Heroes of Might and Magic Community
visiting hero! Register | Today's Posts | Games | Search! | FAQ/Rules | AvatarList | MemberList | Profile


Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
[X] Remove Ads
LOGIN:     Username:     Password:         [ Register ]
HOMM1: info forum | HOMM2: info forum | HOMM3: info mods forum | HOMM4: info CTG forum | HOMM5: info mods forum | MMH6: wiki forum | MMH7: wiki forum
Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Limbic's Town Screens
Thread: Limbic's Town Screens This thread is 50 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 10 20 30 40 ... 46 47 48 49 50 · «PREV / NEXT»
alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted June 30, 2015 08:48 PM

Dungeon was never my favorite either, but it clearly does have a foreground: Mushrooms, Eyes, Tavern, Battle Arena and Market Place clearly forms foreground (link). Middle layer has City Hall, Mage Guild, Castle, Summoning Portal. Background has Harpies, Medusas, Minotaurs and Dragons.
____________
What will happen now?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
Gryphs
Gryphs


Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
posted June 30, 2015 09:10 PM

Also while H3 townscreens looked better we must never forget they also made more sense. One example being the people of Ashans aversion to roads, and no the roller coaster going through sylvan's town does not constitute a road. Any efficient transportation system seems to be thrown out the window and it makes the towns look all the more ludicrous to me anyway.
____________
"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
icefield
icefield


Adventuring Hero
posted June 30, 2015 09:34 PM

alcibiades said:
Dungeon was never my favorite either, but it clearly does have a foreground: Mushrooms, Eyes, Tavern, Battle Arena and Market Place clearly forms foreground (link). Middle layer has City Hall, Mage Guild, Castle, Summoning Portal. Background has Harpies, Medusas, Minotaurs and Dragons.


Sort of.  But the depth of that picture is much less than Rampart, for instance.  There is no far-away background.  Also the orientation of the buildings towards the center is less prominent in the Dungeon screen, and brightness is evenly distributed.  It does look shallow.

Nevertheless, in the H7 Sylvan screen, the buildings are deliberately oriented to the outside.  There's also a bright spot at the far left that directs the observer out of the picture.  I do like the beauty and fairy-tale touch of the current screen, but I don't quite understand why they are modelling the picture geometry still after the H5 3-D screens.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted June 30, 2015 10:14 PM

kiryu133 said:
It does some other cool things though, like playing around more with colours: it's the most colour-diverse screen in h3 which it can be due to the primary colour being a very dark gray.


Dark gray?



This looks primarily brown to me .

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
kiryu133
kiryu133


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
posted June 30, 2015 10:25 PM
Edited by kiryu133 at 22:25, 30 Jun 2015.

both then . point is it's close enough to black that it allows for a high variety of different colours to be used as long as they're dark or deep. For example there is yellow, orange, green, beige, pink and a bit of red. There isn't much of them, but there is plenty of little spots of colour. Doesn't look great but is rather unique for the game

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
GenyaArikado
GenyaArikado


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted July 01, 2015 06:10 AM

i always have liked H3 dungeon, except those giant harpy lofts.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
emilsn91
emilsn91


Supreme Hero
posted July 01, 2015 11:14 AM

kiryu133 I read your analysis.. And I see where you are getting at.

I agree that the townscreens are big messes. But what if they are just going for creating something beautiful - because I think it is a beautiful townscreen - but not something that is realistic.

And do we even want realism in videogames?

IMO a bit more realism then this. But I really love this style, this artwork.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Macron1
Macron1


Supreme Hero
posted July 01, 2015 11:31 AM
Edited by Macron1 at 11:43, 01 Jul 2015.

Maurice said:
Keep in mind that the H3 townscreens had to fit in a much smaller resolution than the H7 towns ever have to be.


Resolution is no matter. If there are more buildings, they have to be made smaller, in any resolution. And remember, that HMM7 screens also must reserve space for interface elements etc.

I'm saying, that Haven, Sylvan, Academy have common style and are made to fit game interface of HMM7. It's a style of HMM7, someone like it or not. Personally i think that i could be done much worse.
Of cause, HMM3 TSs is canon, but these townscreens have some sense too.
PS 3d Townscreens are snow, i didn't played HMM5 also because of them, they serve no helping purpose and only matter for someone like playing with camera rotations.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Avirosb
Avirosb


Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
posted July 01, 2015 11:51 AM

emilsn91 said:
And do we even want realism in videogames?
At this point I'd settle for some consistency.
The amount of detail in many of the H7 screens seem unevenly distributed.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted July 01, 2015 02:19 PM

Macron1 said:
Resolution is no matter. If there are more buildings, they have to be made smaller, in any resolution.


Perhaps not in a relative sense, but most definately in an absolute sense. It's because monitors have increased in size and cover a different resolution range as a result. Back when I played H3 originally, I may have had a 19 inch monitor at a resolution of 800x600, don't remember exactly. Currently I have dual 24-inch monitors, which go up to 1920x1080.

When scaling the original size of the game on the newer monitor, I have a lot of excess space for potential extra buildings. In fact, if I maximize the game instead, I have to sit way back from the monitor to allow me to view the screen properly.

Quote:
And remember, that HMM7 screens also must reserve space for interface elements etc.


It's funny that H3 Townscreens didn't really need this, because the buildings themselves acted as interface elements. You might wonder if all the UI clutter that exists in the current game actually has a place there, or would be better put elsewhere. But that's just an observation, not criticism in any form.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
kiryu133
kiryu133


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
posted July 01, 2015 02:40 PM

GenyaArikado said:
i always have liked H3 dungeon, except those giant harpy lofts.


that's the power of colours: since the screen is very cold (cold grays and browns), making the buildings glow with soft, warm colours make them very inviting and pleasant without being distracting since the colours are also soft. this makes every building visible and distinct helping in navigating the place and also make the visit pleasant. It is the only town in h3 that does this since most other screens use shapes and lighting to guide the eyes.

emilsn91 said:


I agree that the town screens are big messes. But what if they are just going for creating something beautiful - because I think it is a beautiful town screen - but not something that is realistic.



the problem with the H7 screens isn't their visuals but that they don't leave much of an impression and are not very functional. Going into sylvan screen, i have no idea what any of it is at first glance while in h3, rampart uses all these tools i talked about to make every building memorable and clear. I know where everything is immediately. H3 uses its visuals to improve gameplay while H7 uses its visuals to hinder it.

Once again, the screens themselves aren't bad-looking (except academy, ugh) but they are designed in a way that hinders not only immersion but gameplay as well and that should never happen.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Asmodean
Asmodean


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
posted July 03, 2015 12:51 AM

Off the back of kiryu133's excellent gif, we can see that the town screens in HOMM3 start as a pretty blank canvas upon which the town is painted.

In contrast, the HOMM7 screens look like it will already be a picture  which we're refining with further details as we build structures which won't be particularly exciting because they'll grow out of a ready made structure (the tree) rather than occupy a previously blank space.

Both can be fine, but personally I likes filling up the blank space and then refining the new structures as I upgraded them. It added a sense of achievement that I think may be lacking with the new town screens.
____________

To err is human, to arr is pirate.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Steyn
Steyn


Supreme Hero
posted July 03, 2015 07:22 AM

kiryu133 said:

the problem with the H7 screens isn't their visuals but that they don't leave much of an impression and are not very functional. Going into sylvan screen, i have no idea what any of it is at first glance while in h3, rampart uses all these tools i talked about to make every building memorable and clear. I know where everything is immediately. H3 uses its visuals to improve gameplay while H7 uses its visuals to hinder it.

Don't you think this is also a huge part experience? If you wouldn't know beforehand what every building was, not all their functions would be clear. For example, you have 3 horse-like units. Which one lives at the stables? Also, without the giant pegasus statue on top, there is no way of knowing what unit you can recruit at that giant waterfall. And how does a forest make clear unicorns can be recruited there? And this is only rampart. Think of castle: how do the dwellings for pikemen, archers and swordsmen make clear which unit can be recruited there?
You see? It's not important that the building tells you what it does at first glance, as long as it is distinguishable from the other buildings, easily findable in the background clutter and notably different from the upgraded dwelling.
____________
Can you make a faction including these units?
Join the Finding Harmony competition 2.0!

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted July 03, 2015 08:50 AM

Steyn said:
Don't you think this is also a huge part experience? If you wouldn't know beforehand what every building was, not all their functions would be clear. For example, you have 3 horse-like units. Which one lives at the stables? Also, without the giant pegasus statue on top, there is no way of knowing what unit you can recruit at that giant waterfall. And how does a forest make clear unicorns can be recruited there? And this is only rampart. Think of castle: how do the dwellings for pikemen, archers and swordsmen make clear which unit can be recruited there?
You see? It's not important that the building tells you what it does at first glance, as long as it is distinguishable from the other buildings, easily findable in the background clutter and notably different from the upgraded dwelling.

Experience is certainly part of it, and you do have a good point with the H3 Castle dwellings, those were notoriously uninformative. When that's said, the H3 Castle exactly proves how it becomes a problem when dwellings are hard to tell apart, and even in H3 Castle, it was extremely easy to make out where the dwellings were - even if some of them looked very alike. In the H7 versions we not only have the problem that dwellings (ALL dwellings) are extremely non-informative, we ALSO have the problem that buildings in general aren't clearly defined at all - it's very hard to make out exactly where each building starts and the next stops. From a very objective point of view, I think the H7 screens have massive problems in this regard.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
TDL
TDL


Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
posted July 03, 2015 08:58 AM

Dat gif Jawdropping.

Also highlights one of the main reasons the current TS are horrible: no linear development. With the building of city hall/capitol, addition of extra background details (buildings) and further progression of the town upon the creation of dwellings, it just shows how vacant the current mumbo jumbo town screens are. It's as if, you know, there is a "dark side of the moon" to every town screen as if it is just a cardboard cutout.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
kiryu133
kiryu133


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
posted July 03, 2015 09:17 AM
Edited by kiryu133 at 09:19, 03 Jul 2015.

@Steyn

on top of what Alci said, even if the pikeman-archer-footman buildings are very similar and right next to each other, it's not hard to see where they are and it's just a matter of either remembering (which is not that hard: footman to the left, archer to the right) or noticing the differences (pikemen has a tower, footmen-archers has walls in different directions). I kinda like it to be honest, it's uniform, like a professional army. there's also pictures of the units on them, so that helps (and is probably there to ease confusion).

On rampart, once again it's very, very easy to differentiate the horse-buildings: one is in the lower left corner and is rather unassuming (centaurs), two are in the middle with one being tall and thin hinting at some flyer (pegasus), the other is a deep, dark forest (unicorn). The building designs are tied to unit roles and origin.

zones are also a very big help.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Adilmaru
Adilmaru


Adventuring Hero
posted July 03, 2015 12:09 PM

Hmmm, and what is point of comparing H3 and H7 TSs? Completely different art styles, with different idea of how town should look. Only thing that they have in common is 2D screena and nothibg else. What if I tell you both towns looks good to me? They both have some good and some bad things. But we get used to it.
Pretty much aim of your post guys, is to force us to hate what H7 did... Lame

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
TDL
TDL


Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
posted July 03, 2015 12:15 PM
Edited by TDL at 12:16, 03 Jul 2015.

No one's forcing you to adopt any different views. You can easily ignore all the riffraff if you so desire. We are discussing potential underlying problems, where we see them and how they could be averted.

Such threads are necessary to catch the attention of the developers, especially since they are following (albeit inattentively).

EDIT:

BTW, HoMM3 had a faux-3D environment built for town screens from which the 2D screens were captured.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted July 03, 2015 03:37 PM

kiryu133 said:
@Steyn

on top of what Alci said, even if the pikeman-archer-footman buildings are very similar and right next to each other, it's not hard to see where they are and it's just a matter of either remembering (which is not that hard: footman to the left, archer to the right) or noticing the differences (pikemen has a tower, footmen-archers has walls in different directions). I kinda like it to be honest, it's uniform, like a professional army. there's also pictures of the units on them, so that helps (and is probably there to ease confusion).

On rampart, once again it's very, very easy to differentiate the horse-buildings: one is in the lower left corner and is rather unassuming (centaurs), two are in the middle with one being tall and thin hinting at some flyer (pegasus), the other is a deep, dark forest (unicorn). The building designs are tied to unit roles and origin.

zones are also a very big help.

Now imagine if each dwelling had a few creatures roaming around their building #TheDream
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
TDL
TDL


Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
posted July 03, 2015 04:05 PM

I liked Medusa's statuary garden for that reason in H4. The stone statues around it felt like they were, well, once living
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Jump To: « Prev Thread . . . Next Thread » This thread is 50 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 10 20 30 40 ... 46 47 48 49 50 · «PREV / NEXT»
Post New Poll    Post New Topic    Post New Reply

Page compiled in 0.0781 seconds