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| Thread: Talk about Neutrals |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · NEXT» |
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted February 06, 2015 12:38 PM |
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Talk about Neutrals
I would like to start a topic about neutrals, but before I'll start writing down my opinions I would like to know how other people feel about this topic. So for the start, it would be nice, if at least few people could share their opinion about the following topics:
- How important are neutrals for the game?
- What is the role of a neutral creature?
- How strong should a neutral creature be?
- Should they be recruitable? And what should their price/population be.
- How many should/could there be in the game.
- Elementals: Should we leave them out?
Also, if anybody has a related idea please contribute.
Currently known neutrals:
Sea Elf Pirate (Pirate)
Gryphon
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Rakshasa92
Supreme Hero
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posted February 06, 2015 12:55 PM |
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The current neutrals suck, I mean, to have less humans the Gryphon (or maybe Chamrosh to come more into the wolf-bird spheres) should have been in the Haven town, not neutral.
The sea elf is horrible, lets have some blood, kitchen and slave elves too... Oh wait... we have slave elves already...
Anyway for your questions:
- How important are neutrals for the game?
VERY important in my opinion, not that I care about ashan, but if we ever see a good HOMM game (hint hint, sell the franchise)I want as many and awesome neutrals as possible, they add flavor and diversity, and i'm getting sick and tired pretty quickly by fighting the same creatures over and over again.
- What is the role of a neutral creature?
To bring diversity in battles mostly, and just to add in all the creatures that couldn't make it into factions and which AREN'T of the dominant race type, maybe renegade ones though.
- How strong should a neutral creature be?
Depends on the system, if you have HOMM3 system there should be like more level 1,2,3 and 4 creatures than there are more powerful level 5,6 and 7 creatures. But strength depends on which level the creature is.
- Should they be recruitable? And what should their price/population be.
Yes, but with many rules. If it takes too much time then no, just make them enemies on the map to fight.
- How many should/could there be in the game.
I think 20 is a lovely number, maybe even more to ad diversity which I love, but it kinda depends on the number of factions you can choose from. 10 factions means less neutrals, and 5 factions means a snowload of neutrals.
- Elementals: Should we leave them out?
No please, been there done that, they look horrible, childish, pokemonish and fugly. A child would approve them, i'm not so gentle.
I would rather see creatures BASED on the elements, such as Salamander, Ifrit or Rarog for Fire, Undine, Engulfer or Vodyanoi for water, Djinn, Sylph or Anemoi for Air and Antaeus, Kobold or Gnome for earth, of course Ice, Lightning, Light and Darkness/Shadow would be welcome too.
- What types of Neutrals do you want to see?
I like to see some TRULY neutral creatures that don't fit in with any faction, but also some neutrals that have links or connections with the different factions, I for one would love to see a neutral Manticore that has connections to dungeon, but not takes a spot there.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted February 06, 2015 02:22 PM |
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It is common knowledge in medieval literature that a hero spends lots of time wandering on the path of his quest, or looking for a quest if he doesn’t has one. Before reaching his goal, he often encounter side adventures. Therefore I see neutrals as a wink to that. Neutrals in Heroes of Might and Magic games tend to guard treasures, and sometimes, artifacts. By confronting neutrals, the hero will gain experience, and become more powerful and eventually more armed to further his ongoing road. As much important are adventure dwellings, such as Dragon Utopias to quote the most rewardfull one. So yes, I believe neutrals are a very important aspect of the game, as the adventure and exploring side has always been an aspect that can, in my opinion, enrich the gaming experience.
I think the strength of neutral creatures can vary, to some weaklings guarding common resources mines to the most dangerous and fearsome ones which will bring higher rewards. I think all neutrals should be of different strength according to what you can benefit from defeating them.
I think they should be recruitable, but that it should be not easy, that some dwellings must be rare, and well guarded. If is too easy, I believe there is no much interest in the creature. Remember Diamond and Gold golems in Heroes III? They always had a higher value because not recruitable in town, so extra creatures available in adventure dwellings is something that can trigger the player’s interest if the game makes them worth it. I believe there should be lots of neutral creatures, but a few powerful, like the Azure Dragons, again in Heroes III (sorry for quoting mainly this game, is the one I know best).
Finally, about elementals, I always liked them, as neutrals. I only want them to have unique design, not copied-pasted Light/Air/Dark with tweaked textures like we had in Heroes VI.
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted February 06, 2015 02:53 PM |
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How important are neutrals for the game?
Imo neutrals are not necessary for a good heroes game. However they do add that nice extra variety to the game that is good for replayability and atmosphere. I'm not really sure why this effect is stronger for neutrals than for faction affiliated units. I guess that it is because they are more scarce, so you play with them less often, and that they can have roles not suited for faction units.
What is the role of a neutral creature?
The nice thing about neutrals is that they can fill the niche roles not suited for faction units. Roles that come to mind are wildlife creatures and bandits, water specific units, campaign specific units, units from factions not (yet) included in the game and really strong or really weak creatures.
By having neutrals the maps feel a bit more alive, as they are not only populated by soldiers and war beasts, but also by 'normal' units. Also they provide tools for mapmakers to make changes to a line-up or provide an unconventional boost to a player.
How strong should a neutral creature be?
Neutrals are a nice opportunity to include units that are too strong or too weak to include in a faction, or units that have some exceptional special ability. Examples are (azure) dragons, phoenixes, peasants, fairy dragons and H5 dead knights.
Units that are not included in these categories should range between core and elite tiers, with most of them being more of the core persuasion. Wildlife, bandits and the like are after all not elite material. Of course magical creatures like manticores, unicorns and griffins should be elites.
Should they be recruitable? And what should their price/population be.
Yes, of course. Maybe not all of them (wolves en phoenixes come to mind), but imo they'll lose part of their functionality when you cannot recruit them. But please, no building that allows you to recruit both wolves and mermaids, but give the neutrals their own dwelling!
As for price, I think it should depend on the unit strength. The weak creatures could be cheaper than your normal cores, so they provide an attractive boost in early game. The really strong, boss-like, units (such as azure dragons) should be also really expensive, as they are potential game-changers.
How many should/could there be in the game.
I would say more is probably better. However, the money invested in too many neutrals could also be used for an additional town, which would have my preference. So I guess about 10 neutrals (excluding the elementals) would be the optimal amount.
Elementals: Should we leave them out?
No. Even if they are quite boring, they are a franchise staple. Besides, what would the summon elemental(s) spell(s) do if there are no elementals?!
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Can you make a faction including these units?
Join the Finding Harmony competition 2.0!
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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted February 06, 2015 04:38 PM |
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Steyn said:
Elementals: Should we leave them out?
No. Even if they are quite boring, they are a franchise staple. Besides, what would the summon elemental(s) spell(s) do if there are no elementals?!
It would be quite nice if elementals only appeared when you summon them with that magic, but not appear elsewhere in the game.
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Sleeping_Sun
Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
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posted February 06, 2015 04:43 PM |
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Nocturnal said:
Steyn said:
Elementals: Should we leave them out?
No. Even if they are quite boring, they are a franchise staple. Besides, what would the summon elemental(s) spell(s) do if there are no elementals?!
It would be quite nice if elementals only appeared when you summon them with that magic, but not appear elsewhere in the game.
Hence you need to have their models, and that is why they were always neutral creatures (Conflux excluded) as well.
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"The age can be wicked to those who walk alone. When I look into the Mirror, I see myself as I might become..." -Freya
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted February 06, 2015 04:47 PM |
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Here's my take on Neutrals:
How important are they:
Not enough  . But it all depends on map you are playing. Imo there should be more emphasis on neutrals as a replacer for one of your standard creature slots. Atleast at begining of game. I like those maps where you can make use of some neutral dwelling somehow. Be it early game to achive fast clear speeds, or rush attacks, or mid-game with some bronze dragons and such. Secondly it depends on neutrals. I belive their abilities can make them a viable tactical choice, like for instance Nomads in H3, when fighting on sand maps etc. So in short. To me they are important, and are cool, if utilized properly. I would indeed miss them if they weren't in game. So 1.) they should be in game, 2.) they should have cool situational abilities/combo abilities, 3.) they should be utilized by map makers, so they are usefull.
What is their role:
Well. Their role is imo to add something extra spice to games, and make them more unpredictable. Their role imo should be to give a player alternative aproach on how to deal with situation. Imo the worst kind of neutrals are the ones you will not use (ill get to that), so they must be usefull. That mean certain abilities (bonus movement/damage in certain terrain type(s), or against certain creature). It's important that those abilities aren't accesed by your normal troops, otherwise there's not much point. So in short (again), their role is to make game more interasting, and add new tactical options to player.
Should they be recruitable? and prize/population...and strenght of them.
Yes, they should be. Otherwise it's waste of having them. If they only apear in campaign or scenarios, then I would personaly be dissapointed. Also if only way to get them is to make them join you ... then they aren't realy usefull. If they are only tresure guardians, then why bother at all. To have extra 5-6 creatures guarding the loot? We'll get 6 factions and 8 creatures, which totals 48 possible guardians. Why bother to develop extra 5 or even 10? That wouldn't add much. Specialy coz main atention is to defeat oponent. Guardians are there just to be minor inconveniance. You would usualy breeze through these fights. Yes one of reasons to have them is also to have more diverse map guardians, but that's not main reason at all. And besides. For developers it wouldn't be much stress to add dwellings in game - afterall all hard work has been done. Let's not waste it.
For prize/population .... it depends on their strenght. I belive it should be in line with your regular core/elite/champion creatures. I would even boost their population, and maybe increase their price, as their growth rate is usualy slower than your regular army. But maybe not. That's hard subject, and can not have easy answer, witouth playtesting and other units to compare them to. Also keep in mind, that growth can simply be compensated by map-makers, by including more dwellings of same type in map. And franky, that's what should happen, since otherwise you are in situation where you have choice between, for eg. 10 core neutrals, or 30 of another core of your regular army ... Even if they're slightly stronger, again, if they are not usefull, they have no purpose. Their strenght should obviously be in line with other troops of similar tier. Neutrals should be found on all three tiers of strenght. This is important.
How many could be in game
I don't know. I don't make'em, I just play'em . I belive the more the better at this point. But not so much to hamper the development of other aspects of game.
Should we leave elementals out?
I have another question. Why? Would this leave more room for other potnetial neutral creatures ... well no, since there is a spell, that can conjure them, so they will most likely be in game anyway. Plus I have nothing against them. They would be nice to recruit them into Necro army for instance, since no morale penalty. But make them usefull. Otherwise spell is useless aswell.
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supertommy
Known Hero
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posted February 06, 2015 05:04 PM |
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Dave_Jame said:
- Elementals: Should we leave them out?
No, but I'd rather see more uncommon elementals like Magic Elementals.
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted February 06, 2015 05:11 PM |
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I'm afraid in Ashan those are called Djinn
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Can you make a faction including these units?
Join the Finding Harmony competition 2.0!
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted February 06, 2015 05:15 PM |
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- How important are neutrals for the game?
They bring flavor, so I think they are important. But I'd rather have a new faction than 8 new neutrals.
- What is the role of a neutral creature?
To bring flavor, feels like the world is big and full of possibilities, creatures and mysteries. Also what Zombi_Wizard said it would be awesome to have them mixed in your army. at early stages of the game you could use some Boars as cannon fodder, so your real army takes no losses, for example.
- How strong should a neutral creature be?
They can be of any strength because using growth as a balancing factor works pretty well.
- Should they be recruitable? And what should their price/population be.
Yes they should, but not if they have an ability to "halve the stack you attack" or anything similarly overpowered. Actually I'd rather they do not incorporate that ability ever again, that is so dumb.
- How many should/could there be in the game.
Silly question  A hundred at least! But as we know models cost there can only be so many, I'd settle for 10-15
- Elementals: Should we leave them out?
I don't see why, I'm not yet bored with them. And Summon Elementals is such a classic spell. But that said I wouldn't cry about it if they come up with something new. Light and Dark elementals are lame to me, maybe I just hate dem Glories too much...
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Sleeping_Sun
Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
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posted February 06, 2015 06:08 PM |
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How important are neutrals for the game?
I believe that they are very important.
1) They provide the game with various different and fresh units. Remember Enchanter in H3? He is one of the best units in the game and everyone can use him as long as his dwelling is placed on the map. He is useful to every town/player.
2) They are also a cheap way to assemble your army at the beginning of the game. No need to pay for the dwelling, just buy the units and off you to you adventures. Though, this depends on the starting gold of the player (30k, 20k 10k 0k), and the placement of their dwelling.
3) Since they are additional army you can combine them with the creatures from your own town. If you have more creatures available to you, you can level up 2 heroes at the same time. But again, this depends on the map and resources and the skill of the player.
4) As it was the case with H3 Enchanter they can influence the tide of the battle - when he casts Haste, Prayer, etc. They make games easier (if you have one), or difficult (if enemy has one).
5) They are also there to remind us that there are more than 9 6 factions out there. There are different cultures and civilization, as well as different and new mythical creatures as well - sea elves, free cities, shantiri civilization; introduction of new mythical creatures is always good (as they did with Simurgh, although the creature is a part of Academy). Variation is always good to keep the game interesting.
6) Now that I mentioned variation, there are two ways to categorize neutral creatures: Those who do not belong to any faction and those who do belong to a faction, but cannot be bought. Both should be present it adds to diversity and provide new strategies to choose from. In H4 Evil Eyes were neutral but aligned with Chaos, while Leprechauns and Satyrs were also beneficial to have in army. However, there is another way to categorize neutral creatures: Those who have special abilities and those who do not have them. H2 Ghosts, H3 enchanter, H4 Evil Eyes, H5 Phoenix - they all possess useful abilities which makes them very useful to have. However, there is also nothing wrong with having neutrals without special abilities who are much stronger than usual (H3 Crystal dragon).
7) They can act as bosses in a way. To me Azure dragon was something like that.
What is the role of a neutral creature?
1) This depends on the type of the creature. H3 Enchanter is support caster and range attacker. H3 Crystal dragon is brute force to be reckoned with. One one hand, they can be a part of your main army IF you have a dwelling that you can defend and keep under your control. IF not then they are just expendables which are there to preserve the army/creatures from your town. But you can also preserve them in your town as a reserve just in case, if someone approaches your town before your hero can come to defend it. EDIT: also remember pirates from H4 they provided some benefits while battling on the sea/ship. Their passive abilities could provide additional benefit for one side to win.
2) If there are altar of sacrifice, you may wish to sacrifice them and gain some experience, useful if you are low level. Or you could sold them in slave market for resources, I think you could do that in H3 Stronghold, I must check this.
How strong should a neutral creature be?
1) As in previous games, there should be both weaker units so that you can recruit them at the beginning of the game, but also strong ones so that they are useful late game when you recruit them. In other words: Core, Elite, Champion and one more higher level. (I miss Azure dragon)
2) Strength should not be measured only in hp, damage, etc., but what that creature is capable with the abilities that it possess. I already mentioned H3 Enchanter, who was relatively frail, but then again strong because of his abilities.
Should they be recruitable? And what should their price/population be?
Definitely, but with the dwellings completely ruined in H6 I don't see this happening. Maybe they can provide separate dwellings for neutrals, if not for the town-inhabiting creatures. Price would be determined according to their level, stats and abilities. As for the population...  Well, I have an idea: In H3 you could buy creatures which were similar to the fort-level creature growth. It would be good idea if one could upgrade the neutral dwelling growth to the Citadel-level and later Castle-level so that they can be more viable and worthy in late game. Then, they could also be used with your main army. Imagine that Enchanter is available in H7, you upgrade the dwelling and use it instead of weak Gargoyle or slow Golem. Or even add a Crystal dragon to any army in H7. Would it not be great? Mixing armies would be more viable than it is now.
How many should/could there be in the game?
The more the merrier? One can not have enough of new and different neutral creatures. Around 15-20 in vanilla. Adding 6-10 with new expansion. I know that this is not possible, but one can dream...
Elementals: Should we leave them out?
No. I personally love Conflux too much and I would love to have an elemental faction again someday. I do not care if they are preserved as they are, or if they are changed or altered slightly, which was proposed by Rakshasa92: Fire elemental to Ifret, Air to Sylph, etc. It would be good if they can add psychic and magic elementals to fire, water, air, earth, light, dark and primordial. Since we have Void as a concept, should we have void elementals as well? Or is it too Wow-ish for Heroes? 
I already expressed a desire for Psychic and Magic elementals, but I would like to add: Azure Dragon, Serpent Fly, Thunderbird... What ever they add, they cannot go wrong with mythological creatures. Cabir and Simurgh were implemented very well.
Sorry if I went off topic somewhere in this too long a post... 
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"The age can be wicked to those who walk alone. When I look into the Mirror, I see myself as I might become..." -Freya
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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted February 06, 2015 11:38 PM |
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Sleeping_Sun said:
Nocturnal said:
Steyn said:
Elementals: Should we leave them out?
No. Even if they are quite boring, they are a franchise staple. Besides, what would the summon elemental(s) spell(s) do if there are no elementals?!
It would be quite nice if elementals only appeared when you summon them with that magic, but not appear elsewhere in the game.
Hence you need to have their models, and that is why they were always neutral creatures (Conflux excluded) as well.
And what I'm saying is have their models, but not have them as neutrals on the adventure map but creatures that only appear with the spell.
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted February 06, 2015 11:39 PM |
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Nocturnal said:
And what I'm saying is have their models, but not have them as neutrals on the adventure map but creatures that only appear with the spell.
That actually sounds like a big waste.. IMHO
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Sleeping_Sun
Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
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posted February 07, 2015 12:09 AM |
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Nocturnal said:
And what I'm saying is have their models, but not have them as neutrals on the adventure map but creatures that only appear with the spell.
Well, their only option IS to be neutral since they do not belong to any faction (Conflux and H6 towns excluded). Even as summoned creatures you need to place/categorize them somewhere. Are they boss creatures? No. Neutrality is their only option. Even in H4 creatures that could be summoned were either faction or neutral units.
@Dave_Jame
So, what is your opinion on this matter.
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Greenlore
Known Hero
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posted February 07, 2015 12:13 AM |
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Overall I think neutrals should be recruitable/summonable,otherwise they are kind of a waste of space.
Strenghtwise they can fall basically eveywhere,since they are not tied to a town,they can exist outside of the regular strenght of their tier.
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted February 07, 2015 12:54 AM |
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Well my opinion is rather influenced by heroes, the last game I felt used the rather well
To answer my own questions
- How important are neutrals for the game?
As important as diversity gets ;-)
- What is the role of a neutral creature?
To provide more option and act as alternatives, "bosses" or expand the world
- How strong should a neutral creature be?
A large spectrum covering Core-Elite-Champion units from weaker units to interesting ones to the kinds of Ghost(H2) Ginie (H1-H2) Enchanter (H3) Azura dragon
- Should they be recruitable? And what should their price/population be.
Most of them should be aquariable. Some can be recruited, some can be summonable.
- How many should/could there be in the game.
I would love to see 10+elementals,
- Elementals: Should we leave them out?
But at the same time I would not miss them.
This said, I must tell you, that the reason I made this topic was to discuss how to approach them. Many people here see them as potential alternatives to the units we have, but sadly since H2 i don't have the feeling the games give them an opportunity to do so.
Apart from some "godlike" creatures (read Dragons in H3, Ghosts in H2) there were rarely creatures that had the means of get into the players army.
In my eyes the culprit of this is H3. This game has done so many things righ but it treated neutrals in such a way, That they were reduced to unusual sprites to fight.
This was caused by two simple things.
1: Units in neutral dwellings didn't stack. This ment, that even if you found a dwelling of a neutral creature it only had the population of one weak, and therefore was not interesting for the player. Even his smallest stack usually had more units in it.
2: the neutral dwellings growth was based on the basic growth of that tier. So even if a player choose to take a neutral unit, it any unit in his town would soon outnumber it, thanks to town boost. So the unit needed multiple dwellings the stay an option
Some games later improved on this, H4 introduced a caravan system, that in later games could be used to gather units from outside dwellings. And H6 brought back feature of stacking weakly populations. But apart of some dedicated maps, the units were rarely an option.
So my main question on you all is, how to make neutrals a valid option during the entire game?
Some units have interesting abilities that make them stand out. Like the Enchanter, which i really like that was mentioned, or even the Mermaids from H6? which in the hands of a player had huge potential.
My initial idea was to promote, apart from population stacking, that neutral units should have enhanced population growth, as one of their main problem is that they can't keep up with town populations, and loose relevance rather fast if there are not multiple dwellings in one are. For example a population of 1,5 times the tiers base should be enough.
But reading your responses I really like Sleeping Sun's idea of an option to upgrade their dwellings.
Apart from their population, we need interesting units such as the enchanter and mermaid. But also, with the rise of faction abilities, we need neutral units that can use them. We had neutral undead, or the mermaid had abilities of the sanctuary creatures. But I think we need more, neutral orcs, demons, constructs as we had in H3.
To some this long post up, Neutrals should be the spice on a well made game
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Sleeping_Sun
Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
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posted February 07, 2015 01:38 AM |
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I agree with you that neutrals need to be spiced up a bit. We either need neutrals in large number, or those which are physically powerful or they have a special ability.
Regarding my idea about upgrading dwelling (I'm glad you like it ) I have a new proposal:
1) As I said, beside having dwellings for faction creatures, we should have dwellings for neutrals as well, which can be upgraded to produce from fort-level population to eventually castle-level.
2) But! since the individual dwellings were abandoned in H6 (if I am wrong here correct me) we should maybe have mercenary camps (like in H3) which would provide either:
a) 3 core-level neutral creatures,
b) 3 elite-level neutral creatures or
c) 2 champion-level neutral creatures.
The 2 or 3 creatures would be randomly put together (or they could be grouped by a common theme if it exists). Example: For the sake of the argument let's pretend that all the following creatures are elite-level. Thematically, we could group Water elemental, Sea/Pirate elf and Mermaid. Similar to golem factory (where one could buy 4 types of golems) in H3. Like in my previous idea (1), we could upgrade these camps to increase their population growth. Of course it would cost a lot, but it could be viable late game. Though, it might provide a strain on player economy.
3) Return the creature portal from H3 and H4 but as a neutral building:
a) One version would be to have the portal aligned with a town and to benefit from its Fort/Citadel/Castle level, but in that portal you could have only 1 creature to hire.
b) Another version of it would be like in H4. You can buy a certain amount of creatures that you can buy. You will either buy all Mermaids, or if the cap is 15 creatures, the possible combination would be 5 Mermaids, 5 Water elementals and 5 Sea elves, or some other combination...
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 07, 2015 11:22 AM |
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- How important are neutrals for the game?
Very. This game needs variety and the lack of neutrals in H6 showed. I don't want to face faction units all the time, the game needs more variety. Also mapmakers need them to create unique scenarios or mix and match units for more interesting scenarios.
- What is the role of a neutral creature?
Equal parts combat diversity and mapmaking needs.
- How strong should a neutral creature be?
Could be anything. But I dislike extremes like 1hp peasants, they should be useful, each in its own way.
- Should they be recruitable? And what should their price/population be.
YES. Population should be comparable to town levels though, so that you can possibly exchange them with a native stack. Otherwise they are there for earlygame or for show. Prices should of course depend on the creature's usefulness.
- How many should/could there be in the game.
I cannot pin down a specific number but.. more than H5 and H6 had. More importantly they should be diverse and offer what the faction units cannot. I don't want them to exist just because, they should bring something interesting in the game.
- Elementals: Should we leave them out?
Don't care, they are overused anyway. Some creativity wouldn't hurt.
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted February 07, 2015 02:06 PM |
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- How important are neutrals for the game?
Very.
- What is the role of a neutral creature?
Variety to the gameplay. Creatures that no faction is able to produce in their towns is a must to have. They are foreign to every faction, you just come across them on the adventure map or not which leads to them being seen as somewhat mysterious. But H6 really overdid it. Elementals were everywhere. Marmaids were on every coast.
- How strong should a neutral creature be?
Depends on the creature. And depends on if we will be able to hire them or not. If we won't be able to hire them, they should be stronger than the average of their tier class. i.e.: If we won't be able to hire neutrals, considering Griffins are elite, their stats should be stronger than avarage elite class stats as no hero will be able to add up to those stats with his/her own. If we are going to hire them, their stats should remain according to its tier. But I personally do not want core neutrals, seeing neutrals are rare and cool, it kills the excitement of facing them if they die like flies (as cores won't be as strong as they were in H6)
- Should they be recruitable? And what should their price/population be.
They should be recruitable but not through some building on the adventure map. Just saying ok to a stack's will to join you is also not enough, cause as they won't grow, you will eventually drop them.
I think a reasonable solution could be this: when a neutral creature stack wants to join you and you say OK, a window pops up telling you you can grow them in your town if you want but only to irreversably destroy one of your creatures' building for that neutral creature's building. The same building will be replaced in every town you own.
- How many should/could there be in the game.
Considering elementals will be 6 in number again, 16.
- Elementals: Should we leave them out?
Personally I'd want them to appear just through the Summon Elemental spell. But that doesn't seem likely. I also don't want 6 of them again, but that also seems unlikely.
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moonshade
Known Hero
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posted February 07, 2015 02:55 PM |
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My idea for neutrals
I'd keep Neutrals in, with the ideal of having 25 or so. To encourage their deployment, I'd give each hero 8 creature stacks. I'll like to see them divided into 3 main groups:
1. Faction-affiliated neutrals: These should include neutrals affiliated to a specific faction, and recruitable through special abilities / buildings or in campaigns. Examples inlcude Griffins for Haven and Zombies for Necropolis. Regarding Zombies- I'd make Basic Necromancy raise Zombies, with more advanced levels being able to raise Necropolis Core and Elite creatures. Zombies should be weak and fodder-like, but can reach huge numbers and every unit they kill becomes a Zombie (like the Ghost ability- but they're possibly the weakest unit in the game). Other examples for such creatures: Faceless for Dungeon (as Champions!), Dervishes for Academy and Unicorns for Sylvan. 6 creatures, 1 for each faction. Each should also get them in a unique, faction-specific way.
2. Mini-factions: A set of 3 neutrals representing the missing factions. I'd add Inferno (Succubus/Incubus, Hellworm, Pitlord) and either Fortress (Defender, Battle Boar, Fire Giant) or Sanctuary (Kappa, Kensai, Kirin). 6 creatures, or 3 if we just add the Inferno mini-faction.
3. True neutrals- stuff like Sea Elves, Brigands, Blind Brothers, Phoenix (though IMHO they should just replace the Academy's Arcane Eagles) and Boss creatures like Rust and Azure Dragons. The 6 Elementals also belong in this group. About 12-15 creatures (excluding Bosses).
Opinions? I know the cheap-cheap Ubisoft would never implement it and we should be thankful if we just get Elementals + a few more, but one can always hope and suggest for the best.
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