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| Thread: Talk about Neutrals |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Sleeping_Sun
Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
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posted February 10, 2015 04:25 PM |
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Dave_Jame said:
- Make their dwellings upgradeable (praise the Sleeping sun for the idea  )
No problem.  
Well there are few other ways to boost the growth of the neutrals.
1) Upgradable dwellings/Mercenary Camp/Neutral Fort
2) Summoning portals in synchronization with the town in area control
I have explained these on the first page.
3) Skill based boost:
a) A sub-skill of Diplomacy would affect only the neutrals in the hero's army. Neutral units would be summoned at the beginning of the each week. Essentially Summoning skill from H4 but altered. For example, if a player has a group of Archers and Nomads, Nomads would increase for a certain number. There would be a greater boost to core, medium to elite and small boost to champion neutrals. Maybe it could even work like avenger skill in H5. The player could specialize in a single neutral creature to summon it every week. That creature would appear in greater numbers. Or maybe there is no need for specialization, but then all neutral creatures would be increased but the boost wouldn't be so big for every individual creature. Thus one creature bigger boost vs many creatures lesser boost.
b) A sub-skill of Recruitment would affect only the neutral dwelling/camps/forts. It would increase the creature growth for a certain number. Again core creatures would have the biggest growth, elite would have medium, and champion would get a small boost in their growth. That way the player would definitely use neutral creatures more if he/she could amass them quicker than the creatures from his/her own town.
4) Artifact based boost:
a) Artifacts increasing creature growth of towns and/or dwellings similar to the Statue of Legion from the H3.
b) Artifacts summoning a specific creature in the hero's army. For example, a Genie/Djinn Lamp artifact would summon Genies/Djinns into hero's army every week.
@Dave
There is maybe no need for the upgrades of neutrals. However, I agree with you that they should be the strongest or at least slightly/greatly stronger than the core, elite and champion creatures of the existing factions, hence a bit more expensive. As we said on the previous page, either stronger in stats, or stronger/better abilities. That way the player would be tempted to acquire and use them more often to increase his own strength.
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moonshade
Known Hero
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posted February 10, 2015 04:29 PM |
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About the 4 "classic" Elementals
I've once posted an idea for a revised Elemental Conflux, including said mythological Elementals (Gnome/Sylph/Undine/Salamander) in its line-up and IMHO actually creating an interesting faction (Core: Ascetic/Gnome/Undine, Elite: Salamander/Sylph/Maelstorm, Champion: Phoenix/Crystal Dragon). However, in Ashan a united Elemental Conflux would never work, with all the religious/elemental Dragon crap.
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Sleeping_Sun
Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
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posted February 10, 2015 04:38 PM |
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moonshade said:
I've once posted an idea for a revised Elemental Conflux, including said mythological Elementals (Gnome/Sylph/Undine/Salamander) in its line-up and IMHO actually creating an interesting faction (Core: Ascetic/Gnome/Undine, Elite: Salamander/Sylph/Maelstorm, Champion: Phoenix/Crystal Dragon). However, in Ashan a united Elemental Conflux would never work, with all the religious/elemental Dragon crap.
Actually, I think it can work. But then H3 Conflux would become the New Shantiri Civilization of Ashan.
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted February 10, 2015 04:47 PM |
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Why wouldn't it? I think a dragon knight faction would be a good contender for the position of united elements faction. Because the followers of the dragon gods cannot live with each other does not mean the element(al)s cannot be together in a faction.
Rakshasa92 said:
YOu probably never heard about Gnome, Salamander, Undine and SYlphs, but THOSE are elementals.
They have cool names and not just *fill in any elemental*+ elemental.
I think in Ashan those would be elemental spirits, like the Kappa, Cabir and Troglodytes. Actually the name element + elemental makes sense. An elemental is an element come to live. Just like with polar bear, brown bear, black bear, cave bear, etc, the elementals are described using their distinctive feature followed by the name of the species. For the elementals this distinctive feature happens to be their element.
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Can you make a faction including these units?
Join the Finding Harmony competition 2.0!
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Rakshasa92
Supreme Hero
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posted February 10, 2015 08:32 PM |
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Avirosb said:
Gnomes aren't particularly intimidating tho
Delete the D&D-like gnomes please, they will be very intimidating if they control the very earth beneath their feet and turn it into giant earth serpents, golems and waves and hands.
Call them Kobolds to make them sound more nasty.
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted February 10, 2015 08:43 PM |
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I (partially) agree with Rakshasa. I would really love to see Elementals in shape of some beasts that are associated with their respective element instead of humanoids. I have nothing against them but some change would be very pleasant to see.
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted February 10, 2015 09:05 PM |
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Can you please, please drop the elemental topic. Or create a topic for it alowen. I created this topic to discuss what would be the best way to approach neutals, not to make it another dolldress/name topic.
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I'm just a Mirror of your self.
We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.
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Rakshasa92
Supreme Hero
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posted February 10, 2015 10:24 PM |
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Dave_Jame said:
Can you please, please drop the elemental topic. Or create a topic for it alowen. I created this topic to discuss what would be the best way to approach neutals, not to make it another dolldress/name topic.
LOl, it was one of your own questions, then delete that question from your list.
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted February 10, 2015 10:28 PM |
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Rakshasa92 said:
Dave_Jame said:
Can you please, please drop the elemental topic. Or create a topic for it alowen. I created this topic to discuss what would be the best way to approach neutals, not to make it another dolldress/name topic.
LOl, it was one of your own questions, then delete that question from your list.
My question was how important they are, not what should they be called or how they should look.
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ShadowMaster
Adventuring Hero
HOMM3fa(g)n
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posted February 14, 2015 08:56 PM |
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Here are a few ideas I have for neutrals:
First, return the old stuff. F.E-Halflings. They were with us from HoMM 2 to 4, to then disappear. I know, they were weak, they were ridiculous and they didn't actually have any meaning for the plot, but still, for old times sake.
Second, keep the Elementals. They were with us from 1 and as such are a basic point of series that should be kept, no matter what.
Third, give them the ability to upgrade.
Fourth, give them story-line importance. Like they did with the Nomads and the Peasants in Heroes Chronicles.
Fifth, return Heroes with the ability to upgrade regular creatures to neutrals. Like Gelu in HoMM 3 and Tarnum in Heroes Chronicles.
And last-make a lot of them. Not 3, not 4 , but 10 or something.They are plenty of awesome units in DoC that will never make to the game and so can be inserted in form of neutrals.
That's about it. And also-a list of Neutrals that I would like to see in HoMM 7 (or later) Each one of them has a alternate upgrade.
Similar to tier one-
1)Halfling(See-LotR);Halfling thief (Similar in appearance to Halfling, but with a cape that covers the face and a small knife of sorts) OR Halfling warrior (Cape, open face, long sword and shield. Hate for Goblins and Orcs).
2)Peasant (a sick looking man in old torn tunic, see HoMM 3 and HoMM 5;Peasant recruit (Wearing armor, but armor is way too big, rusty sword) OR Peasant rebel (Similar to Peasant but with better tunic in red and a halberd ).
3)Gnoll( Jackal man in a loin-cloth holding a African tribal shield in one hand and mace in other);Gnoll leader (Similar, but with tribal tattoos, a Jaguar cloak and a Macuahuitl (look it up).No shield. OR Gnoll Marauder (peasant clothes in white color and a gun-esque weapon that is held in both hands)(in case if not inserted in Stronghold).
4)Gremlin (Look HoMM 5);Gremlin swordsmaster( wearing a chainmail. In one hand a bag of tools and a hammer in the other. Can repair constructs)OR Gremlin slaveholder (Gremlin in Calvin Candie outfit white loincloth, holding a whip)
Tier 2-
1)Jack-of-all trades(a young man similar in appearance to Peasant,but more fit and with cleaner clothes. Knife in hand.); Rogue( Black cloak with orange tunic beneath, holding knife.) OR Gentleman Thief ( Resembles Arsene Lupin , so stereotypical "Gentelman" outfit and cane that shoots .)
2)Mummy(an zombie in white bandages with flesh revealed here and there.);Mummy King ( No bandages, zombie face, Tutankhamun crown, long open cape) OR Scorpion Man ( Muscular naked man, with lower body being of a Scorpion.)
3) Nomad( See HoMM 3, only on Camel instead of horse.); Camel Warrior (longer Scimitar(Arabian sword) and Arabic shield). OR Han( Horse instead of Camel, but similar sword and shield. Classic Mongolian clothing).
Tier 3-
1)All elementals(Wind,fire,water,earth, minerals, light and shadow). No possibility for upgrade.
2)Golem from Academy can be upgraded to Diamond Golem /Gold Golem.
3)Air serpent(Yellow Dragonfly, shooter) ; Meganeura (Giant Dragonfly, red, shooter) OR Quetzalcoatl (giant feathered snake, shooter) All 3 are flyers)
Tier 4-
Ranger(Green tunic, similar to Elves in HoMM 3 and (relatively) 5, but human instead of elven. Small bow); Sharpshooter (see HoMM 3) OR Forest child (Green Loincloth, Sharpshooter bow. Green glow around him. Water spells heal, but fire spells-double damage.)
Ghost (a beautiful woman in a white cloak with chains on her hands and feet. Flyer); Banshee (now hunchbacked, with a face twisted in pain and misery. Has scream that paralyses enemy units for one turn) OR Vila (beautiful woman, no chains, has limited range of fire and water spells. )
Tier 5-
Roc (if not in Stronghold)(giant Eagle bird, can pick up and trow enemy units); Thunderbird (golden instead of brown feathers. Can deal extra damage to enemy unit by thunder. Can trow enemy units. Has a bar that, if filled deals damage to each unit on the field)OR Garuda ( Humanoid being of blue color with giant wings and a beak. Hidden drop -by begin of battle flies away outside of screen, deals double damage when utilized. Can heal friendly units).
Gnome (small being in armor, wearing a over sized hammer. Deals double damage. Once a battle turns invincible to any kind of damage, spell "Kill all living beings" included.); Leprechaun(Small being in green costume, with a pot of gold in his hand. Casts random spell each turn.) OR Domovoi ( small being in tunic with oversized hands and feet. Teleports. Casts Hypnosis)
Tier 6
Death Worm (giant worm. Can deal extra damage to enemy units by thunder, similar to Thunderbird. Shooter.); Lambton Worm ( Dragon-esque in appearance, can deal damage to several units at once, regeneration)OR Ogopogo ( Dragon-esque, burrows underground to attack enemy unit, can summon rain on enemy units.)
Tier 7
Iron,Fairy, Azure and Crystal dragons- see HoMM 3.
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Jackson
Known Hero
Random Spirit Lover
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posted February 21, 2015 12:46 AM |
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Based on what we know so far about H7, this is how I hope neutrals will turn out:
For me, it's important that all neutrals are recruitable. They should all have adventure map dwellings and the weekly populations should stack so that recruiting them is reasonable and viable.
A healthy amount of varied neutrals does wonders in making the world feel larger and more magical. However, I think it's a huge wasted opportunity to include lots of neutrals if they aren't recruitable, as the possibility of adding neutrals to your armies adds greater variety and replayability to the game.
Furthermore, while some neutrals, such as the Sea Elves, should be entirely neutral with no faction associations whatsoever, some other neutrals should be lightly associated with particular factions. They're still neutrals, but they lightly continue the themes of the faction that they're associated with and are slightly, just slightly more accessible to said faction.
My suggestion is to start with one neutral unit being associated with each faction, with the rest of the neutrals having no associations whatsoever. The associated ones should all be of elite tier strength. These are the ones I'd like to see:
Haven: Griffins
Dungeon: Manticores
Sylvan: Unicorns (not my personal first choice but I think it would be best for the Heroes community as a whole)
Academy: Tawerets
Stronghold: Trolls (I'm making the assumption that they won't be in the Stronghold line-up)
Necropolis: Wraiths
These, plus other neutrals, such as the Sea Elves - everything being potentially recruitable by anyone! - can really open up the world.
Personally, I wouldn't miss the elementals if they didn't make an appearance in this game, but I'm okay with having them and I assume we're pretty much guaranteed to have them.
However, I'm in favor of the seven elementals being given specific identities beyond just "Fire Elemental," "Water Elemental," etc. I'd like all the elementals to be creatures from mythologies. The prime elemental should of course be the Phoenix, because that's already a part of the lore and because I want the Phoenix to be in the game (and I'm still(!) super sad about Fury winning).
In the lore, the possibility to have many different forms/types/identities of fire elementals, water elementals, etc., should always be kept open. So for example Cherufes could be a fire elemental, but fire elementals will never be limited to only Cherufes (on a side note, I'd still like to see a Cherufe as a champion in Fortress).
I'm also in favor of having some rare neutrals that are stronger than any of the factions' champions. Again, this adds variety and replayability as well as helping the world feel larger and more magical. Just please make sure neutrals are recruitable.
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Greenlore
Known Hero
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posted February 21, 2015 01:24 AM |
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I think the idea of some neutrals actually fitting into a faction is kinda cool,but then again they could have included the neutral unit into the lineup from the start and simply make it so that you only get to choose 3 out of the 4 elite units.
However if we're gonna see a system like that,then I know for sure which mystical creature I'd like to see for the necropolis line-up
Awesome mythological necro-unit
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cleglaw
Famous Hero
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posted March 31, 2015 05:39 PM |
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just a drawing of mine, not seriusly related to anything but i dont know.. what do you guys think of it?
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leiah2
Known Hero
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posted March 31, 2015 06:50 PM |
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cleglaw said:
just a drawing of mine, not seriusly related to anything but i dont know.. what do you guys think of it?
Isn't that from Arthur Spiderwicks Field Manual of Magical Creatures?
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cleglaw
Famous Hero
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posted March 31, 2015 08:47 PM |
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Edited by cleglaw at 20:49, 31 Mar 2015.
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Isn't that from Arthur Spiderwicks Field Manual of Magical Creatures?
exactly
i always find those plant-animal hybrids interesting, why not as natural?
i painted those creatures back in 2012, always wanted something like this in fantasy settings. since we are a bit bored of elementals it seems like a good idea to add.
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted March 31, 2015 08:52 PM |
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It's very interasting drawing. I wouldn't mind that as a neutral in HoMM However I'm afraid we're not gonna get it, since it would not coincide with "Erwan's vision"  . It does not resemble Warcraft enough. I do hope, that one day it would be possible. Drawing is quite nice - you have some skills man.
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted March 31, 2015 09:18 PM |
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And here I thought we have some news on neutral... 
Don't we have Altar of Wishes for this kind of things?
Btw, do we have some news on neutrals?
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Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted March 31, 2015 09:18 PM |
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I like your drawing but mind if I turn this wibe back on topic?
So from the few screenshots and the scers info we could se 4 "new" neutrals. "New" since we knew about one of them and the rest is rather gneric.
Air Elemental
Fire Elemental
Earth Elemental
Griffin
It would be nice if Galaad or Stevie could tell us somethin about some of them. For now If I remember Griffin was Core, Fire E. was a Shooter and Air E. had Strike and return?
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted March 31, 2015 09:22 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 21:29, 31 Mar 2015.
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Dave_Jame said:
It would be nice if Galaad or Stevie could tell us somethin about some of them. For now If I remember Griffin was Core, Fire E. was a Shooter and Air E. had Strike and return?
Where did anyone said griffin was core?
cleglaw said:
i painted those creatures back in 2012, always wanted something like this in fantasy settings. since we are a bit bored of elementals it seems like a good idea to add.
I would very much welcome them HERE.
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted March 31, 2015 09:27 PM |
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Galaad said:
Where did anyone said griffin was core?
The_Green_Drag mentioned it in the general discussion
Here I quote (It's on 694)
Quote:
Griffins are a core unit in his game. Really messed me up when I sent them in the middle of a fight, only to watch them die
3/4 elementals were there, the water being absent. Hopefully they get a new model. Air elementals don't shoot anymore either.
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