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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Dragons as champion units.
Thread: Dragons as champion units. This thread is 6 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV
NACHOOOO
NACHOOOO


Known Hero
Pessimistically optimistic
posted September 06, 2014 06:26 AM

Galaad said:
blizz said:
H6 Black dragon was just horrible. It reminded me of a digimon.
Ahahaha, especially the way it flies, kind of comic


The animation of a dragon should be powerful and/or graceful. I thought the black dragon looked quite spectacular, but it's animation destroyed it. Flapping it's wings like a bird is just ridiculous. Dragons soar, their wings used for initial thrust and then sparingly afterwards. Something that big and heavy isn't realistically going to be able to fly anyway so there's no point making it flap around.

The Kirin's had great animation, appearing majestic. While you could argue the Kirin was pretty much a dragon I thought it was different enough to add some variety to the champion tier when you consider how it played. My personal preference is not that Dragons are eliminated from H7, just not overused. If a creature is dragonesque such as the Kirin, but has it's own unique play style then I am more than happy with it's inclusion. Just don't give me 5 different variations of the same thing, and if the guys want to get bang for buck out of using a particular model type, I think the smarter option would be to create an extra neutral dragon as opposed to putting one into a 3rd, 4th faction
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Rakshasa92
Rakshasa92


Supreme Hero
posted September 08, 2014 06:24 PM

Original mythology dragons? YES PLEASE!

Rainbow colored, uninspired (+ name) D&D dragons like the Black and Green Dragon? HELL NO.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted September 09, 2014 01:20 PM

I am traditionally attached to HoMM iconic units. Black dragons are one of them, and they should by all means be included. Not just because it's a friendly gesture towards loyal fans, but also... they just look damn good. Especially if modeled properly.

Some of the sound effects they make are also cool. The extremely low growls of shadow dragons in HoMM5 made my room tremble with bass, which was kinda cool.
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somi
somi


Known Hero
posted September 09, 2014 08:28 PM

I want exactly two dragons in the game. Black one for the dungeon, and bone one for the necros (maybe without wings)  

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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
posted September 09, 2014 10:16 PM

Just a thought that came into my mind. This topic discusses the number of dragons in the game, but in the end, we don't know how many factions for which dragons are typical will be in the game.

From the 4 introduced factions only one, Necropolis, has traditionally a dragon as a top tier unit. some may argue that the wyvern/pao kai from stronghold is a sort of a dragon by itself. But similar like in the case of the Kirin most will agree that these creatures are unique enough to be tolerated.

From the factions that usually do have a dragons as a champions we know that we are getting one (most likely Sylvan) but also that one will not be present in the vanila game (Most likely Fortress). Dungeon, the last traditionally faction with dragons, has its showdown ahead of it.

So in the end, we can end up with something between 1-3 dragons in the vanilla game. From a total of 12+ champions that's not that bad. (Let us not calculate with the other factions, since the future is dark and full ...)

In the end, I think the final number of dragons in the game will come down to 3 questions.

1: How many factions in the game do have a tradition of dragons in their line-up
- For now we have 2, the final number might be 3.
2: Do we have alternatives for dragons for these factions, or can we (devs and designers) think of any?
- We already know that Haven and Academy is dragon free, And both Stronghold and Necropolis have enough alternatives in their portfolios. But does Sylvan, Fortress or Dungeon have valid options?
3: How many dragons can we (devs and designers) get away with?
- Let's face it a dragon as a champion is the easiest way to fill the spot. So if we are out of ideas why not add another of those lizards. But what is the limit for them? 2? 3? 4?
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Protolisk
Protolisk


Promising
Famous Hero
posted September 09, 2014 10:39 PM

Sort of going off what Dave_Jame said, the ratio between number of champions and number of Dragon champions are be vastly different. A problem with H5 was that it had 4 tier 7 families (not counting upgrades here) that were dragons, out of 8 (nine if you count Phoenix, but you can't readily recruit those...). But, even if we try to slam all the dragon-having factions into this game, we can at "worst" (if the goal was to have the known factions in H7 and all the dragon factions, somehow added in votes/ later expansions) you could at best get away with 6 (green, black, bone, and flame, with Kirin and Wyvern as possible extras).

But this would mean that you have those six factions plus Academy and Haven (which are already confirmed), which would give you a staggering number of 16 champions to choose from, of which there is only six dragons. A 3/8 ratio. And if you slapped in Inferno, that'd be 18 champs. 1/3 is much more tolerable than H5's 1/2 (which, if you recall, is the same ratio as H3...). (and if you decide to not count Kirin and Wyvern... that's 2/9.)

I don't see why not. What I wouldn't like, in factions at least, is to see the "yellow" dragon of Elrath and the "white" dragon of Ylath, along with the "blue" dragon of Shalassa (as Kirins are spirits, not actually dragons) but those instead as bosses (like the Hai Ryou was a Water Dragon, or rather, a Dragon Eel)

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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted September 09, 2014 10:43 PM

Dave_Jame said:
1: How many factions in the game do have a tradition of dragons in their line-up
- For now we have 2, the final number might be 3.

The total number of factions that have a history of having Dragons as Champions is 4. Namely Dungeon, Fortress, Necropolis and Sylvan. As you rightly say, we look to be getting 2 of those in HeroesVII Vanilla.

Dave_Jame said:

2: Do we have alternatives for dragons for these factions, or can we (devs and designers) think of any?
- We already know that Haven and Academy is dragon free, And both Stronghold and Necropolis have enough alternatives in their portfolios. But does Sylvan, Fortress or Dungeon have valid options?

Yes, they do and even if they don't, they'll have to come up with something quickly or else.
In case of Sylvan: Treants spring to mind; They have a History of Phoenixes, but that would conflict with current lore; They could give Giant Mantisses another go, or Gargantuans, but those would be a stretch.
In case of Dungeon: Hydras spring to mind; Faceless could be elevated to be the equal of Angels;
In case of Fortress: Fire Giants are known to be attached to Fortress, according to the Compendium. Other then that, Fortress lacks lore-development at this point in time.
In Case of Necropolis: Fate Weavers spring to mind; Wraiths could be elevated a little; Perhaps Dread Knights, but that would be a real stretch to put them at Champion in stead of Elite.

Dave_Jame said:

3: How many dragons can we (devs and designers) get away with?
- Let's face it a dragon as a champion is the easiest way to fill the spot. So if we are out of ideas why not add another of those lizards. But what is the limit for them? 2? 3? 4?

How many Dragons could they get away with? As far as lore is concerned, I think 9. Follow along if you please: 1 Black Dragon, 2 Green Dragon, 3 Bone Dragon, 4 Magma Dragon, (Now we're getting in speculation town) 5 Blue Dragon(Sanctuary, as a Shalassa Dragon), 6 Faerie Dragon(Sylvan), 7 Gold Dragon(Haven, Elrath Dragon), 8 White/Grey Dragon (Haven/Stronghold/New Faction, Ylath Dragon), 9 Dragon Golem(Academy, iffy if you want to count this as a dragon). There could be a Dragon in any faction that isn't Inferno.
As far as "da fanz" are concerned, 4, maybe 5. Perhaps. Depends a lot on what "fanz" you're talking to.
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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted September 09, 2014 10:53 PM
Edited by Storm-Giant at 22:53, 09 Sep 2014.

War-overlord said:
Dave_Jame said:

3: How many dragons can we (devs and designers) get away with?
- Let's face it a dragon as a champion is the easiest way to fill the spot. So if we are out of ideas why not add another of those lizards. But what is the limit for them? 2? 3? 4?

How many Dragons could they get away with? As far as lore is concerned, I think 9. Follow along if you please: 1 Black Dragon, 2 Green Dragon, 3 Bone Dragon, 4 Magma Dragon, (Now we're getting in speculation town) 5 Blue Dragon(Sanctuary, as a Shalassa Dragon), 6 Faerie Dragon(Sylvan), 7 Gold Dragon(Haven, Elrath Dragon), 8 White/Grey Dragon (Haven/Stronghold/New Faction, Ylath Dragon), 9 Dragon Golem(Academy, iffy if you want to count this as a dragon). There could be a Dragon in any faction that isn't Inferno.
As far as "da fanz" are concerned, 4, maybe 5. Perhaps. Depends a lot on what "fanz" you're talking to.

Here the problem are the cromatic dragons: blue, White and Gold dragons sounds boring (having already Green dragons & Blackies).

Faerie and Golem Dragons are original enough to be accepted, imo. Magma dragons aren't my favourite ones, but as you rightly pointed out, Fortress lacks lore-development.
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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted September 09, 2014 10:59 PM

Storm-Giant said:
Here the problem are the cromatic dragons: blue, White and Gold dragons sounds boring (having already Green dragons & Blackies).

The problem is, we already know these Dragons exist, as all of the Elemental Gods have Dragons on the planet. What we do not know is what they are called, but there is little doubt of their existance.
Heck, for all we know, Magmas could be renamed as Red Dragons, seeing how much of HeroesV has been retconned.

Come to think of that, it's not exactly certain how cannon they are, but the HeroesV Red and Crystal Dragons are also out there, but wether they are different species of Dragon or if they are subspecies of the Greens and Blacks or if they aren't cannon at all any more. Which might actuall up the number of Dragons to 11.
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