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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted September 09, 2014 11:34 PM |
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What about the people who started out with H5, then moved on to H3 to see what all the 'old-timers' were talking about?
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted September 09, 2014 11:51 PM |
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Matt has a point, most "old fanatics" as you call them, have played both ubi and nwc/3do games, while a smaller percent of the ubi newcomers did that.
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Raelag84
Famous Hero
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posted September 10, 2014 12:25 AM |
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MattII said:
What about the people who started out with H5, then moved on to H3 to see what all the 'old-timers' were talking about?
I am one of those. Playing it, It was easy to see see why H3 was a great game for its time. The story was certainly better than in H5, or at least what I saw was of it was. I still haven't played through all of H3, but from what I did see, I would have to say that the Ashan universe is an advance from the H3 world.
Look, when I first played Final fantasy VII, it was a life changing moment. It was the most beautiful game I have every played, but realistically I can't expect new players to love the game as much as I did, because, they would be comparing it to new games that are more advanced. Thing just have to progress.
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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted September 10, 2014 12:43 AM |
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Raelag84 said:
Theory:
Most people who played H3 first will think Ashan should be scraped.
Most people who played H5 first will think ashan should not be scraped.
Nothing anyone says will change anyone's mind.
Make sense?
I, for one, am an example against your hypothesis. I played H3 since it came out (granted, I was young...) and found it extremely enjoyable with my brother. Then H5 came out. We played that one a lot more, because it just felt nicer to us.
Sure, the story could use some polish (okay, a lot of polish) but I don't mind the setting or the lore. Now, believable dialogue and overall good writing...
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted September 10, 2014 12:55 AM |
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Raelag84 said:
I still haven't played through all of H3, but from what I did see, I would have to say that the Ashan universe is an advance from the H3 world.
Heroes III, and even more Heroes II, are also a lot about their atmosphere. Graphics are used to make you experience very specific worlds. I wonder what you mean by saying Ashan universe is "in advance" ?
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted September 10, 2014 02:34 AM |
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Galaad said:
Raelag84 said:
I still haven't played through all of H3, but from what I did see, I would have to say that the Ashan universe is an advance from the H3 world.
Heroes III, and even more Heroes II, are also a lot about their atmosphere. Graphics are used to make you experience very specific worlds. I wonder what you mean by saying Ashan universe is "in advance" ?
Flyby town screens 
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Raelag84
Famous Hero
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posted September 10, 2014 02:37 AM |
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Edited by Raelag84 at 02:40, 10 Sep 2014.
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Galaad said:
Raelag84 said:
I still haven't played through all of H3, but from what I did see, I would have to say that the Ashan universe is an advance from the H3 world.
Heroes III, and even more Heroes II, are also a lot about their atmosphere. Graphics are used to make you experience very specific worlds. I wonder what you mean by saying Ashan universe is "in advance" ?
I mean it's organized, intuitive, yet still huge enough make a lot of stories.
To heck with the crappy narratives they spin in the actual games. Give me a world and I will fill it with my own tales.
Wish I could do that with the heroes 3 world, but because it's more abstract it's harder. Ironically it is easier for me to think of a fan fic for Lizardwarrior's world than it is for Heroes 3 world.
All that said, taking good factions, characters, and characters out of the heroes 3 and putting in Ashan wouldn't be that difficult. How Ubisoft has managed to bungle that up is a mystery.
@Protolisk
Interesting. What did you think of heroes 4?
@Avirosb
Don't stick your tongue out at me. Ever.
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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted September 10, 2014 03:22 AM |
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It was... okay. We got used to how H3 was played, and H4 was radically different. It kinda turned us away. We still had it and played it, but it wasn't as good.
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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted September 10, 2014 03:22 AM |
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted September 10, 2014 05:13 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 05:16, 10 Sep 2014.
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Okay, divorcing the storytelling side of H5 from the mechanics, it does seem quite stale, I mean even H3 Vanilla, for all its short campaigns gave us the Tatalia/Krewlod campaign, focussing on factions not directly involved in the main plotline. This is not to say that Ashan is irredeemable, but given past performance, the script-writers really have their work cut out for them to do it.
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Raelag84
Famous Hero
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posted September 10, 2014 02:12 PM |
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MattII said:
Okay, divorcing the storytelling side of H5 from the mechanics, it does seem quite stale, I mean even H3 Vanilla, for all its short campaigns gave us the Tatalia/Krewlod campaign, focussing on factions not directly involved in the main plotline. This is not to say that Ashan is irredeemable, but given past performance, the script-writers really have their work cut out for them to do it.
Indeed. The story telling of H5 is terrible, but not the world building.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted September 10, 2014 02:19 PM |
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I think we all can agree that improving the storytelling would make Ashan less despised.
Not that I'm implying it wouldn't have silly ideas and restrictions, but it's difficult to have a unbiased point of view if you only had bad experiences.
____________
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted September 10, 2014 10:52 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 23:24, 10 Sep 2014.
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Raelag84 said:
Indeed. The story telling of H5 is terrible, but not the world building.
No, the world-building isn't terrible, but there remains a lot a room for improvement.
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Raelag84
Famous Hero
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posted September 11, 2014 12:58 AM |
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Edited by Raelag84 at 01:00, 11 Sep 2014.
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MattII said:
Raelag84 said:
Indeed. The story telling of H5 is terrible, but not the world building.
No, the world-building isn't terrible, but there remains a lot a room for improvement.
As much fun as I have had with Ashan, I think I would have to agree.
@Galaad.
Fair enough. I will try to do that.
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Pavijan
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 13, 2014 10:16 AM |
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Edited by Pavijan at 10:17, 13 Sep 2014.
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Ashan should DEFINITELY be scrapped or, even better, incorporated, as one of the planets, in old M&M universe. They are always ways to do it, one of better things about old universe is that it was so imaginative that you could pull anything there. 
That is also my main gripe with Ashan, its too restrictive and nothing truly great and original cold be written as story there, we are convicted to old fantasy tropes over and over again.
I adored H5 (with TOTE of course) in game play terms. But that atrocious campaigns (especially afer h4 original, not counting the GS and WoW expansions, campains, which are for me a pinnacle in story telling in TBS) and everything that I have read from manuals and such killed every interest in lore of the games. I didn't play H6 campains (game being snow didn't influence that) and don't care a bit about H7 ones, while as a game it seems pretty awesome.
Who FFS thought that scrapping a much beloved universe and doing it all from scratch in some absolutely generic crap with which nobody feels any connection is a good business deal is beyond me...
A large procent of negative criticism of newer Heroes is because uninteresting story and lore, and that is also driving some (maybe not much, but they exist) potential customers away. They have some really strange people working there...
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VOKIALBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted September 13, 2014 01:19 PM |
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And do you not notice that the whole Sylvan thing is WoW copy? Where else you have that strong connection between elves and emeralds?
____________
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Raelag84
Famous Hero
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posted September 13, 2014 09:05 PM |
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Pavijan said:
...That is also my main gripe with Ashan, its too restrictive and nothing truly great and original cold be written as story there, we are convicted to old fantasy tropes over and over again...
There's plenty of room for good stories in Ashan. Why they haven't been written yet is beyond me.
@VokiaBG
I wonder where WOW copied it from.
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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted September 13, 2014 09:14 PM |
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VOKIALBG said:
And do you not notice that the whole Sylvan thing is WoW copy? Where else you have that strong connection between elves and emeralds?
Maybe because I haven't played much of WoW, and most of my memory of Warcraft comes from Warcraft 3, but... nowhere? Night Elves seemed to like the moon, trees and shapeshifting, and Blood elves like the Sun, and magic-dampening/ever increased magical capability. So, um...?
I guess you could also argue for Warhammer(didn't Dungeon "steal" from this?) but I know even less about them, so I wouldn't know.
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted September 13, 2014 09:34 PM |
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Raelag84 said:
I wonder where WOW copied it from.
Tolkien, most fantasy games copied LoTR: elves, dwarves, orcs etc.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted September 13, 2014 10:12 PM |
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VOKIALBG said:
And do you not notice that the whole Sylvan thing is WoW copy? Where else you have that strong connection between elves and emeralds?
Well it's a bit out of the way, but Elves (of the negative sort) have featured big in Irish myth, and Ireland is poetically know as 'the emerald isle'.
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