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War-overlord
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Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted October 09, 2014 08:09 PM |
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Stevie said:
I think that Inferno is a combination of Mechanics Villain and Narrative Villain. And It's clearly not the only villain out there.
I didn't claim it to be the only Villain.
But care to explain how you see Inferno as Narrative?
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Stevie
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posted October 09, 2014 08:12 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 20:13, 09 Oct 2014.
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The entire side of Inferno that displays sentient thoughts and other goals than just destruction, even if it's for the sake of better destruction. Kha-beleth, Incubus and Succubus mainly... Even the Overlords had a sense of possession and leading demons...
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War-overlord
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Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted October 09, 2014 08:20 PM |
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Stevie said:
The entire side of Inferno that displays sentient thoughts and other goals than just destruction, even if it's for the sake of better destruction. Kha-beleth, Incubus and Succubus mainly... Even the Overlords had a sense of possession and leading demons...
If the goal is better destruction, then the not-destruction is not the goal, it's the means.
And the fact that they supposedly think and plann, does not make them Narrative Villains. It makes them Mechanics Villains like Bowser and Dr. Wily.
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Stevie
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posted October 09, 2014 08:24 PM |
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So what's Kha-Beleth to you, mechanics or narrative?
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War-overlord
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Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted October 09, 2014 08:34 PM |
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Stevie said:
So what's Kha-Beleth to you, mechanics or narrative?
Mechanics, though he has the potential to become Narrative in the future if we get to know more about him and his goals and reasoning.
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Stevie
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posted October 09, 2014 08:45 PM |
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Ok, then Sandro what type of villain is, mechanics or narrative?
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JollyJoker
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posted October 09, 2014 08:48 PM |
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For frag's sake, they did it all RIGHT with HoMM 5 staging the scene, then coming up with the the Dark (Demon) Messiah - and then they suddenly are afraid to take the story further.
It's like they tell the Bible up to Jesus shouldering the darn cross - flashback to hiow EXACTLY the silly Arch was built and how the penguins got saved last moment - amnd now it's flashback to how Moses travelled the desert. Abraham not sacrificing Issac coming next.
In short - REDUNDANT. We were on the brink of Inferno being redeemed - to exactly what we all want: MORE than a mechanic evil.
But no. Void Ripples. Christ.
I mean - that's the silly thing: the whole Holy Empire stuff is completely bland compared with what is at stake with the Chaos side - but, hey, Falcon is getting sacked and Griffin takes over. 
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War-overlord
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Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted October 09, 2014 08:54 PM |
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Stevie said:
Ok, then Sandro what type of villain is, mechanics or narrative?
Still Mechanics, assuming that he isn't a protagonist.
Sandro borders on Narrative, but we don't know why he does what he does. If he had a clear motivation to do what he does, he could be upgraded but as we stand now, he's not. The lack of motivation for his actions, stops us from questioning it. Is it worth to do what he does to achieve his goals? Without it, he's simply a very good Moustache-Twirling Magnificent B@st@rd.
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Stevie
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posted October 09, 2014 09:04 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 21:10, 09 Oct 2014.
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Exactly. Which means that Mechanics heroes can be very successful too.
So what are we talking about?
@JJ.
I feel compelled... to agree with you. There, I said it. But you just found my kryptonite. That Bible example was simply under the belt. 
But, I have one objection. If a prequel would've been relevant to the action following Dark Messiah, it would've been good. Like, past events that are hints as well as explanations to Sareth choice. Do you agree?
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War-overlord
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Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted October 09, 2014 09:19 PM |
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Stevie said:
Exactly. Which means that Mechanics heroes can be very successful too.
So what are we talking about?
Not wether Mechanics Villains are bad or cannot be succesfull, but if they can preform in a Narrative role.
Sandro works because he is almost there. All he lacks is clear motivation (he has an obscure one now) and he's Narrative.
But the same cannot be said about Inferno as a whole.
The campaigns we've seen of Inferno have both been of Heroes who have strayed so far from the Inferno norm that their allegiance to Inferno was questionable at best. Heck, Agreal wanted out and Kiril was little more then an unwilling pawn. The sheer fact that both needed to differ from the goals of Inferno to make story-telling possible, is already a clear indication that the faction is badly suited for a narrative role.
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Avonu
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posted October 09, 2014 09:27 PM |
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War-overlord said:
The campaigns we've seen of Inferno have both been of Heroes who have strayed so far from the Inferno norm that their allegiance to Inferno was questionable at best. Heck, Agreal wanted out and Kiril was little more then an unwilling pawn.
You forgot about Aidan and Jezebeth from Clash of Heroes.
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War-overlord
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posted October 09, 2014 09:31 PM |
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Avonu said:
You forgot about Aidan and Jezebeth from Clash of Heroes.
I've never played that. Puzzlegames that aren't point-'n-click adventures aren't my thing.
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JollyJoker
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posted October 09, 2014 09:37 PM |
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Stevie said:
But, I have one objection. If a prequel would've been relevant to the action following Dark Messiah, it would've been good. Like, past events that are hints as well as explanations to Sareth choice. Do you agree?
Absolutely!
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verriker
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We don't need another 'eroes
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posted October 09, 2014 09:44 PM |
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if the campaign of H7 were instead about a council to decide whether Sareth should use the skull or not, even I would be interested to play it lol
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War-overlord
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posted October 09, 2014 09:50 PM |
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verriker said:
if the campaign of H7 were instead about a council to decide whether Sareth should use the skull or not, even I would be interested to play it lol
Too bad that's still centuries into the future.
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JollyJoker
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posted October 09, 2014 09:51 PM |
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Yeah. Imagine TWO Demon factions.
1) The chosen people. The cleverer demon ilk. Succubae (of course); Devils; Nightmares, Imps ... Lacerators... Those would want to gain life on Ashan (to subtly subvert the rest, having fun in the course of it.
2) The lost. The brutal ones. Juggernauts. Pit Lords, Cerberi, Demons. Destruction.
Ok, Elves reloaded, but with a twist. 
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verriker
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We don't need another 'eroes
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posted October 09, 2014 09:55 PM |
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War-overlord said:
Too bad that's still centuries into the future.
I know lol, I'm not saying have someone tell Ivan a story about Sareth, I'm saying if it was Sareth instead of Ivan, like forget Ivan lol
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DarkLord
Supreme Hero
Fear me..
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posted October 09, 2014 10:02 PM |
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new Dungeon unit! 
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War-overlord
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Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted October 09, 2014 10:14 PM |
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Not enough Purple, Dark.
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DarkLord
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posted October 09, 2014 10:26 PM |
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War-overlord said:
Not enough Purple, Dark.
hah! ok then.. purple blast!!!
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This thread is pages long: 
