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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Should Ashan be scraped?
Thread: Should Ashan be scraped? This thread is 42 pages long: 1 ... 8 9 10 11 12 ... 20 30 40 42 · «PREV / NEXT»
Stormcaller
Stormcaller


Famous Hero
posted September 13, 2014 10:13 PM

Half of might and magic was stolen from warhammer tabletop.
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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted September 13, 2014 10:17 PM

And so probably was a good chunk of Warcraft.

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Raelag84
Raelag84


Famous Hero
posted September 14, 2014 01:24 AM

I think the only real way to minimize cliche (thought not totally get rid of) in a fantasy world is to move it out of Medieval Europe type setting to something more unique. What that something should be I don't know exactly, though my own fantasy world is focused around the tropics.

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DarkLord
DarkLord


Supreme Hero
Fear me..
posted September 14, 2014 04:04 AM

Raelag84 said:
Theory:

Most people who played H3 first will think Ashan should be scraped.

Most people who played H5 first will think ashan should not be scraped.

Nothing anyone says will change anyone's mind.

Make sense?


I would disagree with you

I dont see it as H3 vs H5 or Old uvinverse vs Ashan universe

I think the question is bad story vs new better one
why because Ashan has a lot of cliche's and also limitations due to dragon gods etc.

The old universe was much more complex then that.

Even if Ubi is not planning to return to old universe
they can however finally destroy Ashan by the hands of Sareth the dark messiah
and move on into new world without dragon gods and etc

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Raelag84
Raelag84


Famous Hero
posted September 14, 2014 01:55 PM

DarkLord said:
Raelag84 said:
Theory:

Most people who played H3 first will think Ashan should be scraped.

Most people who played H5 first will think ashan should not be scraped.

Nothing anyone says will change anyone's mind.

Make sense?


I would disagree with you

I dont see it as H3 vs H5 or Old uvinverse vs Ashan universe

I think the question is bad story vs new better one
why because Ashan has a lot of cliche's and also limitations due to dragon gods etc.

The old universe was much more complex then that.

Even if Ubi is not planning to return to old universe
they can however finally destroy Ashan by the hands of Sareth the dark messiah
and move on into new world without dragon gods and etc


Possibly, but what would they replace it with?

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VOKIALBG
VOKIALBG


Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
posted September 14, 2014 02:06 PM

MattII said:
VOKIALBG said:
And do you not notice that the whole Sylvan thing is WoW copy? Where else you have that strong connection between elves and emeralds?
Well it's a bit out of the way, but Elves (of the negative sort) have featured big in Irish myth, and Ireland is poetically know as 'the emerald isle'.


You have emeralds, moon animals, stags, same society same look of them, same clothing... same interests... same hair style As someone else said, we have this STRONG WoW feeling about them. This wasnt that way pre-Ubi. HoMM has its own universe and MUST fallow it. Not just copy everything thats in the today pop culture.
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ShardofTruth
ShardofTruth


Hired Hero
posted September 14, 2014 03:12 PM
Edited by ShardofTruth at 15:50, 14 Sep 2014.

Well then why did the Elves wore mostly green in all Might and Magic games pre-Heroes V?

If Ubisoft kept the old universe the outcry here would be even bigger, because then they even the old games would somehow become stained and ruined forever.

I agree that storytelling in Ashan (especially outside the expansions of Heroes V and VI) is often subpar and sometimes all-over the place but this was the case for the older games too.
With the exception of Heroes IV, I never had the feeling that NWC wanted to deliver a high quality story, it's all pretty generic fantasy stuff that mixes alot of themes and mythology.
And as long as the story is entertaining that's fine in my book, because the Heroes series wasn't and probably will never be really good in this area.

As I said before, Heroes IV really stood out but that was because it was basically a book with gameplay interuptions and even the longest spanning Heroes saga NWC ever created, the seven labours of Tarnum the barbarian, was often silly and cringe-worthy.

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted September 14, 2014 05:32 PM

ShardofTruth said:
If Ubisoft kept the old universe the outcry here would be even bigger, because then they even the old games would somehow become stained and ruined forever.


that's great that you've apparently been to an alternate universe where they genuinely tried their best to honor 25 years and three generations worth of lore
maybe we can swap places, you can keep coming up with dodgy arguments to defend Ubisoft in this universe, and I can get some objective insight as to how much better the storytelling is in the other one, because I know for sure it couldn't possibly be any worse

lol

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Raelag84
Raelag84


Famous Hero
posted September 14, 2014 07:54 PM

verriker said:
ShardofTruth said:
If Ubisoft kept the old universe the outcry here would be even bigger, because then they even the old games would somehow become stained and ruined forever.


that's great that you've apparently been to an alternate universe where they genuinely tried their best to honor 25 years and three generations worth of lore
maybe we can swap places, you can keep coming up with dodgy arguments to defend Ubisoft in this universe, and I can get some objective insight as to how much better the storytelling is in the other one, because I know for sure it couldn't possibly be any worse

lol


Is there a reason the story might be better if Ubisoft went back to original 3DO universe? I could have a six year old write a story in the original universe and it would still be terrible most likely.

Besides, the common criticism for Ubisoft is that it is failing to be original, but if it went back to the old universe it would still be unoriginal, because, 3DO already made that universe.

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RMZ1989
RMZ1989


Supreme Hero
posted September 14, 2014 08:28 PM

Raelag84 said:
verriker said:
ShardofTruth said:
If Ubisoft kept the old universe the outcry here would be even bigger, because then they even the old games would somehow become stained and ruined forever.


that's great that you've apparently been to an alternate universe where they genuinely tried their best to honor 25 years and three generations worth of lore
maybe we can swap places, you can keep coming up with dodgy arguments to defend Ubisoft in this universe, and I can get some objective insight as to how much better the storytelling is in the other one, because I know for sure it couldn't possibly be any worse

lol


Is there a reason the story might be better if Ubisoft went back to original 3DO universe? I could have a six year old write a story in the original universe and it would still be terrible most likely.

Besides, the common criticism for Ubisoft is that it is failing to be original, but if it went back to the old universe it would still be unoriginal, because, 3DO already made that universe.

Yeah and I am pretty sure that they can always find a way to f*ck things up.

Is the old universe better than the current one? Probably. Would it be better when Ubisoft get a grip on it? I seriously doubt it.
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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted September 14, 2014 09:02 PM

VOKIALBG said:
You have emeralds, moon animals, stags, same society same look of them, same clothing... same interests... same hair style As someone else said, we have this STRONG WoW feeling about them.
Oh I'm not saying they didn't copy WoW, just that specifically linking elves with emeralds is still possible without going via WoW.

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Protolisk
Protolisk


Promising
Famous Hero
posted September 14, 2014 09:03 PM

MattII said:
Oh I'm not saying they didn't copy WoW, just that specifically linking elves with emeralds is still possible without going via WoW.


Alright, I am confused. The only thing I see from WoW with emeralds is the Emerald Dragons and sleep. Why are elves connected with emeralds?

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Raelag84
Raelag84


Famous Hero
posted September 15, 2014 12:29 AM

Protolisk said:
MattII said:
Oh I'm not saying they didn't copy WoW, just that specifically linking elves with emeralds is still possible without going via WoW.


Alright, I am confused. The only thing I see from WoW with emeralds is the Emerald Dragons and sleep. Why are elves connected with emeralds?


Just the color green, I think. Elves have been associated with the woods which tend to be green, like emeralds.

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VOKIALBG
VOKIALBG


Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
posted September 15, 2014 08:25 PM
Edited by VOKIALBG at 20:25, 15 Sep 2014.

Raelag84 said:
Protolisk said:
MattII said:
Oh I'm not saying they didn't copy WoW, just that specifically linking elves with emeralds is still possible without going via WoW.


Alright, I am confused. The only thing I see from WoW with emeralds is the Emerald Dragons and sleep. Why are elves connected with emeralds?


Just the color green, I think. Elves have been associated with the woods which tend to be green, like emeralds.


Cant they think up something new, without just taking the Warcraft idea? Its not that hard. And its not only the emeralds. I posted some more info.
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Avirosb
Avirosb


Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
posted September 15, 2014 08:48 PM

Quote:
I agree that storytelling in Ashan (especially outside the expansions of Heroes V and VI) is often subpar and sometimes all-over the place but this was the case for the older games too.

Maybe so.
Still, I'd much rather read a NWC book than watch a Ubisoft  movie.
It is a shame that new games rely so much on voice acting and cutscenes to tell their stories, leaving nothing to the imagination.

Old games had them too, but they were scarce and had direction beyond *casts random spell*,
and were far more subdued.

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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
posted September 15, 2014 08:52 PM

It's true that no in game animation could replace the vision in your head. Especially of some topics like death and cruelty.

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Protolisk
Protolisk


Promising
Famous Hero
posted September 15, 2014 09:06 PM

VOKIALBG said:

Cant they think up something new, without just taking the Warcraft idea? Its not that hard. And its not only the emeralds. I posted some more info.


Okay, I read the other posts you have on this thread, and yes, I agree that some of the art work looks kinda like WoW elves (especially the face), but they also look like Warhammer Elves, D&D elves... and so on. Which mostly all take cues from Tolkien elves anyway.

And you said "they are connected to emeralds", but I have yet to see WHY they are connected. "They are connected" isn't much of an answer to "How are they connected?".  I know there are the Green Dragons and their weird emerald dream aspect, but those are dragons, not the elves. So I am still confused as to why you keep saying this. If you just mean emerald as a color, okay, I can understand, but you kept saying "emeraldS" which makes it seem like you mean the gemstone, which I have not seen nor has it been properly explained. I'll take your side, but I just need some examples.

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VOKIALBG
VOKIALBG


Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
posted September 15, 2014 09:14 PM

I think in both game its more the colour.
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gangrelrumbler
gangrelrumbler

Tavern Dweller
posted September 17, 2014 02:30 PM

Sure they could try to develop Ashan further but really why bother? It's a strategy game, the faction design is more imporant than arbitraty rules of the universe. And seriously if after making 7 games or something in a setting that setting is not well-loved or at least generally liked you may as well give-up and start from scratch because it probably won't be the next Planescape. Why waste time on something mediocre if you can spend it to make something new? It's not like generic fantasy universe are terribly hard to make. They also don't have to abandon every good part of Ashan after all they brought in Sandro and Crag Hack while trashing the generic and kitch but charming and well liked NVC universe.
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Raelag84
Raelag84


Famous Hero
posted September 17, 2014 03:38 PM

VOKIALBG said:


Cant they think up something new, without just taking the Warcraft idea? Its not that hard. And its not only the emeralds. I posted some more info.


How new should the Heroes universe really be? Fantasy can be anything that's not real. Anything.

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