay in their dominion. That natural habitat creates opportunity to concentrate on being very aggresive, not caring very much about the defense, since the habitat gives it...


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Dwarfurious
Dwarfurious


Adventuring Hero
posted August 24, 2014 11:03 AM

Funny thing about them being more "offensive" than "defensive" While in the tactical map, yes they pretty squishy and rely on high initiative and damage.. Defending their forests is their whole shtick and when you think about it, their tactics and army fall apart outside of a forest and if you're a faction like Inferno you just set the forest on fire and call it good

Thats why i think Dwarves are cool, they're untouchable. Not many armies can scale frozen mountains, breath in that cold thin air. Dwarves probably just shrug and cause an avalanche on any would-be invader. They're kind of like Russia, except its always winter, and bear cavalry isnt a meme.

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JeremiahEmo
JeremiahEmo


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
posted August 24, 2014 11:24 AM
Edited by JeremiahEmo at 11:29, 24 Aug 2014.

Thank you for understanding Alc.. anyway..

Dwarfurious said:
Funny thing about them being more "offensive" than "defensive" While in the tactical map, yes they pretty squishy and rely on high initiative and damage.. Defending their forests is their whole shtick and when you think about it, their tactics and army fall apart outside of a forest and if you're a faction like Inferno you just set the forest on fire and call it good

Thats why i think Dwarves are cool, they're untouchable. Not many armies can scale frozen mountains, breath in that cold thin air. Dwarves probably just shrug and cause an avalanche on any would-be invader. They're kind of like Russia, except its always winter, and bear cavalry isnt a meme.


Yes, I agree. I love Fortress. I want both Fortress and Sylvan in the base game. Hey, do you think, if we will petition for Fortress and Sylvan to take the last two spots instead of Inferno/Dungeon/Sanctuary, we'll succeed?


Anyway, I disagree with Alex. Blade Dancers are the embodiment of swift but fragile. Gameplay-wise, Blade Dancers would help make Sylvan unique. They're the only faction in Ashan that relies heavily on speed, to a point of sacrificing strength and sturdiness.


I say this be the lineup for Sylvan..

Core:
1. Faun -> Satyr
2. Blade Dancer -> Wind Dancer
3. Tiger -> White Tiger

Elite:
4. Unicorn -> Silver Unicorn
5. Trapper -> Hunter
6. Werewolf -> Lycanthropy

Champion:
7. Treant -> Ancient Treant
8. Beastmaster -> Beastking

//Druids are now heroes along with rangers and two others

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Avirosb
Avirosb


Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
posted August 24, 2014 11:42 AM
Edited by Avirosb at 11:43, 24 Aug 2014.

About the town screen; Spring and Summer have already been done dozens of times.
I think a Fall Sylvan would be nice for a change, with golden and red leaves in the trees and on the ground.

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Avonu
Avonu


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
posted August 24, 2014 12:07 PM
Edited by Avonu at 12:08, 24 Aug 2014.

Avirosb said:
About the town screen; Spring and Summer have already been done dozens of times.
I think a Fall Sylvan would be nice for a change, with golden and red leaves in the trees and on the ground.


Like Autumn Elven Town never was done before:






*sigh*
I miss Disciples 2 art style

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"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted August 24, 2014 12:11 PM
Edited by Galaad at 12:18, 24 Aug 2014.

Avonu said:

Like Autumn Elven Town never was done before:


In Heroes franchise, never officially AFAIK.

+ except the H3's modded one, noone of the screenshots you posted above fits in a Heroes game, imo.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted August 24, 2014 12:18 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 12:22, 24 Aug 2014.

@JeremiahEmo: "more on the brotherly love"=being gay has me and Meroe said you are and you denied. See the relation of Patroclo and Aquiles in the Iliad or Plato, Phaedrus.

The idea of women needing to use their sexual atractives to get things done his also a product of the patriarchy. Can u imagine a one boob archer doing that in the amazon community? Well, in fact I can but it would be "sisterly love".


P.S. @Alcibiades, I read your post after replying, do you want me to delete this?

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AnkVaati
AnkVaati


Famous Hero
Nighonese National Front
posted August 24, 2014 12:25 PM
Edited by AnkVaati at 12:29, 24 Aug 2014.

JeremiahEmo said:
I for one don't have a problem with elves and dwarves used over and over again. These creatures are an established physics in fantasies. They are like gravity to fantasy, like an established medium. Fantasy games won't be the same without them for me.
With that line of reasoning, all fine restaurants should start serving hamburgers with french fries because “these dishes are an established physics in food serving”. If you want to play Warcraft or Warhammer, go play those games. Heroes III became the gaming world's equivalent of chess because it was original and appealing to intellectual people of all ages, not because of the cliché loving crowd.

Anyway - I'm overwhelmingly against the core-elite-champion system. It's extremely dull to only have three levels, it eliminates much of the tactical dimension of the traditional Heroes games. I'd prefer a return to Heroes IV's system, were one is made to chose between two creatures after the first level. This adds another strategical dimension to the building process, some creatures may be better against certain opponents, and it certainly adds to the replayability. I would prefer to have 6 levels instead of four, however, as four levels cannot realistically stimulate the difference in streght between a peasant and a dragon. For Rampart (I find the name “Sylvan” distastefully bland), I prefer something in the line of this:

Sprite – Centaur

Rampart starts out strong, with one flyer and one shooter. Like in previous games, Sprites should be quite fragile, while the heavier spear-shooting Centaurs form the backbone of the Sorceresses armies during the early- to mid-game.

Runeweaver – White tiger

The Runeweaver is a dwarfen sorceress that can weave “runes” that works like buffs for the Sorceresses army. The White tiger is a fast and offensive-oriented melee creature, able to reach the enemy lines in just a couple of turns.

Sharpshooter – Doppelganger

Like their equvalents in previous games, the elven Sharpshooter shoots two shots every turn. However, unlike Centaurs, they are quite fragile when it comes to hand-to-hand combat, and low on HP. The Doppelganger is a defence-oriented beast that may copy the abilities of other units on the battlefield.

Banshee – Sentry

The Banshee is a fey ghost that may “puppet” enemy creatures for a couple of turns per battle, and also process the ability to make the enemies flee in terror. While fragile in general, their incorporeal ability makes them last longer. The Sentry is a dwarf with a big axe.

Unicorn – Dendroid

The unicorn is an offensive-oriented white pony with a big horn projecting from its forehead, that processes the ability to increase the luck of friendly creatures and decrease it for the enemy. The Dendroid is a slow and sturdy tank with massive HP. Like in Heroes III, creatures attacked by Dendroids are held in place by their roots until Dendroids move or are killed

Green Dragon – Gargantuan

The Green Dragon is your average Green Dragon, with fire breath and resistance to spells level 1-4. The Gargantuan is a massive offensive-oriented tank that can deal ranged damage by stomping in the ground, but only for a few times per battle.

My intention is to make Rampart heavy on buffs, but more limited in terms of raw power. Yes - I let Druids out, even if they are one of the original creatures of the Sorceress faction from Heroes I. That aside, I felt that those are too prone to repeat stereotypes, and I didn't want to have more elven units than absolutely necessary.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted August 24, 2014 12:44 PM

I suppose most people would find a one-boobed unit weird In our fantasy amazons have both ^^
____________
Have you ever tried blind fold archery? You don't know what you're missing!

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Avirosb
Avirosb


Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
posted August 24, 2014 01:20 PM

Quote:
Like Autumn Elven Town never was done before
None good enough. Or yellow enough.

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Danny
Danny


Famous Hero
posted August 24, 2014 04:03 PM

Those Disciples townscreens are terrible, so glad Heroes never went that way. The "nature" town usually has the best townscreen in Heroes games so I'm sure the H7 one won't disappoint either.

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JeremiahEmo
JeremiahEmo


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
posted August 24, 2014 04:37 PM

@Danny
I agree. Disciples was a bad game. The Elves in that game was horribly sucky too. If there's any inspiration for Sylvan, stay away from Disciples' Elven alliance. I like the idea of an autumn Sylvan though. What's the capital? Syris Lothran? I'd like them to revolve the campaign around Syris Lothran like how H5 Fortress revolved around Tor Myrdal.


@Bloodsucker
That's because I'm not. Good topic. I suggest you open a thread in OSM or Volcanic wasteland about it or this patriarchy you talk about.

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leiah2
leiah2


Known Hero
posted August 24, 2014 05:48 PM
Edited by leiah2 at 19:34, 24 Aug 2014.

I Think these two lineups for the factions would be awesome, both Sylvan and Fortress. Though this is just my personal lineup, something I Think would be cool and kind of lore friendly.

SYLVAN
Core:
Centaur OR Forest Defender: Yes, I know Centaurs are in Stronghold, just loved them in HoMM 3, Defender would be sword and shield elf
Basilisk-Vicious Basilisk: Very frail unit but high damage
Wolf-Nature Wolf: Fast unit, avergae dmg and Health. I know Haven have direwolves, but it's not really the same.
Elite:
Horse/Wolf/Cheetah Archer: Agile mounted shooter, mentioned in Discover Sylvan
Hyppogryph OR Pegasus: High Health flyer
Faerie Drake-Fey Drake: Ranged caster/Shooter/Flyer http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100401223710/dragons/images/8/84/Faerie_Dragon.png How it would look
Champion:
Green Dragon-Azure Dragon: Flyer champion unit
Unicorn OR Kelpie like creature: Strong and fast champion unit, the frailest of all champion units but high damage and speed.

I Know this is not a thread for fortress lineups but I just have to put it here :/


FORTRESS:
Core:
Shieldbearer/Longbeard: Tanky first unit, good in numbers
Battle Boar/Gnasher: Fast melee
Scout-Poacher: A shooter
Elite:
Rune Priest: Ranged catser, like in Heroes V
Valkyrie-Heavenly Valkyrie: Flying melee
Salamander-Lavamander: Smaller versions of the lava dragons that shoot molten lava from distance.
Champion:
Frost Giant-Ice Giant: Much Health, very tanky
Thunderbird OR Lava Dragon: I'm unsure about Thunderbird, but I thought abut thunder and Thor and all...

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